Author Topic: was ennis gay ? (Read 667094 times)

holyfool · « **Reply #840 on:** Mar 17, 2009, 07:42 PM »

-you are right tpe.

let see : how many men a woman need to sleep with to be called a "slut"?

let see: if two straight men sleep with each other one night, will we call them "queers" the next morning?

let see: is there a "grey area" left?.

you are right, we need to label ourselves, and PLEASE some one show us the choice of labels, before we get tagged by

miseducated societies.

some times you need to lose something to gain something.

tpe · « **Reply #841 on:** Mar 18, 2009, 10:24 AM »

Quote from: holyfool on Mar 17, 2009, 07:42 PM

-you are right tpe.

let see : how many men a woman need to sleep with to be called a "slut"?

let see: if two straight men sleep with each other one night, will we call them "queers" the next morning?

let see: is there a "grey area" left?.

you are right, we need to label ourselves, and PLEASE some one show us the choice of labels, before we get tagged by

miseducated societies.

some times you need to lose something to gain something.

It's never been simple. We live with labels everyday, and make the most of what they try to approximate, or else defend ourselves from those who attach oversimplifications to them.

holyfool · « **Reply #842 on:** Mar 18, 2009, 08:29 PM »

you got that right tpe.

i say :

- go ahead (you repressed society) please waste your time and label me, at least i am the lucky one that is able to satisfy

a woman and a man with out any regrets or insecurities. people like me always carry the satisfied smile at the end.

vedrana · « **Reply #843 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 07:26 AM »

The labels don't exist only in the "world" of sexuality. Many(me included) put labels sometimes on others, and sometimes we're not even aware of it!

tpe · « **Reply #844 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 08:11 AM »

Agreed. Sorry that I have sidetracked the discussion a bit about labels. It is related to the current topic, but if you want to post additional thoughts about Ennis's sexuality, then feel free to ignore my broader comments on labels.

vedrana · « **Reply #845 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 08:17 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Mar 19, 2009, 08:11 AM

Agreed. Sorry that I have sidetracked the discussion a bit about labels. It is related to the current topic, but if you want to post additional thoughts about Ennis's sexuality, then feel free to ignore my broader comments on labels.

In fact it was me who went OT. But when it comes to labels - it is very common used in every part of our lives. It is just that we are more sensitive when it comes to something we are being labeled about. So I assume that gay people are very sensitive when it comes to words that describe their sexuality in rude or ridiculing way.

tpe · « **Reply #846 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 08:21 AM »

Quote from: loreen on Mar 19, 2009, 08:17 AM

In fact it was me who went OT. But when it comes to labels - it is very common used in every part of our lives. It is just that we are more sensitive when it comes to something we are being labeled about. So I assume that gay people are very sensitive when it comes to words that describe their sexuality in rude or ridiculing way.

IT is quite common -- perhaps even ubiquitous... As for gay people, it all depends. Some embrace the label with pride, ehile other do not. Don't forget that "gay" was coined to counter more pejorative terms like queer or queen or or sissy or pansy, etc. "Gay" was originally used as a non-pejorative term.

vedrana · « **Reply #847 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 08:41 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Mar 19, 2009, 08:21 AM

IT is quite common -- perhaps even ubiquitous... As for gay people, it all depends. Some embrace the label with pride, ehile other do not. Don't forget that "gay" was coined to counter more pejorative terms like queer or queen or or sissy or pansy, etc. "Gay" was originally used as a non-pejorative term.

I was thinking about the other terms you mentioned, not "gay"! I also think of "gay" as a polite word...

,and not being a native speaker, I have to be very careful. But, as you said I was right.

Also, I can't even imagine why would Ennis be a gay! He fell in love with Jack, and I believe, had he not, he would've never ever look at other men!

tpe · « **Reply #848 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 08:48 AM »

Quote from: loreen on Mar 19, 2009, 08:41 AM

I was thinking about the other terms you mentioned, not "gay"! I also think of "gay" as a polite word... ,and not being a native speaker, I have to be very careful. But, as you said I was right.

Also, I can't even imagine why would Ennis be a gay! He fell in love with Jack, and I believe, had he not, he would've never ever look at other men!

The funny thing is that I can't even imagine why Ennis would NOT be gay.

Different POV.

vedrana · « **Reply #849 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 08:52 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Mar 19, 2009, 08:48 AM

The funny thing is that I can't even imagine why Ennis would NOT be gay. Different POV.

Well, I have nothing to add... for now! Except of

!

Matt Nasty · « **Reply #850 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 02:42 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Mar 19, 2009, 08:48 AM

The funny thing is that I can't even imagine why Ennis would NOT be gay. Different POV.

same for me

holyfool · « **Reply #851 on:** Mar 19, 2009, 07:20 PM »

- was he or not? who cares!

- i think the poor man needed a shrink and a wake up call. life is way too short to lack away its pleasures and dismiss people that really give

a f*** about you. ( excuse my language ) . his misery and destiny was his own fault.

tpe · « **Reply #852 on:** Mar 20, 2009, 09:06 AM »

Quote from: holyfool on Mar 19, 2009, 07:20 PM

- was he or not? who cares!

