Topic: Ennis' Fierce and Possessive Love for Jack - Spoilers

[keren_b]

3 - The second tent scene --- the way he gives himself to Jack --- trust and fear --- totally alien to what he's ever known . The way he touches Jack --- like he was so precious. Ennis lets Jack take the lead --- not a easy thing for him at all. The sense of their intimacy we all bear witness to seems to me to be love. Their hunger for each other is for more than sex.

jackie62 - what a beautiful post. I totally agree with you about the second tent scene. Ennis is his 'own man', very much brought up with the idea of what the role of a man should represent, and that he should take the lead in situations, be a dominant force i guess. To see him SO trusting of Jack and to let him take the lead in their lovemaking is such a striking indicator of the depth of feeling he already has for Jack. Simply, THE most romantic and compelling love scene i have ever seen.

So true! I couldn't have said it better. and you guys make me cry.

[n061857]

What gets me in this scene is the way he ponders his move on the log, then ambles into the tent so tentatively and as you've all said relinquishes his authority to Jack.  He let's go of all his beliefs and fears.  Just as he does, during the reunion embrace.  Just imagine the ferocity of his emotions to let his guard down so much to kiss Jack in public!  It's mind boggling!

[keren_b]

it had just hit me - the difference between the first and the second tent scenes:
on the first time, they had sex.
on the second time, they made love.
That's the difference in my eyes.

[n061857]

Yes, that is what makes that second scene so powerful.

[jackie62]

thanks v much for the supportive comments on my earlier post.

 I agree with t he thoughts of keren b re the difference between the 2 tent scenes.

I know some people see the first scene as solely about sex but I'm not so sure.

 I do think the first tent scene was a combination of lust, need and part of the ferocity of feeling Ennis had for Jack. It overwhelmed him. Heath Ledger said it had to be an almost violent act from Ennis ---  I'm not saying that he wanted to hurt Jack but that the need for him was strong but held back , and totally unrecognized for what it was by Ennis until then. I guess I think an attraction for Jack started in Ennis pretty early on but was totally unclear to him.

[coguaro]

I only would say how we can tell that Ennis is possessive when he encounters Jack 2-3 times per year for some day and he never ask Jack to do something for him, to renounce to something... he only wishes  to be so important to Jack as Jack is to him...

[tpe]

For me, the 1st tent scene is indeed an act of taking possession on the part of Ennis.

But it is not Ennis taking possession of Jack.  I think it is more like Ennis taking possession of his own desires. 

Underneath all his desires was his love for Jack.

He needed to face up first to his desires before he could finally face up to that love.

In the 2nd tent scene, he took possession of this love.

My opinion.

[jackie62]

For me, the 1st tent scene is indeed an act of taking possession on the part of Ennis.

But it is not Ennis taking possession of Jack.  I think it is more like Ennis taking possession of his own desires. 

Underneath all his desires was his love for Jack.

He needed to face up first to his desires before he could finally face up to that love.

In the 2nd tent scene, he took possession of this love.

My opinion.



beautifully put

[coguaro]

For me, the 1st tent scene is indeed an act of taking possession on the part of Ennis.

But it is not Ennis taking possession of Jack.  I think it is more like Ennis taking possession of his own desires. 

Underneath all his desires was his love for Jack.

He needed to face up first to his desires before he could finally face up to that love.

In the 2nd tent scene, he took possession of this love.

My opinion.

of course that possession.. I completely agree with you tpe..

[tpe]

Thanks jackie62 and coguaro.

It is so hard sometimes to say in words why we love this film and story so much.  But when I read many of the posts here and in other threads in this forum, I find that it somehow gets somewhat easier. 

[Lost_Girl]

it had just hit me - the difference between the first and the second tent scenes:
on the first time, they had sex.
on the second time, they made love.
That's the difference in my eyes.

That's why the 2nd tent scene, make my feel happy and sad, in the same time.

[frances]

In my opinion even more than the reunion kiss is significant what happens just before. Two moments in particular :

1) This Ennis' look



2) The way he pronounces his "Jake f***** Twist" with a kind of trembling voice. We can even touch his excitement, distress, emotion...

