Topic: Did Lureen know?

[queen_of_the_road]

Personally, I think that she didn't know until Ennis says "We was herding sheep on Brokeback one summer back in '63". Because until then she seems pretty cool like she had already recovered a little. But she starts crying a little and I think that she realizes that Jack's heart never really belonged to her. I think that must be quite hard to take. And about the wishes and the ashes, I think it's right what a lot of people said here, that his wish almost came true with Randall coming with Jack.

[tpe]

Personally, I think that she didn't know until Ennis says "We was herding sheep on Brokeback one summer back in '63". Because until then she seems pretty cool like she had already recovered a little. But she starts crying a little and I think that she realizes that Jack's heart never really belonged to her. I think that must be quite hard to take. And about the wishes and the ashes, I think it's right what a lot of people said here, that his wish almost came true with Randall coming with Jack.

Welcome queen_of_the_road.  Beautiful first post.

I think before Ennis says "We was herding sheep on Brokeback one summer back in '63", Lureen knew about Jack consorting with other men.  But I agree that it was only when Ennis said this that Lureen realized who Ennis was.

[welshwitch]

When in a more cynical mood 9 ie nearly always) I wonder if Lureen suspected about Jack and noticed something with Randall but it suited her to have Jack involved with someone else, either because it gave her a hold over him or because it rekieved her of his attentions?

OK, I'm a cynical wrinkly.

[tpe]

When in a more cynical mood 9 ie nearly always) I wonder if Lureen suspected about Jack and noticed something with Randall but it suited her to have Jack involved with someone else, either because it gave her a hold over him or because it rekieved her of his attentions?

OK, I'm a cynical wrinkly.

Yes, welshwitch, quite cynical of you. 

Perhaps.  Lureen was quite pragmatic.  And calculating.

[welshwitch]

and people who are cynical and calculating make use of things and people. Jack was very convenient for Lureen in a number of ways, not least the fact that he was the only one au fait wuth the new more complicated machines, so if she'd made waves and lost him, they'd have been out a salesman, with no-one else able to do the job and who on earth from the outside would want to work for LD? Or Lureen for that matter?

[WyMe]

I don't think it would take Lureen long to move on after Jack's death.  She only got upset in her phone call with Ennis when she realised the significance of Brokeback.  I don't want this to sound too hard on her, but I can see her hiring a good-looking new salesman and ...

[jesseanne21]

I don't think it would take Lureen long to move on after Jack's death.  She only got upset in her phone call with Ennis when she realised the significance of Brokeback.  I don't want this to sound too hard on her, but I can see her hiring a good-looking new salesman and ...

if she hadn't already replaced Jack before he died

[WyMe]

Yes, good point, it would have suited them both.

[welshwitch]

And Jack could hardly have objected, even had he cared, which, from what he said to Ennis on the last trip, he didn't. that " we could do it on the phone" comment is very telling - it suggests how little real contact there was between them and almsot hints that Jack is more upset about this than Lureen is. IMO whether she knew or not is to a degree irrelevant; she's just stopped caring about him.

[Patriot1]

IMO whether she knew or not is to a degree irrelevant; she's just stopped caring about him.

Perhaps this could be an entire thread in itself but did she ever really care about him?  I saw nothing in the movie that made me feel she really loved him.

Alma showed she loved Ennis. She frolicked with Ennis on the tobaggon run. She cuddled with him in the bedroom. She had "regular" sex with him. They went to the fireworks together. There were numerous instances in the movie which showed Alma loved Ennis.

Not true with Lureen and Jack. Only time we saw them intimate was in the back seat of the car and she was bound and determined to get pregnant. She even stopped to ask if she was going too fast. She was in a hurry to get pregnant.

So I ask again, did she ever really care about him?

[jesseanne21]

And Jack could hardly have objected, even had he cared, which, from what he said to Ennis on the last trip, he didn't. that " we could do it on the phone" comment is very telling - it suggests how little real contact there was between them and almsot hints that Jack is more upset about this than Lureen is. IMO whether she knew or not is to a degree irrelevant; she's just stopped caring about him.

I don't think that she just stopped caring about him, I think they stopped caring about each other.  I think Lureen turned to her work and made that her lover because she could not get any real contact with Jack.

Lureen pursued Jack and she was just convenient for him.  I think at some point she may have realized that.

