Topic: Timeline of Last Scenes - Spoilers!

[tpe]

Liam56 and I have had an intersting discussion based on the dates given in the screenplay for the final scenes in the movie.  I must admit that both of us were SURPRISED to realize that both of us had failed to grasp the significance of the timeline for these final scenes.

Both of us have agreed to present our findings here.  We ask you if you agree with our conclusions, or if you can create other alternative scenarios.


According to the screenplay, we have the established dates for the final scenes:

I.  The final meeting of Ennis and Jack occurred in 1981.

II.  The phone calll between Ennis and Lureen, and Ennis' visit to Jack's parents occurred in 1982.

III.  The visit of Alma Jr. to Ennis' trailer to announce her wedding occurred in 1984.


From the above, we can make the following logical deductions.

A.  THE LAST MEETING OF ENNIS AND JACK MUST HAVE OCCURRED DURING THE FALL OF 1981.  Snow was mentioned in this last meeting, so the time could have beeen either SPRING or FALL.  But Ennis was saying that they would meet next November, which could not have been November of 1981 (see below), so the last meeting was in FALL OF 1981.

B.  During the last meeting in 1981, Jack said that he was visiting his parents (PRESUMABLY IN FALL OF 1981).  But from Ennis' visit to Jack's parents, we know that Jack ALSO VISITED his parents in SPRING OF 1982 (as mentioned by Jack's father).  This, together with the obvious fall setting of Ennis' visit to Jack's parents, establishes Ennis' visit to FALL of 1982.  THEREFORE, JACK MUST HAVE DIED BETWEEN SPRING AND FALL OF 1982.

C.  Alma Jr.'s wedding was in 1984.  Since the wedding was on June 5 of that year, the visit to Ennis' trailer MUST HAVE BEEN SPRING OF 1984.

Liam56 and I were shocked to reach the following conclusions:


1.  In the last meeting, Ennis was actually proposing to Jack that IT WOULD BE CLOSE TO ONE YEAR BEFORE THEY COULD MEET AGAIN!!!!!  No wonder Jack was so angry with Ennis!!!!!!!!!  I had originally thought that the last meeting occured during spring and they would meet the following November OF THE SAME YEAR.  The screenplay obviously SHOOTS THIS DOWN. 

2.  Between FALL of 1981 and SPRING of 1982, Jack must have decided to divorce Lureen and he probably got sufficiently  involved with the Texas ranch neighbor to suggest the possibility of the Texas rancher moving to Wyoming with him.   JACK MUST HAVE DIED EARLY SUMMER OF 1982.

3.  Alma Jr.'s visit to Ennis' trailer occurred more than one year after Ennis' visit to Jack's parents.  I had originally thought that the time between the two scenes was much shorter.  It is MOVING to realize that close to 2 years after Jack's death, Ennis WAS STILL VERY MUCH IN MOURNING FOR JACK.  Presumably, Ennis would be in mourning for the rest of his life!


These are our conclusions.  Feel free to comment, agree, or disagree.  But given the dates in the screenplay, can you figure out some other scenario -- i.e., other than what we have just proposed?

[tpe]

By the way, a fallout to our above conclusions is the following:  Jack died in 1982 at the age of 39.  This means that he was 20 years old (NOT 19) when he and Ennis met in the summer of 1963.  Ennis was also probably 20 years old at the time of the first meeting.

[karind1]

be sure to watch the charlie rose show interview with ang (and heath) but ang will answer some of your questions.  it is posted i believe in the news forum from ethan the link to the show
or actually here is link   Heath Ledger And Ang Lee Brokeback Mountain interview with Charlie Rose Video - 12/7/05

http://www.heathledgercentral.com/bbcharlieroseinterview.html

[*Froggy*]

According to the screenplay, we have the established dates for the final scenes:
I.  The final meeting of Ennis and Jack occurred in 1981.
II.  The phone calll between Ennis and Lureen, and Ennis' visit to Jack's parents occurred in 1982.
III.  The visit of Alma Jr. to Ennis' trailer to announce her wedding occurred in 1884.

