Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*

[tpe]

Yes,I know what you mean...Although I wouldn't define it like "less erotic or sexless",in this very moment tenderness is,of course,what prevails.The way Jack tries,and gets to,win Ennis fears and little resistance,by making him feel wished but also safe; the way Ennis finds a kind of shelter in his lover's chest;the way Jack kisses gently Ennis forehead...Aawwww¡.
You,Loreen,are also right in that there're a whole lot of feelings and sensations in this moment,the same that in all their relationship along the years,and in that it's this mixture what make it so complex and,at the same time,so fascinating.But in this concrete moment,tenderness is all around them;the rest is,yes,rather erotic IMO.

Well, I think "tenderness" is indeed the best word to describe the feelings in that picture.  To me, it is less about sex and more about empathy and tru affection.  There is indeed a "sheltering" quality to the picture.  But somehow, I see less of sex -- probably easier to grasp if we look at the picture OUTSIDE the context of SNIT, which we all know.  If we can imagine seeing this picture without seeing the movie, some of us may probably see in it something similar to a mother and a sleeping child.

[vedrana]

Yes, I wouldn't call that picture truly sexless -- but some of us may also say the same thing about the DE, correct?  If you look at the picture without having scene the SNIT scene from the movie, there is a chance that you would think of it as something not really erotic, but something that really showed love. 

Would you think that there is a "maternal" quality to that picture -- as in "mother" and child?  It reminds me of certain paintings in that vein...

And also, I actually see Ennis's face as "trusting" more than uneasy or scared.  Does this somehow make sense to you?

Hm... I think that DE was pretty much sexless as they didn't touch there at all... maybe it's not the best indicator, but gives me almost completely spiritual impression.

I agree that the picture without the previous and later of SNIT would seem rather sexless and "mother and child" alike, but not the motion picture. What I mean is that if we capture a moment it is one thing, but only a few second of their commotion shows lust and passion. IMO!

Still, I do agree (which I didn't before ) that their mother-child relationship is very emphasized there and it is so beautiful, and mixed with their youth passion is unspeakably moving!

As for Ennis- well, yes! "Trusting" would also be a proper word for it. What I wanted to express was his discomfort of making love for the first time... it is a bit scary (like the birdie! ), especially in the arms of man...

[tpe]

Hm... I think that DE was pretty much sexless as they didn't touch there at all... maybe it's not the best indicator, but gives me almost completely spiritual impression.

I agree that the picture without the previous and later of SNIT would seem rather sexless and "mother and child" alike, but not the motion picture. What I mean is that if we capture a moment it is one thing, but only a few second of their commotion shows lust and passion. IMO!

Still, I do agree (which I didn't before ) that their mother-child relationship is very emphasized there and it is so beautiful, and mixed with their youth passion is unspeakably moving!

As for Ennis- well, yes! "Trusting" would also be a proper word for it. What I wanted to express was his discomfort of making love for the first time... it is a bit scary (like the birdie! ), especially in the arms of man...

That is quite right -- SNIT is certainly very sexy -- but beautifully so. 

We see Ennis's discomfort in his eyes and awkwardness the moment he enters the tent.  Brilliantly acted, I must say.  You can really say that he looks almost like a virgin about to make love for the very first time.  I wouldn't exactly call FNIT "making love", you know... 

[myprivatejack]

I think that what makes SNIT scene so beautiful this mixture of feelings they show and of sensations we can have by seeing it: both tenderness and lust,protection and surrender,sexy and sexless at the same time...It's IMO a rather sexy scene but shaded with this "maternal" sense of Jack calming Ennis fears,like a mother caring for her child when he's afraid by night and he can't sleep.It's,I repeat,all this mixture of feelings showed and provoked what gives it its beauty.

[tpe]

I think that what makes SNIT scene so beautiful this mixture of feelings they show and of sensations we can have by seeing it: both tenderness and lust,protection and surrender,sexy and sexless at the same time...It's IMO a rather sexy scene but shaded with this "maternal" sense of Jack calming Ennis fears,like a mother caring for her child when he's afraid by night and he can't sleep.It's,I repeat,all this mixture of feelings showed and provoked what gives it its beauty.

