Author Topic: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.  (Read 55763 times)

Offline jerasjr

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 15195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #30 on: Jan 30, 2007, 09:59 PM »

I don't know maybe I'm not making sense to a lot of you.  Ennis Del Mar is a really fascinating character to me.  IMO, it's too easy to say he was  just following convention,  couldn't it be that the use of that convention is his way to keep him from what he wanted most, Jack.  And I think he used it knowingly in fear of what he really was, and he couldn't face the idea that he was in love with a another man. 

At this point I disagree - simply from my own experience, I did it, and in that period of time.  40-50 years ago was not as open it is now, no way, no how.   A 19 y/o now has worlds more experience and is aware of worlds more options than at that period.  A young person now would not experience or know of the limited possibilities that seemingly were the options.  Am not saying that other things did not play into his decision to marry, just that they were not as primary.
"A mountain with a wolf on it stands a little taller."

Offline LuvJackNasty

  • Mod-ChickY Brigade
  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 26177
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #31 on: Jan 30, 2007, 10:00 PM »

To think of BBM as making an explicit moral statement is to misunderstand the movie completely, IMO.  One of the great powers of the story/movie is that it does not pass judgement on anyone -- not on Jack, Ennis, Alma, Lureen, Aguirre, Jack Twist, Randall, etc.  Depending on your point of view, BBM can speak many messages.  But I do think the BBM calls each of us to feel compassion for the common humanity that all of us share with each of the characters.
It may be a story of tortured love, but it is  love nonetheless.  And when does love ever come easy?  To love flippantly -- to love without pain or the risk of pain: that is NOT love by any other name.



Well said Thomas  :)
“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one ~ Imagine- J. Lennon

manhattangirl

  • Guest
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #32 on: Jan 30, 2007, 10:08 PM »
Another moralistic view, and one I have read many times, is that Ennis's and Jack's relationship is outside the law.  They are both married, but are having an "affair" which, in the end, harms everybody involved.  It makes no difference that they are both men.  Just the fact that they are carrying on with someone other than their lawful wedded partners is enough for the moralistic right to loath this movie.  Unfortunately, this is the only view some people have.
Although I don't hold with this view, I think an argument can be made that this movie is about the one great romance that comes in a person's life.  Ennis and Jack are thrown together by circumstances beyond their control, are attracted, act upon that attraction, separate, but get back together again and carry on for the rest of their life until tragedy strikes.
This interpretation goes along with the by-line of the movie - "Love is a force of nature".  in other words, it is out of their control.  Something (nature, fate, karma) is acting upon them and they are just responding mindlessly to the impetus forced upon them.
How many more interpretations are there?  Do they ever end?
Hello manhattangirl.  As weas said in previous posts, I believe Ennis did both: he tried to stick with convention early on, but ended up using convention as a way to keep Jack at bay.  Again, this is not surprising, since this happens so many times in real life and people are not so simplistic as to have only one reason for doing what they do.  People do things for various reasons -- some more openly, and others surreptitiously.  There is no contradiction in thinking that Ennis desired to stick to convention as well as well as use it as means to keep himself at some distance from Jack later in life.

To think of BBM as making an explicit moral statement is to misunderstand the movie completely, IMO.  One of the great powers of the story/movie is that it does not pass judgement on anyone -- not on Jack, Ennis, Alma, Lureen, Aguirre, Jack Twist, Randall, etc.  Depending on your point of view, BBM can speak many messages.  But I do think the BBM calls each of us to feel compassion for the common humanity that all of us share with each of the characters.

It may be a story of tortured love, but it is  love nonetheless.  And when does love ever come easy?  To love flippantly -- to love without pain or the risk of pain: that is NOT love by any other name.

I'm very sorry if what I posted upset you,  I don't mean to hurt anyone,  I only want to talk openly about this story we all care so much about. but I won't try and "blow smoke up the you know what " either, I would like be honest and talk openly.

