Topic: The Rodeo Clown and Liminality

[AnitaSmith]

In one scene, Jack Twist offers to buy the rodeo clown a drink.  The clown refuses explaining that he was just doing his job and that Jack should save the money towards his entry fee.  Clowns are very symbolic.  In the case of this particular scene, I could not help but see the clown as a type of messenger.  I found this on Wikipedia:

<<In Europe, up until as late as the 19th century the clown was a typical everyday character, and often appeared in carnivals. The performance is symbolic of liminality - being outside the rules of regular society the clown is able to subvert the normal order, and this basic premise is contemporarily used by many activists to point out social absurdity.>>

I could not help but feel, that in this case, the clown was a messenger of portent.  It seemed as if he were telling Jack Twist to get his house in order.  The rodeo clown, has the most dangerous jobs of all clowns.  "Liminality" is used to refer to a rite of passage; of being betwixt and between.  I'm just rambling.

[AnitaSmith]

Additional thought:  The clown could have been warning Jack Twist that he will not always be there to scare the beast away when he takes a fall.

[welshwitch]

Clowns are also sometimes seen as truth-tellers, simply because they are, while in clown mode,outside the normal rules of society - Shakespeare uses them in this way. And of course they are associated with the carnival and the disorder/inversions that suggests - ties up with the rodeo in the movie, because it;s there that Jack, who wouldn't normally come into contact with her, meets Lureen, the spoilt wealthy rodeo queen and the penniless bull-rider thrown together by circumstances. You can push this; when they first meet, she's up on a horse, in control, looking down - Jack's standing round waiting for his turn on the bull, looking up at her tentatively, very much dependent on her reaction.

The movie also seems to suggest, via the July 4th scene, that when characters move out into social events they are liable to meet others who are different and present dangers - in other words a social event can be disruptive rather than something which strngthens one's links with the community.

[greenfrog]

Additional thought:  The clown could have been warning Jack Twist that he will not always be there to scare the beast away when he takes a fall.

Interesting 

[brokie007]

The movie also seems to suggest, via the July 4th scene, that when characters move out into social events they are liable to meet others who are different and present dangers - in other words a social event can be disruptive rather than something which strngthens one's links with the community.

I was going to ask about this scene actually....I don't know if there's already a thread about it...but why do you think this scene was included apart from being one of the most spectecular scenes - [when the fireworks are going off behind Ennis - it's awesome  ] ? What does it represent? What does it say? I seem to agree with you welshwitch but I'd like to get more opinions on this one....

[tpe]

The clown is a wonderful symbol.  It should have been included in the BBM symbols thread.  Thank you for the wonderful thoughts.

[jesseanne21]

In one scene, Jack Twist offers to buy the rodeo clown a drink.  The clown refuses explaining that he was just doing his job and that Jack should save the money towards his entry fee.  Clowns are very symbolic.  In the case of this particular scene, I could not help but see the clown as a type of messenger.  I found this on Wikipedia:

<<In Europe, up until as late as the 19th century the clown was a typical everyday character, and often appeared in carnivals. The performance is symbolic of liminality - being outside the rules of regular society the clown is able to subvert the normal order, and this basic premise is contemporarily used by many activists to point out social absurdity.>>

I could not help but feel, that in this case, the clown was a messenger of portent.  It seemed as if he were telling Jack Twist to get his house in order.  The rodeo clown, has the most dangerous jobs of all clowns.  "Liminality" is used to refer to a rite of passage; of being betwixt and between.  I'm just rambling.

Anita - GREAT RAMBLING...I have wondered about the role of the clown in BBM and was never able to put it in words...you did great!

[afhickman]

I think of the clown as a kind of touchstone character.  When Jack comes on to him, the clown leaves Jack's company and joins a group of, presumably, straight men at a pool table.  Jack learns from this that he won't be able to make another friend like Ennis in the rodeo setting, at least not without risking ostracism.  Indeed, until he meets Lureen, the only time we see him interacting with other men, apart from the clown, is at bars, with bartenders.  When I first watched the film, I couldn't help but feel that Jack was looking for a kind of father surrogate in the clown; he does, physically, share some characteristics with Jack's father. 

