Author Topic: The Shirts, the meaining (Read 79840 times)

manhattangirl · « **on:** Jan 15, 2007, 12:51 PM »

Hi,

Maybe this was discussed before, so please bear with me. Jack took Ennis's shirt when their first summer ended, and he kept it for twenty years. Jack's commitment to Ennis began then. A spiritual commitment, Ennis reaction to the separation was more of a physical one, trying to bring it up and out of his system.

When Ennis went to Jack's parent home after his death, I wonder did he understand then what he really meant to Jack, when he found the shirts with his blood stains still on them. It's kind of sad to me that then and only then he understood how much he was loved by Jack.

And the other thing that struck me, the shirts were in plain sight by both Jack's parents, and they were never touched, thrown out, burned up, they stayed there on the hanger. I believe his mother was the protector of those shirts when Jack wasn't there.

Finally, when Ennis came back downstairs with the shirts in his hand, and his father mentioned that Jacks remains were to be buried in the family plot, was that the trade off for the shirts?

I may be going over old ground with some of you, but I'm new at this, and just reading the short story and viewing the film, I'm full of questions.

Mainhattangirl

aintfoolin · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 15, 2007, 03:39 PM »

I think at some point Jack had to have confided in his mom about his relationship with Ennis. Even if she found the shirts while cleaning etc ,why would the blood after 20 years still be on them? She never washed them, or tried to remove the stains, which tells me that Jack told her the significance of them and to leave remain where they were. He made several trips over the years to visit his parents and probably checked to make sure his wishes were carried out. I beleive this is how she knew to "lead" Ennis to the shirts when he finally met her.
I do not feel Mr. Twist was thinking in terms of a "trade off" but a contempt for the relationship or that he even knew the shirts were there. It was the mother who kept Jack's secrets and the shirts. The way she stepped outside when Ennis arrived says that she knew who he was right away and spoke to him as if she knew him. ( "you'll want a cup of coffee?) Ennis knew Jack loved him, but did'nt know how much until he was led to finding the shirts. Jack confirmed his love for Ennis from the grave with his mother's help. IMO

tpe · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 10:15 AM »

I do agree that Jack's mom must have known about the shirts, as discussed elsewhere. I don't think Jack had any intenion or had the will to keep his love quiet. That's why he always talked about bringing Ennis home.

Jack's mother must have known that Ennis would find ths shirts in the bedroom. She kept it like when he was a boy for a special reason.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 10:43 AM »

This is correct tpe. Her saying this to Ennis was a "clue" for him to find the shirts,. She knew that "keeping his room like when he was a boy" would be key words to spark Ennis's curiosity about Jack's childhood, assuring that he went upstairs with this inviting gesture of kindness.

jacks_key · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 10:58 AM »

The kindness of Jack's mother toward Ennis is one of the most poignant parts of the film for me. It's obvious (to me, anyway) that Mrs. Twist knew how special Ennis was to Jack; just the look on her face when Ennis comes downstairs with the shirts tells so much. Plus how she speaks to him, touches him gently, etc. The very first time I watched this, I was with my sister, and I burst out crying and said, "She understands...she understands!" Sis was nodding at crying right along with me.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 12:07 PM »

Yes, I agree with you, her kindness to him and his tears went straight to the heart. i cried too. can't help it really. It is a testament of how deeply Jack's love for Ennis affected all of us. Through the shirts we can actually see, as well as feel how Jack felt about him. And the way he displayed them, his shirt covering Ennis's...OMG I'm tearing up now just thinking of it. Jack was so full of life in the film I did not expect him to die at the end. From the moment Ennis received the postcard, i was so in shock. When Ennis found the shirts I totally lost it and I'm not uasally a *movie crier*.

jacks_key · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 01:02 PM »

aintfoolin, all I have to do is just see a picture of Ennis holding those shirts, and I want to cry!

aintfoolin · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 16, 2007, 01:11 PM »

So thank goodness for this forum , ennisjack.com ,which allows us to express and share our joy and sadness with likeminded individuals over this beautiful , heartfelt film.Thanks.

tpe · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 08:53 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Jan 16, 2007, 10:43 AM

This is correct tpe. Her saying this to Ennis was a "clue" for him to find the shirts,. She knew that "keeping his room like when he was a boy" would be key words to spark Ennis's curiosity about Jack's childhood, assuring that he went upstairs with this inviting gesture of kindness.

