Topic: Ennis' abilities.... Ranching vs. Power Company

[dirtbiker]

Did you all notice how fast Ennis brushes off a possible job at the power company even though it might be better pay, chalking it all up to being clumsy?    I wonder if he feels that ranching is all he can do, or perhaps maybe he thinks working at the power plant isn't as dignified?  Any thoughts?

[tpe]

Did you all notice how fast Ennis brushes off a possible job at the power company even though it might be better pay, chalking it all up to being clumsy?    I wonder if he feels that ranching is all he can do, or perhaps maybe he thinks working at the power plant isn't as dignified?  Any thoughts?

Very interesting, dirtbiker.

I felt that Ennis honestly believed that ranching was the only thing he could do.  I think he would consider any kind of honest work dignified.  He had no qualms telling Cassie that he was castrating calves in the morning.  He certainly did not feel there was anything wrong with hard work, even though it might seem lowly to some.

I think Ennis was a true stoic: accepting of what he thought about his limitations and patient with poverty and the hardships that go with it.  I do think he valued hard work.  And I do beleiev that he tried to be honest and fair in what he did do.

[gimmejack]

Eniss' self deprecating behavior and low self esteem/self confidence probably prevent him from venturing out and trying new things...Pretty much opposite of Jack huh?

Or maybe he just wanted to give Alma the brush off because he had yummier things on his mind and did not have time for chit-chat!

[tpe]

Or maybe he just wanted to give Alma the brush off because he had yummier things on his mind and did not have time for chit-chat!

This must have been true to a certain extent, no?  I wonder how he would have reacted had Alma Jr. suggested this later in life? Perhpas he would have reacted similarly, but I suspect he would not be so dismissive...

[dirtbiker]

Also, could be he didn't like change all that much...  Part of the reason he had such a hard time taking up on Jack's many suggestions.

[tpe]

Also, could be he didn't like change all that much...  Part of the reason he had such a hard time taking up on Jack's many suggestions.

Yes, I do think a certain amount of conservatism was also at fault here -- a resistance to change, perhaps.   

Also his statement to Alma Jr. in the last scene (about not needing anything) is quite revealing...

[dirtbiker]

He strikes me as someone who has been brought up to not "ruffle the feathers", and to let things "be".

[gimmejack]

It also occurs to me that Ennis was at a job that he was able to take off for a weekend if he had to  or if it was OWED to him rather.  Maybe a new job would not be so flexible with his time off.  I agree with you both on your points in regards to his conservatism.

[jesseanne21]

Did you all notice how fast Ennis brushes off a possible job at the power company even though it might be better pay, chalking it all up to being clumsy?    I wonder if he feels that ranching is all he can do, or perhaps maybe he thinks working at the power plant isn't as dignified?  Any thoughts?

Very interesting, dirtbiker.

I felt that Ennis honestly believed that ranching was the only thing he could do.  I think he would consider any kind of honest work dignified.  He had no qualms telling Cassie that he was castrating calves in the morning.  He certainly did not feel there was anything wrong with hard work, even though it might seem lowly to some.

I think Ennis was a true stoic: accepting of what he thought about his limitations and patient with poverty and the hardships that go with it.  I do think he valued hard work.  And I do beleiev that he tried to be honest and fair in what he did do.

I don't think that ranching is all he could do.  In the short story and movie Ennis worked for a while on the highway crew repairing roads (tolerating it).  In the ss it said Ennis preferred working around livestock. 

Ennis was not the kind of person to work indoors.  He liked working with animals more that with people.

[tpe]

Did you all notice how fast Ennis brushes off a possible job at the power company even though it might be better pay, chalking it all up to being clumsy?    I wonder if he feels that ranching is all he can do, or perhaps maybe he thinks working at the power plant isn't as dignified?  Any thoughts?

Very interesting, dirtbiker.

I felt that Ennis honestly believed that ranching was the only thing he could do.  I think he would consider any kind of honest work dignified.  He had no qualms telling Cassie that he was castrating calves in the morning.  He certainly did not feel there was anything wrong with hard work, even though it might seem lowly to some.

