Topic: If Ennis knew Randall was moving in on Jack, how would he react?

[tpe]

I assume he would get violent with Randall and perhaps Jack too, but I'm sure Jack, or Randall, could hold his own.  Would Ennis be able to stand it?  Would he have fought for Jack or would he break down and dump Jack completely?  We saw him breaking down already when Jack attacked him with that speech.  Would seeing Jack with Randall open up his eyes enough for him to see Jack's dream with himself in it?  Although it's a long shot, it's possible, I think.

That is the question really.  What constitutes "enough is enough" as far as Ennis is concerned?  And what would he do when he reaches that breaking point?  Could he give up Jack forever?  Will he be able to stand it?  Jack would not be able to by himself, IMO.  But Ennis is a stubborn man.  He would rather suffer unspeakable inner torment rather than face up to his fears.  In this instance, we ask again: when is enough enough?



 

[tpe]

So I think all these questions going round in Ennis's head, added to the fact that he hadn't had a postcard from Jack about November, aroused an anxiety in Ennis which made him send the postcard to Jack, to remind him that he was still there, that he was looking forward to seeing him, and that if Jack was making plans that didn't involve him, to hold on until November. I think that had they met in November, Ennis would've demanded answers from Jack about Randall, and more than likely lashed out with his fists when Jack confirmed Ennis's suspicions, but Jack would've hit back, physically and verbally, giving Ennis the choice of either losing Jack for good, or finally forgetting about having to stand it, and fixing it once and for all, always and forever. I have to believe that he would've chosen the latter, if only he'd had the chance... :\'(

A very insightful post, CrimsonSky.  Perhaps if jack lived and had he met Ennis in November, things may have come to a head. So many things unresolved and left unsaid  -- that's the tragedy of Jack dying...

[JT]

That is the question really.  What constitutes "enough is enough" as far as Ennis is concerned?  And what would he do when he reaches that breaking point?  Could he give up Jack forever?  Will he be able to stand it?  Jack would not be able to by himself, IMO.  But Ennis is a stubborn man.  He would rather suffer unspeakable inner torment rather than face up to his fears.  In this instance, we ask again: when is enough enough?



 

My answer was- Yes, it's possible.  He did change for his daughter.  Although a little, he did budge.  No reasons why he couldn't change for Jack.

[welshwitch]

But in changing for Alma Jr he was doing something socially acceptable and arguably which might help him be seen as more of a normal member of society instead of an isolated loner. In committing to Jack he would be doing what he'd fought for so long - admitting he was queer - and getting himself into a situation he'd always seen as dangerous, possibly deadly - would he be desperate enough if there was the threat of losing Jack to get over his own fears?

If his love for Jack is so strong that he can;t do witout hom, why has he gone on as he has for so long, specially after the divorce and that meeting when it couldn't have been clearer what Jack wanted ? He was afraid then - look t his reaction to the pickup driving past - so what would have changed later? After that meeting Jack drove off evidently in great emotional turmoil while Ennis just stood there and did nothing to stop him.

[JT]

But in changing for Alma Jr he was doing something socially acceptable and arguably which might help him be seen as more of a normal member of society instead of an isolated loner. In committing to Jack he would be doing what he'd fought for so long - admitting he was queer - and getting himself into a situation he'd always seen as dangerous, possibly deadly - would he be desperate enough if there was the threat of losing Jack to get over his own fears?

If his love for Jack is so strong that he can;t do witout hom, why has he gone on as he has for so long, specially after the divorce and that meeting when it couldn't have been clearer what Jack wanted ? He was afraid then - look t his reaction to the pickup driving past - so what would have changed later? After that meeting Jack drove off evidently in great emotional turmoil while Ennis just stood there and did nothing to stop him.

Very good point, but that was when he knew Jack will always come back to him.  Perhaps he took Jack for granted, but if he knew Jack will be taken away from him permanently, either by death or by Randall, then maybe, just maybe, he'll think differently.  Or perhaps his love for Jack was never that strong which makes this movie less than what we think it is.  If that's the case, then the shirts should not have meant anything to him at all.