I have no doubt that part of Ennis's motivation to enter the tent was physical desire/lust.  I had wondered how much of it was really this.  I suspect that part of the motivation was also contriteness -- to show Jack that he was sorry, and that he really cared for him.  And perhaps part of it was also an element of curiosity?  That he put himself in jack's hands and see where it would go from there?  It was certainly an education for Ennis --- to make love.

[vedrana]

That is quite right -- SNIT is certainly very sexy -- but beautifully so. 

We see Ennis's discomfort in his eyes and awkwardness the moment he enters the tent.  Brilliantly acted, I must say.  You can really say that he looks almost like a virgin about to make love for the very first time.  I wouldn't exactly call FNIT "making love", you know... 

Oh yes! FNIT was 1,2,3 and over... but SNIT was the occasion when all went out - the cards were "on the table"! They had enough time to show- yes I want this and I want you, and this means a world to me!

Jack having no shirt on was just too sexy for that matter,that it made all the experience much more sensual and erotic!

[vedrana]

I have no doubt that part of Ennis's motivation to enter the tent was physical desire/lust.  I had wondered how much of it was really this.  I suspect that part of the motivation was also contriteness -- to show Jack that he was sorry, and that he really cared for him.  And perhaps part of it was also an element of curiosity?  That he put himself in jack's hands and see where it would go from there?  It was certainly an education for Ennis --- to make love.

I like this post! 

Maybe even not Ennis was aware of his reasons, but I think that you're right here!

[tpe]

Oh yes! FNIT was 1,2,3 and over... but SNIT was the occasion when all went out - the cards were "on the table"! They had enough time to show- yes I want this and I want you, and this means a world to me!

Jack having no shirt on was just too sexy for that matter,that it made all the experience much more sensual and erotic!

It was like starting all over again -- but this time, the right way. 

It is interesting to compare and contrast Ennis's entry into the tent at FNIT and the subsequent entry at SNIT.  They mirror exactly what was to come right after.  The first was abrupt and unpremediatated, while the other was meek/gentle/tender and thought-out.

And yes, that was a very sensual touch -- although I think the story mentioned that he was naked!

[tpe]

I like this post! 

Maybe even not Ennis was aware of his reasons, but I think that you're right here!

Yes, in spite of the fact that Ennis had thought this over, I don't think he entirely knew his own reasons.  This is the element of surrender -- to be able to put oneself in somebody's hands and trust him to do the rest.

[vedrana]

It was like starting all over again -- but this time, the right way. 

It is interesting to compare and contrast Ennis's entry into the tent at FNIT and the subsequent entry at SNIT.  They mirror exactly what was to come right after.  The first was abrupt and unpremediatated, while the other was meek/gentle/tender and thought-out.

And yes, that was a very sensual touch -- although I think the story mentioned that he was naked!

I believe that when we put all together, the details in the movie (e.g. the relation of FNIT and SNIT) were so perfectly arranged, that it all touched our hearts and made us slaves to this movie... well at least I speak for myself. (

Hm... I don't think that SNIT even exists in SS! Only FNIT. But, either way "naked" would make things even hotter... as expected!

[tpe]

I believe that when we put all together, the details in the movie (e.g. the relation of FNIT and SNIT) were so perfectly arranged, that it all touched our hearts and made us slaves to this movie... well at least I speak for myself. (

Hm... I don't think that SNIT even exists in SS! Only FNIT. But, either way "naked" would make things even hotter... as expected!

Sorry, when I said story, I meant SCREENPLAY!     I sometimes forget that we have 3 source groups here:  2 versions of the story, various versions of the screenplay, and the movie, with the deleted scenes.

In the published screenplay, the directive is that Jack is naked when Ennis enters the tent.

And yes, this scene is a perfect example of how carefully thought out BBM is in terms of scenes that echo each other.  Some bookends are very famous, indeed.  But some I think are more subtle. 

The comparisons one can readily make with Ennis's entry in FNIT and SNIT is I think quite subtle.  One barely notices it, when you view them in sequence. 

