Topic: The Shirts, the meaining

[christie wood]

The fact that we don't know the significance of the shirts until the very end it what lends power to the symbolism, no?  All the while, we never really had a glimpse of Jack's commitment until Ennis discovers the shirts.  And we never suspected the depths of Ennis's faithfulness until he discovers them.

I totally agree with this.  I didnt get the fact that Jack had taken Ennis's shirt at the beginning - so Ennis's discovery was a heartbreaking shock to me, and it was difficult to gather my thoughts as Ennis's heart nearly stopped when he realised the significance of what Jack had done, all those years ago. 

To see Ennis so utterly pulled open by his discovery was powerful beyond words - this was confirmation that Jack had truly loved him throughout all those long, bitter years of sorrow and yearning, and Ennis had loved him.

[tpe]

I totally agree with this.  I didnt get the fact that Jack had taken Ennis's shirt at the beginning - so Ennis's discovery was a heartbreaking shock to me, and it was difficult to gather my thoughts as Ennis's heart nearly stopped when he realised the significance of what Jack had done, all those years ago. 

To see Ennis so utterly pulled open by his discovery was powerful beyond words - this was confirmation that Jack had truly loved him throughout all those long, bitter years of sorrow and yearning, and Ennis had loved him.

The most amazing thing is to finally see Ennis as he truly is: a man whose love was hidden under so many layers of hesitation and fear, but who loved strongly and faithfully nonetheless.  It took the shirts to finally pull away the veil...

[christie wood]

The most amazing thing is to finally see Ennis as he truly is: a man whose love was hidden under so many layers of hesitation and fear, but who loved strongly and faithfully nonetheless.  It took the shirts to finally pull away the veil...

Oh thats really beautifully said, Thomas.   

[manhattangirl]

Jack was the most human and the most spiritual of anyone in this story, a dedicated lover, weak in some ways, but strong and steadfast.  He knew from that first summer, that he loved Ennis.  No doubts, no hesitation, and honored it by the shirts he stole away.

What was it like in that  bedroom year after year, was he being 19 again even at the age of 25, 30, 35 and the years in between?  Leaving Ennis every year to go home to L.F., to his bedroom, and to those shirts.  Or was it holding on to Ennis just a little longer? 

If it's not for the fact that a real part of Ennis was on those shirts, his blood,  would Jack have taken it? His spirituality was far ahead of us at first glance.  It was that spirituality, that continuing connection to Ennis that compelled Jack to take and hold on to those shirts. 

There are always two sides to a story, and Jack's is one of a belief in a better place, commitment and hope  in finding that place, homage to the symbols of that love, pain and surrender to the reality.   

I love Jack. 

[athena0204]

Jack was the most human and the most spiritual of anyone in this story, a dedicated lover, weak in some ways, but strong and steadfast.  He knew from that first summer, that he loved Ennis.  No doubts, no hesitation, and honored it by the shirts he stole away.

What was it like in that  bedroom year after year, was he being 19 again even at the age of 25, 30, 35 and the years in between?  Leaving Ennis every year to go home to L.F., to his bedroom, and to those shirts.  Or was it holding on to Ennis just a little longer? 

If it's not for the fact that a real part of Ennis was on those shirts, his blood,  would Jack have taken it? His spirituality was far ahead of us at first glance.  It was that spirituality, that continuing connection to Ennis that compelled Jack to take and hold on to those shirts. 

There are always two sides to a story, and Jack's is one of a belief in a better place, commitment and hope  in finding that place, homage to the symbols of that love, pain and surrender to the reality.   

I love Jack. 

Poor Jack, all those years he was lonely and miserable because he couldn't be with Ennis. Yes, Jack was very spirtual, and very wise. He had this true sense of wisdom and spirtuality and that was what enabled him to love the way he did, so strongly, so deeply, so purely. I feel that's the depth of the whole story, is that these two souls (Jack and Ennis) found true love because they were capable of finding it,...they had the depth of emotions and feelings to find it, they had the wisdom to know what pure, true love really is. At first glance, they seemed to be just two poor cowboys...but they were two beautiful, deep, spirtual souls. The reason they found what most people don't ever find in this life is because they had the capacity to find it and destiny brought them together at the right place and the right time. Ennis all those years knew who he truly was, knew who the only person he truely loved, Jack...but the cruelty of society and fear kept them apart when they should have never parted ways from the day they met. Those shirts symbolized that unbreakable bond they had, a bond stronger than anything in the universes, it was that true, that deep, that powerful. This world wouldn't let them be together, but those shirts were always there, one hugging the other, a testament to the truth and depth of their beautiful love.