As for case of changing for Alma Jr., I see him as a queer by make and a loner be design.  He's been taught to hate the former and as a result, became the latter.  Being alone and denying an aspect of himself are interconnected and they both are a problem for him, not just fighting his own queerness.  What I'm trying to say is that he had two main problems here--social problem and queerness.  The way I see it is, when he took that first step for Alma Jr, in a way, he was taking a first step for Jack also.  Sure, the situation was different, the change itself didn't have to be. 

[tpe]

My answer was- Yes, it's possible.  He did change for his daughter.  Although a little, he did budge.  No reasons why he couldn't change for Jack.

An infinitesial change for Ennis is like moving the world without a pivot.

[tpe]

If his love for Jack is so strong that he can;t do witout hom, why has he gone on as he has for so long, specially after the divorce and that meeting when it couldn't have been clearer what Jack wanted ? He was afraid then - look t his reaction to the pickup driving past - so what would have changed later? After that meeting Jack drove off evidently in great emotional turmoil while Ennis just stood there and did nothing to stop him.

I think he did realize in the last meeting that he had reached a breaking point.  Perhaps that is a signal for change within Ennis...

[manhattangirl]

For me the battle was always his sexuality, and his fear of it.   As far as someone finding out, yeah sure that's always in the background, but it's always been coming out to himself was his problem.  And for me his torment is more understandable, and more poignant.   

To be a man and to love another man, and being shown as child what could happen to "boys like you".  We saw how crippling that could be, and the damage it did.  Ennis was damaged before he met Jack.  Jack showed him love he never knew, acceptance he never had.  And to me that is the rub, he found love, physical and emotional love from a man.  The war in his head, and the war of his body responding to Jack.  Ennis wanted it, but in the same breathe could turn it all away. 

Being so emotionally screwed he couldn't go beyond his own fear of himself.  Jack expressed his frustration with Ennis, and the hint of someone else.  That's why I think Ennis wrote Jack to confirm the November date, He had have known something change in Jack, Ennis for the first time was desperate,  His lover might be with someone else. 

Do you think harbouring his fear of himself is more powerful than Jack's love?  Ennis would have to do something, he was on the definitely at that breaking point. 

     

[JT]

I strongly agree that writing that postcard to Jack about the November meeting was a big step for the emotionally screwed Ennis.  Something did stir within him.  When he lost Jack for good, he did take a big step to honor Jack's last wish.  Would he take the same big step if he know he's about to loose Jack to another man?

[lauren]

I strongly agree that writing that postcard to Jack about the November meeting was a big step for the emotionally screwed Ennis.  Something did stir within him.  When he lost Jack for good, he did take a big step to honor Jack's last wish.  Would he take the same big step if he know he's about to loose Jack to another man?

losing jack to another man is a big step. perhaps it will jolt ennis out of his dream where everything is perfect as long as he continued to stay in the closet but then he pretty much have an idea when jack mentioned mexico so maybe he wouldn't give up his oppotunity to live a normal life even for jack? it breaks my heart to see him suffer alone. if only he could let jack share his burden, things could have been different....

[aintfoolin]

The question still remains: What constitutes "enough " for Ennis?  What would it take to shake Ennis's stubborn resolve to keep standing it?  During Ennis's marriage and his early years with Jack no one really challenged Ennis. No one  ever  really said no to him, called him on anything . Ennis never had a direct threat against  himself. He ran the show in the relationship, he ran the show in his marriage, dictated the times and pace of the meetings, He was running things....until that last confrontation with Jack
 First, Crimson Sky was right with the idea that Ennis knew  Jack was cheating with the * ranch foreman*, not his wife. Second , he finds out that Jack has been to Mexico and what that entails. Then Jack not only admits it but then proceeds to verbally challenge Ennis and dared him to blame him. ( is that a problem?) . Ennis then threatens to kill Jack if he comes to know "all them things" I don't think he realized the serious potential threat that Randall was at this time, and Jack was not about to test Ennis's resolve further by confessing to another affair , let alone a seriuos threat to Ennis himself, athough , had he  known  that he was being "forced out" of Jack's life for good , THAT very well may have been enough for Ennis to wake up and smell the coffee.  He knew what this meant and that  Jack was serious about verbally pointing out at last, his  own responsibility in creating this crisis. Perhaps maybe had Jack "released" Ennis and let time itself work on him, concerning the emptiness and the loss,  and the idea that  his Jack was moving on with his sweet  life with someone else ? No , I don't think Ennis was done with Jack F-ckin Twist  yet.  ( check out Ennis's face again in the reunion scene! ) Jack was everything to him  and had Jack lived THIS would have been his biggest challenge. I think he'd be up for it, After much counting of the cost, ( this is Ennis's analyzing ways) and knowing how much he'd be loosing to Randall. He'd fight himself and anybody else to keep him,  imo.

