Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*

[*Froggy*]

How long does it take this PBS to run its couse??? I can't stand it!! *laughing*

Who knows? Who cares...I love my PBS!!

[ethan]

Just when I thought I was beginning to get over this d*** movie, now you all point out these EXQUISITE details, and now I HAVE to go see it again! How long does it take this PBS to run its couse??? I can't stand it!! *laughing*

never enough..never enough  Gosh BBM is a movie worth studying every single details.

[jimnick]

Just when I thought I was beginning to get over this d*** movie, now you all point out these EXQUISITE details, and now I HAVE to go see it again! How long does it take this PBS to run its couse??? I can't stand it!! *laughing*

It's like Roy Orbison said:

How much is not enough how much is through
How long will I be getting over you
 
Till the heart caves in
Till the heart caves in
Till the heart caves in

Jim

[stephan]

Ang Lee's film takes a number of liberties with the story, apparently ; I haven't read it and different posts are not recommending it to me because I believe the second tent scene is Ennis's acceptance of his own desire. Everything in the film following the first tent scene implies questions. He's gone back to being a mumbler. He doesn't talk to Jack the way he used to. Then we come to Ennis sitting before the campfire and the most beautiful love scene in the world ! That's when he's thinking: I want this. There's no apology. That is, I've seen it in English and during this scene I am definitely not looking at the subtitles, but I don't think there were any. Huge sigh.
Stephan

[chameau]

Haw!  :-\

Ennis:  "I'm sorry"
Jack:  "it's alright, it's alright"

Sob!  :'( :'( :'(

[christie wood]

I too adore this scene, it is so beautiful because of the way Ennis becomes so vulnerable, even though he has made this decision to enter the tent to be with Jack.  But don't you just LOVE the way Ennis is - this awkward, reserved, character, barely able to look at Jack, looking anywhere but at Jack's face, so Jack has to take the lead, put his hand on Ennis's face (I love that bit too sooooo much) and then Ennis gives in to Jack when Jack kisses him.  Then when they lie down, Ennis is clinging on to Jack, not wanting to let go. 

I don't care if I'm obsessed, I just am so glad that I've got this place to be with others who are as obsessed with me.  I will never tire of analysing/discussing anything to do with this beautiful story, so bring it on!

[coguaro]

christe you told what I also think...
Ennis is always a stoic and close character; the "beans" story symbolize that... I think when Jack didnt want beans again and he refuses to eat beans while Ennis say that  he can continue to eat it. This  rapresents a general point of view in life! Jack dont want to force "adapt itself" to a situation which is not what he want... Ennis, adapting itself, accepting what is preconstituted (..maybe his future with Alma) go against his real feelings.
In the second tent scene finally Ennis let his feeling wins... this is a very important point which mean he take coknowledge..

coguaro

[christie wood]

apologies from my last post.  Realised I'd written "obsessed with me" when I should I have written "obsessed AS me".  Obviously, if you want to be obsessed with me, feel free, but I don't think anyone on this fourm has time to be obsessed with anyone else other than our gorgeous brokeback boys.

[bbmlover]

This movie takes the 1st place in my movie list pushing any other movie behind (there was none actually) . And the 2nd tent scene - i can watch it for rest of my life.  I'am too obsessed with this scene - trying to find out others' point of view. Many has amazed me. Like i never knew holding hat in some way - Ennis was in submission and what Jack was actually saying....etc. Well i guessed something else - during all my views - and after coming here - i realised i was totally wrong!!!. Jack's eyes when he was watching Ennis - mmmmm - no words to describe them. It is not only in 2nd tent scene....... throughout the movie - whenever Jack sees Ennis & when they close up on Jack - something happens inside me.
phooo I'am breathing heavy.

2nd tent scene is simply circling me like ghost.

[rane99]

Agree, agree, agree. That second tent scene, starting from Ennis by the fire is the most romantic love scene ever.  I have never reacted like this to a movie. The actors are so incredible. I can't say enough.