P.S. For me, the 1st tent (...) I think it is more like Ennis taking possession of his own desires. 

In the 2nd tent scene, he took possession of this love.

Tpe, what a precise and accurate way to summarize the two tent scenes!

[keren_b]

In my opinion even more than the reunion kiss is significant what happens just before. Two moments in particular :

1) This Ennis' look



2) The way he pronounces his "Jake f***** Twist" with a kind of trembling voice. We can even touch his excitement, distress, emotion...

one of my favorite moments. I love that look, and that smile. and the way he rushes outside in such a hurry. he reminds me of a little kid waiting for his dad to come home and bring him a present... so enthusiastic, so sweet.

[tpe]

In my opinion even more than the reunion kiss is significant what happens just before. Two moments in particular :

1) This Ennis' look



2) The way he pronounces his "Jake f***** Twist" with a kind of trembling voice. We can even touch his excitement, distress, emotion...

one of my favorite moments. I love that look, and that smile. and the way he rushes outside in such a hurry. he reminds me of a little kid waiting for his dad to come home and bring him a present... so enthusiastic, so sweet.

The beautiful look on Ennis's face when he first sees Jack from the window of his apartment: the happiness you see there is not accompanied by any words or dialogue  -- this is because that happiness is beyond any form of verbal expression.

[christie wood]

couple of quick ideas about whether we see Ennis in love with Jack.

1- The camp fire hug --- where his connection with Jack takes him back to a deep childhood time of love and warmth --- deep connection. Only with those we love deepest, is there such a link. It goes way beyond sex /friendship. 

2 - While he can't respond the way I'd hope so many times with  Jack ---I personally found the looks on his face when facing their uncertain future spoke volumes--- in the motel when he says " i doubt theres much we can do " ; and when,by the river, he says "if you can't fix it you got to stand it". These were of such profound sadness that i couldn't doubt he's in love. When Jack touches his cheek --- the tears are so close.

3 - The second tent scene --- the way he gives himself to Jack --- trust and fear --- totally alien to what he's ever known . The way he touches Jack --- like he was so precious. Ennis lets Jack take the lead --- not a easy thing for him at all. The sense of their intimacy we all bear witness to seems to me to be love. Their hunger for each other is for more than sex.

These are examples of Ennis's emotions on show not like in the more explosive scenes --- but I think they reflect the depth of the love that drove the possessiveness and the ferocity.  The ferocity of the love in the reunion kiss blows you away.

Jackie, what a wonderful post.  I could not have expressed myself in that way, but I was thinking all of this in my mind!!!  The second tent scene shoes so clearly how much Ennis has accepted that he loves Jack.  He allows Jack to lead him in and touch and hold him, in a way that he wants to be held and touched.  When they lie down and you see the way Ennis is holding on to Jack - this really does get to me, every single time.  It's like he's drowning in Jack's love and doesn't ever want to stop touching him. 

I agree with those who talk about the first tent scene too.  I agree this is more about power and control, but the way Ennis holds Jack shows that he is being drawn in and when Jack undoes his belt, you see a look in Ennis's face that says he's either going to punch Jack or sleep with him.  And we know what happens then.

[christie wood]

In my opinion even more than the reunion kiss is significant what happens just before. Two moments in particular :

1) This Ennis' look



2) The way he pronounces his "Jake f***** Twist" with a kind of trembling voice. We can even touch his excitement, distress, emotion...

one of my favorite moments. I love that look, and that smile. and the way he rushes outside in such a hurry. he reminds me of a little kid waiting for his dad to come home and bring him a present... so enthusiastic, so sweet.

The beautiful look on Ennis's face when he first sees Jack from the window of his apartment: the happiness you see there is not accompanied by any words or dialogue  -- this is because that happiness is beyond any form of verbal expression.

So true, tpe, so true.  No words are needed, you KNOW what Ennis is thinking and feeling.  He looks SO happy right at that moment, you can just imagine what he's thinking:

"there he is, the love of my life".