[tpe]

For me the battle was always his sexuality, and his fear of it.   As far as someone finding out, yeah sure that's always in the background, but it's always been coming out to himself was his problem.  And for me his torment is more understandable, and more poignant.   

Precisely.  I had always thought that this was the real battle within Ennis.  Proulx had pretty much stated it in her BBM interview.

Do you think harbouring his fear of himself is more powerful than Jack's love?  Ennis would have to do something, he was on the definitely at that breaking point.  

They were well-matched: his fear and their love.  One is not easily overpowered by the other....

[tpe]

I strongly agree that writing that postcard to Jack about the November meeting was a big step for the emotionally screwed Ennis.  Something did stir within him.  When he lost Jack for good, he did take a big step to honor Jack's last wish.  Would he take the same big step if he know he's about to loose Jack to another man?

Ennis certainly did change over the years.  Let us recall that during the 4 years before BBM and the reunion, Ennis didn't even consider looking for Jack and establishing communication.  True, it could have meant nothing but a continuation of the status quo, but the short story did use the word "almost" when saying that things got "almost" torqued back to the status quo.  It is indeed hard to imagine that the discussion from their last meeting would not find a continuatuation in November, had that meeting happened...

[tpe]

losing jack to another man is a big step. perhaps it will jolt ennis out of his dream where everything is perfect as long as he continued to stay in the closet but then he pretty much have an idea when jack mentioned mexico so maybe he wouldn't give up his oppotunity to live a normal life even for jack? it breaks my heart to see him suffer alone. if only he could let jack share his burden, things could have been different....

Yes, I think Jack always had the intention of sharing the risks and the burdens.  That was why he was capable of contemplating the move with Randall, and that is why he could have died by the tire iron.

[tpe]

The question still remains: What constitutes "enough " for Ennis?  What would it take to shake Ennis's stubborn resolve to keep standing it?  During Ennis's marriage and his early years with Jack no one really challenged Ennis. No one  ever  really said no to him, called him on anything . Ennis never had a direct threat against  himself. He ran the show in the relationship, he ran the show in his marriage, dictated the times and pace of the meetings, He was running things....until that last confrontation with Jack
 First, Crimson Sky was right with the idea that Ennis knew  Jack was cheating with the * ranch foreman*, not his wife. Second , he finds out that Jack has been to Mexico and what that entails. Then Jack not only admits it but then proceeds to verbally challenge Ennis and dared him to blame him. ( is that a problem?) . Ennis then threatens to kill Jack if he comes to know "all them things" I don't think he realized the serious potential threat that Randall was at this time, and Jack was not about to test Ennis's resolve further by confessing to another affair , let alone a seriuos threat to Ennis himself, athough , had he  known  that he was being "forced out" of Jack's life for good , THAT very well may have been enough for Ennis to wake up and smell the coffee.  He knew what this meant and that  Jack was serious about verbally pointing out at last, his  own responsibility in creating this crisis. Perhaps maybe had Jack "released" Ennis and let time itself work on him, concerning the emptiness and the loss,  and the idea that  his Jack was moving on with his sweet  life with someone else ? No , I don't think Ennis was done with Jack F-ckin Twist  yet.  ( check out Ennis's face again in the reunion scene! ) Jack was everything to him  and had Jack lived THIS would have been his biggest challenge. I think he'd be up for it, After much counting of the cost, ( this is Ennis's analyzing ways) and knowing how much he'd be loosing to Randall. He'd fight himself and anybody else to keep him,  imo.

