Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*

[smartestsonia]

And we should note that the next scene -- showing them horsing around with each other -- is meant to reinforce the point that the floodgates were open and that they were being themselves when with each other (with or without the prying eyes of Aguirre).  I think that there is a deliberate desire in this scene to echo the Walt Whitman of the Calamus poems. 

This is very true..When I watched that scene I was so happy...I was like...wow...Ennis is playing with Jack...That was so beautiful and they were so being themselves...I think this scene was very important and showed their comfort level as well as love...

The SNIT made Ennis alive, to say the least...       

[tpe]

This is very true..When I watched that scene I was so happy...I was like...wow...Ennis is playing with Jack...That was so beautiful and they were so being themselves...I think this scene was very important and showed their comfort level as well as love...

The SNIT made Ennis alive, to say the least...       

Did any of you get the feeling that Ang Lee intended the "horsing around" scene to be interpreted as a kind of direct "consequence" or effect of the preceding  scene?  I think that the placement of these 2 scenes (one after the other) is very deliberate and was meant to suggest a kind of "cause and effect".

[smartestsonia]

Did any of you get the feeling that Ang Lee intended the "horsing around" scene to be interpreted as a kind of direct "consequence" or effect of the preceding  scene?  I think that the placement of these 2 scenes (one after the other) is very deliberate and was meant to suggest a kind of "cause and effect".

Yes, I agree with u...It is the "Cause and Effect"...SNIT was taking their relationship to the next level and there was an unbreakable bond developed...Placing the "horsing around" scene after that complements the SNIT..The beautiful effect that it had on both and especially Ennis because he started playing with Jack...To see that coming from Ennis was amazing and out of the world as it showed that atleast on the mountains Ennis could throw away his inhibitions and be himself...The SNIT definitely played a catalyst in that...

[ksxks]

Yes, I agree with u...It is the "Cause and Effect"...SNIT was taking their relationship to the next level and there was an unbreakable bond developed...Placing the "horsing around" scene after that complements the SNIT..The beautiful effect that it had on both and especially Ennis because he started playing with Jack...To see that coming from Ennis was amazing and out of the world as it showed that atleast on the mountains Ennis could throw away his inhibitions and be himself...The SNIT definitely played a catalyst in that...

Very much so.  But then, for this to be interrupted by Aguirre immediately injects interference by the "outside world" into their idyllic discovery of their new relationship.  Though they don't know that.  Which is another interesting thing about the events of this story.  But then, when Aguirre comes and sees Jack, he definitely seems to feel guilty when Aguirre looks up into the hills at Ennis.  I'm sure he wondered if Aguirre knew something.  Being the sweetheart that he is, and wise in the ways of Ennis, I'm sure he didn't tell Ennis about Aguirre's binoculars.

kathy

kathy

[smartestsonia]

Very much so.  But then, for this to be interrupted by Aguirre immediately injects interference by the "outside world" into their idyllic discovery of their new relationship.  Though they don't know that.  Which is another interesting thing about the events of this story.  But then, when Aguirre comes and sees Jack, he definitely seems to feel guilty when Aguirre looks up into the hills at Ennis.  I'm sure he wondered if Aguirre knew something.  Being the sweetheart that he is, and wise in the ways of Ennis, I'm sure he didn't tell Ennis about Aguirre's binoculars.

kathy

kathy

Ya exactly, Ennis was being himself and he could be so as no one was judging him on the Mountains...That made things easy but for how long could they hide from the cluches of the world...The first hit of the real world at that time came from Aguirre..Jack definitely sensed that Aguirre knew something..The way he spoke to Jack said it all but Jack knew Ennis and his fears..Ennis would have got freaked out to the core if he knew that Aguirre knew..As u said Jack was wise and he was also sensitive towards Ennis and kept that to himself...
I love Jack 

[tpe]

Thanks smartestsonia and kathy.  And yes, I also felt that Jack probably sensed something when he was Aguirre...

It's funny that the beautiful mood that starts with Ennis entering the tent culminates in a scene that is BOTH a full expression of the "Spring" of their love and the BEGINNING of their problems with a disapproving society, as embodied by Aguirre.

Ennis entering the tent was only possible up there on BBM, in a wold seemingly inhabited by just the two of them.  Aguirre's entry was a grim reminder, that "they" too are in Arcadia, if you get my allusion here...