Where did you find this exactly? Are the dates really in the screenplay?

A.  THE LAST MEETING OF ENNIS AND JACK MUST HAVE OCCURRED DURING THE FALL OF 1981.

I always assumed that it had been spring! :-\ And so If they were meant to meet again in August (as planned) it would have been only a few months away, and then Ennis said not till November...But why 1981..? Jack and Ennis met in 1963 and were together 20 years (including the 4 years appart) no?

C.  Alma Jr.'s wedding was in 1984.  Since the wedding was on June 5 of that year, the visit to Ennis' trailer MUST HAVE BEEN SPRING OF 1984.

And this for me was going to be the spring following Jack's death.
Ennis had married Alma in September 1963...Alma Jr was born a +/- 9 months later (Spring or June 1964) The story states that Alma Jr was 19 when she was going to get married (1983)...Jack and Ennis had been 20 years together..made more sense to me.

1.  In the last meeting, Ennis was actually proposing to Jack that IT WOULD BE CLOSE TO ONE YEAR BEFORE THEY COULD MEET AGAIN!!!!!  No wonder Jack was so angry with Ennis!!!!!!!!!  I had originally thought that the last meeting occured during spring and they would meet the following November OF THE SAME YEAR.  The screenplay obviously SHOOTS THIS DOWN. 

Really? Why?

2.  Between FALL of 1981 and SPRING of 1982, Jack must have decided to divorce Lureen and he probably got sufficiently  involved with the Texas ranch neighbor to suggest the possibility of the Texas rancher moving to Wyoming with him.

I really doubt it...Jack had never asked Ennis to move back his parent's ranch in the 20 years they had been together, why would he have asked the Texas Rancher after only a few months?

3.  Alma Jr,'s visit to Ennis' trailer occurred more than one year after Ennis' visit to Jack's parents.  I had originally thought that the time between the two scenes was much shorter.  It is MOVING to realize that close to 2 years after Jack's death, Ennis WAS STILL VERY MUCH IN MOURNING FOR JACK.  Presumably, Ennis would be in mourning for the rest of his life!

Me too...I thought the same, that it had happened straight afterwards. Timewise it had made more sense to me. but now I'm so confused, was she 19 when she got married or 19 when she told Ennis, coz if she was born in spring 1964 or even June, then she would have been 20 for her wedding...21 years after Ennis and Jack had met...and this would go back to the idea that she got married just a year after Jack's death (maybe near to the 1st anniversary of his death)!

Oh my god, my brain is going crazy with dates now!
I have to read this again to make sure I made sense...

[stephan]

According to the screenplay, we have the established dates for the final scenes:

I.  The final meeting of Ennis and Jack occurred in 1981.
II.  The phone calll between Ennis and Lureen, and Ennis' visit to Jack's parents occurred in 1982.
III.  The visit of Alma Jr. to Ennis' trailer to announce her wedding occurred in 1884.

Liam56 and I were shocked to reach the following conscusions:


1.  In the last meeting, Ennis was actually proposing to Jack that IT WOULD BE CLOSE TO ONE YEAR BEFORE THEY COULD MEET AGAIN!!!!!  No wonder Jack was so angry with Ennis!!!!!!!!!  I had originally thought that the last meeting occured during spring and they would meet the following November OF THE SAME YEAR.  The screenplay obviously SHOOTS THIS DOWN. 

2.  Between FALL of 1981 and SPRING of 1982, Jack must have decided to divorce Lureen and he probably got sufficiently  involved with the Texas ranch neighbor to suggest the possibility of the Texas rancher moving to Wyoming with him.   JACK MUST HAVE DIED EARLY SUMMER OF 1982.

3.  Alma Jr,'s visit to Ennis' trailer occurred more than one year after Ennis' visit to Jack's parents.  I had originally thought that the time between the two scenes was much shorter.  It is MOVING to realize that close to 2 years after Jack's death, Ennis WAS STILL VERY MUCH IN MOURNING FOR JACK.  Presumably, Ennis would be in mourning for the rest of his life!