[tpe]

That's an interesting comment, afhickman.  I have never thought of it this way, although I have heard some really theories saying that men become attracted to men out of a desire for a strong father figure.

I had not connected this viewpoint with the scene of Jack and the Rodeo clown.  I had thought that he was looking for a surrogate for his "lost" Ennis.  Your comments gets me thinking...

[Rønnaug]

Additional thought:  The clown could have been warning Jack Twist that he will not always be there to scare the beast away when he takes a fall.

This was a very good thought AnitaSmith... Never thought of it like that before But it kinda makes perfect sense

[tpe]

Additional thought:  The clown could have been warning Jack Twist that he will not always be there to scare the beast away when he takes a fall.

This was a very good thought AnitaSmith... Never thought of it like that before But it kinda makes perfect sense

I don't know why, but I have always taken the clown to be serious or even foreboding symbol, and not as the jolly figure most children see.  So yes, to me, this resonates. 

Perhaps I connect the clown image with that "evil clown", John Wayne Gacy Jr...

 

[welshwitch]

Clowns are unknowable - under the make-up who knows what they may be? Every real clown has a unique face - they register them like trade-marks, so you can see a clown as a one-off - how that may be applied to the movie is an interesting question.

To me the more relevant idea is that a clown is outisde normal parameters - he looks bizarre but is accepted because his function is known and he present no real threat - unless he starts to fulfil his truth-teller role, then he can cause all kinds of disruption.

In the movie the clown also saves the "real" cowboys" - when the bull-riders are thrown, it's the clown who interposes himself between them and the bull - so although apparently a distraction and a lesser figure than the heroic bull-rider, in reality the rodeo clown is highly skilled and also brave.

So this seems to me another look at what constitutes a real man - evidently the clown when out of role gets the implications of Jack's approach and hujrries of to be with some real men, so that there's no question-mark over what he is. But what are the real men doing? Playing a game...and not one with any danger involved in it.

[afhickman]

"Clowns are unknowable - under the make-up who knows what they may be?

Here's a thought.  Perhaps the message to Jack is that he should learn to be a clown and hide behind a false face of his own.  This is literally what he does when he marries Lureen and takes up the straight life as a husband and father.  Lureen's father certainly sees him as little more than a clown.  Until Thanksgiving, that is.

[greenfrog]

I think I may have brought this up some place else, but I'll point it out again anyway.



Jimbo looks very much like Ennis. Not just in physical features, but in dress as well.

[tpe]

"Clowns are unknowable - under the make-up who knows what they may be?

Here's a thought.  Perhaps the message to Jack is that he should learn to be a clown and hide behind a false face of his own.  This is literally what he does when he marries Lureen and takes up the straight life as a husband and father.  Lureen's father certainly sees him as little more than a clown.  Until Thanksgiving, that is.

Interesting thought.  It is a fair interpretation, no?  Whether this was actually intended is not the point, I think.   Disimulation was a burden that Jack had to bear...

[afhickman]

One thing that always strikes me about this scene, which is not in the Proulx story, is how lonely Jack appears.  It's no wonder he finally perks up when Lureen arrives on the scene and takes an interest in him.  I mentioned touchstone characters earlier.  In Shakespeare, the clowns and the fools are the ones who, like the Fool in Lear, are not afraid to tell the truth.  And the truth sometimes hurt.  The clown seems to be trying to tell Jack that, whatever he's looking for, he's not going to find it at the rodeo, or even in a bar.  Lureen offers another option, but it turns out to be a dead end as well.  In earlier posts, mostly on another site, I argued that Jack is HIMSELF a clown figure.  His very name suggests a trickster figure: Jack-in-the-green, Jack-in-the-box, Jack Frost.  In the film, he wears greeen; in the story, he drives a green truck.  Green is a color associated with trickster figures, to which list I might add Robin Goodfellow and Robin Hood.  Ennis is his opposite, a veritable sobersides ("it's like seein the pope") who is only alerted to the possibilities of life through his relationship with Jack.  Jack's tragedy may well be that he falls in love with someone who refuses to believe in magic.

Speaking of clowns, there's a killer clown on "Supernatural" tonight.  I'll be watching!

