Author Topic: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?  (Read 25780 times)

Offline manila_rocks

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Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« on: Jan 20, 2006, 01:34 AM »
I can't help but think the item being beaten/washed in the river were Jack's undies.

Didn't the river scene happen AFTER their "first time"?     ummmmmm..

Offline dirtbiker

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 20, 2006, 01:35 AM »
Jack was washing Ennis' shirt!!!

Offline manila_rocks

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 20, 2006, 01:38 AM »
I think not :)   I am just sure it was undies.

Did Jack wear undies?

Offline dirtbiker

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 20, 2006, 01:40 AM »
Ask the other members.  It was Ennis' shirt.  I've seen the movie 5 times now

Offline Toadily

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 20, 2006, 02:00 AM »
It was Ennis's shirt, it's in the script.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 20, 2006, 08:05 AM »
It was Ennis's shirt, it's in the script.

Yes, Toadily is right, manila_rocks, the article in question was Ennis' shirt.

Recall that at the start of the movie, Ennis was so poor that his only possessions other than the clothes he was wearing were a spare shirt and a spare pair of jeans.  Ennis never wore underwear.  For example, the screenplay indicates that he wore no underwear in the scene when he undresses and washes himself while Jack was peeling spuds.

You must see the movie again to convince yourself. ;)
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2006, 08:17 AM by tpe »

Offline ethan

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies? *spoiler*
« Reply #6 on: Jan 20, 2006, 08:12 AM »
I second. It was the shirt - the one that Jack stole from Ennis.
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Offline daveya26

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies? *spoiler*
« Reply #7 on: Jan 20, 2006, 08:40 AM »
I second. It was the shirt - the one that Jack stole from Ennis.

Really?  I cant remember but was the item being washed white or coloured?  Also, he couldnt have washed it very well as it still had blood on it 20 years later! Im not convinced it was his shirt.

What was the signifcance of jack washing (whatever it was) naked? Nice as it was to see :) it seems like it might've been a bit chilly  :o

Offline ethan

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies? *spoiler*
« Reply #8 on: Jan 20, 2006, 08:49 AM »
Really?  I cant remember but was the item being washed white or coloured?  Also, he couldnt have washed it very well as it still had blood on it 20 years later! Im not convinced it was his shirt.

What was the signifcance of jack washing (whatever it was) naked? Nice as it was to see :) it seems like it might've been a bit chilly  :o

The shirt outside you saw on the top banner. The blood stain happened later when Ennis and Jack was fighting before leaving BBM.

Yes it looks chilly. Maybe he was washing his body as well.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies? *spoiler*
« Reply #9 on: Jan 20, 2006, 09:06 AM »
Really?  I cant remember but was the item being washed white or coloured?  Also, he couldnt have washed it very well as it still had blood on it 20 years later! Im not convinced it was his shirt.

What was the signifcance of jack washing (whatever it was) naked? Nice as it was to see :) it seems like it might've been a bit chilly  :o

The shirt outside you saw on the top banner. The blood stain happened later when Ennis and Jack was fighting before leaving BBM.

Yes it looks chilly. Maybe he was washing his body as well.

Very perceptive of both of you, daveya26  and ethan!  The screenplay does indicate that Jack shivers during this scene. :)

Gyllenhaal did this very subtly -- without dramatics.  The same for Ledger when his lips tremble when he reads the first postcard from Jack (again, the screenplay indicates that Ennis should tremble during this scene.)

Offline daveya26

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies? *spoiler*
« Reply #10 on: Jan 20, 2006, 09:20 AM »
The shirt outside you saw on the top banner. The blood stain happened later when Ennis and Jack was fighting before leaving BBM.

Yes it looks chilly. Maybe he was washing his body as well.

Aha, yes of course, got my timing mixed up.

Just went and got the OST, listening to it at work with my earphones in :)

Offline rabjr1

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #11 on: Jan 20, 2006, 11:08 AM »
In the book and maybe in the  dvd, but not in the movie, Jack "checks out" Ennis when he gets undressed befoer washing what he can reach.  Not even a furtive glance.  And that's how we know that Ennis does not wear "undies".*

*"goes comando"  -  rescene from "Friends"  "You never go comando in someone else's pants!"

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Offline daveya26

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #12 on: Jan 20, 2006, 11:13 AM »
In the book and maybe in the  dvd, but not in the movie, Jack "checks out" Ennis when he gets undressed befoer washing what he can reach.  Not even a furtive glance.  And that's how we know that Ennis does not wear "undies".*

*"goes comando"  -  rescene from "Friends"  "You never go comando in someone else's pants!"

Ah, here we are seperated by our common language - in the UK, pants = undies, so you couldnt go commando AND wear pants :)

Yeh, he doesnt seem to look at Ennis at all (though you sense he wants to) when he's washing - Im glad they didnt leave the line in where Ennis says he's gonna wash everything he can reach, it's funny and kinda masculaine but I think it wouldnt have sounded right somehow.