Your post astounds me, tpe. I have to agree with froggy123 that
- they meet in the spring, had already talked about August and November of the same year, then Ennis cancels August. Why does it have to be 1981 ? August 1981 would have been their 18th anniversary.
- Jack never talks to Ennis about moving to his parents' ranch, he says that to his parents.

Lureen tells Ennis on the phone that Jack was 39. Jack and Ennis meet in 1963. So if Jack was 20 in the spring of 1963, he's 39 in spring of 1982 : that fits. So the two are together for 19 yrs 1963-1982).
But we could also say that Jack was born in August 1943, he was 19 going on 20 when he met Ennis in July 1963, and he was 39 going on 40 in the spring of 1983 !!
It seems plausible that Jack dies in spring of 1983. The last meeting is in the same year, perhaps only weeks before Jack dies. August comes around, and Ennis writes to remind Jack of their rendez-vous for that November, but the card gets sent back. Ennis goes off to see Jack's parents.
As for Alma Jr, who knows when she was born ? Why not September 1964 or Feb 1965 ? Let's say she's born in June 1964. She's 18 going on 19 when Jack dies in 1983. The following year, 1984, she tells Daddy she's getting married in June, maybe just before her 20th birthday.
Are those maths right ?? It shortens Ennis's mourning, but lengthens the time the two have together. Which is what everyone wants, right ?  :'(
Stephan

[guajillo55]

tpe - I think you were right the first time - that the time between the last two scenes is fairly short short. You can figure this out by Alma Jr's age.

She was born in early 1964. When she asked her dad to move in with him she was 17, so that was 1981. At age 19, when she would marry, it would be June 1983. It couldn't be 1984 -- she would be 20 years old then and we know better.

So Jack and Ennis did meet early spring '81 and were going to get together that November. If it would have been November 1982 Jack would have said somehting like -- "That's more than a year!" On top of that, I don't believe Ennis would ever let anything prevent him from seeing Jackfor  that long.

IMO, anyway.

[tpe]

Hello everyone.

  Thanks for your input.  Unfortunately, the said dates are indeed carefully written down for each scene in the screenplay.  The pivotal dates were 1981 for the last meeting, 1982 for the call to Lureeen and the visit to Jack's parents, and 1984 for the visit of Alma Jr.  Frankly, I was quite surprised not to have noted more carefully these dates in the screenplay early on.  Assuming these dates are correct, one seems to end up with no other plausible scenario than what I outlined above.

  Given the above dates, do think about a possible timeline that may be different from what I presented.  But I'm afraid we must assume correctness of the above pivotal dates if we assume that the published screenplay is correct.

[tpe]

According to the screenplay, we have the established dates for the final scenes:
I.  The final meeting of Ennis and Jack occurred in 1981.
II.  The phone calll between Ennis and Lureen, and Ennis' visit to Jack's parents occurred in 1982.
III.  The visit of Alma Jr. to Ennis' trailer to announce her wedding occurred in 1884.

Where did you find this exactly? Are the dates really in the screenplay?

Hello Froggy.  Yes, I assumed this initially, but it is clear from the screenplay dates that Jack died sometime in the summer of 1982.  See below for an explanation.

A.  THE LAST MEETING OF ENNIS AND JACK MUST HAVE OCCURRED DURING THE FALL OF 1981.

I always assumed that it had been spring! :-\ And so If they were meant to meet again in August (as planned) it would have been only a few months away, and then Ennis said not till November...But why 1981..? Jack and Ennis met in 1963 and were together 20 years (including the 4 years appart) no?

C.  Alma Jr.'s wedding was in 1984.  Since the wedding was on June 5 of that year, the visit to Ennis' trailer MUST HAVE BEEN SPRING OF 1984.

And this for me was going to be the spring following Jack's death.
Ennis had married Alma in September 1963...Alma Jr was born a +/- 9 months later (Spring or June 1964) The story states that Alma Jr was 19 when she was going to get married (1983)...Jack and Ennis had been 20 years together..made more sense to me.