There is more than a grain of truth to this...

But for those who think that homsecuality is evil, it probably does, unfortunately...

holyfool · « **Reply #853 on:** Mar 20, 2009, 07:11 PM »

- right on! those evil damned people that think homosexuality is damn evil.

jeffjoe · « **Reply #854 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:59 PM »

Was a long time ago i don't ask me this question ... Can someone have a sexual contact with other person of the same gender, without being gay... and more... could develop an emotional bond that first relationship? At the end I think Ennis was gay ... highly suppressed, but gay

vedrana · « **Reply #855 on:** May 19, 2009, 05:06 AM »

Quote from: jeffjoe on May 18, 2009, 10:59 PM

Was a long time ago i don't ask me this question ... Can someone have a sexual contact with other person of the same gender, without being gay... and more... could develop an emotional bond that first relationship? At the end I think Ennis was gay ... highly suppressed, but gay

I think that it can - that 2 persons can have the sexual contact and emotional bond! And not being gay!

But it's only me!

tpe · « **Reply #856 on:** May 19, 2009, 07:04 AM »

Quote from: jeffjoe on May 18, 2009, 10:59 PM

Was a long time ago i don't ask me this question ... Can someone have a sexual contact with other person of the same gender, without being gay... and more... could develop an emotional bond that first relationship? At the end I think Ennis was gay ... highly suppressed, but gay

Well, that's a good question. I differ a bit from loreen and many other members in saying that I don't think it's possible -- especially on a deep emotional level. Sex is one thing -- straight men can claim to have tried sex with other men. But none of them will confess a deeper emotional bond -- like love.

Well... Perhaps bisexuality is another option...

jeffjoe · « **Reply #857 on:** May 19, 2009, 02:04 PM »

Quote from: loreen on May 19, 2009, 05:06 AM

I think that it can - that 2 persons can have the sexual contact and emotional bond! And not being gay!

But it's only me!

What means to be gay anyway... because I am really confused on this matter, well i guess i am gay, but i really don't know can one person born as straight and turn into a gay on the way it's something than i've not discover yet

vedrana · « **Reply #858 on:** May 19, 2009, 02:19 PM »

Quote from: jeffjoe on May 19, 2009, 02:04 PM

What means to be gay anyway... because I am really confused on this matter, well i guess i am gay, but i really don't know can one person born as straight and turn into a gay on the way it's something than i've not discover yet

Well, I have some theories....

jeffjoe · « **Reply #859 on:** May 19, 2009, 02:27 PM »

Quote from: loreen on May 19, 2009, 02:19 PM

Well, I have some theories....

Let me know it please

vedrana · « **Reply #860 on:** May 19, 2009, 02:38 PM »

Quote from: jeffjoe on May 19, 2009, 02:27 PM

Let me know it please

I have to work on it still, but maybe one day I'll publish them here...

Sorry!

lancecowboy · « **Reply #861 on:** May 19, 2009, 02:47 PM »

Quote from: jeffjoe on May 19, 2009, 02:04 PM

What means to be gay anyway... because I am really confused on this matter, well i guess i am gay, but i really don't know can one person born as straight and turn into a gay on the way it's something than i've not discover yet

I don't know if Ennis was gay or not, but it's not about the label, but the love that matters to me.

Whatever his sexuality, Ennis Del Mar was in love with Jack Twist, and is attracted only to Jack Twist and no one else. He could perform his "duties" with Alma and Cassie, but not with passion, unless he was thinking about Jack.

It doesn't matter to me whether Ennis is gay or bi or whatever. What draws me to him is his constancy in love, his passion under the quiet exterior, and his yearning to be free even bound by a chain of fear.

To the world, he can be gay, straight, bi, closeted, whatever. To Jack Twist, Ennis Del Mar was simply the love that he couldn't, wouldn't ever quit.

vedrana · « **Reply #862 on:** May 19, 2009, 03:13 PM »

Quote from: lancecowboy on May 19, 2009, 02:47 PM

I don't know if Ennis was gay or not, but it's not about the label, but the love that matters to me.

Whatever his sexuality, Ennis Del Mar was in love with Jack Twist, and is attracted only to Jack Twist and no one else. He could perform his "duties" with Alma and Cassie, but not with passion, unless he was thinking about Jack.

It doesn't matter to me whether Ennis is gay or bi or whatever. What draws me to him is his constancy in love, his passion under the quiet exterior, and his yearning to be free even bound by a chain of fear.

To the world, he can be gay, straight, bi, closeted, whatever. To Jack Twist, Ennis Del Mar was simply the love that he couldn't, wouldn't ever quit.

Lovely said Lance!

And I agree!

tpe · « **Reply #863 on:** May 20, 2009, 07:34 AM »

Quote from: jeffjoe on May 19, 2009, 02:04 PM

What means to be gay anyway... because I am really confused on this matter, well i guess i am gay, but i really don't know can one person born as straight and turn into a gay on the way it's something than i've not discover yet

One thing I have learned from life is that sexuality can be quite a complex affair, although I do think that most people do have a distinct preference. It is this preference that pretty much defines gayness or straightness, even as this preference can accomodate a certain amount of ambiguity (not much for the vast majority of us, I would hazard.) This is at the heart of why we use the term sexual ORIENTATION.