And then we see him, tucking his shirt in, eager to get out and see Jack, and then that "Jack.....Twist" line which I think is so sweet, and then Ennis jumping down a number of stairs at a time to get to Jack quicker......which leads us to the most gorgeous passionate kiss.

[tpe]

So true, tpe, so true.  No words are needed, you KNOW what Ennis is thinking and feeling.  He looks SO happy right at that moment, you can just imagine what he's thinking:

"there he is, the love of my life".

And then we see him, tucking his shirt in, eager to get out and see Jack, and then that "Jack.....Twist" line which I think is so sweet, and then Ennis jumping down a number of stairs at a time to get to Jack quicker......which leads us to the most gorgeous passionate kiss.

Hi Christie!  I think Ennis shoving Jack to the wall is a form of possession: Ennis is owning up to his love for Jack -- he probably can't help it at that point.  He had to take possession.  Can you imagine Ennis's feelings when Jack shoves him back in return?

[christie wood]

So true, tpe, so true.  No words are needed, you KNOW what Ennis is thinking and feeling.  He looks SO happy right at that moment, you can just imagine what he's thinking:

"there he is, the love of my life".

And then we see him, tucking his shirt in, eager to get out and see Jack, and then that "Jack.....Twist" line which I think is so sweet, and then Ennis jumping down a number of stairs at a time to get to Jack quicker......which leads us to the most gorgeous passionate kiss.

Hi Christie!  I think Ennis shoving Jack to the wall is a form of possession: Ennis is owning up to his love for Jack -- he probably can't help it at that point.  He had to take possession.  Can you imagine Ennis's feelings when Jack shoves him back in return?

You know when I think about that, as I'm thinking about it right now, I get flutters in my stomach, I really do!  That shoving up against the wall that they both do is just so powerful, and says so much.  We all know how Jack must have felt to have Ennis initiate that, but for Jack then to reciprocate, I can only imagine that Ennis now knows that this is real, this true, this is what real love is like. 

God, I will never get sick of this scene, never! 

[christie wood]

I know some of you may think this petty in relation to other ways Ennis showed his love for Jack, but what do you think about when Ennis shot the elk?  Especially after saying "i'll stick with beans".....to me, he was doing this for Jack.  Of course, he would never say that, but to me it's all part of Ennis's growing feelings for Jack that cannot go unexplained.  It may seem insignficiant on the face of it, but to me it's important because it's hidden in something else - Ennis trying to be big and cool in front of Jack, shooting the elk and saying "I was sick of your dumb ass missin".

[Stephen]

A wonderful observation, Christie, especially after the "I'll stick with beans" comment!  Now your insight has got me thinking about other small scenes again!

[keren_b]

Christie I agree with you, I think it's obvious that Ennis was doing it for Jack. Ennis has never said he was sick of beans, he was willing to compromise for beans (the same way he compromised for a few high altitude f***s once or twice a year). but Jack said "no more beans", and Ennis ordered soup although he wasn't eating it himself. And after the bear incident if it was up to Ennis he'd stick with beans, he said so, but Jack said he wouldn't so Ennis shot the elk. Yep, we see what's going on...

[tpe]

Nothing can equal the ability to love, except the realization that you are also loved in return.

Thanks all for the wonderful comments.

[BBBOY]

Nothing can equal the ability to love, except the realization that you are also loved in return.

Thanks all for the wonderful comments.

Once again tpe you have succinctly summed up the core of these recent posts. Thanks.

[dalemidex]

Christie I agree with you, I think it's obvious that Ennis was doing it for Jack. Ennis has never said he was sick of beans, he was willing to compromise for beans (the same way he compromised for a few high altitude f***s once or twice a year). but Jack said "no more beans", and Ennis ordered soup although he wasn't eating it himself. And after the bear incident if it was up to Ennis he'd stick with beans, he said so, but Jack said he wouldn't so Ennis shot the elk. Yep, we see what's going on...