1.  In the last meeting, Ennis was actually proposing to Jack that IT WOULD BE CLOSE TO ONE YEAR BEFORE THEY COULD MEET AGAIN!!!!!  No wonder Jack was so angry with Ennis!!!!!!!!!  I had originally thought that the last meeting occured during spring and they would meet the following November OF THE SAME YEAR.  The screenplay obviously SHOOTS THIS DOWN. 

Really? Why?

The reason why 1982 is the date of Jack's death is as follows.  The screenplay says that the visit to Jack's parents was 1982.  From the scenery outside the house of Jack's parents, we know that it must have been fall or spring (since all the trees and grasses were dead).  Since Jack's father stated that 'this Spring', Jack visited and told them that he was planning to move back with the Texas rancher, then Ennis' visit must have been fall of 1982.  Therefore, Jack died between Spring of 1982 and Fall of 1982 -- presumably early summer.

2.  Between FALL of 1981 and SPRING of 1982, Jack must have decided to divorce Lureen and he probably got sufficiently  involved with the Texas ranch neighbor to suggest the possibility of the Texas rancher moving to Wyoming with him.

I really doubt it...Jack had never asked Ennis to move back his parent's ranch in the 20 years they had been together, why would he have asked the Texas Rancher after only a few months?

3.  Alma Jr,'s visit to Ennis' trailer occurred more than one year after Ennis' visit to Jack's parents.  I had originally thought that the time between the two scenes was much shorter.  It is MOVING to realize that close to 2 years after Jack's death, Ennis WAS STILL VERY MUCH IN MOURNING FOR JACK.  Presumably, Ennis would be in mourning for the rest of his life!

Me too...I thought the same, that it had happened straight afterwards. Timewise it had made more sense to me. but now I'm so confused, was she 19 when she got married or 19 when she told Ennis, coz if she was born in spring 1964 or even June, then she would have been 20 for her wedding...21 years after Ennis and Jack had met...and this would go back to the idea that she got married just a year after Jack's death (maybe near to the 1st anniversary of his death)!

Oh my god, my brain is going crazy with dates now!
I have to read this again to make sure I made sense...

Yes Froggy, I am also going crazy with the dates. I couln't sleep after discovering the ramifications of the published dates in the screenplay...

[tpe]

tpe - I think you were right the first time - that the time between the last two scenes is fairly short short. You can figure this out by Alma Jr's age.

She was born in early 1964. When she asked her dad to move in with him she was 17, so that was 1981. At age 19, when she would marry, it would be June 1983. It couldn't be 1984 -- she would be 20 years old then and we know better.

So Jack and Ennis did meet early spring '81 and were going to get together that November. If it would have been November 1982 Jack would have said somehting like -- "That's more than a year!" On top of that, I don't believe Ennis would ever let anything prevent him from seeing Jackfor  that long.

IMO, anyway.

Thanks guajillo55 for your comments.  But, unfortunately, the published screenplay gives the exact date of the visit of Alma Jr. as 1984.  So unless the published screenplay is in error, we are stuck with this terminal date...

[tpe]

According to the screenplay, we have the established dates for the final scenes:

I.  The final meeting of Ennis and Jack occurred in 1981.
II.  The phone calll between Ennis and Lureen, and Ennis' visit to Jack's parents occurred in 1982.
III.  The visit of Alma Jr. to Ennis' trailer to announce her wedding occurred in 1884.

Liam56 and I were shocked to reach the following conscusions:


1.  In the last meeting, Ennis was actually proposing to Jack that IT WOULD BE CLOSE TO ONE YEAR BEFORE THEY COULD MEET AGAIN!!!!!  No wonder Jack was so angry with Ennis!!!!!!!!!  I had originally thought that the last meeting occured during spring and they would meet the following November OF THE SAME YEAR.  The screenplay obviously SHOOTS THIS DOWN. 