In both ss and film, it was she who brought up the subject of visiting Jack's room, no? She certainly was guiding Ennis to the shirts, IMO. Her look of recognition when Ennis returned from the room with the shirts is very telling.

welshwitch · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 02:21 PM »

And since she probably knew her husband would never allow Ennis to take Jack's ashes to BBM, the shirts were all that she could give him of Jack that had any significance to Ennis. Jack's room looks as if he walked out one day and even when he returned never changed anything or left anything there other than some work clothes, presumably for when he helped his father on the farm.

The shirts are the only thing linking Jack with Ennis, and the only thing Jack cared enough about to keep hidden for all those years.

tpe · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 17, 2007, 02:29 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jan 17, 2007, 02:21 PM

And since she probably knew her husband would never allow Ennis to take Jack's ashes to BBM, the shirts were all that she could give him of Jack that had any significance to Ennis. Jack's room looks as if he walked out one day and even when he returned never changed anything or left anything there other than some work clothes, presumably for when he helped his father on the farm.

The shirts are the only thing linking Jack with Ennis, and the only thing Jack cared enough about to keep hidden for all those years.

In this way, it epresented Jack's hope that they be together.

Twisted · « **Reply #11 on:** Sep 21, 2007, 04:51 AM »

I know, this may have been discussed here, but I just watched BBM, and I noticed that when Ennis finds the shirts, his shirt is under and Jack's on the top, and in the end, when he says Jack I swear, Jack's shirt is under and Ennis's is on the top? Why he changed the shirts?

Any clues?

Btw, I'm crying here my heart out, it was long time ago, when I saw BBM, so all the sadness came again :\'( :\'(

myprivatejack · « **Reply #12 on:** Sep 21, 2007, 05:37 AM »

¡Hi,Twisted¡ #$ Yes,I suppose this topic is sure to have been discussed before,but haven´t read anything about it.IMO,Jack hung his shirt above Ennis´as a way of protect it and also as a way of giving him an embrace through the clothes.After Jack´s death,Ennis catched the intention,so he did the same,so then it was an eternal embrace between them,as if they were together somehow forever...

tpe · « **Reply #13 on:** Sep 21, 2007, 06:38 AM »

Hello Twisted. I do think this has been discussed before, but I can't remember right now... I'll have to look at some of the old threads...

Initially, the Jack's shirt protected Ennis's shirt, because Jack wanted to protect Ennis's shirt as much as he can.

By switching the shirts in the end, we now see that Ennis now makes the effort to protect Jack's shirt with his own.

By extension, Ennis is now the sole keeper of what remains of the power of BBM.

The switching of the shirts is an effective way of emphasizing this.

lamusica · « **Reply #14 on:** Sep 21, 2007, 11:39 AM »

Yes, I remember that this thread was hot when I first joined the forum about 15 months ago. The prevailing thought was as you have expressed it, tpe. That explanation makes the shirts even more poignant.
The first time I saw the film, i only noticed the shirts. I didn't realize the sleeves had actually been pushed down inside the sleeves of Jack's shirt. When that realization hit, it drove the whole meaning into the realm of symbolism. Jack had deliberately positioned the shirts in a way that showed he encompassed Ennis -- Ennis was totally inside of him, just as Ennis's shirt was totally inside Jack's. So, when Ennis reverses them, the reverse is true. Now, it is Jack who is totally inside Ennis. And isn't that true? Jack lives inside of Ennis, and always will.

manhattangirl · « **Reply #15 on:** Sep 21, 2007, 09:05 PM »

This scene always reminded me of how a child would take something and hide it away, because it was something of importance to them, and the child would sneak away to a hidden place to touch, gaze at that precious object, and dream.