IMO:  I wasn't trying to be moralistic when I ask is there two trains of thought in this film. we can take it  on face value and not ask any questions. OK, but, sometimes there is questions to be asked, scenes you wonder about.  The right and wrong of things.   if there is any unseen motives, missed opportunities.  That's why I love this site.    

Ennis and Jack love each other, and trusted each other, It wasn't a "summer thing"  it was much more than that.  It lasted for twenty years, my marriage didn't last that long.   but what motivated them to continue against all odds. and how did it effect them in long run?  

Remember the scene in restaurant and Ennis sitting alone eating the pie.   Watch it again, look at his body language see him slowly chewing, his head down.  He looks as if he fading away. This a pain scene to watch, because we all know what wrong, and what is missing in his life, but he couldn't get pass that fear he has.  (this goes to your thread Lamusica, unspoken moments).  

All I wanted to know is at what price love,  and the what happens to the lovers and the people around them.

Again I'm very sorry if I offended you.

Offline jerasjr

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 15195
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #33 on: Jan 30, 2007, 10:32 PM »
Don't think anyone was offended, manhattangirl - personal views are strongly held.  Personally feel that we cannot look at any point in BBM without considering the period and location - it is so often overlooked in our analysis.  To me BBM is a simple film, period - Ennis marrying was the logical step.   But BBM is also imbued with many things left unsaid or unexplored, and so we attempt to do it.
"A mountain with a wolf on it stands a little taller."

Offline LuvJackNasty

  • Mod-ChickY Brigade
  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 26177
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #34 on: Jan 30, 2007, 10:47 PM »
As Jer said, I don't think anyone was offended- we all have our own views or opinions to share- that's what this place is for.  :)  I like that we try to "fill in the blanks" and ask questions etc- it adds to the story for me.

In reference to your comment about why they continued for 20 years- my answer is they loved each other- plain and simple. They didn't do it solely for sex- to me you don't go through all that they went through to meet up etc for a coupla high altitude f's- it was love or as tpe said: It may be a story of tortured love, but it is  love nonetheless.
“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one ~ Imagine- J. Lennon

Offline welshwitch

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 6480
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #35 on: Jan 30, 2007, 11:14 PM »
And there is a sense in which why anyone marries anyone is an unanswerable question. sometime it's obvious to those involved but not to others; sometimes others think they can see why. sometimes not. And sometimes those involved, or one of them, starts asking why they are where they are and isn't sure of the answer.

Even now it's quite possible to slide into marriage because it's what's expected of you - among my acquaintances there is a girl who wanted children but seemed to have no prospects of marriage. However, a suitable candidate was found and they married, I think a lot because both mothers, who knew each other, wanted it. The group to which they all belong were approving and the social endorsement made everyone happy at the time. I don't think either member of the couple was in love.  Or is now. But they get along, most of the time, and they have a little girl, who seems to be a major link.

That's an aspect of Ennis and Alma in their early years, IMO. That he loved another man, even if he realized it before marrying Alma, was just beyond Ennis's ability to comprehend, much less deal with, while marrying her was what was expected and would be approved. In many ways love is disruptive, demanding and difficult; for Ennis loving Jack was just too much to cope with, other than "way the hell out in the middle of nowhere".

Offline lauren

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 212
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #36 on: Jan 31, 2007, 12:02 AM »
hmmm...why did ennis marry alma? i'm asking that question myself. its obvious after that trip to brokeback mountain that ennis loves jack as much as jack loves him? there is no reason enough for him to marry alma after that even if he already promised to marry her. maybe he is a man of integrity and does not want to break his promise to her but isn't a marriage without love, a worst then not getting married at all? i guess it is ennis's natural reaction to appear normal after all that 'action' up on the mountain but still it does not justify his action. he hurt alot of ppl by doing that...including jack... :\'(
did you miss me?
every second you're away,  you're all i think about, please don't leave me again....

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #37 on: Jan 31, 2007, 10:26 AM »
I'm very sorry if what I posted upset you,  I don't mean to hurt anyone,  I only want to talk openly about this story we all care so much about. but I won't try and "blow smoke up the you know what " either, I would like be honest and talk openly.