aintfoolin, in my opinion, "enough" had everything to do with Ennis himself, and not necessarily with Jack moving one with Randall.  If Ennis was telling the truth when he said that he couldn'e stand it anymore, than that would mean that he was reaching the point where enough was enough.  True, knowledge of Jack moving on would Ennis would have supplied the required perturbation that would push Ennis over the edge, but to be ON EDGE, Ennis had to have realized within himself that whatever he could not fix could not be countenanced indefinitely.  I think this self-realization is the crux by which change would inevitably occur.

[aintfoolin]

Yes Tpe, I will back up and say that there is a major step Ennis must take himself. He was "almost" there when he broke down in Jack's arms,. He could no longer stand it anymore. The denial and all that it entails.  I understand that he had to admit to himself as was said before by myself and others is that Ennis and Jack must be the same. he loved Jack. Another man , A man same as him and that in order to fight for Jack he would have to really understand and know exactly what he was fighting for and why. Had Jack confessed Randall to him, yes he'd be devastated, livid, hurt,  and ready to hurt somebody even, but after the dust clears , Ennis  still would be forced to take a good hard look at himself and what if anything he was going to do about Jack slipping quickly from his grasp and starting a new life that does'nt include him. he'd  have to make a choice one way or the other. Will I lay down and give in finally to my fears? and loose Jack forever? Or look deep inside himself and find whatever it takes if anyway possible to  shake off all those old fears and conflicts about who and what he really is and fight for Jack and their  sweet love....Jack was'nt going to wait forever for him as much as he loved him. confessing  Randall  and what that meant, would prove that to him. I think they'd both had enough of the status quo. My thoughts.

[lauren]

Yes, I think Jack always had the intention of sharing the risks and the burdens.  That was why he was capable of contemplating the move with Randall, and that is why he could have died by the tire iron.

sometimes, i thought its better for jack if he just gave up on ennis. jack deserved someone better, someone who can love him despite all the weird looks and opposition from other people. i like jack and i hate to see him cry....maybe being with randall is for the best. ennis won't even have to keep on denying who he is then maybe he would be alot happier...and the show would have a happier ending

[tpe]

Yes Tpe, I will back up and say that there is a major step Ennis must take himself. He was "almost" there when he broke down in Jack's arms,. He could no longer stand it anymore. The denial and all that it entails.  I understand that he had to admit to himself as was said before by myself and others is that Ennis and Jack must be the same. he loved Jack. Another man , A man same as him and that in order to fight for Jack he would have to really understand and know exactly what he was fighting for and why. Had Jack confessed Randall to him, yes he'd be devastated, livid, hurt,  and ready to hurt somebody even, but after the dust clears , Ennis  still would be forced to take a good hard look at himself and what if anything he was going to do about Jack slipping quickly from his grasp and starting a new life that does'nt include him. he'd  have to make a choice one way or the other. Will I lay down and give in finally to my fears? and loose Jack forever? Or look deep inside himself and find whatever it takes if anyway possible to  shake off all those old fears and conflicts about who and what he really is and fight for Jack and their  sweet love....Jack was'nt going to wait forever for him as much as he loved him. confessing  Randall  and what that meant, would prove that to him. I think they'd both had enough of the status quo. My thoughts.

Was Ennis perhaps so sure of his power over Jack that he thought Jack would wait forever?    Or perhaps he himself thought that he would inevitably reconcile his fears and one day come to an understanding with Jack?

Thinking about this, I think it is neither.  I suspect that Ennis was afraid of change, even though he knew that things were not bound to sit unchanged or unchallenged forever.  It takes someone like Randall to unbalance Ennis.  It is in those moments when you feel that we see him acknowledge his own weakness and indecisiveness in the face of Jack's dream.

[tpe]

sometimes, i thought its better for jack if he just gave up on ennis. jack deserved someone better, someone who can love him despite all the weird looks and opposition from other people. i like jack and i hate to see him cry....maybe being with randall is for the best. ennis won't even have to keep on denying who he is then maybe he would be alot happier...and the show would have a happier ending

Love is such an irrational thing, no?  It harkens back to the old thread about what made jack love Ennis.