[tpe]

Jack was the most human and the most spiritual of anyone in this story, a dedicated lover, weak in some ways, but strong and steadfast.  He knew from that first summer, that he loved Ennis.  No doubts, no hesitation, and honored it by the shirts he stole away.

What was it like in that  bedroom year after year, was he being 19 again even at the age of 25, 30, 35 and the years in between?  Leaving Ennis every year to go home to L.F., to his bedroom, and to those shirts.  Or was it holding on to Ennis just a little longer? 

If it's not for the fact that a real part of Ennis was on those shirts, his blood,  would Jack have taken it? His spirituality was far ahead of us at first glance.  It was that spirituality, that continuing connection to Ennis that compelled Jack to take and hold on to those shirts. 

There are always two sides to a story, and Jack's is one of a belief in a better place, commitment and hope  in finding that place, homage to the symbols of that love, pain and surrender to the reality.   

I love Jack. 

I admit that I do find something spiritual in Jack, in spite of all the earthiness.  He was a man of passion, but I think it went far deeper than raw sexual appetite.  The shirts in the closet certainly prove this.

What I love the most is Jack's valedictory.  To me, it is the deepest and most beautiful part of the entire story.  I never tire of quoting it:


They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddy chunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis’s pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals. Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis’s breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight, and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced until Ennis, dredging up a rusty but still usable phrase from the childhood time before his mother died, said, “Time to hit the hay, cowboy. I got a go. Come on, you’re sleepin on your feet like a horse,” and gave Jack a shake, a push, and went off in the darkness. Jack heard his spurs tremble as he mounted, the words “See you tomorrow,” and the horse’s shuddering snort, grind of hoof on stone.

Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they’d never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.


To me, the DE is the living archetype of the shirts in the closet.  For me, this is what the shirts signified for Jack.

[christie wood]

I admit that I do find something spiritual in Jack, in spite of all the earthiness.  He was a man of passion, but I think it went far deeper than raw sexual appetite.  The shirts in the closet certainly prove this.

What I love the most is Jack's valedictory.  To me, it is the deepest and most beautiful part of the entire story.  I never tire of quoting it:


They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddy chunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis’s pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals. Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis’s breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight, and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced until Ennis, dredging up a rusty but still usable phrase from the childhood time before his mother died, said, “Time to hit the hay, cowboy. I got a go. Come on, you’re sleepin on your feet like a horse,” and gave Jack a shake, a push, and went off in the darkness. Jack heard his spurs tremble as he mounted, the words “See you tomorrow,” and the horse’s shuddering snort, grind of hoof on stone.

Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they’d never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.


To me, the DE is the living archetype of the shirts in the closet.  For me, this is what the shirts signified for Jack.

Beautiful, Thomas.....those words are spine-tingling and heart-rending.

[tpe]

Beautiful, Thomas.....those words are spine-tingling and heart-rending.

Thanks Christie!  I love that passage very much.  For me, the DE really mirror's the scene where Ennis embraces the shirts in the closet in LF...

[babytammy7]

I admit that I do find something spiritual in Jack, in spite of all the earthiness.  He was a man of passion, but I think it went far deeper than raw sexual appetite.  The shirts in the closet certainly prove this.

What I love the most is Jack's valedictory.  To me, it is the deepest and most beautiful part of the entire story.  I never tire of quoting it:


They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddy chunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis’s pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals. Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis’s breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight, and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced until Ennis, dredging up a rusty but still usable phrase from the childhood time before his mother died, said, “Time to hit the hay, cowboy. I got a go. Come on, you’re sleepin on your feet like a horse,” and gave Jack a shake, a push, and went off in the darkness. Jack heard his spurs tremble as he mounted, the words “See you tomorrow,” and the horse’s shuddering snort, grind of hoof on stone.

Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they’d never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.


To me, the DE is the living archetype of the shirts in the closet.  For me, this is what the shirts signified for Jack.