Bearing in mind this "definition", I do believe that a large part of sexual orientation is congenital -- and I believe this because of my own personal knowledge of my own family (going back to at least 3 generations) as well as similar evidence from some very good friends.

With or without this or the use of "labels", sexual preference is a very real thing. It drives most of us to make important life choices, and predetermines how and who we choose to love.

myprivatejack · « **Reply #864 on:** May 20, 2009, 11:00 AM »

Quote from: lancecowboy on May 19, 2009, 02:47 PM

I don't know if Ennis was gay or not, but it's not about the label, but the love that matters to me.

Whatever his sexuality, Ennis Del Mar was in love with Jack Twist, and is attracted only to Jack Twist and no one else. He could perform his "duties" with Alma and Cassie, but not with passion, unless he was thinking about Jack.

It doesn't matter to me whether Ennis is gay or bi or whatever. What draws me to him is his constancy in love, his passion under the quiet exterior, and his yearning to be free even bound by a chain of fear.

To the world, he can be gay, straight, bi, closeted, whatever. To Jack Twist, Ennis Del Mar was simply the love that he couldn't, wouldn't ever quit.

I rhink this is the most sensible and sensitive thing to say about all this;beyond all labels in human sexuality and general behaviour,is love what matters the most.From this point onwards,the sexuality of this love's subject is only a mere circumstance.

vedrana · « **Reply #865 on:** May 21, 2009, 01:02 AM »

Quote from: Ranchand1 on May 20, 2009, 08:00 PM

You said a mouth full there MPJ!!! <quoted for emphasis>

Wish I would a thunk to said it first.

Yup! Agree!

tpe · « **Reply #866 on:** May 21, 2009, 07:22 AM »

Quote from: myprivatejack on May 20, 2009, 11:00 AM

I rhink this is the most sensible and sensitive thing to say about all this;beyond all labels in human sexuality and general behaviour,is love what matters the most.From this point onwards,the sexuality of this love's subject is only a mere circumstance.

That is true in principle. But in real life, the gender of the person whom you love matters very much -- people have died and continue to die because of it. What you say is true, if only there is freedom to love anyone you choose. That NOT being the case, human sexuality and even labels matter a great deal and are not just mere circumstance that signify nothing.

lancecowboy · « **Reply #867 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:12 AM »

Quote from: tpe on May 21, 2009, 07:22 AM

That is true in principle. But in real life, the gender of the person whom you love matters very much -- people have died and continue to die because of it. What you say is true, if only there is freedom to love anyone you choose. That NOT being the case, human sexuality and even labels matter a great deal and are not just mere circumstance that signify nothing.

What you say is true, tpe, about the circumstances, but NOT about the love. It is similarly true when applied to other labels of race, creed, etc. When we speak of labels, we speak not of the thing being labeled, but of the prejudices in us that cause us to label. It is what Immanuel Kant referred to in his distinction between noumenon and phenomenon. Our labels are our responses to the phenomenon, not the noumenon itself. "Gay" has nothing to do with the real Ennis, only our response to his love of Jack, a man. It says nothing about that love.

Labels are what get people killed, Protestants and Catholics, Communists and Fascists, Straight or Gay, etc. They divide people, when they should strife to understand one another. They group people into pigeon holes, when they should be setting people free - free of chains that tie them to stereotypes, free of boundaries that keep them from being whoever they want to be, free of limits that says they can do this but not that.

When we are free of labels, then we will be truly free, free at last.

myprivatejack · « **Reply #868 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:58 AM »

Quote from: Ranchand1 on May 20, 2009, 08:00 PM

You said a mouth full there MPJ!!! <quoted for emphasis>

Wish I would a thunk to said it first.

,handsome¡. I suppose that any sensitive person could have said or think this first¡.It's only to be able to pass away from any labels that divided persons and that have made so much damage from the oldest times.It's a question of not creating ghettos,and these are very often created for the same persons who are inside these ghettos...A difficult task still,but several little steps have been made...

myprivatejack · « **Reply #869 on:** May 21, 2009, 11:09 AM »

Thomas and Andrew; I think both of you are right...Very often,persons who belong to any concrete ethnic or whatever group,need to join themselves,as a way of recognising each other,and sometimes,to help each other too.Because difference,or the fear to difference,to the unknown,has been the "battle horse" that other persons included in "normal parametres" have used to marginalise,depict when not simply destroy who have this other label of "different".Surely for an unconscious fear of being in their innest self just like these ones...This and the power wishes have always been what have create and developed wars;the rich against the poor,the powerful against the weak,the "normal" against the "different".Maybe is something inherent with human being,but it's time to change it,or at least trying to change it.And sometimes one must begin for the semantic,as the first step to be free of labels and of what they mean.

Author Topic: was ennis gay ? (Read 667094 times)

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