[vedrana]

Sorry, when I said story, I meant SCREENPLAY!     I sometimes forget that we have 3 source groups here:  2 versions of the story, various versions of the screenplay, and the movie, with the deleted scenes.

In the published screenplay, the directive is that Jack is naked when Ennis enters the tent.

And yes, this scene is a perfect example of how carefully thought out BBM is in terms of scenes that echo each other.  Some bookends are very famous, indeed.  But some I think are more subtle. 

The comparisons one can readily make with Ennis's entry in FNIT and SNIT is I think quite subtle.  One barely notices it, when you view them in sequence. 

 ^^) ^^) ^^) And who change that??  ^^)

  I shouldn't think about that... I just shouldn't...

It is not always necessary for us to be aware of the details, but they reaches us nevertheless. 

[tpe]

^^) ^^) ^^) And who change that??  ^^)

  I shouldn't think about that... I just shouldn't...

It is not always necessary for us to be aware of the details, but they reaches us nevertheless. 

And why not think about it?  It is a rather yummy detail.      

Well, they didn't follow the directive.  It probably would have been awkward for our actors, perhaps?  But I think shirtless was fine and had the right "effect" for Ennis's entry. 

[vedrana]

And why not think about it?  It is a rather yummy detail.      

Well, they didn't follow the directive.  It probably would have been awkward for our actors, perhaps?  But I think shirtless was fine and had the right "effect" for Ennis's entry. 

Yup! It would be too awkward for them. Shirtless was enough... but now when you mentioned it (and I didn't know that information before) I'd kind of liked if the obeyed! 

 

[atalley]

I love the tenderness that Jack shows Ennis in SNIT...& the hunger that Ennis shows wanting to explore all of Jack's body.  So sexy.

[babytammy7]

Those are the right words, Annita: tenderness and hunger. 

Thank you, babe. 

[tpe]

Yup! It would be too awkward for them. Shirtless was enough... but now when you mentioned it (and I didn't know that information before) I'd kind of liked if the obeyed! 

 

I bet you would have preferred Ennis to have entered the tent neatly undressed!      

Yes, I think shirtless was definitely enough to set the tone...

[tpe]

I love the tenderness that Jack shows Ennis in SNIT...& the hunger that Ennis shows wanting to explore all of Jack's body.  So sexy.

There was definitely a hunger, no?  Or thirst?  The effect is similar to a desert traveller taking a drink of water...

 

[vedrana]

I bet you would have preferred Ennis to have entered the tent neatly undressed!      

Yes, I think shirtless was definitely enough to set the tone...

  Yup! Ennis!.... and Jack!.... and Ennis!....

Ok, now I am being naughty (totally unlike myself  ), but the intimacy (emotional and physical) and the innocent of two young men  (and tenderness as Atalley said) is what counts and what made SNIT so divinely attractive!

[myprivatejack]

Yup! Ennis!.... and Jack!.... and Ennis!....

Ok, now I am being naughty (totally unlike myself  ), but the intimacy (emotional and physical) and the innocent of two young men  (and tenderness as Atalley said) is what counts and what made SNIT so divinely attractive!

  Well,I wouldn't be so sure that ir's totally unlike yourself...

Coming back to the topic,yes,I think it's a mixture of feelings and sensations what makes SNIT really touching.We can see some lust and wish,but also a sense of almost protection,tenderness,and need of one another.Jack's sexual experience altogether with Ennis innocence,but both emotionally linked...Tender and sexy at the same time...yummy¡ 

[vedrana]

Well,I wouldn't be so sure that ir's totally unlike yourself...

Coming back to the topic,yes,I think it's a mixture of feelings and sensations what makes SNIT really touching.We can see some lust and wish,but also a sense of almost protection,tenderness,and need of one another.Jack's sexual experience altogether with Ennis innocence,but both emotionally linked...Tender and sexy at the same time...yummy¡ 

Did you just say YUMMY?! 

OK, then you're ready for Jake's pic thread!

 

[tpe]

Well,I wouldn't be so sure that ir's totally unlike yourself...