One of the reasons that I think Ennis had an attraction to Jack early on was him ordering soup when he himself doesn't eat soup...AND the fact that he hid the real reason.  If he was just being nice to Jack, why not just tell the supply guy the truth?   No, I think Ennis was starting to "like" Jack --feeling a gut-level attraction to him early on.  Think of how a 13-year-old acts when they start feeling the hots for someone.  They do nice things for them but are all embarrassed about people knowing.  The even make up excuses or lie to hide that they "like-like' someone, to deny the romantic/sexual attraction they are feeling.  The fact that Ennis ordered soup for Jack only tells me he was being considerate, which in itself is meaningful.  But the fact that Ennis felt the urge then to LIE about the motivation -- to hide it even though the truth was a perfectly understandable and simple explanation -- that tells me there was something more going on even from that very early date.

[christie wood]

Christie I agree with you, I think it's obvious that Ennis was doing it for Jack. Ennis has never said he was sick of beans, he was willing to compromise for beans (the same way he compromised for a few high altitude f***s once or twice a year). but Jack said "no more beans", and Ennis ordered soup although he wasn't eating it himself. And after the bear incident if it was up to Ennis he'd stick with beans, he said so, but Jack said he wouldn't so Ennis shot the elk. Yep, we see what's going on...

One of the reasons that I think Ennis had an attraction to Jack early on was him ordering soup when he himself doesn't eat soup...AND the fact that he hid the real reason.  If he was just being nice to Jack, why not just tell the supply guy the truth?   No, I think Ennis was starting to "like" Jack --feeling a gut-level attraction to him early on.  Think of how a 13-year-old acts when they start feeling the hots for someone.  They do nice things for them but are all embarrassed about people knowing.  The even make up excuses or lie to hide that they "like-like' someone, to deny the romantic/sexual attraction they are feeling.  The fact that Ennis ordered soup for Jack only tells me he was being considerate, which in itself is meaningful.  But the fact that Ennis felt the urge then to LIE about the motivation -- to hide it even though the truth was a perfectly understandable and simple explanation -- that tells me there was something more going on even from that very early date.

Absolutely.  He was beginning to like Jack, (just like teenagers as you so perfectly put!) but had no means of expressing that other than in the little things, in this case replacing beans with soup.  He told the supply guy early on that he didn't eat soup, and he'd never said anything to indicate that he was sick of beans, so he was so clearly doing this for Jack. 

btw, Keren_b, you know you said Ennis never said he was sick of beans, but he said it to the supply guy when he said "I thought you didn't eat soup", and Ennis replied "well, I'm sick of beans".  Even when  I heard that the first time, I knew Ennis was lying, and was only saying that as a reason to give the supply guy to give them something other than beans, because Jack didn't want beans any more.

Who would have thought that beans could have so much power to open up all these loving feelings in Ennis!

I am so loving this thread!

[aimi15]

Christie I agree with you, I think it's obvious that Ennis was doing it for Jack. Ennis has never said he was sick of beans, he was willing to compromise for beans (the same way he compromised for a few high altitude f***s once or twice a year). but Jack said "no more beans", and Ennis ordered soup although he wasn't eating it himself. And after the bear incident if it was up to Ennis he'd stick with beans, he said so, but Jack said he wouldn't so Ennis shot the elk. Yep, we see what's going on...

One of the reasons that I think Ennis had an attraction to Jack early on was him ordering soup when he himself doesn't eat soup...AND the fact that he hid the real reason.  If he was just being nice to Jack, why not just tell the supply guy the truth?   No, I think Ennis was starting to "like" Jack --feeling a gut-level attraction to him early on.  Think of how a 13-year-old acts when they start feeling the hots for someone.  They do nice things for them but are all embarrassed about people knowing.  The even make up excuses or lie to hide that they "like-like' someone, to deny the romantic/sexual attraction they are feeling.  The fact that Ennis ordered soup for Jack only tells me he was being considerate, which in itself is meaningful.  But the fact that Ennis felt the urge then to LIE about the motivation -- to hide it even though the truth was a perfectly understandable and simple explanation -- that tells me there was something more going on even from that very early date.

I agree, i think this is such a touching indicator of Ennis' attraction to Jack. Its like the shy kid at school being blown away by one of the confident kids and trying to please them without making it TOO obvious - its just so cute of Ennis..

