Author Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent Spoiler (Read 459820 times)

alicat · « **Reply #30 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 04:11 PM »

I am SURE that, when Ennis enters the tent on the second night and he and Jack begin to kiss, Ennis is muttering 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry' - as I said, barely audible and they are kissing when he says it so may be difficult to hear, but I'm sure he does say this or something similar. And Jack responds with something like 'It's alright'.. Although someone did say earlier that this isn't the case so maybe I am hearing things but I do think something is whispered. Dam!! - can someone who is planning on seeing it again soon please listen carefully and check this? I found a lot of the dialogue difficult to hear but I'm sure I heard this.

I also have another question re. whispered dialogue: when Jack and Ennis are in bed in the Motel. Jack whispers something in Ennis's ear - quite a long sentence and I didn't catch any of it..what the hell is he saying?! Sorry moderators - let me know if I should post a new thread for this.

tpe · « **Reply #31 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 04:43 PM »

Quote from: alicat on Jan 24, 2006, 04:11 PM

I am SURE that, when Ennis enters the tent on the second night and he and Jack begin to kiss, Ennis is muttering 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry' - as I said, barely audible and they are kissing when he says it so may be difficult to hear, but I'm sure he does say this or something similar. And Jack responds with something like 'It's alright'.. Although someone did say earlier that this isn't the case so maybe I am hearing things but I do think something is whispered. Dam!! - can someone who is planning on seeing it again soon please listen carefully and check this? I found a lot of the dialogue difficult to hear but I'm sure I heard this.

I also have another question re. whispered dialogue: when Jack and Ennis are in bed in the Motel. Jack whispers something in Ennis's ear - quite a long sentence and I didn't catch any of it..what the hell is he saying?! Sorry moderators - let me know if I should post a new thread for this.

You are probably refering to the sentence at the Motel Siesta where Jack, after saying something like 'I swear I didn't know we would get into this again' says that hell, he DID plan it...red-lined it all the way (i.e., getting in bed with Ennis.)

If I remember correctly, the screenplay does not say anything about Jack saying 'I'm sorry' during the 2nd tent scene.

But Gyllenhaal could have been ad-libbing here, so someone should check this out.

In the last fight scene between Ennis and Jack, when Ennis collapses into Jack's arms, I thought I heard Gyllenhaal say 'Sorry' before saying 'It's alright...Damn you Ennis...'. I am almost sure that in the screenplay, Jack should have said 'Come here...It's alright...Damn you Ennis' -- he does not say sorry. But I will have to check the screenplay, to be sure. In any case, can someone verify that Gyllenhaal ad-libbed here by saying 'Sorry' instead of 'Come here'?

Toadily · « **Reply #32 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 04:55 PM »

You know in 6 viewings I haven't heard "I'm sorry" and I looked for the last couple of times.

tpe · « **Reply #33 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 04:59 PM »

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Our posts are beginning to sound like those of learned theologians expounding on talmudic or biblical exegesis!!! Is this a mark of OBSESSION or what!!!!!?

Toadily · « **Reply #34 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 05:02 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jan 24, 2006, 04:59 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Our posts are beginning to sound like those of learned theologians expounding on talmudic or biblical exegesis!!! Is this a mark of OBSESSION or what!!!!!?

Yep!!!

alicat · « **Reply #35 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 05:06 PM »

No - Jack doesn't apologise on their second night together, Ennis does from what I can recall.

Thanks for clearing up what Jack whispers to ennis in the Motel Siesta!

*Froggy* · « **Reply #36 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 05:17 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jan 24, 2006, 04:59 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Our posts are beginning to sound like those of learned theologians expounding on talmudic or biblical exegesis!!! Is this a mark of OBSESSION or what!!!!!?

Yep...double yep even!

Toadily · « **Reply #37 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 05:20 PM »

I am trying to keep from over analyzing though, I mean like trekkies do, you know "What weapon did Capt Kirk use against clingon number 12 in episode 22" and stuff like that. I heard Mark Hamill once say he had NO idea when they made star wars that every little move he made would be super scrutinized.

jimnick · « **Reply #38 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 05:22 PM »

I'll bet there was a lot more whispering going on between them that we ever heard! I've lain awake many nights conjuring it!