[manila_rocks]

Rane.  I get the impression you liked the movie 

[alicat]

I love the 2nd tent scene as well.  My favourite moment is when Jack is in the tent and Ennis reluctantly enters - and the shining light (maybe the shining eyes of love?) in Jack's eyes when he reaches up and holds Ennis's face.  I do not recall ever seeing a more romantic or touching love scene in a film ever, and believe me, I have watched many films - old romantic, black and white films and nowhere did I ever witness such a touching, 'slug in the guts' scene as that.  For that, Ang Lee, and Jake and Heath, should be credited. 

[chameau]

This movie takes the 1st place in my movie list pushing any other movie behind (there was none actually) . And the 2nd tent scene - i can watch it for rest of my life.  I'am too obsessed with this scene - trying to find out others' point of view. Many has amazed me. Like i never knew holding hat in some way - Ennis was in submission and what Jack was actually saying....etc. Well i guessed something else - during all my views - and after coming here - i realised i was totally wrong!!!. Jack's eyes when he was watching Ennis - mmmmm - no words to describe them. It is not only in 2nd tent scene....... throughout the movie - whenever Jack sees Ennis & when they close up on Jack - something happens inside me.
phooo I'am breathing heavy.

2nd tent scene is simply circling me like ghost.

Ditto

Haw!  :'(

[bbmlover]

This movie takes the 1st place in my movie list pushing any other movie behind (there was none actually) . And the 2nd tent scene - i can watch it for rest of my life.  I'am too obsessed with this scene - trying to find out others' point of view. Many has amazed me. Like i never knew holding hat in some way - Ennis was in submission and what Jack was actually saying....etc. Well i guessed something else - during all my views - and after coming here - i realised i was totally wrong!!!. Jack's eyes when he was watching Ennis - mmmmm - no words to describe them. It is not only in 2nd tent scene....... throughout the movie - whenever Jack sees Ennis & when they close up on Jack - something happens inside me.
phooo I'am breathing heavy.

2nd tent scene is simply circling me like ghost.

Ditto

Haw!  :'(

yeah.........these 2 souls are made for each other........ but they dont get to make it through rest of life. That is killing me............ I tried just too hard for these 2 guys to get together for rest of life............ i mean i have been visiting them (watching movie........).......... but damn..... it is not working. I dont know what else i can do. If only i could jump inside the screen.........

[jason]

christe you told what I also think...
Ennis is always a stoic and close character; the "beans" story symbolize that... I think when Jack didnt want beans again and he refuses to eat beans while Ennis say that  he can continue to eat it. This  rapresents a general point of view in life! Jack dont want to force "adapt itself" to a situation which is not what he want... Ennis, adapting itself, accepting what is preconstituted (..maybe his future with Alma) go against his real feelings.
In the second tent scene finally Ennis let his feeling wins... this is a very important point which mean he take coknowledge..

coguaro

ENNIS:  I'll stick with beans.
JACK: Well I won't.

Clever observation of the symbolic behaviors about the beans, coguaro.

You make me think about the second tent scene.  You're right, Ennis is letting himself into very deep water, where he hasn't been before. Letting his feelings dictate ...  Must have been frightened.  So Jack says repeatedly, "It's alright ..."

[jason]

I love the 2nd tent scene as well.  My favourite moment is when Jack is in the tent and Ennis reluctantly enters - and the shining light (maybe the shining eyes of love?) in Jack's eyes when he reaches up and holds Ennis's face.  I do not recall ever seeing a more romantic or touching love scene in a film ever, and believe me, I have watched many films - old romantic, black and white films and nowhere did I ever witness such a touching, 'slug in the guts' scene as that.  For that, Ang Lee, and Jake and Heath, should be credited. 

Alicat, rane, and others. You really express the whammy of this scene well.

Help!  Is this obsessing, or overanalytical, or what?  Why is the second tent scene so romantic?  Same actions as in other movies, nothing much different at all.  So why don't we get the same ol' ho-hum feeling??  Why?

You'd think two straight guys would make it so awkward it would be laughable.  And what about all those folks who find such scenes distasteful?  Wonder how they react--if some get can get it, see the greater humanity of two people being so tender? 