Damn. You just made me cry, Thomas.  :\'(  :\'(

[manhattangirl]

I admit that I do find something spiritual in Jack, in spite of all the earthiness.  He was a man of passion, but I think it went far deeper than raw sexual appetite.  The shirts in the closet certainly prove this.

What I love the most is Jack's valedictory.  To me, it is the deepest and most beautiful part of the entire story.  I never tire of quoting it:


They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddy chunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis’s pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals. Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis’s breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight, and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced until Ennis, dredging up a rusty but still usable phrase from the childhood time before his mother died, said, “Time to hit the hay, cowboy. I got a go. Come on, you’re sleepin on your feet like a horse,” and gave Jack a shake, a push, and went off in the darkness. Jack heard his spurs tremble as he mounted, the words “See you tomorrow,” and the horse’s shuddering snort, grind of hoof on stone.

Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they’d never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.


To me, the DE is the living archetype of the shirts in the closet.  For me, this is what the shirts signified for Jack.

And we see it the exact same way, you've expressed it much better than I did.  Jack's love was pure and true, it went beyond the physical, to the spiritual.   Who would think that Jack would feel so deeply, so spiritually when we see him go off to Mexico, or take up with Randall, that human part of him, the imperfections, his weakness, and his fidelity questioned,  knocks up silly when we realize how spiritual, and how faithful he really was.   

[Matt Nasty]

I know, this may have been discussed here, but I just watched BBM, and I noticed that when Ennis finds the shirts, his shirt is under and Jack's on the top, and in the end, when he says Jack I swear, Jack's shirt is under and Ennis's is on the top? Why he changed the shirts?

Any clues?

Btw, I'm crying here my heart out, it was long time ago, when I saw BBM, so all the sadness came again :\'( :\'(

this was a person touch added by heath it wasnt scripted the idea behind it was very symbolic IMO it was like when ennis found the shirts his inside jacks it was like showing haw jack always held ennis in side of him and embrased their love and i beleive when ennis reverses this it is to show that ennis now has accepted the lova and is embrasing jake and his memory.

[aintfoolin]

 It could also be symbolic of protection. That Ennis did want to protect Jack from hurt, harm and danger. He may also be symbolically protecting the depth of each one's love he's  now come to know.

[myprivatejack]

It could also be symbolic of protection. That Ennis did want to protect Jack from hurt, harm and danger. He may also be symbolically protecting the depth of each one's love he's  now come to know.

Yes,that's what we considered in the first posts of this thread...The same than Jack was kind of protecting their love during years with the symbolic gesture of putting his shirt over Ennis's;from the very moment this latter found them,he would be protecting their love's memories and,somehow,Jack in death,more than he couldn't protect him being alive.For me,this is one of the several "penitences" he obliged himself to do when  he realised his past mistakes and his will to change them,even when it was too late to show it to Jack...

[christie wood]

Yes,that's what we considered in the first posts of this thread...The same than Jack was kind of protecting their love during years with the symbolic gesture of putting his shirt over Ennis's;from the very moment this latter found them,he would be protecting their love's memories and,somehow,Jack in death,more than he couldn't protect him being alive.For me,this is one of the several "penitences" he obliged himself to do when  he realised his past mistakes and his will to change them,even when it was too late to show it to Jack...

That's exactly it, for me, too, mpj.....Ennis was trying, in his own way, to make up for all the things he didn't do when Jack was alive....I think his declaration of "Jack, I swear" is part of that too. 

[tpe]

Damn. You just made me cry, Thomas.  :\'(  :\'(

Sorry Tammy. 

And we see it the exact same way, you've expressed it much better than I did.  Jack's love was pure and true, it went beyond the physical, to the spiritual.   Who would think that Jack would feel so deeply, so spiritually when we see him go off to Mexico, or take up with Randall, that human part of him, the imperfections, his weakness, and his fidelity questioned,  knocks up silly when we realize how spiritual, and how faithful he really was.   

I think it is precisely because of his imperfections that he reaches for the more spiritual.  His mundane passions belie a soult that is searching/yearning.

Am I correct in noting that in the DE, they wear the same shirts that Ennis finds in the closet?

 

[athena0204]

And the shirts also serve to show what a truly epic love Jack and Ennis had. It's a love that transcends everything. The shirts being there after twenty years really do justice to show how deep and true this love is, that this is the REAL thing that most people don't ever find in this life. It shows how just like the shirts were forever intertwined, so were Jack and Ennis's souls. Their souls were forever bonded, forever inseparable.