I do think that Jack contemplated the move with Randall not to just "strike back" at Ennis.  I agree that perhaps he was seeking "the best of all possible worlds".  Randall was a compromise, no?  Perhaps Jack hoped that if he could live the dream with Randall and get Ennis to accept this as a necessary compromise, then the love they shared would somehow yet endure.

[welshwitch]

I don;t see ennis as feeling he has a hold over Jack - it's more, I think, that things have always been as they've been and he can see no way to change them, doesn't even want to in some ways. but in that last scene with Jack he's acknowledging his own mortality - he knows he can't go on walking out of jobs as they're become harder to find, and he has financial resposnsibilites to fulfill - in a sense he's just seeing that he's grown-up and can't go on acting like an irrespossible teenager. There's a part of both of them which reverts constantly to being nineteen and acting as they did then - Jack is lucky enough to have enough money ( and a fairly uninterested wife) to go on doing that but Ennis isn't.

[tpe]

I don;t see ennis as feeling he has a hold over Jack - it's more, I think, that things have always been as they've been and he can see no way to change them, doesn;t even want to in some ways. but in that last scene with Jack he's acknowledging his own mortality - he knows he can;t go on walking out of jobs as they're become harder to find, and he has financial resposnsibilites to fulfill - in a sense he's just seeing that he's grown-up and can;t go on acting like an irrespossible teenager. There's a part of both pof them which reverts constantly to being nineteen and acting as they did then - Jack is lucky enough to have enough money ( and a fairly unintersted wife) to go on doing that but Ennis isn't.

But I wonder: did he really think that Jack would wait indefinitely?  He certainly must have been aware of what Jack had wanted all these years.  It would seem that he assumed that Jack would also "stand it".  But knowing that he himself was already finding it difficult, could he really think Jack could continue to do so?

[welshwitch]

If he does, it assumes on Ennis's part a very limited notion of Jack's nature. After that first summer, and certainly after the reunion, he must have seen Jack's openness, emotionalism, his almost reckless attitude - I can see that the latter might have made him even more defensive and self-denying. But he must also have seen Jack as desirable - Jack had married "the prettiest little gal in Childress"  - since Ennis later pursues Cassie ( or she him) I wonder if he ever thought of Jack looking at other women ( or being pursued by them)?

Does it ever enter his head, until the mention of Mexico, that Jack has actually had other lovers? He evidently knows what there is "for boys like you" in Mexico, so has he been brooding about this? If so, the thought of other men finding Jack attractive or he them may also have entered his head. Perhaps deep down Randall is just what Ennis feared.

[tpe]

If he does, it assumes on Ennis's part a very limited notion of Jack's nature. After that first summer, and certainly after the reunion, he must have seen Jack's openness, emotionalism, his almost reckless attitude - I can see that the latter might have made him even more defensive and self-denying. But he must also have seen Jack as desirable - Jack had married "the prettiest little gal in Childress"  - since Ennis later pursues Cassie ( or she him) I wonder if he ever thought of Jack looking at other women ( or being pursued by them)?

Does it ever enter his head, until the mention of Mexico, that Jack has actually had other lovers? He evidently knows what there is "for boys like you" in Mexico, so has he been brooding about this? If so, the thought of other men finding Jack attractive or he them may also have entered his head. Perhaps deep down Randall is just what Ennis feared.

I think Ennis didn't really care to know outright, although I am sure the thought must have crossed his mind.  That's why having to acknowledge Randall would have been a shock to him -- I do think he would have had to face Randall as a rival, had Jack lived.

[manhattangirl]

This question I have to ask,  we spoke of Jack's nature sexual and other wise,  but what of Ennis,  He indeed was married and that failed, and the question of having sex with Cassie was never brought up,or do we assume it,  ( I didn't noticed, unless I've missed something), and if he lived a life sexless, absence of any companionship other than Jack,  this alone would tell you  how mentally and physically he was tied to Jack.   Jack was it for him, this was all he had.  if he even thought of losing this how desperate do you think his action would be?  He didn't have the options Jack did,  If he lost Jack, he would lose the little he had, and even himself.   

