Topic: Thoughts on Ennis's Divorce

[tpe]

Aintfoolin' your post brought tears to my eyes.  :\'(

Thomas I know what you mean. I still see Mexico as a means of him taking control- not necessarily a screw you to Ennis but more of a way to be in charge. It breaks my heart even more to think that he had to resort to that to feel "wanted" and know that he wasn't going to be rejected.

Good point.  When we act impulsively in the face of adversity, it is usually because we wish to reassert some control over a situation.  Such is the case with Jack.  And in many cases in real life, we really live to regret our impulsive actions.

It was also a matter of pride for Jack.  His pride and self-respect had been brought to a low point by the fiasco.  When self-esteem is at a low ebb and pride is wounded, we don't care to stoop low if we can somehow regain some degree of self-determination in the face of uncertainty and failure.

[tpe]

I completely agree. And I've been in a relationship where I kept a lot of things to myself to maintain the balance and not rock the boat. Jack always took his cues from Ennis and acted accordingly. This, combined with his utter heartbreak at finding the situation was not what he thought left him little option but to turn and run. As always (though ironically he never knew it), Ennis held all the cards here.

It is cruelly apparent in this scene.

I wonder if Ennis ever did know?  Assuming he never knew, would his knowing would have made him more understanding and considerate of Jack, especially in this scene?

[FlwrChild]

Oh God, I'd have to think so. Or at least hope so.

[tpe]

Oh God, I'd have to think so. Or at least hope so.

I do think part of the tragedy was that Ennis never understood that he alone had the power to set things aright.  Either he never knew or that he was too scared to know or understand the full implications and ramifications of his actions, such as in this scene...

[FlwrChild]

I do think part of the tragedy was that Ennis never understood that he alone had the power to set things aright.  Either he never knew or that he was too scared to know or understand the full implications and ramifications of his actions, such as in this scene...

I absolutely agree. And I don't think he knew (or was able or willing to see, as you point out). I think he always believed himself to be a man with no choices, living the life he had to lead under the circumstances. The fact that he maintained a relationship with Jack at all given this 'conditioning' speaks volumes about his love for him. It is, to me, doubly ironic that they understood each other in ways that no one else ever did while at the same time, I don't think either of them realized the depth of feeling the other one had for him.

[tpe]

It is indeed ironic that Ennis didn't even look at the divorce with Alma as a choice!  He had to be dragged into it.  It is not surprising that he treated Jack this way, if we are to understand his closed outlook -- as if he were a trapped animal.

[aintfoolin]

He let his paranoia get the best of him IMO enough to blind him to  Jack's obvious pain and hurt. There was no attempt to rein it in and Jack was'nt willing to push it further or  make his feelings about it known  verbally  at that time, but as far as I'm concerned Jack had already done his part by driving so far to be with Ennis. What more could he ask of Jack. The ball was definitly in Ennis court here. With a little thought and understanding he could have handled the situation with a little more tact, sparing Jack the humiliation he caused. He can thank his lucky stars that Jack was hopelessly  in love with him but he paid the price for it in this scene. Crying in that truck, he had to question his dedication to this man putting him in this position, hence the tears.

It is indeed ironic that Ennis didn't even look at the divorce with Alma as a choice!  He had to be dragged into it.  It is not surprising that he treated Jack this way, if we are to understand his closed outlook -- as if he were a trapped animal.

[aintfoolin]

Well , Jack was trying to do right by him and he wether he knew it or not he did have choices to make in life as a grown man. As the father of two young girls he should have learned something about love without conditions. Jack deserved better but I have sympathy for both in their struggle.

[tpe]

Well , Jack was trying to do right by him and he wether he knew it or not he did have choices to make in life as a grown man. As the father of two young girls he should have learned something about love without conditions. Jack deserved better but I have sympathy for both in their struggle.

You are right.  As a father, he should have learned something about unconditional love.  It is a tragedy that he not carry this lesson over to his dealings with Jack... 

[welshwitch]

I have a feeling the divorce would impact more strongly on Ennis than it might have on other men. He lost his own parents when he was very young and married young too - if he was trying to rebuild the family he's lost it would have been devastating to have this new family snatched away and be driven out of it, specially when he later has to see Alma rebuilding a family with Monroe. Which makes his rage in and after the Thanksgiving scene even more significant.