[tpe]

I really like your comments, afhickman.  And yes, I did feel Jack's loneliness in many of the scenes. Nonetheless, he always tried to be as cheerful and happy in those early trysts with Ennis.  In the end, I do think the whole thing just wore him down.  Years of waiting and frustration must have taken a heavy toll on him, as he was by nature lonesome and was deeply  needing to be loved.

 

[welshwitch]

Touchstone is also of course the name of the clown in "As You Like It" , a touchstone being something with which to test the genuieness of gold or silver. So what is this clown testing? Jack's intentions, sincerity, orientation, character?

Shakespeare's clowns show the major characters what they're doing that's misguided, affected, just plain wrong. This one clearly has that function - Jack appears to find out that trying to pick up strangers in bars is a foolish, to say the least, action. But he also goes off to join a group of apparently " normal" men - is he supposed to be showing that this is what Jack should do? Adopt an outward appearance at odds with his inner self?

Jack as a name also has connotations of triviality, even worthlesness - as in Jackanapes - or of being jumped-up - as in Jack-in-office.

Then of course some of the Jack assocoations are with fertility....

-

[tpe]

I like where this discussion is headed. 

"Zany" is of course a term rooted in the Greek and Roman equivalents to the more modern "clown" and it has the same connotations as with certain old usages pertaining to "Jack".

[welshwitch]

Shakespeare uses " zany" as equivalent to butt or straight man - he talks about "the clown's zany", someone there for the clown to make fun of, to add to the general craziness, but of less intelligence or self-knowledge than the clown, dependent on him.

I have a strong sense that in this scene at least the clown knows better than Jack, is more aware of the dangers around them and how to avoid them, is perhaps trying to show Jack how to negotiate the undercurrents without getting dragged down, and at the same time warning him about how easy it is for someone like Jack, inexperienced in such deep waters, to endanger, even drown, someone else.

[tpe]

But you also get the sense that the clown and his firends meant no good to Jack at the end of the scene.  They were clearly talking about him, and plans could have been in the works.  At the very least, Jack was aware of THIS danger, and left pretty quickly.

[welshwitch]

Maybe, or maybe he's just angry at being turned down then made to acknowledge his poverty when the barman asks why he doesn't try calf-roping and he has to say he can't afford the right horse.

I thought Jimbo was just inserting himself in an obviously male group to make himself look one of the boys.

[hpv]

But you also get the sense that the clown and his firends meant no good to Jack at the end of the scene.  They were clearly talking about him, and plans could have been in the works.  At the very least, Jack was aware of THIS danger, and left pretty quickly.

He did left, immediately after releasing his frostration at the barmen.

[rpmnh]

But you also get the sense that the clown and his firends meant no good to Jack at the end of the scene.  They were clearly talking about him, and plans could have been in the works.  At the very least, Jack was aware of THIS danger, and left pretty quickly.

Absolutely. I got the sense that Jimbo went over and told his friends what just transpired. By sharing what happened, he is attempting to create a "male bonding" moment with his friends, who would presumably be united in their shared disgust and hostility towards Jack and his presumed intentions.

[lachlan]

Brilliant interpretations! I too found this scene pivotal - but I got the feeling that Larry McMurtry and Dianna inserted this having read another of Annie's stories in Close Range, wherein she describes the isolation and poverty of an itinerant bullrider. Also, bear in mind that Jack's from a poor state (Wyoming) alone trying to earn a living in affluent, smug Texas. I myself spent most of my working life travelling, doing solitary free-lance jobs in societies more affluent than my own. The experience of going into a bar, seeking out one of the local "gang" and trying to get into by the crowd by offering him a drink is something I've been through a thousand times. Like Jack, I developed a charming, bold manner in an effort to make myself acceptible; it rarely succeeded. It's fairly easy to make a friend that way, but inclusion within the group is almost impossible. I don't know if Jack consciously sought a sexual liaison with Jimbo; I doubt if Jimbo was aware if he was. But Jimbo's an archetype who thrives on his membership of the "club" and reinforces his own inclusion by excluding a loner who's complimented him and been generous. What an ass! I've met his type so many times.