[Matt Nasty]

And the shirts also serve to show what a truly epic love Jack and Ennis had. It's a love that transcends everything. The shirts being there after twenty years really do justice to show how deep and true this love is, that this is the REAL thing that most people don't ever find in this life. It shows how just like the shirts were forever intertwined, so were Jack and Ennis's souls. Their souls were forever bonded, forever inseparable.

yep isnt it beautiful 

[aintfoolin]

Was just watching this scene today. and yes, it is beautiful. It's ironic that he came seeking a symbol of death ,and left with a symbol of life instead. Indeed, they symbolized the depth of their love for  each other. They survived the test of time like their love.

[tpe]

The shirts are a great sysmbol, no?  It certainly stood for the bond of love between them, and in the end, it respresented all that was left of BBM.

[myprivatejack]

The shirts are a great sysmbol, no?  It certainly stood for the bond of love between them, and in the end, it respresented all that was left of BBM.

I agree,Thomas. They symbolise what remains of BBM(the souvenirs of the old good times that will never come back)for the past, and the commitment of his eternal emotional bond with Jack (what he had from him from this moment onwards),for the future.

[Matt Nasty]

I agree,Thomas. They symbolise what remains of BBM(the souvenirs of the old good times that will never come back)for the past, and the commitment of his eternal emotional bond with Jack (what he had from him from this moment onwards),for the future.

agreed with everything except the bit where you said will never come back i just beleived that they will comback after enni dies and they are reunited in the after life.

[athena0204]

agreed with everything except the bit where you said will never come back i just beleived that they will comback after enni dies and they are reunited in the after life.

Yes, i'm sure they will meet again in the glorious "great beyond". Because their love was indeed beyond everything in this world.

[myprivatejack]

agreed with everything except the bit where you said will never come back i just beleived that they will comback after enni dies and they are reunited in the after life.

Yes,but I was referring to the memories and hopes that remained to Ennis in this life,that was the one he must spend without Jack in the end...

[tpe]

Yes,but I was referring to the memories and hopes that remained to Ennis in this life,that was the one he must spend without Jack in the end...

The shirts are a material testament to a love that transcends death...

[athena0204]

The shirts are a material testament to a love that transcends death...

The ultimate meaning of the shirts is that the love they had was the real thing. It was true love, as in Ennis was Jack's one true love, and Jack was Ennis's one true love. They were truly soulmates, destined for each other, destined to meet and fall in love the summer of 1963, etc. And their love was so pure, deep, strong, and powerful that it transcended absolutely everything. Nothing could ever touch it. It was beyond this life, and this world. It was eternal.

[tpe]

IN contrast with their abiding love, the physical shirts themselves looks flimsy and so temporal -- it is like this with life, I think.  True and eternal meanings are embodied in/symbolized by temporal/temporary things.  The meanings live on even as the symbols turn to dust.

[Matt Nasty]

IN contrast with their abiding love, the physical shirts themselves looks flimsy and so temporal -- it is like this with life, I think.  True and eternal meanings are embodied in/symbolized by temporal/temporary things.  The meanings live on even as the symbols turn to dust.

wow thomas lovely interpretation there

[babytammy7]

IN contrast with their abiding love, the physical shirts themselves looks flimsy and so temporal -- it is like this with life, I think.  True and eternal meanings are embodied in/symbolized by temporal/temporary things.  The meanings live on even as the symbols turn to dust.

Beautiful Thomas, and so true!!

[tpe]

Thanks zankou and Tammy.  It's funny that everytime I see shirts hung one inside the other, I can't help but think of Ennis and Jack.  For me, the shirts have become part of the central symbol of the story, which is BBM itself.

[myprivatejack]

Thanks zankou and Tammy.  It's funny that everytime I see shirts hung one inside the other, I can't help but think of Ennis and Jack.  For me, the shirts have become part of the central symbol of the story, which is BBM itself.

Yes,Thomas,it happens also to me...The shirts for me are the tangible BBM remains,what is left of their love in a material sense-letting aside the memories,the feelings,the sensations that forever Ennis would carry inside him-.The shirts are their paradise turned into some object,are like BBM itself.