[tpe]

I have a feeling the divorce would impact more strongly on Ennis than it might have on other men. He lost his own parents when he was very young and married young too - if he was trying to rebuild the family he's lost it would have been devastating to have this new family snatched away and be driven out of it, specially when he later has to see Alma rebuilding a family with Monroe. Which makes his rage in and after the Thanksgiving scene even more significant.

I think this was why he let things be until the very end when Alma took the initiative.  Ennis needed a sense of family badly -- phychologically, it was an imperative.  This worked against Jack, and it was Jack's burden to remain also an outsider, as far as as Ennis's family was concerned.  And yet he probably had the most reason to claim Ennis as his very own, because he had Ennis's love.

 

[LuvJackNasty]

It is indeed ironic that Ennis didn't even look at the divorce with Alma as a choice!  He had to be dragged into it.  It is not surprising that he treated Jack this way, if we are to understand his closed outlook -- as if he were a trapped animal.

To me, his cover was blown, so to speak. He no longer has the guise of being the norm. Here he's divorced and then this man (not just any man mind you) is going around asking where he moved to. I get so torn between feeling sorry for Ennis for being so trapped in his fear and wanting to slap him for not only rejecting Jack but making him feel that Ennis is ashamed of him and this thing (that one is my overriding emotion though)

[tpe]

To me, his cover was blown, so to speak. He no longer has the guise of being the norm. Here he's divorced and then this man (not just any man mind you) is going around asking where he moved to. I get so torn between feeling sorry for Ennis for being so trapped in his fear and wanting to slap him for not only rejecting Jack but making him feel that Ennis is ashamed of him and this thing (that one is my overriding emotion though)

Could he acted this way because he somehow blamed Jack for the divorce -- at least subconsciously?  I think this is a possibility... 

[welshwitch]

I can imagine that if the divorce hadn't happened, Ennis would have gone on as they'd done - while he was married he seemed happy to ditch a job when he wanted to see Jack; it was only later, when he had no real home and had partly lost the girls, that he started t cite the impossibility of getting away - though of course by then he was (relatively) older so maybe it would have been more of a problem anyway.

But IMO the divorce left him feeling exposed and vulnerable, and if Jack turned up and intruded into his Riverton life maybe that frightened him.

[manhattangirl]

OMG,

I can't agree more.  after the divorce, he wrote to Jack, and told him.  Why?  He must have known Jack would come back for him, and again Ennis hurts Jack, by even refusing to see him later and talk about it, his kids were there, give me a break.  Ennis torture Jack, like he's tortured. 

I know I seem hard on Ennis, but this happens so many times when someone loves someone else, we hurt them, why?  To find out if we matter to another  human being, that we're important to someone else, so we take away the one thing that we know the other wants.  Ennis knew how to twist Jack's mind.

Manhattangirl

[tpe]

Interesting thought, manhattangirl.  We do tend to hurt those we love many a time --many times for precisely the same reason you mentioned.  It's part of being human.  It could be unconscious or unintentional, but it hurts all the same...

[FlwrChild]

Once again, wonderful posts from everyone.

And you're right, manhattangirl and tpe. I hadn't quite looked at it from that perspective. It is definitely unconscious on Ennis's part, imo. He is just blindly stumbling along the path he sees laid out for him (sometimes I think we can make it easier for ourselves if we tell ourselves we have no choice - it removes responsibility) but it absolutely hurts Jack just as much as it would if intentionally inflicted. A broken heart is just as broken regardless of intent.

[tpe]

Well, in a sense, Ennis did the same thing with Alma, who was also on the receiving end.  It is interesting to contrast Alma's and Jack's reactions, but we see the same fundamental hurt in both of them. Perhaps they should have confronted Ennis sooner. It may have helped.

[FlwrChild]

It's a little ironic that Jack and Alma both took their cues from Ennis and allowed him to control the relationships. And yet Ennis never had any sense of control over anything and in fact, felt trapped by what he saw as his set duty that he was 'stuck with'.

[welshwitch]

The trouble with Ennis is that he's both blinkered and stubborn, so once setr on a course he sticks to it without looking to either side. If you're involved with someone like that, they control you without realizing it, but if you're closely involved there's little you can do except play by their rules. Alma eventually did the only thing possible in the circumstances - gave up on him. Jack loved him more so stuck around and took more - whether he'd have been driven to give up too we'll never know.

[tpe]

Did Ennis realized how much pain this caused Jack?  I suspect he did, but he felt helpless.  Rather unfortunate, because he should have realized that he wasn't helpless.  He did not have the will to choose...