IMO:  I wasn't trying to be moralistic when I ask is there two trains of thought in this film. we can take it  on face value and not ask any questions. OK, but, sometimes there is questions to be asked, scenes you wonder about.  The right and wrong of things.   if there is any unseen motives, missed opportunities.  That's why I love this site.    

Ennis and Jack love each other, and trusted each other, It wasn't a "summer thing"  it was much more than that.  It lasted for twenty years, my marriage didn't last that long.   but what motivated them to continue against all odds. and how did it effect them in long run?  

Remember the scene in restaurant and Ennis sitting alone eating the pie.   Watch it again, look at his body language see him slowly chewing, his head down.  He looks as if he fading away. This a pain scene to watch, because we all know what wrong, and what is missing in his life, but he couldn't get pass that fear he has.  (this goes to your thread Lamusica, unspoken moments).  

All I wanted to know is at what price love,  and the what happens to the lovers and the people around them.

Again I'm very sorry if I offended you.

manhattangirl , why do you apologize when we should thank you are carrying this dialogue to a whole new level?  Don't think that people here take differences and opinions personally -- thay had better not.  ;)

Certainly I understood that you were not trying to be moralistic, and I just stated that to do so would be to miss out on BBM.  It is good that you bring up this point, as I am sure many people do try to draw a moral out of everything.

Yes, Ennis looked wasted in that scene with Cassie.  And we indeed know why.

I happened to be rereading yesterday night the final section of Brideshead Revisited, where Lord Marchmain lies dying.  There he is described as wasting away -- because he is struggling against his fear of death.

I think the same thing can be said about Ennis -- he is wasting away because he is struggling against his fear of true love.  He has been battling it all those 20 years, through his marriage and divorce with Alma and through his ever increasing sense of alienation and isolation.  In the end, he himself admitted that he cannot stand it anymore.  What is it that he cannot, stand.

I think it is this: a life of pretense.  It is a pretense to be like other people -- to be conventional, if you will.  Ennis didn't aim for anything high: he just wanted to be like everyone else.  That is the reason, I think, why he pushed through with his marriage with Alma.  And that is why he resisted living a good life with Jack.  Even though he knew where his love lay, he was afraid, because it lay in a place that went against the grain.  It is the struggle between the need to be like everybody else and his love for Jack that lies at the heart of Ennis's suffering.


Offline welshwitch

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 6480
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #38 on: Feb 01, 2007, 01:34 AM »
Love denied over so many years poisioned Ennis and destroyed even the affection for Alma that had led to their marriage.

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #39 on: Feb 01, 2007, 08:32 AM »
Love denied over so many years poisioned Ennis and destroyed even the affection for Alma that had led to their marriage.

Yes.  The denial of love poisons the soul.  No amount of pretense will keep unhappiness at bay, as in the case of Ennis's marriage with Alma.


manhattangirl

  • Guest
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #40 on: Feb 01, 2007, 06:14 PM »
Thank you Tpe,

I read Brideshead a few years ago, and what you said took my breathe away,  now I'm going to read Brokeback again, using my heart, this time.  Hope we all keep having conversations like this. 

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #41 on: Feb 01, 2007, 06:32 PM »
I look forward to more of your thoughts, manhattangirl.

In a sense, it was the next logical step, no?  To drive the wooden stake straight to the heart of his "forbidden" love.  Marriage to Alma was perhaps a form of emotional exorcism for Ennis.  But I guess Ennis didn't realize that the heart was his Heart.  The soul was his Soul.  The next logical step was pretty much a call to suicide -- and a slow wasting one at that.