2.  Between FALL of 1981 and SPRING of 1982, Jack must have decided to divorce Lureen and he probably got sufficiently  involved with the Texas ranch neighbor to suggest the possibility of the Texas rancher moving to Wyoming with him.   JACK MUST HAVE DIED EARLY SUMMER OF 1982.

3.  Alma Jr,'s visit to Ennis' trailer occurred more than one year after Ennis' visit to Jack's parents.  I had originally thought that the time between the two scenes was much shorter.  It is MOVING to realize that close to 2 years after Jack's death, Ennis WAS STILL VERY MUCH IN MOURNING FOR JACK.  Presumably, Ennis would be in mourning for the rest of his life!

Your post astounds me, tpe. I have to agree with froggy123 that
- they meet in the spring, had already talked about August and November of the same year, then Ennis cancels August. Why does it have to be 1981 ? August 1981 would have been their 18th anniversary.
- Jack never talks to Ennis about moving to his parents' ranch, he says that to his parents.

Lureen tells Ennis on the phone that Jack was 39. Jack and Ennis meet in 1963. So if Jack was 20 in the spring of 1963, he's 39 in spring of 1982 : that fits. So the two are together for 19 yrs 1963-1982).
But we could also say that Jack was born in August 1943, he was 19 going on 20 when he met Ennis in July 1963, and he was 39 going on 40 in the spring of 1983 !!
It seems plausible that Jack dies in spring of 1983. The last meeting is in the same year, perhaps only weeks before Jack dies. August comes around, and Ennis writes to remind Jack of their rendez-vous for that November, but the card gets sent back. Ennis goes off to see Jack's parents.
As for Alma Jr, who knows when she was born ? Why not September 1964 or Feb 1965 ? Let's say she's born in June 1964. She's 18 going on 19 when Jack dies in 1983. The following year, 1984, she tells Daddy she's getting married in June, maybe just before her 20th birthday.
Are those maths right ?? It shortens Ennis's mourning, but lengthens the time the two have together. Which is what everyone wants, right ?  :'(
Stephan

Hello Stephan.  Yes, I think your math is right.    But the glitch is that the screenplay gives 1981 as the date of the last meeting and 1982 as the date when Ennis calls Lureen and makes the visit to Jack's parents.  Noting the argument I pointed out in my reply to Froggy, Jack almost certainly died in 1982...

[tpe]

C.  Alma Jr.'s wedding was in 1984.  Since the wedding was on June 5 of that year, the visit to Ennis' trailer MUST HAVE BEEN SPRING OF 1984.

And this for me was going to be the spring following Jack's death.
Ennis had married Alma in September 1963...Alma Jr was born a +/- 9 months later (Spring or June 1964) The story states that Alma Jr was 19 when she was going to get married (1983)...Jack and Ennis had been 20 years together..made more sense to me.

Froggy, to be more precise as to the above: Ennis married Alma in November of 1963.  If you add 9 months to this, it would mean that Alma Jr. was born in around August of 1964.  Since the wedding announcement occurred before June 5 of 1984 (the wedding date), Alma Jr. was still 19 years old when he visited Ennis in his trailer.

[*Froggy*]

C.  Alma Jr.'s wedding was in 1984.  Since the wedding was on June 5 of that year, the visit to Ennis' trailer MUST HAVE BEEN SPRING OF 1984.

And this for me was going to be the spring following Jack's death.
Ennis had married Alma in September 1963...Alma Jr was born a +/- 9 months later (Spring or June 1964) The story states that Alma Jr was 19 when she was going to get married (1983)...Jack and Ennis had been 20 years together..made more sense to me.

Froggy, to be more precise as to the above: Ennis married Alma in November of 1963.  If you add 9 months to this, it would mean that Alma Jr. was born in around August of 1964.  Since the wedding announcement occurred before June 5 of 1984 (the wedding date), Alma Jr. was still 19 years old when he visited Ennis in his trailer.