I think Ennis was a true stoic: accepting of what he thought about his limitations and patient with poverty and the hardships that go with it.  I do think he valued hard work.  And I do beleiev that he tried to be honest and fair in what he did do.

I don't think that ranching is all he could do.  In the short story and movie Ennis worked for a while on the highway crew repairing roads (tolerating it).  In the ss it said Ennis preferred working around livestock. 

Ennis was not the kind of person to work indoors.  He liked working with animals more that with people.

Yes, he must have been able to work the necessary odd jobs to cover for downtime, as well as to earn extra money.  But I do think all these jobs were temporary in nature, and had one common denominator: manual labour.

I would think that he considered himself a ranch hand and believed that this was where his skills lay. 

My opinion.

[jesseanne21]

Did you all notice how fast Ennis brushes off a possible job at the power company even though it might be better pay, chalking it all up to being clumsy?    I wonder if he feels that ranching is all he can do, or perhaps maybe he thinks working at the power plant isn't as dignified?  Any thoughts?

Very interesting, dirtbiker.

I felt that Ennis honestly believed that ranching was the only thing he could do.  I think he would consider any kind of honest work dignified.  He had no qualms telling Cassie that he was castrating calves in the morning.  He certainly did not feel there was anything wrong with hard work, even though it might seem lowly to some.

I think Ennis was a true stoic: accepting of what he thought about his limitations and patient with poverty and the hardships that go with it.  I do think he valued hard work.  And I do beleiev that he tried to be honest and fair in what he did do.

I don't think that ranching is all he could do.  In the short story and movie Ennis worked for a while on the highway crew repairing roads (tolerating it).  In the ss it said Ennis preferred working around livestock. 

Ennis was not the kind of person to work indoors.  He liked working with animals more that with people.

Yes, he must have been able to work the necessary odd jobs to cover for downtime, as well as to earn extra money.  But I do think all these jobs were temporary in nature, and had one common denominator: manual labour.

I would think that he considered himself a ranch hand and believed that this was where his skills lay. 

My opinion.

There's one other thing to consider...Ennis took jobs that were easy to get time off from or easy to quit, so he could spend whatever time he could with Jack up on Brokeback.

[gimmejack]

Agreed Jesseanne, he will most likely be locked into a 9-5 5at the power company and then no Jack...no way that was gonna happen.

[tpe]

There's one other thing to consider...Ennis took jobs that were easy to get time off from or easy to quit, so he could spend whatever time he could with Jack up on Brokeback.

Yes, I think so too, although it did still seem necessary for him to quit a job in his younger days to accomodate the fishing trips (if we are to believe his comments in the last meeting.)

[welshwitch]

That's why he ttok ranching jobs - my "expertise" in this area comes from reading Steinbeck, but isn't it true that it was possible to take seasonal jobs here and there without being tied down to one employer and thus be able to take a week off before starting somewhere else? I assumed that Ennis liked being outdoors, liked working with animals ( less complex than people and you don't have to have conversations with them), would have been much more tied down by a job with the power company, 9-5 or having to work shirts over weekeends, etc. I also assumed that in the confrontation, when Ennis says he can't get the time off and can't quit his present job, that casual  jobs on the land are becoming harder to find ( which would make sense in the 80s). Ennis also has a habit of turning down all Alma's suggestions - he could have thought this one was meant to tie him down and stop him getting away.

[gimmejack]

That's why he ttok ranching jobs - my "expertise" in this area comes from reading Steinbeck, but isn't it true that it was possible to take seasonal jobs here and there without being tied down to one employer and thus be able to take a week off before starting somewhere else? I assumed that Ennis liked being outdoors, liked working with animals ( less complex than people and you don't have to have conversations with them), would have been much more tied down by a job with the power company, 9-5 or having to work shirts over weekeends, etc. I also assumed that in the confrontation, when Ennis says he can't get the time off and can't quit his present job, that casual  jobs on the land are becoming harder to find ( which would make sense in the 80s). Ennis also has a habit of turning down all Alma's suggestions - he could have thought this one was meant to tie him down and stop him getting away.

and i'm sure that was Alma's intentions (poor thing) a sad attept to get him tied down with more stability.