Offline welshwitch

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 6480
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #42 on: Feb 02, 2007, 06:58 AM »
Ennis believes that marraige is "normal" - it's what he asks about Jack's marriage. And he wants to be "normal".

manhattangirl

  • Guest
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #43 on: Feb 02, 2007, 07:33 AM »
In a sense, it was the next logical step, no?  To drive the wooden stake straight to the heart of his "forbidden" love.  Marriage to Alma was perhaps a form of emotional exorcism for Ennis.  But I guess Ennis didn't realize that the heart was his Heart.  The soul was his Soul.  The next logical step was pretty much a call to suicide -- and a slow wasting one at that.

And the pain that slow suicide cause him was too exquisite,  he never stopped, he couldn't stop seeing Jack.  You can say that marriage to Alma was almost a retreat from something he couldn't bare.  Being with Jack, loving him, making love to him, his need for him was too overwhelming.     And in Ennis' mind there some unseen force in the world outside of them, that could and  would  destroy them.  

Marriage to  Alma, was a stop-gap from that "bad thing" from happening.  His intention in marrying Alma in the beginning was something he wanted to do, because he did think it was love and that's what you should do, marry, but after that summer with Jack, it was different.  In Jack, he found out the meaning of love, sex, and the need for both.   The conflict began.

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #44 on: Feb 02, 2007, 08:18 AM »
I do agree with you that before meeting Jack, Ennis thought he was in love with Alma.  He was sincere in this belief, I suspect.  He didn't know any better.  His brother married, so he assumed that he should do the same.  Jack complicated the comfortable illusion of marriage and love.

There is something very typical in how Ennis couldn't live without seeing Jack, and yet insisted that they live apart and lead conventional lives.  How many of us here have dealt with this situation in our own lives?  I suspect many of us did and many of us do.  It is all too human. 



Offline jacks_key

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 2466
  • Gender: Female
  • We'll always have Brokeback...
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #45 on: Feb 02, 2007, 09:22 AM »
In a sense, it was the next logical step, no?  To drive the wooden stake straight to the heart of his "forbidden" love.  Marriage to Alma was perhaps a form of emotional exorcism for Ennis.  But I guess Ennis didn't realize that the heart was his Heart.  The soul was his Soul.  The next logical step was pretty much a call to suicide -- and a slow wasting one at that.



I completely agree.  Ennis tried to go on with his life as if that summer had never happened, as if he could erase it by marrying Alma and settling into a nice "normal" life.  As if that would drive Jack out of his memory forever.  And, well, we all know how that worked out.
Heath Ledger: 1979-2008
Never enough time, never enough.

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #46 on: Feb 02, 2007, 09:32 AM »
I completely agree.  Ennis tried to go on with his life as if that summer had never happened, as if he could erase it by marrying Alma and settling into a nice "normal" life.  As if that would drive Jack out of his memory forever.  And, well, we all know how that worked out.

Yes. 

How could he have known that he would not be able to dispel his love for Jack with his marriage with Alma?  It was a one-shot thing, no?  Or so he thought.

This calls to mind an old thread dealing with what would have happened to Ennis had Jack not sent him the postcard after 4 years...


manhattangirl

  • Guest
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #47 on: Feb 02, 2007, 09:26 PM »
Ennis believes that marraige is "normal" - it's what he asks about Jack's marriage. And he wants to be "normal".

Alma sees them kissing,  "say good bye to normal".  Ennis marriage fell apart, and he didn't know why.  Alma knew, there was no way she could compete, how could she.  So she kept quiet,  and he went on his trips,  even then she wondered maybe it wasn't what she thought,  she left note on the end of the fishing line, that never saw water.

We have to be fair,  Alma, was caught up in something beyond her control, but unlike Ennis, she could fix it, she ended the marriage, painful, unwanted though it was she did it, and found her safe place with the supermarket guy.

Ennis was so caught up in his own pain, he couldn't see what it was doing to Alma, or even himself.   He stood there looking dazed and confused at the divorce hearing.   (tpe, was Ennis like Julia, harboring his little sin until it destroyed every thing around him?)     