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #13 on: Jan 20, 2006, 02:31 PM »
Other than Ennis's shirt, I saw Jack was washing his own shirt/clothes right(there's a blue garment on the river bed too)? It kinda explains why Jack was naked/shirtless in the tent later that night because he was drying his clothes. But... wouldn't that mean Jack was naked/shirtless walking around and preparing dinner? No wonder Ennis gave in and entered the tent. :P

Offline Toadily

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 20, 2006, 02:45 PM »
Other than Ennis's shirt, I saw Jack was washing his own shirt/clothes right(there's a blue garment on the river bed too)? It kinda explains why Jack was naked/shirtless in the tent later that night because he was drying his clothes. But... wouldn't that mean Jack was naked/shirtless walking around and preparing dinner? No wonder Ennis gave in and entered the tent. :P

I hadn't thought of that, would make sense.  I mean it wasn't like they could run to
Mervyns and get another.
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Offline paradigm69

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #15 on: Jan 20, 2006, 03:58 PM »
IMHO, there was absolutely nothing gratuitous about Jack washing his clothes in the buff.  I mean, when you are on top of a mountain and that removed from all signs of civilization, at one with nature, I would DEF have done the same thing.  I would imagine that given the circumstances he/they were in, one would lose their inhibitions very quickly.  One would feel right at home being naked...

Offline Sitaram

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 21, 2006, 07:06 PM »
This thread makes me wonder about the common phrase regarding someone who "gives you the shirt off his back."

I believe that expression comes from the Gospels, something about "If a man asks you for your cloak, give him your shirt as well."

The story and movie is certainly not devoid of religious allusions.
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #17 on: Jan 21, 2006, 07:10 PM »
This thread makes me wonder about the common phrase regarding someone who "gives you the shirt off his back."

Good point.  ;)

Since Ennis was looking after the sheep..someone had to stay behind to look after the camp and do the chores (cooking, cleaning, washing up ...etc)
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Offline jimnick

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #18 on: Jan 21, 2006, 09:04 PM »
You'll find a wealth of information under the *shirts* topic...

Have a look see.

Jim

Offline chameau

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #19 on: Jan 30, 2006, 06:21 PM »
Jack was washing Ennis' shirt!!!

dirtbiker is right, it was Ennis shirt
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Offline Toadily

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #20 on: Jan 30, 2006, 06:26 PM »
Yep it's in the script.
"it's Love, Blockhead!"
-Pierre Marivaux  The Triumph of Love

"To love an idea is to love it a little more than one should."  -Jean Rostand

Offline chameau

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #21 on: Jan 30, 2006, 06:38 PM »
And the same shirt Ennis retreives in Jack bedroom? I guess it's the one
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline jimnick

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #22 on: Jan 30, 2006, 06:49 PM »
Yes My Friend,

I think is is the same one...

Jim

Offline chameau

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #23 on: Jan 30, 2006, 07:12 PM »
Do we know this movie or not?   8)
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline jimnick

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #24 on: Jan 30, 2006, 07:16 PM »
yeah!  of course it wasn't easy to pay attention to Jack's drudgery when watching him almost in the buff was the focus of my attention...

hmmmm

Jim

Offline chameau

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #25 on: Jan 30, 2006, 07:19 PM »
No!

I can't believe that from you Jim!

La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline jimnick

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #26 on: Jan 30, 2006, 07:36 PM »
Oh you!  ....little hypocrite, like you didn't notice.  Cover your eyes, did you?

Offline chameau

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #27 on: Jan 30, 2006, 07:37 PM »
I was just looking at the shirt...  :P
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Offline rabjr1

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #28 on: Jan 30, 2006, 08:36 PM »
At least they washed their clothes.  One good thing about the "working girls" in the wild west they at least got the miners etc to BATHE once in a while.

segue:  remember Jim Morrison of the "Doors" and his famous leather pants?   Well according to bandmates he NEVER cleaned them and during their concerts under the hot lights...well I guess he kind of smelled ripe. 
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Offline jason

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Re: Doing laundry in the river - was it his undies?
« Reply #29 on: Feb 02, 2006, 02:50 AM »
IMHO, there was absolutely nothing gratuitous about Jack washing his clothes in the buff.  I mean, when you are on top of a mountain and that removed from all signs of civilization, at one with nature, I would DEF have done the same thing.  I would imagine that given the circumstances he/they were in, one would lose their inhibitions very quickly.  One would feel right at home being naked...

I think you're quite right.  Perfectly normal behavior, especially when there aren't too many clothes (as the book says).

But this scene is just one of many (a real and specific theme by Ang Lee I think) expressing the natural flow towards an increasingly mutual and  domestical camp life (I shd say camping life). 

Within all the general camping activity like packing horses, whittling in the tent on a rainy day, etc, there are several overt scenes which I think are meant to show a deepening common life.  They cook a lot, with the camera pointed at the pan, less at Ennis.  There's the Ennis washing scene, they put up a tent, they take it down, they drink often and in detail, from the same bottle; Jack's in the buff washing Ennis' shirt, etc. Jack goes off to piss (book makes a bit of a deal of this). 

I think the creators are using these scenes to make the progress to an intimate life seem more likely, inevitable Proulx says.

The funny thing is, all the domesticity seems to take the place of overt romantic flirtatious behavior.  I know a guy who was completely disappointed with the movie because all these opportunities for hard core flirting in camp were wasted ! --  all this domestic stuff and almost never a look, he said!

Yes I know about Jack's quizzical look at the campfire that makes Ennis say "What?"  But that's real slim pickins, if you want a "regular" romance like my disappointed pal. 

What would a crude movie-maker have done with two fit young guys, deep in the woods, heading for the romance of their lives?  Result would have been completely regular and banal, and banale. Unremarkable. We wouldn't be here now.

Obviously I prefer Ang Lee's subtle approach, as being 100 x more powerful. ("...a billion times ... lovelier, more dangerous...", as the poet Hopkins says.)

IMHO:  in 1963 two straight macho guys would behave exactly as they did. With behaviors learned from a rural society that was much older -- think 1940s or further back. Jack's dad was probably born in the teens or 20s! Domesticity helped overcome the numerous barriers to their deeper involvement.
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