Thank you for all your hard work..and the answers...moua xxx

[stephan]

Hello tpe,
thanks for all the work. I have to admit I'm glad the film doesn't mention any dates apart from 1963. 1982 seems to soon, only 18 yrs with your soul mate. If I'm not careful I'm going to start crying now... Stephan

[scruffy]

The screenplay dates can work.  Alma Jr. most likely wasn't born 9 months after Ennis's wedding/honneymoon in November of 1963 which would make an interesting twist to the story.  It looks like after the Summer on Brokeback with Jack, Ennis had trouble consumating the marriage.  That is probably why he finally turns Alma Sr. over.  If we learn that Alma is 19 years old in 1984 she was born in 1965.  That would be up to a year before Ennis found a way to pysically get over Jack, so to speak.

The last meeting is in 1981.  It can still be spring with a planned meeting in November of the same year.  Jack died sometime between.   Lureen is said to have been a spitfire when it came to office efficiency so there is reason to assume that there was no delay with the DECEASED mail.

Ennis most likely took a long time to muster the strength to call Lureen.  The evidence behind this is in the funeral arrangements.  Jack was already cremated, the stone was put up and ashes sent to Jack's parents.  It may take a short time to plan and excecute a funeral (within a few weeks) but a stone takes a while to be carved and placed on a gravesite.  The tone of the phone conversation seems to suggest that time had passed.  Ennis asks if Jack was burried.  Lureen apologizes for not getting in touch.  These aren't questions and comments made by someone who just got a DECEASED letter.

That's my take on it.

[camom]

All these dates have my head spinning, but the one thing I do remember is that the short story says that Ennis married Alma in December '63 and had her pregnant by mid-January ('64), which means Alma Jr. was born approx. 9/64.  So if she was 19 at the time of the trailer scene, it had to be during or after September of 1983.

camom

[Kindred]

The screenplay dates can work.  Alma Jr. most likely wasn't born 9 months after Ennis's wedding/honneymoon in November of 1963 which would make an interesting twist to the story.  It looks like after the Summer on Brokeback with Jack, Ennis had trouble consumating the marriage.  That is probably why he finally turns Alma Sr. over.  If we learn that Alma is 19 years old in 1984 she was born in 1965.  That would be up to a year before Ennis found a way to pysically get over Jack, so to speak.

According to the short story:

"In December Ennis married Alma Beers and had her pregnant by mid-January."

It doesn't appear he had any trouble consumating the marriage.

[tpe]

Hello tpe,
thanks for all the work. I have to admit I'm glad the film doesn't mention any dates apart from 1963. 1982 seems to soon, only 18 yrs with your soul mate. If I'm not careful I'm going to start crying now... Stephan

Of all the conclusions I had outlined. what disturbs me the most is that Ennis was actually proposing a delay of almost ONE YEAR for the next meeting with Jack. My heart goes out to Jack...   The frustration... The anger...

[scruffy]

All these dates have my head spinning, but the one thing I do remember is that the short story says that Ennis married Alma in December '63 and had her pregnant by mid-January ('64), which means Alma Jr. was born approx. 9/64.  So if she was 19 at the time of the trailer scene, it had to be during or after September of 1983.

camom

Well there goes my theory on that one.  However, I can see Ang Lee taking some liberties with the story.  That's for the info.

[sharve]

If I may, I would like to add to the confusion.

In the short story (SS),the Holy Scriptures as I like to say, there are only three dates mentioned.

1. 1963, from spring (maybe May) til  about a week after August 13th. That was the summer on BBM. We all seem to agree on that. We also know that Jack spent part of the 63-64 winter in Lightning Flat (waiting for Ennis to show up no doubt, but stupid Ennis didn't!)

2. June 24, 1967 (four years later - a Saturday by the way - four years later, when Jack and Ennis reunited and the rest is history as they say.

3. May 1983, the last reunion somewhere on the Hail Strew River drainage.

However, several other dates can be inferred.

4. During their spring '83 last meet, we read that Alma jr is 17 and that Francine is 15. We know that Alma jr was born in September, so she would be 18 that coming Sept. Now, 83 - 18 gives a birth year of 1965.

5. If we read correctly, Alma became pregnant the following month after her marriage, that would imply that Ennis and Alma were married in December 64 not 63. More than one year after BBM.