Offline lamusica

  • Ennis
  • ******
  • Posts: 1874
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #48 on: Feb 02, 2007, 10:04 PM »
I think Alma fell out of love with Ennis.  By the time their marriage ended, she was ready to admit defeat and move on.  The expression on her face at the divorce hearing is priceless.  She is completely undone -- sad, mad, at her wits end.  I do believe she loved him early on in the relationship and probably would have loved him throughout their lives if it hadn't been for that kiss she witnessed.  The kiss and everything that happened afterward ( running off to meet Jack, never taking a vacation with her or the kids, never really being "present" in the marriage) killed that love slowly but surely.  I think she is to be pitied. The grocer saved her -- reinstated her feeling of worth.
"Let's put a SSSSMILE on your faceeee!"

manhattangirl

  • Guest
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #49 on: Feb 02, 2007, 10:34 PM »
I think Alma fell out of love with Ennis.  By the time their marriage ended, she was ready to admit defeat and move on.  The expression on her face at the divorce hearing is priceless.  She is completely undone -- sad, mad, at her wits end.  I do believe she loved him early on in the relationship and probably would have loved him throughout their lives if it hadn't been for that kiss she witnessed.  The kiss and everything that happened afterward ( running off to meet Jack, never taking a vacation with her or the kids, never really being "present" in the marriage) killed that love slowly but surely.  I think she is to be pitied. The grocer saved her -- reinstated her feeling of worth.

Yes, you feel unsure of yourself, especially as a woman, and this was pre-Oprah.  I couldn't help but think if he had relented and taken her to that Church Social, or got that better job at the electric plant,  she might have stay with him in spite of everything she saw, sad though it seemed,  you can't believe what kind of concessions one can make to hold on to what little they have.

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #50 on: Feb 05, 2007, 09:48 AM »
I think Alma fell out of love with Ennis.  By the time their marriage ended, she was ready to admit defeat and move on.  The expression on her face at the divorce hearing is priceless.  She is completely undone -- sad, mad, at her wits end.  I do believe she loved him early on in the relationship and probably would have loved him throughout their lives if it hadn't been for that kiss she witnessed.  The kiss and everything that happened afterward ( running off to meet Jack, never taking a vacation with her or the kids, never really being "present" in the marriage) killed that love slowly but surely.  I think she is to be pitied. The grocer saved her -- reinstated her feeling of worth.

I do believe that Alma was very bitter in the end, while Ennis was sad because of the loss of the family as he knew it.   Had Ennis known that it would come to an end this way, would he have married Alma in the first place?  I suspect not.  THis certainly was apparent with his dealings with Cassie.  Once burned...


Offline welshwitch

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 6480
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #51 on: Feb 05, 2007, 09:55 AM »
I think he also realized the second time around that marriage could be expensive - one of the reasons for his later poverty was the years of child-support payments, but you never think of things like that when you start out. Alma I think by the end was just tired of Ennis's constant negatives and constantly struggling against the poverty for which she (rightly, to some extent) blamed him.

I think they were both very young when they married and even without the irruption of Jack might not have survived as a couple.

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #52 on: Feb 05, 2007, 04:42 PM »
I think he also realized the second time around that marriage could be expensive - one of the reasons for his later poverty was the years of child-support payments, but you never think of things like that when you start out. Alma I think by the end was just tired of Ennis's constant negatives and constantly struggling against the poverty for which she (rightly, to some extent) blamed him.

I think they were both very young when they married and even without the irruption of Jack might not have survived as a couple.

That is an interesting opinion, because I see to recall old posts wherein some members said the same thi: they believed that Ennis's and Alma's marriage was doomed even without Jack entering the picture.

A person'e true nature and true unhappiness cannot be hidden for long.  I believ Ennis was fated to love Jack because of something in his nature that sought it out.


manhattangirl

  • Guest
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #53 on: Feb 06, 2007, 06:53 AM »
A person'e true nature and true unhappiness cannot be hidden for long.  I believ Ennis was fated to love Jack because of something in his nature that sought it out.

With him fighting that true nature, was ultimate war he raged with himself?