I won't dwell on it now.

jim

jason · « **Reply #39 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 02:42 AM »

Quote from: j on Jan 24, 2006, 11:01 AM

In the good old days, not that long ago , ALL MALES took their hat off as a sign of respect.NO MALE would EVER have a hat on at the table.
Too bad that this is not the case nowadays.
J

Just an aside. In the Southwest, and I don't know about etiquette further north, it's OK for men wear hats inside. Of coiurse they take them off to women, but eating joints are filled with hatted men. Always were.

This makes the submission theme, and the shield theme seem stronger to me. Ang makes a point of the hat held across Ennis waist. So maybe it's more specific, signifying Ennis' virginity.

JennyD · « **Reply #40 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 01:05 PM »

Quote from: tweric on Jan 19, 2006, 05:19 PM

My take is that he finally gave in (to the "whatever " it was between them). Remember the "look" Ennis threw at Jack when Ennis left the main camp and Jack asked, apologetically almost, "See you for supper?" after their *first night*? It was a look of disgust. Ennis was still not accepting at the moment. (In the book, it's a bit different, but essentially turns out the same way)

Then Jack went up to the mountain. A better bet would be Ennis didn't and didn't want to return to the main camp that night, so Jack went up there the next day and basically saying "let's talk" -- in their cowboy/herder/ranchhand way -- prop up on one elbow and side, then wait. :p

Of course, this could all happen on the same day.

Now that they "talked" and understood each other, so Ennis returned to the main camp. Jack couldn't just *pull* Ennis to the tent after the supper, so he went in first and whatever. Jack switched the role and was the camp tender anyway. Ennis could just head back to the sheep, but after some hesitation, he chose to continue the "courting". Of course he was really new at this, hence the "apologetic" and "vulnerable" look and behavior. (I'd say Ennis's being "apologetic" because the "mean" look he threw at Jack that morning)

BTW, I thought I heard (almost non-audible) Jack saying "shhh.. It's ok, it's all right" during the 2nd tent scene...

JennyD · « **Reply #41 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 01:55 PM »

Quote from: alicat on Jan 23, 2006, 01:23 PM

Yes, I heard Ennis apologise to Jack when he entered the tent (barely audible though it was). He said 'I'm sorry..i'm sorry' and then Jack responds 'It's alright..it's alright' or similar. My guess is Ennis is apologising for ignoring Jack and riding off after their first night together.

On a slightly different note, I love the look Jack has in his eyes when he and Jack are about to kiss in that scene above. He looks deep into his eyes..I would love to have seen that scene from Ennis's perspective to see how he was looking at Jack.

________________________________________________________________________________
I heard Ennis apologize to Jack too. I think Ennis was apologizing for being so rough with Jack when they had sex the night before. So he whispers I'm sorry and jack says it's all right and then Ennis pulls Jack on top of him and they kiss. Beautiful.

Jenny D

ethan · « **Reply #42 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 02:42 PM »

Quote from: JennyD on Jan 26, 2006, 01:55 PM

I heard Ennis apologize to Jack too. I think Ennis was apologizing for being so rough with Jack when they had sex the night before. So he whispers I'm sorry and jack says it's all right and then Ennis pulls Jack on top of him and they kiss. Beautiful.
Jenny D

There are some conflicting posts about Ennis's apology. Did he say that he is sorry? If you are going to see this movie again, please listen carefully. I think I heard it but I will pay more attention in my 6th viewing.

j · « **Reply #43 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 02:45 PM »

Quote from: jason on Jan 26, 2006, 02:42 AM

Quote from: j on Jan 24, 2006, 11:01 AM
In the good old days, not that long ago , ALL MALES took their hat off as a sign of respect.NO MALE would EVER have a hat on at the table.
Too bad that this is not the case nowadays.
J

Just an aside. In the Southwest, and I don't know about etiquette further north, it's OK for men wear hats inside. Of coiurse they take them off to women, but eating joints are filled with hatted men. Always were.