6. Alma and Ennis divorced when Alma jr was 9, so the divorce was pronounced sometime before Sept '73.

7. After that May '83 reunion, Jack went to Lightning Flat (still again stupid Ennis didn't show up) before returning to Texas to meet his fate sometime in early summer.

8. Fall '83, Ennis receives the deceased postcard and goes to Lightning Flat (Stupid Ennis, it's too late for Lightning Flat!)

9. Fall '83, Ennis buys a BBM postcard, pins it in his trailer, along with the shirts and declares, 'Jack, I swear-'.

10. Now if Jack was 39 at the time of his death in 1983, he would have been born in 1944, thus 19 during the summer of 1963 on BBM.

Comments?...

[Surf501]

I posted this on IMDB.  Hope you enjoy it too:

Here goes after seeing the movie eight times, and reading the published version of the screenplay, certain year milestones are noted:

1963 - The year they meet, summer. After Brokeback, Ennis marries Alma the same year.

1964 - Ennis and Alma are married, and expecting their first child. The movie at the Drive-in is "Surf Party", from 1964.

1966 - Fourth of July when Ennis beats up the foul mouthed Biker. The announcer in the background clearly says Fourth of July, 1966. Same summer, Jack attempts to pick up Jimbo the Rodeo Clown, then meets Lureen.

1967 - Four years after the summer on Brokeback, Jack and Ennis reunite.

Flashback: 1952 - Ennis' father takes him and his brother to see the murdered body of Earl, the rancher. Ennis says he is 9 years old, which means he must have turned 20 later in the fall of 1963, after the summer on Brokeback, which makes sense since the book says he was "not yet twenty", which seems to imply "not yet twenty, but almost/soon will be".

1969 - The "Where's my Blue Parka?" scene. The screenplay is messed up here about dates. In the space of two pages the year changes from 1971 to 1969 to a scene with a wall calendar that says 1973! I think that 1969 is supposed to be the correct year, but then why would little Bobby need a tutor at age of only 2 or 3? In the movie though we are free to place it in any year we choose in a given late sixties, early 70's range.

1972 - The montage where Jack is letting bobby drive the tractor and Ennis is baling hay out the back of a truck

1973 - Ennis and Alma sit in their apartment on a Saturday night and watch an episode of "Kojack". Alma wants to go to the Church social, but Ennis dosesn't feel like hanging out with "..that fire and brimstone crowd."

1975 - Ennis and Alma divorce. The date is read by the judge. I believe it's in July. The 5th? (Correction: The date of their divorce is November 6th) Jack drives up to see Ennis, hoping this means they will now be able to live together.

1977 - Thanksgiving with Ennis at Alma and Monroe's, and at the Twist Household. You hear the year read by the announcer at the football game on television. The screenplay describes Bobby as being 10, which means he would have had to be two when he needed the tutor.

1978 - Jack and Ennis go to the Mountains again, "Aww go to hell Ennis Del Mar, you want to live your miserable *beep* life, go ahead..." Jack and Lureen meet Randall and LaShawn Malone, at a benefit dinner dance. Ennis meets Cassie.

1979 - Scene with Ennis, Cassie, and Alma Jr. at the bar. The screenplay describes Alma Jr. as 15 yrs,

1981/1983 - Jack and Ennis meet for the last time in 1981 (screenplay) or 1983 (book). In the book, Proulx says they go everywhere but back to Brokeback. In the movie it seems like they always return to Brokeback or we assume so. Cassie confronts Ennis in the Diner.

1982 - In the screenplay, this is the year Jack is killed, and Ennis has the phone coversation with Lureen. Ennis meets Jack's parents.

1984 - Final scenes in movie with Ennis and Alma Jr., the reversed shirts.

"You know it could be like this, just like this, always"
Black Hat White Hat

[scruffy]

Gee Thanks.  Now I'm completely baffled.

My guess is that the movie strayed away from the book with the dates.  If a calendar on the wall has a date or a TV announcer gives a date that is what I go by unless it is an obvious mistake.