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #54 on: Feb 06, 2007, 09:41 AM »
With him fighting that true nature, was ultimate war he raged with himself?

Yes.  I do believe that BBM is essentially Ennis's story of interior struggle.  Yes, it was a war he could not win against himself.  This is why he went ahead with his marriage with Alma and resisted Jack's desire for a sweet life together.  My opinion.  :)


Offline lamusica

  • Ennis
  • ******
  • Posts: 1874
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #55 on: Feb 06, 2007, 03:41 PM »
Yes.  I do believe that BBM is essentially Ennis's story of interior struggle.  Yes, it was a war he could not win against himself.  This is why he went ahead with his marriage with Alma and resisted Jack's desire for a sweet life together.  My opinion.  :)



I agree, thomas, but the thing that shakes me up is that I don't think Ennis is aware of the battle within himself.  That makes me wonder how often we all have battles and don't realize it.  I don't think Ennis could have verbalized his feelings to anyone, including himself.  I find this to be one of the pluses of the movie.  Ennis's character is so finely tuned that we can all see ourselves in him.  By analyzing him so closely, as we do in these discussions, we are analyzing ourselves--- our motives, our impulses, our needs, our demons, etc.   Make sense?
"Let's put a SSSSMILE on your faceeee!"

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #56 on: Feb 06, 2007, 04:11 PM »
I agree, thomas, but the thing that shakes me up is that I don't think Ennis is aware of the battle within himself.  That makes me wonder how often we all have battles and don't realize it.  I don't think Ennis could have verbalized his feelings to anyone, including himself.  I find this to be one of the pluses of the movie.  Ennis's character is so finely tuned that we can all see ourselves in him.  By analyzing him so closely, as we do in these discussions, we are analyzing ourselves--- our motives, our impulses, our needs, our demons, etc.   Make sense?

It makes sense, although I would venture to say that even if Ennis may not have been fully conscious about the struggle, he nonetheless reacted almost instinctively to keep his balance: in this case, pushing away Jack and marrying Alma.  His not fully understanding this struggle within himself is the source of all his angst and unhappiness.

Ennis does mirror us in this regard.  We all have our own inner conflicts.  Although we learn to live with them, we never fully resolve or understand most of them.  If you can't fix it, you've got to stand it.  That is so Ennis: stand it; don't try to understand it.

 

Offline welshwitch

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 6480
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #57 on: Feb 07, 2007, 07:53 AM »
Which is another way in which Ennis reflects the stereotypical Western man - strong, silent, stoic, never introspective, communicative or analytical. So perhaps he'd have been happier as a loner if he hadn't met alma and lived in a conventional society?

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #58 on: Feb 07, 2007, 08:59 AM »
Which is another way in which Ennis reflects the stereotypical Western man - strong, silent, stoic, never introspective, communicative or analytical. So perhaps he'd have been happier as a loner if he hadn't met alma and lived in a conventional society?

There is more to a grain of truth in Jr.'s comment to Cassie about her father: he's not the marrying kind.

I wonder too if he would have been happier alone, by himself, from the beginning.  He certainly ended up that way...


Offline lauren

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 212
  • Gender: Female
Re: Why did Ennis marry Alma? Was It Love or the next Logical Step.
« Reply #59 on: Feb 13, 2007, 10:31 PM »
There is more to a grain of truth in Jr.'s comment to Cassie about her father: he's not the marrying kind.

I wonder too if he would have been happier alone, by himself, from the beginning.  He certainly ended up that way...



he may have ended up alone but at least he felt what its like to love someone and be loved in return. in the end, thats what matter most...if he he had been alone from the beginning, the storyline would've been different. would he have met jack then? since ennis may have went on that trip as a last trip for him to be alone with nature, to say goodbye to being alone for the rest of his life. i believe that everything happens for a reason...if ennis had been alone from the beginning, it would have been worse for him. at least now without jack, he still have alma jr and jenny and not completely alone.
did you miss me?
every second you're away,  you're all i think about, please don't leave me again....