[dirtbiker]

Yes, come to think of it, Ennis does seem to like working with animals and not people as evidenced by his aloofness with that guy during the asphalt job.

[gimmejack]

Yep, Ennis was definetely not a people person, just a "Jack" person.

[LuvJackNasty]

[
There's one other thing to consider...Ennis took jobs that were easy to get time off from or easy to quit, so he could spend whatever time he could with Jack up on Brokeback.

I agree- that's my take on it.

[welshwitch]

Alma also resents their lack of monmey - she says she's have more children if Ennis would support them, she gets a job, she eventually marries a more financialy stable man - I suppose the power company job would be not just stable but also better paid than casual ranch work, so some of it may be alma wanting a better life in material terms. It strikes me that she's much more stereotypically American in this sense, as is Jack - wanting a better life I mean, or following the dream, whereas Ennis isn't. He appears unable to entertain ambition or dream.

[aintfoolin]

Getting ready to go on a "fishing trip", with JT is not the time to approach Ennis about a job change . His mind is focased on one thing. .......Seeing Jack again .  Plus he was running late too?   and I agree Ennis does'nt seem to like sudden changes in his routine. It has been his dream to own a "spread" of his own so its logical for Ennis to work on ranches. He's from ranch people,and it's in his blood. Besides It's what Jack likes too. Perhaps if he had taken a job at the power Co. the schedule may not allow him time off to see Jack.

[NoReins]

I reckon the main reason he stuck to ranch jobs was that there were plenty of them around and it was easy to get off to go away with Jack, even if it meant quitting one and getting another when he returned

[Rønnaug]

I reckon the main reason he stuck to ranch jobs was that there were plenty of them around and it was easy to get off to go away with Jack, even if it meant quitting one and getting another when he returned

This is what I think too... I think Ennis even at that time realized that he would need to have easy exits to keep seeing Jack. He could quit easily and always another job waiting without having to spend lots of time learning a new skill... New place, same job... easy peasy

[welshwitch]

And if such jobs were normally or often temporary, there could be no comment on his ending one and taking up another after a short break.  Whereas the power company job would probably involve being trained and committed and all the things Ennis wouldn't like. Ranching also sounds more Western/macho to me at least, or even the road gang job he did, whereas working for the power company sounds more little grey man even if it involved fixing broken power lines.

Of course, he may also be telling the truth ( he generally does) when he says he's clumsy and might electrocute himself ( though of the two Jack always appears clumsy). Ennis is always competent in what he does but again perhaps he doesn't trust himself outside his normal parameters, which fits with his character.

[Rosie]

I agree with all the above. It was easier for Ennis to keep changing his jobs so that he didn't have to build up close daily friendships with his co workers, with all the personal chatter that would involve.  It was easier to keep his privacy chopping and changing jobs, and he wouldn't have to join in any out of work activities or explain why he didn't want to.

[welshwitch]

Good point, rosie. and of course if his trips with Jack were in between jobs he wouldn't have to answer all those tedious questions "Where are you going for your week off?" and when he got back "What did you do?" or "Did you have a good time?" or worse "Did Alma and the kids go with you?" Endless possibilities for embarrassment there  - much easier to "disappear" the trips into the periods between one job and the next.

[TexRob]

In the final scene with Jack, Ennis says that he "can't just quit this job like I used to."  It was a ranching job he was talking about at that time.  I took that to mean that he had been quitting jobs to run off with Jack, and it was easy to do when he had fewer obligations, like child support.  So looking back at this scene, it seems that in his mind he was already oriented to his relationship with Jack, even at the expense of his family.  If it hadn't been for Jack, he would have seriously considered the steady job. 

That scene also alludes to Annie Proulx's stories of the disappearing West.  The people who used to live there were giving way to new-type persons: urban people, salaried people, and company workers.  So the scene indicates that Ennis was the last of a dying breed, unwilling for whatever reason to make that lifestyle transition.