[christie wood]

It is amazing how the 2nd tent scene has affected us so much, but I agree, I think it is probably one of the most romantic love scenes I've ever seen.  I think, for me, it comes down to the chemistry between Ennis and Jack, an unspoken chemistry up until this point, and, the way Ennis is, so vulnerable, so scared, but so wanting to be with Jack, but unsure of what to do, how to be. And when Jack puts his hand on Ennis's arm and looks into his eyes, forcing Ennis to look at him - that just makes me swoon.  And then when Jack touches Ennis's face and kisses him - it's so beautiful and natural and I never want it to stop!  God, I'm having trouble concentrating on anything, especially when we get talking about this scene!  I know there are many other amazing and fantastic scenes in this film, but somehow this one transends because of it shows us the true nature of their love finally being realised.  Notice how firmly Ennis keeps hold of Jack when they lie down - it's like, for him, this is it, this is real, and I want this, and I don't want to ever let you go.  Heartbreaking and gorgeous all at the same time.

I also wonder if this scene was rehearsed or if they just went with the flow?  I'd be interested to hear what others think about that.

[shieldmaid]

It is amazing how the 2nd tent scene has affected us so much, but I agree, I think it is probably one of the most romantic love scenes I've ever seen.  I think, for me, it comes down to the chemistry between Ennis and Jack, an unspoken chemistry up until this point, and, the way Ennis is, so vulnerable, so scared, but so wanting to be with Jack, but unsure of what to do, how to be. And when Jack puts his hand on Ennis's arm and looks into his eyes, forcing Ennis to look at him - that just makes me swoon.  And then when Jack touches Ennis's face and kisses him - it's so beautiful and natural and I never want it to stop!  God, I'm having trouble concentrating on anything, especially when we get talking about this scene!  I know there are many other amazing and fantastic scenes in this film, but somehow this one transends because of it shows us the true nature of their love finally being realised.  Notice how firmly Ennis keeps hold of Jack when they lie down - it's like, for him, this is it, this is real, and I want this, and I don't want to ever let you go.  Heartbreaking and gorgeous all at the same time.

I also wonder if this scene was rehearsed or if they just went with the flow?  I'd be interested to hear what others think about that.

christie, I have to say that this is a deeply fascinating topic.  Ledger has said in several interviews that he had a much easier time with this scene than Gyllenhaal did, because he was able to draw on his own discomfort and vulnerability.  I prefer to think that they improvised here--Jack draws Ennis in slowly and lovingly, Ennis responds hesitantly at first, but then clings to him like a man drowning.  Ennis seems to need Jack almost more than Jack needs him here . . . .  he holds onto him, strokes his face, responds to the kisses a bit awkwardly but tenderly.  Then when Jack rolls on top of him, he holds onto Jack's arms gently, tilting his head back.  Ahhh . . . .

[christie wood]

Hi Shieldmaid, love that description of Ennis.....like a man drowning.....when he's lying down with Jack.  And I see what you mean about Ennis needing Jack more in this scene than in others.  It's so beautifully filmed, and acted, but it also seems to me that this was probably a scene they decided to see how it went, instead of constant rehearsals.

I've seen interviews with Heath Ledger describing how he wanted to get across Ennis's discomfort and vulnerability, and therefore these kinds of scenes would be far easier for him. I've also read an interview with Jake that said he found this scene the hardest to do, because he had to be the one to draw Ennis in, and take the lead, and he found that quite diffiuclt.  Really interesting to know that that's how the two leads saw that scene.

Love your descriptions of that scene though.....Ennis holding on to Jack, stroking his face, responding to kisses, unsure but wanting, never wanting to let go.  Swoon.

[shieldmaid]

christie,  all I can say is: need my DVD!!    I am constantly reliving the viewing of that all-too-brief scene in my mind.  The tenderness of that scene is unsurpassed.  I was trying to explain my love for this movie to my husband, and that's what I kept coming back to: they get so little time together that these moments of tenderness are supersaturated with emotion.  "I'm sorry."  "it's all right . . . it's all right."  Kiss--clutch--swoon.

[christie wood]

I SO need the DVD too, just so I can watch it as many times as I like and freeze frame any scenes I like.....I so cannot wait.

You say you tried to explain it to your husband....does he get it?  I'm married too, but unfortunately my husband does just not get it.  I've tried to expain the powerful effect it's had on me, but he thinks I'm just mad.  His indifference to it makes me so angry, but there's not a lot you can do.  I take it you didn't go to see it with your husband?  Is that because you didn't think he'd get it?  And if so, were you right?