[tpe]

This question I have to ask,  we spoke of Jack's nature sexual and other wise,  but what of Ennis,  He indeed was married and that failed, and the question of having sex with Cassie was never brought up,or do we assume it,  ( I didn't noticed, unless I've missed something), and if he lived a life sexless, absence of any companionship other than Jack,  this alone would tell you  how mentally and physically he was tied to Jack.   Jack was it for him, this was all he had.  if he even thought of losing this how desperate do you think his action would be?  He didn't have the options Jack did,  If he lost Jack, he would lose the little he had, and even himself.   

In an old thread, the relationship between Ennis and Cassie was discussed, and I think I stated there my belief that Ennis and Cassie did have sexual relations.  The strongest indication is the wine that Ennis drank with Alma Jr.  -- the screenplay indicates that this bottle was leftover from the days with Cassie.  I would assume then that Cassie did stay in Ennis's trailer -- most likely, she stayed the night.

So I personally think that Jack was intimate with Randall while Ennis remained monogamous.  The marked difference, I think, is that Jack probably had sex exclusively with men at that point in time, whereas Ennis probably stuck to women/a woman (not counting Jack).  This may account for Ennis's comment about "boys" like you.  In his way of thinking, he did not fall into that category because he only did it with Jack as far as men are concerned.

 

[lauren]

IMHO: 

This is when the possessiveness is kicked right to the surface.   Being "queer" and not being a "queer" is not important at this moment.  Jack is giving away what belonged to Ennis.  Jack belonged to him. Jack was his.  He would kill him if ever found out about all the things he didn't know about.   Ennis was not conflicted at this moment, and he ain't foolin. 

Jack indeed knew when to draw back from Ennis, he knew of his violence. Ennis function on pure emotion and not much thought.  Jack took a big chance on telling him about Mexico.   But he had no choice, Ennis wasn't giving in on much.   

To tell him of Randall would result I think, two ways, Ennis would have beaten him to death, or got on his knees and begged him not to go back to Randall.   Would Ennis go off with Jack, heck no, he wouldn't, but there was no way he would give Jack up.  (Crazy isn't it?).

Ennis wasn't  a "Dr. Phil" let explore our feelings kind of guy.   We seen so many time in this story how he internalized things until it was to much for him to bare.   

i totally agree. ennis would never have given in to jack's demands to be become like a normal couple. i think he would kill himself first before admitting that he's gay.....or that he loves jack. even if he found out about randall before jack's death, there is a big possibility that he would just walk away from their relationship...seeing that he wants jack to 'let him be'. it breaks my heart to see ennis in pain but sometimes, a person have to hurt first in order to cherish the better things in life that are to come next. randall is jack's way of being in touch with who he really is inside. it could have been avoided if only ennis would stop feeling so ashamed of their relationship....ennis drove jack to mexico and into the arms of randall. jack waited 20 years for ennis, i think that's about long enough for someone to keep waiting without an answer. i would have lost patience long before that. if ennis couldn't give jack what he wants then maybe randall can and maybe ennis should just 'let him be' for once....

[tpe]

i totally agree. ennis would never have given in to jack's demands to be become like a normal couple. i think he would kill himself first before admitting that he's gay.....or that he loves jack. even if he found out about randall before jack's death, there is a big possibility that he would just walk away from their relationship...seeing that he wants jack to 'let him be'. it breaks my heart to see ennis in pain but sometimes, a person have to hurt first in order to cherish the better things in life that are to come next. randall is jack's way of being in touch with who he really is inside. it could have been avoided if only ennis would stop feeling so ashamed of their relationship....ennis drove jack to mexico and into the arms of randall. jack waited 20 years for ennis, i think that's about long enough for someone to keep waiting without an answer. i would have lost patience long before that. if ennis couldn't give jack what he wants then maybe randall can and maybe ennis should just 'let him be' for once....