This was Jack, the more romantic of the two, the true lover, the dreamer. Ennis becomes the same way, when he finds the shirts, the romantic, the dreamer, the true lover.

jackster · « **Reply #16 on:** Sep 23, 2007, 03:55 PM »

This has been mentioned several times, but just in case you've missed it. It has been cited with some authority that the shirt reversal, (Ennis inside Jack's, then Jack inside Ennis's) was Heath's idea. Don't recall who said this but was pretty legit I think, may have been Ang.

proulxfan · « **Reply #17 on:** Sep 23, 2007, 07:07 PM »

I saw the reference to the reversal of the shirts being Heath Ledger's idea in the Advocate interview with Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana.

lamusica · « **Reply #18 on:** Sep 23, 2007, 09:27 PM »

Well, then....Kudos to Heath. I think that is the one detail of this movie that best embodies the whole meaning of the story. When we love someone, we encompass them and vice-versa. This tells us something about Heath, then. He is a true romantic!

jackster · « **Reply #19 on:** Sep 24, 2007, 06:08 AM »

Quote from: lamusica on Sep 23, 2007, 09:27 PM

Well, then....Kudos to Heath. . . . . This tells us something about Heath, then. He is a true romantic!

You bet lamusica! One of the reasons I think he wanted so much to play this role. In my minds eye I can just see Heath suggesting this change in his kind of shy, but still determined thoughtful way.

tpe · « **Reply #20 on:** Sep 24, 2007, 08:06 AM »

Quote from: proulxfan on Sep 23, 2007, 07:07 PM

I saw the reference to the reversal of the shirts being Heath Ledger's idea in the Advocate interview with Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana.

Yes, it was his idea. It gives us a feeling of how receptive people were to ideas in the making of this movie.

tpe · « **Reply #21 on:** Sep 24, 2007, 08:08 AM »

Quote from: lamusica on Sep 21, 2007, 11:39 AM

Yes, I remember that this thread was hot when I first joined the forum about 15 months ago. The prevailing thought was as you have expressed it, tpe. That explanation makes the shirts even more poignant.
The first time I saw the film, i only noticed the shirts. I didn't realize the sleeves had actually been pushed down inside the sleeves of Jack's shirt. When that realization hit, it drove the whole meaning into the realm of symbolism. Jack had deliberately positioned the shirts in a way that showed he encompassed Ennis -- Ennis was totally inside of him, just as Ennis's shirt was totally inside Jack's. So, when Ennis reverses them, the reverse is true. Now, it is Jack who is totally inside Ennis. And isn't that true? Jack lives inside of Ennis, and always will.

Beautiful.

tpe · « **Reply #22 on:** Sep 24, 2007, 08:15 AM »

Quote from: manhattangirl on Sep 21, 2007, 09:05 PM

This scene always reminded me of how a child would take something and hide it away, because it was something of importance to them, and the child would sneak away to a hidden place to touch, gaze at that precious object, and dream.

This was Jack, the more romantic of the two, the true lover, the dreamer. Ennis becomes the same way, when he finds the shirts, the romantic, the dreamer, the true lover.

I think most of us here can relate to what manhattangirl said in the above post.

It has to be a hidden place -- away from the eyes of the world. It is the place of dreams.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #23 on:** Sep 25, 2007, 06:34 AM »

I can certainly relate. I wonder how many times Jack visited his *magic place* when he was home at LF just to feel and reflect ? His closet secretly held his hopes and dreams all those years. Probably felt glad that he had the shirt, yet sad that Ennis was'nt in it.

myprivatejack · « **Reply #24 on:** Sep 25, 2007, 10:02 AM »

I can relate too and,in general,all the persons who believe in the evoking power of objects.When we´re not near the one we love,we need to see his belongings,to touch them,even to smell them-as in Ennis´case with the shirts...-;although the souvenirs are in our mind and our hearts,we need it because it´s like we´re in touch with this person.And it´s sure that Jack must touch and see Ennis´shirt a lot,unfortunately for him¡

tpe · « **Reply #25 on:** Sep 25, 2007, 04:01 PM »

Good points, MPJ and aintfoolin.