REALLY? Hmmmmmm I can tell you from New England all the way to Florida NO WELL MANNERED MAN would wear a hat at the dinner table or even the counter at the diner. Now of course thisk has changed in the last 15 years, BUT th emajority of people her do not keep their hats on, and would be considered very rude if they did not take them off.
That said I had togo to jury duty the other day and a few younger guys left their caps on in the courtroom and right away an officer of the court came in and told ALL to remove their hats. Now this was not even when the judge was there but just all of us waiting.
Interesting how things are in different localities.

J
T

This makes the submission theme, and the shield theme seem stronger to me. Ang makes a point of the hat held across Ennis waist. So maybe it's more specific, signifying Ennis' virginity.

camom · « **Reply #44 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 04:13 PM »

I saw Ennis' taking the hat off when entering the tent as a point of submission, but the way he held it in front of him made me think he was also unconsciously using it as a shield. So maybe signifying a conflict between submission and trying to protect himself from his desire for Jack?

camom

Toadily · « **Reply #45 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 04:14 PM »

Quote from: camom on Jan 26, 2006, 04:13 PM

I saw Ennis' taking the hat off when entering the tent as a point of submission, but the way he held it in front of him made me think he was also unconsciously using it as a shield. So maybe signifying a conflict between submission and trying to protect himself from his desire for Jack?

camom

Definitely, I see that. He is still in protection mode at that point but obviously choosing to be there.

camom · « **Reply #46 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 04:15 PM »

I also thought I heard "I'm sorry" and "It's alright" during the tent scene, but don't ask me who was saying it! They both seemed to be murmuring a lot.

camom

coguaro · « **Reply #47 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 04:28 PM »

There is no doubt... I listened Ennis say sorry. Italian translation of course is terrifyng but his advantage is that every word is well clear (for the stupid reason to be all audible even if like this dialog appears so feints!!).

I think that Ennis say sorry because he told Jack before that he refused to be "gay".. and that the situation couldn't have a future... by this way he offended Jack and the feelling which was growing in them... he offended himself...

coguaro

chameau · « **Reply #48 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 04:46 PM »

Quote

There is no doubt... I listened Ennis say sorry. Italian translation of course is terrifyng but his advantage is that every word is well clear (for the stupid reason to be all audible even if like this dialog appears so feints!!).

I think that Ennis say sorry because he told Jack before that he refused to be "gay".. and that the situation couldn't have a future... by this way he offended Jack and the feelling which was growing in them... he offended himself...

coguaro

Mhhh! I did not heard the sorry from Ennis... will need to pay attention on the next viewing. But, I heard Jack whispering it's allright many times. Very moving scene... Sob! :'(

dirtbiker · « **Reply #49 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 04:50 PM »

I heard both "I'm sorry" and "It's alright" during the tent scene, but god knows who said it to whom...

chameau · « **Reply #50 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 04:58 PM »

Quote

"It's alright"

Jack, I paid a lot of attention on that scene durig my last viewing.

JennyD · « **Reply #51 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 08:42 PM »

Quote from: ethan on Jan 26, 2006, 02:42 PM

Quote from: JennyD on Jan 26, 2006, 01:55 PM
I heard Ennis apologize to Jack too. I think Ennis was apologizing for being so rough with Jack when they had sex the night before. So he whispers I'm sorry and jack says it's all right and then Ennis pulls Jack on top of him and they kiss. Beautiful.
Jenny D

There are some conflicting posts about Ennis's apology. Did he say that he is sorry? If you are going to see this movie again, please listen carefully. I think I heard it but I will pay more attention in my 6th viewing.

_______________________________________________________________________________
I just got back from my 6th viewing tonight. I did hear Ennis say I'm sorry and Jack said it's alright. But I don't remember in which order.

Jenny D.

rane99 · « **Reply #52 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 08:55 PM »

Quote from: ethan on Jan 18, 2006, 07:43 PM

Just went to my 5th viewing today. Every time is a new discovery and thought process. One of them is the topic I am posting.