[dalemidex]

I agree, i think this is such a touching indicator of Ennis' attraction to Jack. Its like the shy kid at school being blown away by one of the confident kids and trying to please them without making it TOO obvious - its just so cute of Ennis..

Whoa...new Brokeback emotion hitting here!  I agree with the analogy of Ennis being the shy kid who is blown away with attraction to one of the confident kids.   Now just imagine how heady and intoxicating that was for Ennis when it actually came true!

I have something sort of similar in my background.  A good friend of mine who was definitely more popular, confident, and physically well out of my league (so I felt) was as far as I could tell, only interested in women.  When late one night he put the moves on me it was perhaps the most dizzying, intoxicating, amazing feeling in my life.  Getting woozy just thinking about it now, nearly 20 years later.  I never thought of Ennis having this same feeling until now, but  I bet he did.  And then to pit it against the internal homophobia and fear he felt, well, holy cow!  What conflict he must have felt. 

I've often wondered just what Ennis is feeling when he gets up the morning after the first tent scene.  Anyone care to speculate?

[aimi15]

I agree, i think this is such a touching indicator of Ennis' attraction to Jack. Its like the shy kid at school being blown away by one of the confident kids and trying to please them without making it TOO obvious - its just so cute of Ennis..

Whoa...new Brokeback emotion hitting here!  I agree with the analogy of Ennis being the shy kid who is blown away with attraction to one of the confident kids.   Now just imagine how heady and intoxicating that was for Ennis when it actually came true!

I have something sort of similar in my background.  A good friend of mine who was definitely more popular, confident, and physically well out of my league (so I felt) was as far as I could tell, only interested in women.  When late one night he put the moves on me it was perhaps the most dizzying, intoxicating, amazing feeling in my life.  Getting woozy just thinking about it now, nearly 20 years later.  I never thought of Ennis having this same feeling until now, but  I bet he did.  And then to pit it against the internal homophobia and fear he felt, well, holy cow!  What conflict he must have felt. 

I've often wondered just what Ennis is feeling when he gets up the morning after the first tent scene.  Anyone care to speculate?

I'd find this interesting to know too. His first reaction - shock, disbelief, relief, happiness? It must have been such a mix of different instinctive feelings - i wonder if his sense of homophobia outweighed his attraction for Jack, or vice-versa?

[pierralex]

I've often wondered just what Ennis is feeling when he gets up the morning after the first tent scene.  Anyone care to speculate?

In my opinion the first thing he think about is : "whao my head, what a fu**ing headache!", and then " uh? why my pants are down? Oh I remember." Then he needs to flee from talking with jack.
As he rides going on find the sheeps, I think he must think a little like this :

it was stange
I liked it
I don't have to, he's a man
he's the best mate I've ever had
it's not good
he's so cute and nice
I marry alma in few months
I've never felt better than when I'm with him
what does he thinks?
I really loved it tonight
what does he think of me?
I'd like to do it again
We're dead if someone learns it
I want to hold him in my arms
I'm supposed to be with a girl and have children, not to go with a guy
he started all tonight, maybe he wants more too
my dad would kill me without any hesitation
and what if...
I don't even have to think about it

I ain't queer. I need him.

[aimi15]

I've often wondered just what Ennis is feeling when he gets up the morning after the first tent scene.  Anyone care to speculate?

In my opinion the first thing he think about is : "whao my head, what a fu**ing headache!", and then " uh? why my pants are down? Oh I remember." Then he needs to flee from talking with jack.
As he rides going on find the sheeps, I think he must think a little like this :

it was stange
I liked it
I don't have to, he's a man
he's the best mate I've ever had
it's not good
he's so cute and nice
I marry alma in few months
I've never felt better than when I'm with him
what does he thinks?
I really loved it tonight
what does he think of me?
I'd like to do it again
We're dead if someone learns it
I want to hold him in my arms
I'm supposed to be with a girl and have cildren, not to go with a guy
he started all tonight, maybe he wants more too
my dad would kill me without any hesitation
and what if...
I don't even have to think about it

I ain't queer. I need him.

How touching  :'(