Topic: Social position and attitude

[Pierre]

Both Ennis and Jack have an opposite attitude in theirs lives and in the way they handle their love story:
Ennis, poor has nothing to lose, free and lonesome after nine years with Alma. No social position to jeopardize, but he remains locked in his refusal attitude to share Jack's life
Jack has a good job, good life, is weathy. Not for free, for this improvment he had to bear the contempt of the familly. In another hand he is ready to throw this all away easily (after Ennis divorce he drives straight, believing on his chance to make his dream come true).
yin and yang again.
I focus on that, thinking this opposition makes them complex, deep, so close to us (to me indeed!)

 

[coguaro]

I think that Ennis is totally upset because his love to Jack; of course he express that love  in his way and he has so many fears for that love... but nothing and nobody can replace Jack. For that reason he is unable to lead his live with pragmatism and to do compromises as Jack did (to marry a rich women, work, found other mans or woman...)
As an example Ennis react with violence when his wife Alma offended Jack and their relationship in the kitchen because he was moved by that profound love which is over all. I think that Jack didn't would react likethis but with more diplomacy and pragmatism.
...How many man as Ennis world needs...

coguaro

[scruffy]

These are great posts I'm reading here.  You're making me think just how deep this movie is on so many levels.

Ennis is very much a gentleman.  It's clear that he lives by the cowboy code where people are polite (he says thank you just as much as he cussus) women are protected and arguments are settled with a fist OUTSIDE.  He never talks ill of anyone and often protects those around him. "Leave Alma out of this, it's not her fault," he says to Jack.

What makes the scene in the kitchen with Alma so intense is that he almost breaks the gentleman's cowboy code.  "Jack twist.  Jack nasty" is enough for Ennis to raise his hand to a woman -- something that would be unthinkable only moments before.  Now, the realization of being discovered would be enough for Ennis to want to shut Alma up.  But his love for Jack was equally important.  He couldn't stand anyone bad mouthing Jack -- woman or not.  Ennis composes himself only long enough to get outside.  By the time he is going into the bar his fuse is so short the punch that was directed at Alma gets hauled on the angry driver in the truck.  Ennis decks the guy without a word.  Sucker punches are not a part of the cowboy code.  He finally broke it but at least not on a woman.

[kcristob]

  Now, the realization of being discovered would be enough for Ennis to want to shut Alma up.  But his love for Jack was equally important.  He couldn't stand anyone bad mouthing Jack -- woman or not.

I really agree with this.  I've seen BBM 4 times (and have read it) and I do think that Ennis is not only recoiling about his relationship with Jack, he's protecting it as well.  As he says to Alma: "you don't know nothin about it..."  It's HIS

[chameau]

Hem!

Wow!  We have professional fans here.  Very interesting postings.

Guys,

I agree with all of you!

If university degrees were given for BBM analysis, you would all get an A+, my brain runs 500mph now!

Thank you very much for sharing, I'm not about to go to bed I guess.

[Pierre]

I really agree with this.  I've seen BBM 4 times (and have read it) and I do think that Ennis is not only recoiling about his relationship with Jack, he's protecting it as well.  As he says to Alma: "you don't know nothin about it..."

Totally agree too. In this way, Ennis protect each part of his life from the other: the social codes part, Alma, daughters... from the passion to Jack. Stretched between and building a wall between, never able to put them together. Perfect schizophrenic situation.
The last sentence of the novella:"There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can’t fix it you’ve got to
stand it." A few words to explain...all.
Respect to Mrs Proulx!

[stephan]

Both Ennis and Jack have an opposite attitude in theirs lives and in the way they handle their love story:
(...) I focus on that, thinking this opposition makes them complex, deep, so close to us (to me indeed!)

I too agree with what's being said here.
There is one scene I want to think about more: when Ennis asks Jack if he gets the feeling people are giving him funny looks, "as if they know." And he asks if Lureen suspects anything. That means of course that he fears discovery, but it also suggests to me that Ennis is asking himself how much he can get away with, that he needs to express his relationship more openly, but how can he and still avoid discovery (he remembers what his father showed him when he was 9 yrs old).

On the other hand, Jack remains nonchalant about the whole thing. That difference in attitude was another cause for argument. Ennis could only feel even more inferior, Jack could only feel that Ennis what going on about trivial matters.
Stephan

[stationbbm]

I saw the film for a third time last night...Social position....That was certainly reinforced in the final scene with his daughter.  As they enter his mini trailer, Alma Jr. makes some comment about "Dad, you need new furniture in here" and it somehow struck me as: Here's this fellow who after 20 years of keeping jobs, losing jobs,divorcing, losing touch with his children (Troy vs. Kurt)...really had nothing much in the way of any type of social status among his peers there in Wyoming.  Just a lonely cowboy ranchhand in nothing more than a small shack and very few friends.  We all go through life wanting to "do something" with our lives and then look back twenty years and wonder where the time went.  Makes you also wonder if Riverton folk "really knew" about Ennis and alienated him...Now with Jack gone...With his decision to attend his daughter's wedding, you're left with some slim margin of hope that maybe he'll begin to reach out to family and others and turn a new leaf...

Just a thought.
stationbbm

[Emmanuel]

By the end of the movie, I felt Ennis was in a way "relieved" by Jack's death. Ennis life was threatened by Jack's plans to live with him and Jack was trying to build something with an other man (which is clearer in Proulx book), .

After Jack's death, he can dwell on that idialised love, on this "secret" or "souvenir" of Brokeback Mountain.That is perhaps what Lee is telling us when he says that Jack and Ennnis are in Love with the idea of Love.

Did anyone feel that way ?

[proulxfan]

I can't begin to express how wonderful I find it to get these different "takes" on parts of the film and the story. I had never thought about the possibility of Ennis's violent reactions to Alma's accusation and "Jack nasty" comment as being a way to protect his feelings about Jack and, for lack of a better term, what he sees as the 'purity' or 'sanctity' of their relationship. That ties directly into his threatening Jack's life-his beloved-if he should find out about Jack's infidelities. Again, he is breaking an upspoken code. Annie's description of this in the story is telling: "He was cutting fence now, trespassing in the shoot-em zone." In a previous story in the Close Range collection, she describes what a horrendous transgression cutting fence is in the context of rancher culture. In asking about Mexico, Ennis is doing something he feels is an unforgivable sin, but cannot stop himself, and then follows with the verbal threat against Jack's life.
I had struggled with trying to understand Ennis's violent streak, but this analysis accounts for that brilliantly. Well done!! And now, heeer I go again. :'(

[stephan]

I haven't read the story, but from what I've read elsewhere on this fantastic forum, there are 2 bbm's : the story and the film. Proulx herself is said to have commented on how much Ledger built up her character Ennis. So for the sake of keeping Ennis in character, film version, I have to say that I can't see him as being relieved that Jack is gone. Ennis had said he was nobody, he hasn't "improved" his social status. Being poor, he would value his few treasures. Jack was never one of his possessions, but his real treasure. I can't see him as devaluating Jack, hence the violent reaction to Alma, and his hanging on to those shirts.
Stephan