 *o)I remember when I was young, my grandmother giving advice about men to one of her daughters.  She cautioned her to not chase after some guy, because she might think that she was "Miss Right" and to him she just be "Miss Right Now." 

I think Lureen realized that she was just a substitute to Jack and when she spoke to Ennis after Jack's death she realized who she was substiituting for.

[tpe]

IMO whether she knew or not is to a degree irrelevant; she's just stopped caring about him.

Perhaps this could be an entire thread in itself but did she ever really care about him?  I saw nothing in the movie that made me feel she really loved him.

Alma showed she loved Ennis. She frolicked with Ennis on the tobaggon run. She cuddled with him in the bedroom. She had "regular" sex with him. They went to the fireworks together. There were numerous instances in the movie which showed Alma loved Ennis.

Not true with Lureen and Jack. Only time we saw them intimate was in the back seat of the car and she was bound and determined to get pregnant. She even stopped to ask if she was going too fast. She was in a hurry to get pregnant.

So I ask again, did she ever really care about him?

Patriot1, we are in need of a fresh new topic anyway.  Care to start a thread on this one?  I think it is interesting.

[Patriot1]

IMO whether she knew or not is to a degree irrelevant; she's just stopped caring about him.

Perhaps this could be an entire thread in itself but did she ever really care about him?  I saw nothing in the movie that made me feel she really loved him.

Alma showed she loved Ennis. She frolicked with Ennis on the tobaggon run. She cuddled with him in the bedroom. She had "regular" sex with him. They went to the fireworks together. There were numerous instances in the movie which showed Alma loved Ennis.

Not true with Lureen and Jack. Only time we saw them intimate was in the back seat of the car and she was bound and determined to get pregnant. She even stopped to ask if she was going too fast. She was in a hurry to get pregnant.

So I ask again, did she ever really care about him?

Patriot1, we are in need of a fresh new topic anyway.  Care to start a thread on this one?  I think it is interesting.

Ok

[jesseanne21]

There are two separate threads: 1) Oprah's Question:  Did Lureen Know and 2) Did Lureen Know that question whether  Lureen knew about the relationship between Jack and Ennis.

My question is:  Did Lureen know that Jack was gay before he died / was killed?  It's clear to me that she realized Ennis' significance to Jack when she spoke to Ennis on the phone AFTER Jack's death, but was she aware that Jack was gay before his death? 

[Patriot1]

There are two separate threads: 1) Oprah's Question:  Did Lureen Know and 2) Did Lureen Know that question whether  Lureen knew about the relationship between Jack and Ennis.

My question is:  Did Lureen know that Jack was gay before he died / was killed?  It's clear to me that she realized Ennis' significance to Jack when she spoke to Ennis on the phone AFTER Jack's death, but was she aware that Jack was gay before his death? 

As I stated in both of the above threads, I do not believe so. I think she was so into the business she couldn't have cared less what Jack was doing.  I think that is why and how they managed to stay together so long.

[tpe]

There are two separate threads: 1) Oprah's Question:  Did Lureen Know and 2) Did Lureen Know that question whether  Lureen knew about the relationship between Jack and Ennis.

My question is:  Did Lureen know that Jack was gay before he died / was killed?  It's clear to me that she realized Ennis' significance to Jack when she spoke to Ennis on the phone AFTER Jack's death, but was she aware that Jack was gay before his death? 

As I stated in both of the above threads, I do not believe so. I think she was so into the business she couldn't have cared less what Jack was doing.  I think that is why and how they managed to stay together so long.

Not so sure if there is sufficient difference in the current topic to distinguish this from the other threads, but if we are to focus on knowledge about Jack's "gayness" (assuming he is), then I would agree with Patriot1 and say: no.  Perhaps she finally realized this when Randal and Jack became more involved.

[welshwitch]

This reminds me about that thing about " known knowns and known unknowns and unknown unknowns"

I reckon whatever it was about Jack that Lureen didn;t know was a known unknown to her, and one she didn;t delve into. She was clearly more irritated by the impact his absence would have on the business, and by the amount of driving he was going to do, than interested in the reasons for his going.

There are, I think, things about which you choose not to ask, things you choose to ignore, and that's what I think this whole area might have been to Lureen.

"Don't ask, don't tell"?

[Mahogany]

She didn't knew anything.
That's the most honest conversation in the entire movie. No lies were told.

Sorry for those who didn't get it even after 9 years, keep insisting that Lureen knew and Jack was murdered by homophobes.