[atalley]

Yes, I agree with u...It is the "Cause and Effect"...SNIT was taking their relationship to the next level and there was an unbreakable bond developed...Placing the "horsing around" scene after that complements the SNIT..The beautiful effect that it had on both and especially Ennis because he started playing with Jack...To see that coming from Ennis was amazing and out of the world as it showed that atleast on the mountains Ennis could throw away his inhibitions and be himself...The SNIT definitely played a catalyst in that...

The "horsing around" cemented the fact that they had now accepted the relationship after SNIT.

[tpe]

The "horsing around" cemented the fact that they had now accepted the relationship after SNIT.

Yes, there was no longer any pretense.  They felt totally free on BBM.  For Ennis, it was probably like a first taste of freedom.

[myprivatejack]

Yes, there was no longer any pretense.  They felt totally free on BBM.  For Ennis, it was probably like a first taste of freedom.

I'm sure it wasˇ.Even if,as soon as they coming down from the mountain,he "crashed" against real life and he knew for sure also that he must be an slave of his duties and society rules in general.

[tpe]

Which is why entering the tent must have been an act of liberation for Ennis.  I think it was the very first time he allowed himself to do what he truly desired.

[myprivatejack]

Which is why entering the tent must have been an act of liberation for Ennis.  I think it was the very first time he allowed himself to do what he truly desired.

Exactlyˇ.But coming back to his former life,meant to come back also to do onwards what he MUST do...

[tpe]

Exactlyˇ.But coming back to his former life,meant to come back also to do onwards what he MUST do...

IN a way, the liberation didn't translate outside of BBM, and beyond the 2 of them. When they came down, each of them BECAME BBM for the other, if you know what I mean...

[zamilham]

Which is why entering the tent must have been an act of liberation for Ennis.  I think it was the very first time he allowed himself to do what he truly desired.

Yes, there was no longer any pretense.  They felt totally free on BBM.  For Ennis, it was probably like a first taste of freedom.

I quite like the way you said it tpe.  before i found this forum, i always have these why/how/what/what if/may be/could be/most probably/etc. etc. etc. and here, i get to analyse all of them to come up to my own conclusion.

i am a little bit like ennis myself. its hard when you are so "fearful of" and bound by the societal confine.  to me, being on that mountain is like a freedom to ennis, away from society eyes and whatsoever.  entering the tent in SNIT must be a very difficult decision for ennis.  whats with the horrifying incident when he was 9, knowing that the society would not approve of the relationship. 

when he first met jack at aguirre's trailer, he was the quiet, uncommunicative ennis. but on that mountain, with jack's persona, he started to mellow down.  he started talking (hence jack's "that's more words than the past two weeks").  he feels comfortable with jack.  and jack has been his companion for the past couple of weeks.

when he was outside by the fire, he was at war with himself.  half of him didn't want to go inside - for fear of the societal confine, but the other half of him wants to go in, because that was jack in the tent.  jack that he knew, jack who has been his companion for the past couple of week, jack that he is comfortable with.  jack who treated him like an equal.  he feel accepted by jack.

and maybe thats what he always wanted, to be accepted. and jack has that.  hence he choose to go into that tent in SNIT.   well, that my opinion.

[tpe]

I quite like the way you said it tpe.  before i found this forum, i always have these why/how/what/what if/may be/could be/most probably/etc. etc. etc. and here, i get to analyse all of them to come up to my own conclusion.

i am a little bit like ennis myself. its hard when you are so "fearful of" and bound by the societal confine.  to me, being on that mountain is like a freedom to ennis, away from society eyes and whatsoever.  entering the tent in SNIT must be a very difficult decision for ennis.  whats with the horrifying incident when he was 9, knowing that the society would not approve of the relationship. 

when he first met jack at aguirre's trailer, he was the quiet, uncommunicative ennis. but on that mountain, with jack's persona, he started to mellow down.  he started talking (hence jack's "that's more words than the past two weeks").  he feels comfortable with jack.  and jack has been his companion for the past couple of weeks.

when he was outside by the fire, he was at war with himself.  half of him didn't want to go inside - for fear of the societal confine, but the other half of him wants to go in, because that was jack in the tent.  jack that he knew, jack who has been his companion for the past couple of week, jack that he is comfortable with.  jack who treated him like an equal.  he feel accepted by jack.

and maybe thats what he always wanted, to be accepted. and jack has that.  hence he choose to go into that tent in SNIT.   well, that my opinion.