In the 2nd tent scene, why did Ennis enter the tent and apologize to Jack? How significant is his initiative?

Well..I have thought of the first question - still can't figure it out. Any thought on that?

For the second question, it is no doubt in my mind that Ennis was drawn to Jack and really took comfort in the relationship. The love making scene is just incredible. I could watch it over and over again.

rane99 · « **Reply #53 on:** Jan 26, 2006, 08:58 PM »

In the second tent scene, Ennis was not apologizing.. that was Jack assuring Ennis very softly with 'It's alright,, It's alright"

jason · « **Reply #54 on:** Jan 27, 2006, 12:44 AM »

Quote from: j on Jan 26, 2006, 02:45 PM

Quote from: jason on Jan 26, 2006, 02:42 AM
Quote from: j on Jan 24, 2006, 11:01 AM
In the good old days, not that long ago , ALL MALES took their hat off as a sign of respect.NO MALE would EVER have a hat on at the table.
Too bad that this is not the case nowadays.
J

Just an aside. In the Southwest, and I don't know about etiquette further north, it's OK for men wear hats inside. Of coiurse they take them off to women, but eating joints are filled with hatted men. Always were.

REALLY? Hmmmmmm I can tell you from New England all the way to Florida NO WELL MANNERED MAN would wear a hat at the dinner table or even the counter at the diner. Now of course thisk has changed in the last 15 years, BUT th emajority of people her do not keep their hats on, and would be considered very rude if they did not take them off.
That said I had togo to jury duty the other day and a few younger guys left their caps on in the courtroom and right away an officer of the court came in and told ALL to remove their hats. Now this was not even when the judge was there but just all of us waiting.
Interesting how things are in different localities.

J
T

I too was brought up in the E USA/European way to remove my hat. I was a stunned as you sound to get to Arizona and find different manners, although quite as courtly and polite as any folks anywhere.

stephan · « **Reply #55 on:** Jan 27, 2006, 09:59 AM »

Only seen the film twice, never heard Ennis's "I'm sorry," but I heard Jack's "shh... it's all right..."

I give you the benefit of the doubt because I would love for Ennis to have said he was sorry and would love to believe it was for having not said anything to Jack the whole day except that declaration that there would be no next time as he ain't no queer

And that implies that the 2nd tent scene takes place less than 24 hours after the first one.
Stephan

bnjmn3 · « **Reply #56 on:** Jan 28, 2006, 05:54 PM »

After 8 viewings, Ennis doesn't say a word in the 2nd tent scene, Jack says "Its all right" ( in a mumbling whisper of course) three times before they kiss. All the words come from Jack's mouth. Are there different released versions of this film??

*Froggy* · « **Reply #57 on:** Jan 28, 2006, 06:11 PM »

Quote from: bnjmn3 on Jan 28, 2006, 05:54 PM

After 8 viewings, Ennis doesn't say a word in the 2nd tent scene, Jack says "Its all right" ( in a mumbling whisper of course) three times before they kiss. All the words come from Jack's mouth. Are there different released versions of this film??

Same here, I saw BBM again today, and Ennis does not say a thing! He looks sorry, but not one word comes out of his mouth!

ethan · « **Reply #58 on:** Jan 28, 2006, 10:34 PM »

Quote from: frog123 on Jan 28, 2006, 06:11 PM

Same here, I saw BBM again today, and Ennis does not say a thing! He look sorry, but not one word comes out of his mouth!

OK. I think I am due for my 6th viewing. Let's tentatively make it this coming Tuesday - Oscar nominations and I will report if I am just dreaming.

proulxfan · « **Reply #59 on:** Jan 29, 2006, 10:55 AM »

Just when I thought I was beginning to get over this d*** movie, now you all point out these EXQUISITE details, and now I HAVE to go see it again! How long does it take this PBS to run its couse??? I can't stand it!! *laughing*

Author Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler* (Read 459820 times)

Author Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent Spoiler (Read 459820 times)