[manhattangirl]

Brilliant interpretations! I too found this scene pivotal - but I got the feeling that Larry McMurtry and Dianna inserted this having read another of Annie's stories in Close Range, wherein she describes the isolation and poverty of an itinerant bullrider. Also, bear in mind that Jack's from a poor state (Wyoming) alone trying to earn a living in affluent, smug Texas. I myself spent most of my working life travelling, doing solitary free-lance jobs in societies more affluent than my own. The experience of going into a bar, seeking out one of the local "gang" and trying to get into by the crowd by offering him a drink is something I've been through a thousand times. Like Jack, I developed a charming, bold manner in an effort to make myself acceptible; it rarely succeeded. It's fairly easy to make a friend that way, but inclusion within the group is almost impossible. I don't know if Jack consciously sought a sexual liaison with Jimbo; I doubt if Jimbo was aware if he was. But Jimbo's an archetype who thrives on his membership of the "club" and reinforces his own inclusion by excluding a loner who's complimented him and been generous. What an ass! I've met his type so many times.

If that's the case, then it's a very narrow line Jack must have walked every day of his life.   Was Jack being treated as the new kid on the block trying to make friends and being rejected because he was new, and viewed differently.  Or being interpet as trying to "pick up" the other person, like there some kind of protocol in buying someone a drink.  Compare that with Randall,  remember in the charity dinner scene, Randall glancing at Jack, while his wife chattered away.  What gave Randall the incentive to approach Jack so boldly.   I don't mean to be funny  or disrepectful asking this question, but is there a hit or miss policy going on here? 

[lachlan]

Only my interpretation, of course: In my experience there are numerous boundaries to overcome when trying to make friends with someone who is a member of a team. Especially if you are obviously on your own and having to make the first move. If Jimbo were a magnanimous person and secure with the fact that he's part of the group, he probably would have welcomed Jack's generosity and compliment ("Best rodeo-clown I've ever worked with."). But he actually puts Jack down and makes a point of getting up from the bar where he was sitting and joining the group - of calf-ropers around the pool table - as a gesture that reinforces his right of membership. Rejecting an outsider is a cheap means of strengthening his bond with the others. In Annie Proulx's writings, it is made clear that the calf-ropers and the rodeo clowns are a relatively stable social group and that bullriders are perceived by them as itinerant chancers. And a poor boy from Wyoming in affluent, arrogant Texas. This would apply also to LD Newsome's dismissal of Jack with "Rodeo can get 'em". I can see a thread running through Jack's life as an unintentional outsider trying desperately to fit in somewhere. His love of Innes could well be fuelled by his need for admiration and acceptance, and by Ennis' needs which Jack believes he can fulfill.

[manhattangirl]

Thanks Lachlan:

WOW, I didn't know there was a was a whole social order.   Jack had to deal with acceptance at so many levels. I knew there was a reason why the character of Jack, holds a warm spot for me.  If Ennis only understood that about Jack.

[welshwitch]

From the word go, Jack's an outsider - look at Aguirre's attitude to him.

Jack's often on the edge of the crowd - the rodeo clown isn't heroic like the bull-riders but he's more included than Jack is.

He's an outsider when visiting his own new-born son.

When he's selling tractors, he's clearly an outsider to the locals who buy the things.

He's an outsider in Mexico.

The rodeo clown reinforces Jack's position, or lack of it, and shows how exposed he is - there's no group he can merge into and hide.

[lachlan]

Annie Proulx defines herself as a Social Historian, only taking up writing fiction in her fifties. This could go some way to explaining her indepth knowledge of the way people behave in such circumstances. I myself studied Ethnography/Folklore and my brother Sociology. In my own lifetime I have experienced many years of travelling alone in remote mountain regions, attempting to integrate with local groups in order to learn about their music and customs. In the process, I learned an enormous amount about group-dynamics. Although I have great affinities to much of the story and some striking parallels with my own life's story (read my recent introductory entry in this and the other BBM forums), the scene with Jimbo was immediately clear to me. Looking out for a local who's, even briefly, alone at a bar was part of survival for me when I was on my own in the Balkans, the Tatras, Russia, Italy... and the Rockies. I learned the procedures by trial and error. And I experienced quite a few put downs by asses like Jimbo. I don't know if Ossana and McMurtry intended it that way, but Annie Proulx writes a great deal on the difficulties encountered by single people in a strange town.