Topic: Randall

[tpe]

One thing I am certain of...Randall was definitely someone Jack gave serious thought to as far as a future.  I get the impression Jack may have mentioned Ennis more than once to his folks.  For Jack to suddenly change his tune and mention "this other fella" as the new person to help lick the ranch into shape, meant that Jack was at least coming to terms with Ennis maybe never committing to him.  Of course the hopeless romantic part of me still believes that time was cut short for the right outcome.  As much as I like the character of Randall, my heart will always want to believe that Randall did not stand a chance in the event Ennis ever said "Jack let's do it."

True.  I think of Randall by and large as a shadowy figure (neither sympathetic nor repulsive), but he did give Jack some element of hope before he died, even if that hope was predicated on giving up in trying to make Ennis share the dream...

[aintfoolin]

Ironically Jack had the remarkable advantage of meeting both his lovers' wives. In the case of Alma, she was privy to what was going on with Jack and her husband, and we know how she felt toward Jack because of it. Obviously saw Jack as a homewrecker. He also met LaShawn, who I think was totally oblivious to what was going on right under her nose...literally. I feel she would see Jack the same way as Alma did. LaShawn had hit upon her dream man in Randall. A man who could give her a decent life. I doubt she'd be willing to give him up easily and go back to being a sales girl in some shop. In his pursuit of happiness, Jack had to juggle all these people in secret, including Lureen and his in-laws. I cannot see him adding LaShawn to his list of lovers. She was Randall's wife and she was already too close for comfort as far as Jack was concerned and wether he was sleeping with her or not , in the end she would loose out eventually as Jack had his own plans for Randall that did'nt include her . Either way she would be left in the dust and would not be a happy camper over this.                                                                                                                                                  Would Jack risk LaShawn's wrath when she finds out she'd was only being used? I don't think so. She'd tell Lureen and everybody and anybody who'd listen. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!! Right? Jack did not need these problems.

[tpe]

Ironically Jack had the remarkable advantage of meeting both his lovers' wives. In the case of Alma, she was privy to what was going on with Jack and her husband, and we know how she felt toward Jack because of it. Obviously saw Jack as a homewrecker. He also met LaShawn, who I think was totally oblivious to what was going on right under her nose...literally. I feel she would see Jack the same way as Alma did. LaShawn had hit upon her dream man in Randall. A man who could give her a decent life. I doubt she'd be willing to give him up easily and go back to being a sales girl in some shop. In his pursuit of happiness, Jack had to juggle all these people in secret, including Lureen and his in-laws. I cannot see him adding LaShawn to his list of lovers. She was Randall's wife and she was already too close for comfort as far as Jack was concerned and wether he was sleeping with her or not , in the end she would loose out eventually as Jack had his own plans for Randall that did'nt include her . Either way she would be left in the dust and would not be a happy camper over this.                                                                                                                                                  Would Jack risk LaShawn's wrath when she finds out she'd was only being used? I don't think so. She'd tell Lureen and everybody and anybody who'd listen. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!! Right? Jack did not need these problems.

Good points here.  The question of why she would replace Randall with Jack: I suppose it depends on whether she just wanted a fling with Jack, or something not particularly seriousm but the risk of discovery would of course be a deterrent. 

The advantage of Jack and Randall is that Lureen was too preoccupied to really care, and LaShawn was too talkative to figure things out.  Still, I do wonder whether LaShawn was really way of of it to have noticed anything in the long run.

[aintfoolin]

But if Jack had carried through on his planned to take Randall to LF with him, LaShawn would find out eventually right? Divorce settlements etc, So would Lureen, Who knows what these two women could come up with if they found out what their husbands were up to behind their backs. Throw Ennis into this mix and they'd have trouble with a capital T.
 There's no evidence in the movie that LaShawn was unhappy with Randall, the complete opposite of Jack and Lureen. Apparently they had'nt been married long in my estimation, so I think LaShawn was still fairly satisfied with him. Randall on the other hand had secrets that his wife was unaware of....to Jack and Randall's advantage.

[tpe]

But if Jack had carried through on his planned to take Randall to LF with him, LaShawn would find out eventually right? Divorce settlements etc, So would Lureen, Who knows what these two women could come up with if they found out what their husbands were up to behind their backs. Throw Ennis into this mix and they'd have trouble with a capital T.
 There's no evidence in the movie that LaShawn was unhappy with Randall, the complete opposite of Jack and Lureen. Apparently they had'nt been married long in my estimation, so I think LaShawn was still fairly satisfied with him. Randall on the other hand had secrets that his wife was unaware of....to Jack and Randall's advantage.