Wonderful, provocative, and insightful post, lauren.  You really raise many points here relating to Ennis's possible reaction to Jack and Randall. 

Given that you think that Ennis would never give in to Jack's dream, one would think that he would be stoic once he finds out about Randall.  And indeed, perhaps Ennis would recognize the impossibility of holding on to Jack and keeping him at bay at the same time.

Ennis is a proud person, and finding out about Randall would surely be a blow to his own self-worth.  In spite of his threat to Jack, it is quite plausible that he would just let go and sink deeper into his own sense of isolation.

It is sad to contemplate.  And it is true what you said: that it has to hurt sometimes in order to cherish. 

Ennis's tragic flaw is at the very heart of this story.  It informs us with a cold, certain logic of why some things are meant to be.

[manhattangirl]

Please understand me, I don't think there was anyway Ennis could just walk away from Jack, in the deepest part of their relationship, it wasn't about being gay or straight or what it meant.  No matter what Ennis said or did, proclaimed, bore witness to, etc.  Ennis couldn't just walk away.  To walk away from Jack, would be an ending to his own life.  His life was Jack, unknowingly, knowingly how ever you want to look at it. 

Ennis was not philosophical guy,  he existed on his need and love for Jack, no matter how badly he treated him.  If  Jack would have just turned away from him, there is no way Ennis could have handled it.

He wrote to Jack confirming November.  He did something out of the ordinary, he wrote to Jack to make sure he was coming, how long was it that he might not have heard from him?   (forget Jack was dead, let say he hadn't died),   How crazy do you think this might have made him?  What would he have done?   

IMHO:

He would have done something,  he couldn't just let it go, I don't think he would have ever let Jack go, if he couldn't have him I don't think anyone could.   

I know that may be an ugly way to look at it, Ennis was not a saint,  Ennis could be brought to violence,  when it came to Jack he could fall to his knees, or raise his hand.   But to just turn and walk away, when it came to Jack I don't think Ennis could or would, he would have done  it 20 years before. 

[tpe]

IMHO:

He would have done something,  he couldn't just let it go, I don't think he would have ever let Jack go, if he couldn't have him I don't think anyone could.   

I know that may be an ugly way to look at it, Ennis was not a saint,  Ennis could be brought to violence,  when it came to Jack he could fall to his knees, or raise his hand.   But to just turn and walk away, when it came to Jack I don't think Ennis could or would, he would have done  it 20 years before. 

I would also like to think that it would be this way, manhattangirl, but I have to admit that lauren's point of view is also plausible, if we are to admit a certain stubbornness, pride, and a deep sense of hurst and hard stoicism in Ennis's character.

Ennis of course reached out for a November meeting, but I wonder if he would have reacted similarly had he known about Randall.  I do think it was possible that he would have retreated back into himself, and would have refused to reach out.  It would have been devastating for him, I'm sure, and in such circumstances, he could go either way.

[lauren]

I would also like to think that it would be this way, manhattangirl, but I have to admit that lauren's point of view is also plausible, if we are to admit a certain stubbornness, pride, and a deep sense of hurst and hard stoicism in Ennis's character.

Ennis of course reached out for a November meeting, but I wonder if he would have reacted similarly had he known about Randall.  I do think it was possible that he would have retreated back into himself, and would have refused to reach out.  It would have been devastating for him, I'm sure, and in such circumstances, he could go either way.

i totally, absolutely agree....knowing about jack's death through a postcard is like taking a punch in the stomach for ennis, jolting him out of his dream that only straight couples are normal. maybe if the movie were to go on, it might show that ennis is more accepting of his relationship with jack. losing jack forever may just make him realize how important jack is to him. sometimes i can't help but wonder, if ennis had a similar devastating impact like jack's death when he was still alive, it might make him want a relationship with jack more. knowing about randall might have a similar impact to jack's death since it has potential to make him lose jack forever too. maybe then, he would appreciate him more...and maybe if jack really was destined to die, at least he could have a few more days to know that ennis really loved him and was willing to sacrifice for their love. i mean, how often do you meet a guy whom you want to have a 20-year affair with? but still, like tpe said, anything is possible...he could go either way