Coming back to the topic,yes,I think it's a mixture of feelings and sensations what makes SNIT really touching.We can see some lust and wish,but also a sense of almost protection,tenderness,and need of one another.Jack's sexual experience altogether with Ennis innocence,but both emotionally linked...Tender and sexy at the same time...yummy¡ 

What I like most of all is the tenderness of it all.  Lust takes a back seat for me -- there are certainly more explicit and "yummy" scenes in other movies -- but this one just has the perfect balance of restraint, tenderness, and sensuality.

[tpe]

What I like most of all is the tenderness of it all.  Lust takes a back seet for me -- there are certainly more explicit and "yummy" scenes in other movies -- but this one just has the perfect balance of restraint, tenderness, and sensuality.

Did you just say YUMMY?! 

OK, then you're ready for Jake's pic thread!

 

Yes, MPJ said YUMMY!      

[vedrana]

What I like most of all is the tenderness of it all.  Lust takes a back seat for me -- there are certainly more explicit and "yummy" scenes in other movies -- but this one just has the perfect balance of restraint, tenderness, and sensuality.

If I could chose between all those "yummy" scenes and SNIT, I wouldn't doubt a second!

Hope that you don't have to ask....

[myprivatejack]

Did you just say YUMMY?! 

OK, then you're ready for Jake's pic thread!

 

Yes,I said "YUMMY"¡  But I'm afraid I'm ready for Jake's thread and whatever from a loooong time ¡.

[myprivatejack]

What I like most of all is the tenderness of it all.  Lust takes a back seat for me -- there are certainly more explicit and "yummy" scenes in other movies -- but this one just has the perfect balance of restraint, tenderness, and sensuality.

I can't really add anything else to that; it's a well balanced scene that shows love above any other feeling.

[tpe]

Do you think that there was an element of FEAR when Ennis entered the tent.  Would it be out of line to say that we also see a hint of fear?

[myprivatejack]

Do you think that there was an element of FEAR when Ennis entered the tent.  Would it be out of line to say that we also see a hint of fear?

Well,we could call it "fear" somehow,why not?; as a matter of fact,there's always a little-or a lot...-of fear against the unknown.And it's clear that Ennis was going to cross a door that led to the unknown,to some unknown feelings and sensations that attracted him,but at the same time he refused and feared.
Sometimes,by the way,I have thought that Ennis feared himself,feared Jack also for what he made him feel,and feared his mixed emotions.Some mixed emotions that are clearer in SNIT than in any other scene,maybe; so,yup,he was a little afraid of this new "adventure" he was going to begin in Jack's arms.

[tpe]

Well,we could call it "fear" somehow,why not?; as a matter of fact,there's always a little-or a lot...-of fear against the unknown.And it's clear that Ennis was going to cross a door that led to the unknown,to some unknown feelings and sensations that attracted him,but at the same time he refused and feared.
Sometimes,by the way,I have thought that Ennis feared himself,feared Jack also for what he made him feel,and feared his mixed emotions.Some mixed emotions that are clearer in SNIT than in any other scene,maybe; so,yup,he was a little afraid of this new "adventure" he was going to begin in Jack's arms.

In a sense, I think it was the "unknown from within".  I think he pretty much expected what was to happen when he entered the tent -- but he was certainly unsure how he himself would react to all this.  It's part of the inner conflict -- a part of him that he had never explored before and was taking the first tentative steps of knowing...

[myprivatejack]

In a sense, I think it was the "unknown from within".  I think he pretty much expected what was to happen when he entered the tent -- but he was certainly unsure how he himself would react to all this.  It's part of the inner conflict -- a part of him that he had never explored before and was taking the first tentative steps of knowing...

Oh,of course,the unknown was within Ennis himself,doubtless...When I was talking about "fear to the unknown",I meant that,even if he knew was was going to happen when he had entered the tent,there was something inside him that refused it and,even,was doubtful about how he and Jack would react,as you say.But,IMO,more than in these concrete moments,in the following days,the consequences that this was going to have in them and how he'd lived having explored this side of him that he wished,refused,loved and hated at the same time.