Yes, she would know, and it would have come from out of the blue, no?  After the initial shock, would she have had the will or the way to know what happened I wonder.  I don't think Randall would tell her the truth, and perhaps Randall would not even bring Jack into the picture.  But could he hide it indefinitely?

AS for Lureen, I do think that she would have become vengeful -- not out of love betrayed, but more because out of pride and saving face.  But perhaps Jack would have also hid the truth from her.  If Jack gave her some reason, she probably would not have cared so long as she saved face, no? Even if she had the ability to know the truth, I suspect that Lureen would not have cared too much...
 

 

[manhattangirl]

Lureen was totally business, LD had died, she ran the business.  She would have totally looked at it in business stand point,  how would've looked if it got out her husband, was having an affair with a man?  What would that say about her judgement, 'Well, you husband's queer and you didn't know it? "   Oh, yeah she would have quietly divorced Jack, maybe a financial settlement, "let it be".       

As far as Randall and La Shawn,  just being in the room with LaShawn for five minutes, some folks would think she drove him into the arms of a man.  Sorry, but believe that's how some people think.   

The scenarios I've come up with may not popular but you have to look at this way, back in those days and maybe even now, some sectors of society would have looked at it no other way. 

[aintfoolin]

Yes, I beleive you MG, but if Jack and Randall are neighbors and *good freinds* do you think that Lureen and LaShawn would become freindly too? as their wives?  Or not? Did'nt seem as though LaShawn endeared herself to Lureen at the table. But as Jack and Randall became closer down the road would'nt the two wives also? I don't know,  just asking but seems to me LaShawn would have to be givin a reason for a divorce through attorneys etc. and she'd seek some answers. So would Jack.Both wives have a stake in this. Lureen maybe an all business woman, yet underneath she is still a woman.  If these two put their heads together after being scorned and used like this , all f--cking hell is gonna break loose....and we've not even began to talk about Ennis yet  and where he fits in. They could'nt exactly be totally truthful about it imo. How could Randall possibly explain wanting to leave LaShawn and move to LF without raising even Lureen's suspicions? It's a tangled web they weave imho.

[manhattangirl]

Yes, I believe you MG, but if Jack and Randall are neighbors and *good freinds* do you think that Lureen and LaShawn would become freindly too? as their wives?  Or not? Did'nt seem as though LaShawn endeared herself to Lureen at the table. But as Jack and Randall became closer down the road would'nt the two wives also? I don't know,  just asking but seems to me LaShawn would have to be givin a reason for a divorce through attorneys etc. and she'd seek some answers. So would Jack.Both wives have a stake in this. Lureen maybe an all business woman, yet underneath she is still a woman.  If these two put their heads together after being scorned and used like this , all f--cking hell is gonna break loose....and we've not even began to talk about Ennis yet  and where he fits in. They could'nt exactly be totally truthful about it imo. How could Randall possibly explain wanting to leave LaShawn and move to LF without raising even Lureen's suspicions? It's a tangled web they weave imho.

You bring up some great points.   I thought Lureen looked down on LaShawn, Lureen is a snob.  LaShawn wasn't in the right sorority, and she is just a Ranch Foreman's wife.   You talk about social levels, she might rank way beneath Lureen, after all Lureen runs a business, runs in different circles.

Where as Randall and Ennis considers themselves more peers than the wives would.  Lets remember Jack is just a saleman and not  considered at the same level as Lureen, he's just "the pissant who used to ride the bulls." 

The Ennis situation would come much later, after the smoke clears.  And that would totally be a Jack and Ennis problem.  IMO

[tpe]

Yes, I beleive you MG, but if Jack and Randall are neighbors and *good freinds* do you think that Lureen and LaShawn would become freindly too? as their wives?  Or not? Did'nt seem as though LaShawn endeared herself to Lureen at the table. But as Jack and Randall became closer down the road would'nt the two wives also? I don't know,  just asking but seems to me LaShawn would have to be givin a reason for a divorce through attorneys etc. and she'd seek some answers. So would Jack.Both wives have a stake in this. Lureen maybe an all business woman, yet underneath she is still a woman.  If these two put their heads together after being scorned and used like this , all f--cking hell is gonna break loose....and we've not even began to talk about Ennis yet  and where he fits in. They could'nt exactly be totally truthful about it imo. How could Randall possibly explain wanting to leave LaShawn and move to LF without raising even Lureen's suspicions? It's a tangled web they weave imho.