This is what I feel also.  I really felt that at that point, Ennis was struggling within himself, knowing full well that there would be no turning back should he enter the tent.  Even when he entered the tent, I sense an awkwardness in him that indicates that he has made the decisive step, but was unsure as to how best to proceed.  Jack took it over from there... 

[zamilham]

This is what I feel also.  I really felt that at that point, Ennis was struggling within himself, knowing full well that there would be no turning back should he enter the tent.  Even when he entered the tent, I sense an awkwardness in him that indicates that he has made the decisive step, but was unsure as to how best to proceed.  Jack took it over from there... 

yes. thats very true.  and good thing that jack takes over.  because as much as the decision was ennis's, he was so anxious and uncertain of what he should do next.  the tentative steps that he took by entering the tent was too much for him. (and thats what makes him so adorable to me  )

[tpe]

yes. thats very true.  and good thing that jack takes over.  because as much as the decision was ennis's, he was so anxious and uncertain of what he should do next.  the tentative steps that he took by entering the tent was too much for him. (and thats what makes him so adorable to me  )

Exactly.  I think Jack understood this the moment Ennis entered the tent.  It was as if Ennis was saying: Here I am.  I am in your hands.  It was a great display of trust, especially for Ennis.  And I do beleieve that Jack's tenderness was a direct response to this expression of complete surrender.

[myprivatejack]

Exactly.  I think Jack understood this the moment Ennis entered the tent.  It was as if Ennis was saying: Here I am.  I am in your hands.  It was a great display of trust, especially for Ennis.  And I do beleieve that Jack's tenderness was a direct response to this expression of complete surrender.

Exactlyˇ I think that Jack understood from the very first moment the struggle that Ennis was having inside him between his wishes and his fears.And that the way he behave to calm Ennis anxiety and shyness is his answer to both this struggle and his surrender at the end.

[ksxks]

Exactly.  I think Jack understood this the moment Ennis entered the tent.  It was as if Ennis was saying: Here I am.  I am in your hands.  It was a great display of trust, especially for Ennis.  And I do beleieve that Jack's tenderness was a direct response to this expression of complete surrender.

That's so beautiful, T.  That's is very much what I see in those moments...

kathy

[tpe]

Exactlyˇ I think that Jack understood from the very first moment the struggle that Ennis was having inside him between his wishes and his fears.And that the way he behave to calm Ennis anxiety and shyness is his answer to both this struggle and his surrender at the end.

Did you get the "weird" impression that that part of the SNIT looked very much like a mother comforting a child and putting him/her to sleep? 

I think this and the DE are 2 of the outstanding scenes where we see such echoes in BBM.  Ansd I think that they were very much intentional -- in order to evoke a similar feeling in us all: a feeling that all of us can connect to.

[tpe]

That's so beautiful, T.  That's is very much what I see in those moments...

kathy

Thanks kathy.  As I suggested in my last post, I think this scene somehow touches a nerve in us all, because we can relate to them at a certain level just under the surface of consciousness, if you will.  The ability of such scenes in BBM to speak to us this way makes them truly great. 

[vedrana]

At first I couldn't accept the idea of mother-child relationship between them, but it is just the way it is - comforting and tender Jack and uneasy Ennis.

And yes! We can see ourselves in both!

[tpe]

At first I couldn't accept the idea of mother-child relationship between them, but it is just the way it is - comforting and tender Jack and uneasy Ennis.

And yes! We can see ourselves in both!

Well, I only meant to say that it evoked such images.  I would not go so far as to say that their relationship was predominantly maternal. 

[vedrana]

Well, I only meant to say that it evoked such images.  I would not go so far as to say that their relationship was predominantly maternal. 

Well, maybe I overemphasized that, but I also didn't mean that it was predominantly maternal relationship! 

[myprivatejack]

Did you get the "weird" impression that that part of the SNIT looked very much like a mother comforting a child and putting him/her to sleep? 

I think this and the DE are 2 of the outstanding scenes where we see such echoes in BBM.  Ansd I think that they were very much intentional -- in order to evoke a similar feeling in us all: a feeling that all of us can connect to.

Well, I only meant to say that it evoked such images.  I would not go so far as to say that their relationship was predominantly maternal. 