I can imagine Jack going back again and again to the bleakness of LF. I wonder whether he did it especially to see the shirts. Perhaps it renewed him as no other power can...

athena0204 · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 17, 2008, 07:17 PM »

Quote from: lamusica on Sep 23, 2007, 09:27 PM

Well, then....Kudos to Heath. I think that is the one detail of this movie that best embodies the whole meaning of the story. When we love someone, we encompass them and vice-versa. This tells us something about Heath, then. He is a true romantic!

The whole thing with the shirts is so beautiful. Jack having those shirts for all those years is another thing that goes to show how much Ennis meant to him, how much he truely, deeply love Ennis with a love so pure, that nothing could ever take it away...nothing could ever come close to that deep, unbreakable bond Jack and Ennis had. And when Ennis takes the shirts home and reverses them...he saying, you'll be in my heart forever, Jack. Their love survives death. And yeah, Heath was such a romantic...he was such a deep, thoughtful, sensitive person, and that's why he was perfect for the part of Ennis...I can't imagine anyone else portraying Jack and Ennis besides Jake and Heath. When you watch BBM, you don't think of it as a movie...you see Jack and Ennis...that's how alive and real these characters are. Thank you, Heath...may God bless your sweet, wonderful, wise soul.

christie wood · « **Reply #27 on:** Mar 18, 2008, 07:32 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Sep 25, 2007, 06:34 AM

I can certainly relate. I wonder how many times Jack visited his *magic place* when he was home at LF just to feel and reflect ? His closet secretly held his hopes and dreams all those years. Probably felt glad that he had the shirt, yet sad that Ennis was'nt in it.

I agree, the shirts were hidden in a special and "magic" place.....that held all his hopes and dreams. Beautifully put.

christie wood · « **Reply #28 on:** Mar 18, 2008, 07:35 AM »

Quote from: athena0204 on Mar 17, 2008, 07:17 PM

The whole thing with the shirts is so beautiful. Jack having those shirts for all those years is another thing that goes to show how much Ennis meant to him, how much he truely, deeply love Ennis with a love so pure, that nothing could ever take it away...nothing could ever come close to that deep, unbreakable bond Jack and Ennis had. And when Ennis takes the shirts home and reverses them...he saying, you'll be in my heart forever, Jack. Their love survives death. And yeah, Heath was such a romantic...he was such a deep, thoughtful, sensitive person, and that's why he was perfect for the part of Ennis...I can't imagine anyone else portraying Jack and Ennis besides Jake and Heath. When you watch BBM, you don't think of it as a movie...you see Jack and Ennis...that's how alive and real these characters are. Thank you, Heath...may God bless your sweet, wonderful, wise soul.

Beautiful, I agree with everything you said.....

tpe · « **Reply #29 on:** Mar 18, 2008, 07:49 AM »

Quote from: athena0204 on Mar 17, 2008, 07:17 PM

The whole thing with the shirts is so beautiful. Jack having those shirts for all those years is another thing that goes to show how much Ennis meant to him, how much he truely, deeply love Ennis with a love so pure, that nothing could ever take it away...nothing could ever come close to that deep, unbreakable bond Jack and Ennis had. And when Ennis takes the shirts home and reverses them...he saying, you'll be in my heart forever, Jack. Their love survives death. And yeah, Heath was such a romantic...he was such a deep, thoughtful, sensitive person, and that's why he was perfect for the part of Ennis...I can't imagine anyone else portraying Jack and Ennis besides Jake and Heath. When you watch BBM, you don't think of it as a movie...you see Jack and Ennis...that's how alive and real these characters are. Thank you, Heath...may God bless your sweet, wonderful, wise soul.

The fact that we don't know the significance of the shirts until the very end it what lends power to the symbolism, no? All the while, we never really had a glimpse of Jack's commitment until Ennis discovers the shirts. And we never suspected the depths of Ennis's faithfulness until he discovers them.