I also suspected that Lureen had no great liking for LaShawn.  Lureen probably resented her putting all the attention to herself -- given her incessant talking.  And her feelings towards Randall must have not been that good either, considering that he was not gallant enough tro ask HER to dance when Jack offered to do this with LaShawn.

If there was any connection made with LaShawn and Randall on that night, it would have been with Jack, I suppose.

[welshwitch]

Lureen was sussing LaShawn out and was suspicious of her. (She's a woman and that's what they do!) She pigeon-holes her as having somehow got into the "right" university but the "wrong" sorority, then marrying the "wrong" man. She's probably wearing the "wrong" dress too, but I don't know enough about 1970s Texan female fashions to say. She talks too much and says the wrong sort of things. By the time Jack dances with her, Lureen has decided what she thinks of her. LaShawn is evidently trying to impress Lureen and failing; then she tries to butter Jack up, presumablu without realising that she's wasting her time.

In Childress terms, Lureen is much further up the social scale than LaShawn - if Jack has status it's only as her husband, married to local money. As he's a man and so is Randall, I doubt whether these things concern either of them as much as they do their women.

I assume that in Western terms, Ennis starts at the bottiom of the social ladder and doesn't rise much, if at all. Alma does when she marries the grocer, at least in material terms.

[manhattangirl]

Lureen was sussing LaShawn out and was suspicious of her. (She's a woman and that's what they do!) She pigeon-holes her as having somehow got into the "right" university but the "wrong" sorority, then marrying the "wrong" man. She's probably wearing the "wrong" dress too, but I don't know enough about 1970s Texan female fashions to say. She talks too much and says the wrong sort of things. By the time Jack dances with her, Lureen has decided what she thinks of her. LaShawn is evidently trying to impress Lureen and failing; then she tries to butter Jack up, presumablu without realising that she's wasting her time.

In Childress terms, Lureen is much further up the social scale than LaShawn - if Jack has status it's only as her husband, married to local money. As he's a man and so is Randall, I doubt whether these things concern either of them as much as they do their women.

I assume that in Western terms, Ennis starts at the bottiom of the social ladder and doesn't rise much, if at all. Alms does when she marries the grocer, at least in material terms.

You are so right ww,

As far as Ennis and  Alma is concern they wouldn't even make the scale, they would be one of many nameless town folks.   The only person Alam might indirectly know Lureen is throught her housekeeper who did the shopping at the store Alma worked at. 

[tpe]

Lureen was sussing LaShawn out and was suspicious of her. (She's a woman and that's what they do!) She pigeon-holes her as having somehow got into the "right" university but the "wrong" sorority, then marrying the "wrong" man. She's probably wearing the "wrong" dress too, but I don't know enough about 1970s Texan female fashions to say. She talks too much and says the wrong sort of things. By the time Jack dances with her, Lureen has decided what she thinks of her. LaShawn is evidently trying to impress Lureen and failing; then she tries to butter Jack up, presumablu without realising that she's wasting her time.

In Childress terms, Lureen is much further up the social scale than LaShawn - if Jack has status it's only as her husband, married to local money. As he's a man and so is Randall, I doubt whether these things concern either of them as much as they do their women.

I assume that in Western terms, Ennis starts at the bottiom of the social ladder and doesn't rise much, if at all. Alma does when she marries the grocer, at least in material terms.

I did love that rather pointed response from Lureen, pretty much saying that she was equal, if not better than LaShawn.

Perhaps the comparison between Randall and Jack would have been a sore point for Lureen.  After all, Randall seemed to have been more accomplished than Jack, although it seemed that Randall was not particularly handy (given that he had to be helped by Jack and Lureen on the way to the event.)

In any event, Lureen seemed anxious to show that they were better than Randall and LaShawn.  An insecurity borned out of their cold marriage, perhaps?

[welshwitch]

I also thought all the university talk was another example of excluding Jack. Lureen and LaShawn were in the same club as Randall and Jack wasn't a member. And isn't that why Randall is depicted as unable to fix his broken-down truck? I thought that and LaShawn's comments about it were indicative of his being one of the new generation, educated but not possessed of practical skills - he's such a contrast with Ennis in this way as well as others. But he's a straw in the wind - as in the ss Jack saying that rodeo is being professionalized by a new generation of athletes is another.