[welshwitch]

I agree, TexRob - Ennis is a nineteenth-century man in many ways, part of the agrarian tradition; Jack is twentieth-century in turn. The jobs both do typify this; no way was Ennis going to be dragged into the modern world and work with something as lifeless as electricity when he had the option of cows and horses.

[tpe]

In the final scene with Jack, Ennis says that he "can't just quit this job like I used to."  It was a ranching job he was talking about at that time.  I took that to mean that he had been quitting jobs to run off with Jack, and it was easy to do when he had fewer obligations, like child support.  So looking back at this scene, it seems that in his mind he was already oriented to his relationship with Jack, even at the expense of his family.  If it hadn't been for Jack, he would have seriously considered the steady job. 

That scene also alludes to Annie Proulx's stories of the disappearing West.  The people who used to live there were giving way to new-type persons: urban people, salaried people, and company workers.  So the scene indicates that Ennis was the last of a dying breed, unwilling for whatever reason to make that lifestyle transition.

I certainly agree that Ennis was also making sacrifices that Jack could have been taking for granted because of his more secure financial position.  When Ennis was younger, it was easier to go from one job to the next, plus -- as is ponted out in the above -- such jobs were relatively plentiful at that time.  But as Ennis grew older, he probably had to compete with younger guys for dwindling jobs.

The disconnect between the two of them is most apparent here.  Jack was most probably aware that Ennis, like himself, also made sacrifices in order to be together.  But I guess in the final analysis, Jack really didn't care about his own or Ennis's sacrifices.  He cared about being together -- and to hell with everything else.

We know that Jack did not care particularly that much for financial comfort at that time: he was willing to divorce Lureen and move back to Lightning Flat with someone who would love him and share a life with him.  In his mind, that would have been Ennis.

What has this to do with Ennis's abilities?  It is this:  I think Ennis restricted himself partly by choice and partly for love (i.e., being able to meet Jack).  It is ironic to realize that doing ranch work was all that he needed to know if he were only willing to share that sweet life as Jack originally had proposed to him.

[Patriot1]

Did you all notice how fast Ennis brushes off a possible job at the power company even though it might be better pay, chalking it all up to being clumsy?    I wonder if he feels that ranching is all he can do, or perhaps maybe he thinks working at the power plant isn't as dignified?  Any thoughts?

In my opinion Ennis did not want a regular 9 to 5 job with one week a year vacation no matter how much it paid. He wanted a job where he could take off almost whenever he wanted to so he could be with Jack. Or, at least a job that was easily replaced when he couldn't get the time off and he quit.

[greenfrog]

I found this interesting post on IMDB.com . . . .

Posted by sullyjay86

"I apologise in advance if this has already been posted but I just had to comment on it.

Has anyone noticed that Jack can barely do anything but Ennis always manages it.

Examples:
1. Aguirre chucks keys to Ennis in the trailer and he catches them - Jack's father-in-law chucks the car/truck keys to Jack but he can't catch them (they fall on the floor).
2. Ennis (at the beginning when he's in front of Aguirre's trailer) neatly flicks the ash of his cigarette and puts it in his pocket - Jack's ash, on the other hand, drops all over him during the dinner with Randall and his wife.
3. Jack tries to shoot a cayote but fails (we see this) - Ennis later reports he shot a 'cayote this morning' when he stays with the sheep.
4. Jack keeps on missing when trying to shoot the elk for dinner (we don't see this but Ennis mentions it) - Ennis finds his target perfectly.
5. Ennis cooks with minimum fuss - Jack has trouble opening the can of beans.
6. Jack seems too struggle with his 'mare' and in rodeo - we never see Ennis have any trouble with his (apart from when the horse is frightened by the bear but that's understandable) and I bet he's better at rodeo too.
7. Jack's truck breaks down when they're parting after the summer but who fixes it? Jack? Nope, Ennis does. I'm sure Jack tried but failed (or maybe I'm just being cruel. Lol.)

I'm sure there are many more examples but those are it for now. I'm sure it's just another device to show how different they are but I could be totally wrong.

What do you guys think? "