I've heard that the DVD will be out in April (in the UK anyway), but a little later in the US, which does't seem to make sense seeing as it's an American film.  Oh, but I'm not complaining as I'm in the UK!  Yay for DVD......hurry hurry.  Do you think there will be lots of extra special features, such as interviews, outtakes, deleted scenes.....I so, so hope so.

Sorry, I'm rambling, but you know, since finding this forum, I can't seem to concentrate on anything else.  Are you the same?

[ethan]

You say you tried to explain it to your husband....does he get it?  I'm married too, but unfortunately my husband does just not get it.  I've tried to expain the powerful effect it's had on me, but he thinks I'm just mad.  His indifference to it makes me so angry, but there's not a lot you can do.  I take it you didn't go to see it with your husband?  Is that because you didn't think he'd get it?  And if so, were you right?

Sorry, I'm rambling, but you know, since finding this forum, I can't seem to concentrate on anything else.  Are you the same?

I guess this just doesn't happen to heterosexual couples. I tried to explain to my partner and he does not get it either. He watched it once with me and that is it. I have gone to see it 4 times more either by myself or with friends.

The forum is now my life -- but of course part of the reason is because I am the administrator.

[shieldmaid]

I SO need the DVD too, just so I can watch it as many times as I like and freeze frame any scenes I like.....I so cannot wait.

You say you tried to explain it to your husband....does he get it?  I'm married too, but unfortunately my husband does just not get it.  I've tried to expain the powerful effect it's had on me, but he thinks I'm just mad.  His indifference to it makes me so angry, but there's not a lot you can do.  I take it you didn't go to see it with your husband?  Is that because you didn't think he'd get it?  And if so, were you right?

I've heard that the DVD will be out in April (in the UK anyway), but a little later in the US, which does't seem to make sense seeing as it's an American film.  Oh, but I'm not complaining as I'm in the UK!  Yay for DVD......hurry hurry.  Do you think there will be lots of extra special features, such as interviews, outtakes, deleted scenes.....I so, so hope so.

Sorry, I'm rambling, but you know, since finding this forum, I can't seem to concentrate on anything else.  Are you the same?

christie,  I did go see it with my husband twice out of the three times I've seen it so far. The first time we were 15 minutes late (argh!), and he enjoyed it but said he didn't quite see what the big deal was--he thought it was good but not amazing. So then I went to see it again by myself, savoring every moment and coming home in a daze of melancholy love.  My birthday was this past Sunday, so he took me to it again and actually said he liked it better this time--thought the different parts of the story fit together more coherently.  I wouldn't exactly say that he *understands* my obsession, but he's been very kind about it.  He sees my constant presence on this board as just another one of my interests, akin to music or the like.    I see it somewhat differently, of course . . . .  and am so glad I can get on here and talk with others, like you, who share in the beauty of this film.

Did I mention that I should be working right now??

[christie wood]

You're so lucky to have a husband who wants to go and see the film, I could not even get my husband that far!

You say you went to see the film the second time by yourself, did you not feel strange?  I want to go and see it again but am having trouble finding someone to go with me, so may have to resort to going by myself?

anyway, sorry, going off topic.  Can you help me quickly?  You know the reunion scene where Jack and Ennis kiss passionately?  I've seen that on this forum somewhere but can't find it now.  I need to see it and wonder if you (or anyone else can lead me to it?).  Is it on the logo documentary?

By the way, I should be working too!

[cybernaut]

Hey guys! Have some questions:

1) In the first love scene in the tent, after Ennis realised that he was ... ehm, exploited by slutty Jack, he struggled as Jack held him by his shoulders. Ennis mumbled something that I couldn't make out clearly, what did he say?

2) I didn't hear what Ennis said when he entered the tent. If he said, "I am sorry", what was he sorry about? I can only guess that he wanted Jack to comfort him. Its not a "man's thing" to embrace another man, so I figured it was his way of saying he needed some help.