[aintfoolin]

I agree WW, Lureen , LaShawn ,And Randall are among those who always follow the latest  passing trend or new fads it seems . In  my high school,  they were referred to as *preppies or *snobs.  Jack tends to stick to the classics.  He is basic, It is evident through out the film, his style of dress and the things he treasured were deeply imbedded in his culture and upbringing. Though he shines at times there is still a humbleness about him. In this way he and Ennis are well matched, imo.
 Randall seemed to be looking for something different though, I see him as a quiet , private type, educated yes, but not spoiled like Lureen and LaShawn. His approach to Jack was tentative, gentle, and non-threatening. as opposed to brash and egotistical like some men in this position can be.
Being married to LaShawn putting herself so forward  at times at his expense can be a help or a hindrance to Randall. berating her husband to Jack  about the broken down truck and Randall's lack of as you say "pracical skills" probably contributed to Jack's sympathectic view of Randall as another *mis- matched *couple like himself and Lureen.  Their body language was telling and Jack seemed bothered by Lureen's *primping* ( was Jack finally seeing her true colors?)  How rude and shallow was she?! After all he'd dealt with broken down trucks before.... Hmmm I wonder where, ? Anyway, he understands.
  In this case her accessive talking proved a welcome distraction to what was going on right under her nose...literally.

[tpe]

I also thought all the university talk was another example of excluding Jack. Lureen and LaShawn were in the same club as Randall and Jack wasn't a member. And isn't that why Randall is depicted as unable to fix his broken-down truck? I thought that and LaShawn's comments about it were indicative of his being one of the new generation, educated but not possessed of practical skills - he's such a contrast with Ennis in this way as well as others. But he's a straw in the wind - as in the ss Jack saying that rodeo is being professionalized by a new generation of athletes is another.

I had not considered this WW, although it must have been at the back of my mind, for when I read this, it made sense.

Randall was of course siilent the whole time.  He was apparently too busy studying Jack.

 

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

Randall was of course siilent the whole time.  He was apparently too busy studying Jack.

Being the strong silent type - he was more of a doer than a talker, but the look of things.

[tpe]

Being the strong silent type - he was more of a doer than a talker, but the look of things.

It certainly gave him a distinct advantage, as far as having a wife like LaShawn.   He didn't have to engage her, and could therefore go ahead without being under a cloud of suspicion.

[manhattangirl]

Randall not only didn't have to engage La Shawn, and no one else, all he had to do was sit back, concentrate on Jack, which I thought, unsettled Jack.  Randall glances were getting to Jack.   

Someone was seeking him out.  This was not Mexico,  no money on the barrel head,  Randall was closing in and Jack sensed danger, and so what do you do, ask La Shawn for a dance, get the hell out of there. 

Jack wasn't afraid of Randall, but  afraid of himself, and Ennis wasn't there.

[tpe]

Randall not only didn't have to engage La Shawn, and no one else, all he had to do was sit back, concentrate on Jack, which I thought, unsettled Jack.  Randall glances were getting to Jack.   

Someone was seeking him out.  This was not Mexico,  no money on the barrel head,  Randall was closing in and Jack sensed danger, and so what do you do, ask La Shawn for a dance, get the hell out of there. 

Jack wasn't afraid of Randall, but  afraid of himself, and Ennis wasn't there.

Yes, Randall had it easy, in the sense that LaShawn did not have to be engaged.  Jack sort of had this also, but Lureen appeared to be smartwer, if not less absorbed than LaShawn (although she was indeed absorbed by the business -- so there is a similarity here for sure.)

Jack wasn't afraid of Randall, but  afraid of himself, and Ennis wasn't there.

Very well said!

[welshwitch]

Randall I think has also been very clever in getting himself a wife who is the last person to put two and two together and figure out her husband's true nature - she never shuts up long enough to think. and as long as she can dress up in her masses of clothes  she is evidently happy, so all Randall has to do is keep paying the bills. Though she does sound as if she thinks he isn't earning enough - there's that " more than Randall ever will make" remark. Maybe Randall feels Jack would be less demanding at least as far as clothes from Neiman Marcus are concerned.

[tpe]

Randall I think has also been very clever in getting himself a wife who is the last person to put two and two together and figure out her husband's true nature - she never shuts up long enough to think. and as long as she can dress up in her masses of clothes  she is evidently happy, so all Randall has to do is keep paying the bills. Though she does sound as if she thinks he isn't earning enough - there's that " more than Randall ever will make" remark. Maybe Randall feels Jack would be less demanding at least as far as clothes from Neiman Marcus are concerned.

I fully agree.  Randall was more clever in this regard, perhaps to ensure survival.  Besides, it must have made things easier for him: to establish liasons with other men when his wife is too preoccupied with herself to notice anything else.


AS for LaShawn's extravagance, I don't think Randall minded that much -- so long as they could afford it and so long as it made LaShawn blissfully blind to other things that mattered more to him.  IT was an irritaion, but a suitable price to pay.