No,I wouldn't ever see their relationship as "maternal";neither as "paternal",preciselyˇ  Speaking seriously,in the sense that Jack is comforting a somehow anguished Ennis,or a tender Ennis is caring for a half slept Jack,we can see a kind of mother-child relationship in both scenes.We have talked about the DE in another thread,and we share the idea,more or less,that Ennis is giving Jack the love both of them needed in the way he remembered having it from his own mother.And,at the same time,he's receving also this same love by remembering his few good and tender childhood memories.And yes,as all of us has been or are parents or children of someone,we can see ourselves reflected in them.

[tpe]

Well, maybe I overemphasized that, but I also didn't mean that it was predominantly maternal relationship! 

Ceertainly not!   

Still, the "materbnal" scenes are quite moving -- it's because it evokes something that we all identify and yearn for.

[tpe]

No,I wouldn't ever see their relationship as "maternal";neither as "paternal",preciselyˇ  Speaking seriously,in the sense that Jack is comforting a somehow anguished Ennis,or a tender Ennis is caring for a half slept Jack,we can see a kind of mother-child relationship in both scenes.We have talked about the DE in another thread,and we share the idea,more or less,that Ennis is giving Jack the love both of them needed in the way he remembered having it from his own mother.And,at the same time,he's receving also this same love by remembering his few good and tender childhood memories.And yes,as all of us has been or are parents or children of someone,we can see ourselves reflected in them.

You know, in the part of the SNIT after the first kiss and when Ennis places his head on Jack's chest -- the feeling is less erotic and frankly a bit sexless for me.  The over-arching feeling is that of tenderness.

I think the same can be said about the DE.  In this aspect, they are both very similar.

The rest of SNIT is most certainly very sensual.



 

[vedrana]

Ceertainly not!   

Still, the "materbnal" scenes are quite moving -- it's because it evokes something that we all identify and yearn for.

The "maternal" scenes are what makes their love so absorbing and (surprisingly) sexy!

[vedrana]

You know, in the part of the SNIT after the first kiss and when Ennis places his head on Jack's chest -- the feeling is less erotic and frankly a bit sexless for me.  The over-arching feeling is that of tenderness.

I think the same can be said about the DE.  In this aspect, they are both very similar.

The rest of SNIT is most certainly very sensual.

OMG! This is one of the most beautiful pics from the movie! 

I wouldn't call that part sexless (if you don't mind)... for me their whole relationship is the mixture of the most complex feelings and the sex/physical attraction. The prevalence can go to one side or the other, but for me is always the mixture, and that's what makes it so special.

I imagine the feeling in uneasy and scared Ennis when he leaned his face on Jack's chest and felt his skin.... ... sexless?? OMG! I can faint right now, don't mention him!

[myprivatejack]

You know, in the part of the SNIT after the first kiss and when Ennis places his head on Jack's chest -- the feeling is less erotic and frankly a bit sexless for me.  The over-arching feeling is that of tenderness.

I think the same can be said about the DE.  In this aspect, they are both very similar.

The rest of SNIT is most certainly very sensual.

Yes,I know what you mean...Although I wouldn't define it like "less erotic or sexless",in this very moment tenderness is,of course,what prevails.The way Jack tries,and gets to,win Ennis fears and little resistance,by making him feel wished but also safe; the way Ennis finds a kind of shelter in his lover's chest;the way Jack kisses gently Ennis forehead...Aawwwwˇ.
You,Loreen,are also right in that there're a whole lot of feelings and sensations in this moment,the same that in all their relationship along the years,and in that it's this mixture what make it so complex and,at the same time,so fascinating.But in this concrete moment,tenderness is all around them;the rest is,yes,rather erotic IMO.

[tpe]

OMG! This is one of the most beautiful pics from the movie! 

I wouldn't call that part sexless (if you don't mind)... for me their whole relationship is the mixture of the most complex feelings and the sex/physical attraction. The prevalence can go to one side or the other, but for me is always the mixture, and that's what makes it so special.

I imagine the feeling in uneasy and scared Ennis when he leaned his face on Jack's chest and felt his skin.... ... sexless?? OMG! I can faint right now, don't mention him!

Yes, I wouldn't call that picture truly sexless -- but some of us may also say the same thing about the DE, correct?  If you look at the picture without having scene the SNIT scene from the movie, there is a chance that you would think of it as something not really erotic, but something that really showed love. 

Would you think that there is a "maternal" quality to that picture -- as in "mother" and child?  It reminds me of certain paintings in that vein...

And also, I actually see Ennis's face as "trusting" more than uneasy or scared.  Does this somehow make sense to you?