But what I didn't understand was Jack was already half-naked in the tent that night while it was all cold and freezing tits the previous night. I was like ha... Ennis is going to be exploited again as he entered the tent. No doubt it was beautiful but I had the feeling that Jack ~was~ waiting for Ennis to come in ~willingly~ as if it was a matter of time.  :o

Jack! I underestimated you little son of a bitch!  :D

[shieldmaid]

You're so lucky to have a husband who wants to go and see the film, I could not even get my husband that far!

You say you went to see the film the second time by yourself, did you not feel strange?  I want to go and see it again but am having trouble finding someone to go with me, so may have to resort to going by myself?

anyway, sorry, going off topic.  Can you help me quickly?  You know the reunion scene where Jack and Ennis kiss passionately?  I've seen that on this forum somewhere but can't find it now.  I need to see it and wonder if you (or anyone else can lead me to it?).  Is it on the logo documentary?

By the way, I should be working too!

christie, you can see that reunion on the logo documentary, which is linked in the "Photos and Trailers" forum.  If you check out some people's signature files in the posts on "Event Appearance Photos" (I think Sanne's is one) under "Photos and Trailers," you can also see a brief clip there.  Not that I've spent hours watching these brief moments wistfully . . . 

[rabjr1]

Remember the story came first and in the story Ennis wakes up with "Jack butted against him; without saying anything about it both knew how it would go for the rest of the summer, sheep be damned"

I think that that pretty much says that this thing would continue at least for the rest of the summer.  The 2nd tent scene had a questionable preamble that is not depicted in the story.  It does lend some confusion on the developement of their relationship.  Does it stat in th efirst tent scene or the second?  What came first?

[camom]

You're so lucky to have a husband who wants to go and see the film, I could not even get my husband that far!

You say you went to see the film the second time by yourself, did you not feel strange?  I want to go and see it again but am having trouble finding someone to go with me, so may have to resort to going by myself?

anyway, sorry, going off topic.  Can you help me quickly?  You know the reunion scene where Jack and Ennis kiss passionately?  I've seen that on this forum somewhere but can't find it now.  I need to see it and wonder if you (or anyone else can lead me to it?).  Is it on the logo documentary?

By the way, I should be working too!

My husband went to see it the first time with me.  He really liked it--said it was the Best Picture, for sure--but I wouldn't be able to get him to go multiple times.  He's willing to wait for the DVD, but the thought of never seeing it again on a big screen keeps sending me back.  I never thought I would go to a movie by myself, let alone 3 times (and counting, lol) but to be honest, the experience is more intense when you're by yourself.  So try it!

camom

[Italian_Dude]

this scene is not in th eoriginal story in the screen play all Jack says to Ennis is "It's all right....It's all  right."

NO sorry from Ennis.

Again we make of it what is in our own minds (hearts)  What would we do?   

Actually YES there is a sorry from Ennis

Ennis says

"I'm sorry.. I'm sorry"  to Jack

and THEN Jack responds with "It's alright"

I seen the movie twice in theatres, and I have my own copy on my computer, I held the speaker to my ear, and I heard,

"I'm sorry.. I'm sorry"
 
THEN Jack nods his head and says "It's all right"

When Ennis says "I'm sorry ... I'm sorry" his lips do not move, its like whispered but can be heard if you listen.

[rabjr1]

this scene is not in th eoriginal story in the screen play all Jack says to Ennis is "It's all right....It's all  right."

NO sorry from Ennis.

Again we make of it what is in our own minds (hearts)  What would we do?   

Actually YES there is a sorry from Ennis

Ennis says

"I'm sorry.. I'm sorry"  to Jack

and THEN Jack responds with "It's alright"

I seen the movie twice in theatres, and I have my own copy on my computer, I held the speaker to my ear, and I heard,

"I'm sorry.. I'm sorry"
 
THEN Jack nods his head and says "It's all right"

When Ennis says "I'm sorry ... I'm sorry" his lips do not move, its like whispered but can be heard if you listen.

another one of those little thngs that are in the film but not directly written in the story.  And I did see the movie again and caught something - have constant ringing in my ears - that and the voices in my head  sometimes interfer with the dialogue.

I do intend to see the movie again not to "fact check' other's opinions but to (1)  enjoy the movie  and (2) to watch with a new insight provided me by the people wiritting to this forum.