[camom]

Gee Thanks.  Now I'm completely baffled.

Ha, me too.  Think I'll just have to leave it at Ennis breaking poor Jack's heart and his own along with it,whatever year it was.

If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it. 

camom

[tpe]

I posted this on IMDB.  Hope you enjoy it too:

Here goes after seeing the movie eight times, and reading the published version of the screenplay, certain year milestones are noted:

1963 - The year they meet, summer. After Brokeback, Ennis marries Alma the same year.

1964 - Ennis and Alma are married, and expecting their first child. The movie at the Drive-in is "Surf Party", from 1964.

1966 - Fourth of July when Ennis beats up the foul mouthed Biker. The announcer in the background clearly says Fourth of July, 1966. Same summer, Jack attempts to pick up Jimbo the Rodeo Clown, then meets Lureen.

1967 - Four years after the summer on Brokeback, Jack and Ennis reunite.

Flashback: 1952 - Ennis' father takes him and his brother to see the murdered body of Earl, the rancher. Ennis says he is 9 years old, which means he must have turned 20 later in the fall of 1963, after the summer on Brokeback, which makes sense since the book says he was "not yet twenty", which seems to imply "not yet twenty, but almost/soon will be".

1969 - The "Where's my Blue Parka?" scene. The screenplay is messed up here about dates. In the space of two pages the year changes from 1971 to 1969 to a scene with a wall calendar that says 1973! I think that 1969 is supposed to be the correct year, but then why would little Bobby need a tutor at age of only 2 or 3? In the movie though we are free to place it in any year we choose in a given late sixties, early 70's range.

1972 - The montage where Jack is letting bobby drive the tractor and Ennis is baling hay out the back of a truck

1973 - Ennis and Alma sit in their apartment on a Saturday night and watch an episode of "Kojack". Alma wants to go to the Church social, but Ennis dosesn't feel like hanging out with "..that fire and brimstone crowd."

1975 - Ennis and Alma divorce. The date is read by the judge. I believe it's in July. The 5th? (Correction: The date of their divorce is November 6th) Jack drives up to see Ennis, hoping this means they will now be able to live together.

1977 - Thanksgiving with Ennis at Alma and Monroe's, and at the Twist Household. You hear the year read by the announcer at the football game on television. The screenplay describes Bobby as being 10, which means he would have had to be two when he needed the tutor.

1978 - Jack and Ennis go to the Mountains again, "Aww go to hell Ennis Del Mar, you want to live your miserable *beep* life, go ahead..." Jack and Lureen meet Randall and LaShawn Malone, at a benefit dinner dance. Ennis meets Cassie.

1979 - Scene with Ennis, Cassie, and Alma Jr. at the bar. The screenplay describes Alma Jr. as 15 yrs,

1981/1983 - Jack and Ennis meet for the last time in 1981 (screenplay) or 1983 (book). In the book, Proulx says they go everywhere but back to Brokeback. In the movie it seems like they always return to Brokeback or we assume so. Cassie confronts Ennis in the Diner.

1982 - In the screenplay, this is the year Jack is killed, and Ennis has the phone coversation with Lureen. Ennis meets Jack's parents.

1984 - Final scenes in movie with Ennis and Alma Jr., the reversed shirts.

"You know it could be like this, just like this, always"
Black Hat White Hat

Thanks Surf501, and welcome.

So it seems that you agree with our conlusions -- as far as the screenplay goes.  Sad to think that Ennis delayed meeting Jack for about a year.

Gyllenhaal gesticulates to the mountain in front of him in the great fight scene ('and all we've got is Brokeback Mountain!')  The screenplay takes care to indicate that the fishing trips are set in the 'Wyoming Mountains'.  This is not the case in the 1963 scenes, when the screenplay specifies the site as Brokeback Mountain.  Hence, my conclusion here is that their fishing trips were located in another mountain, but WITH A VIEW OF BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.

[justlikethisalways]

surf501,

Great post on the timeline, thanks. Each time I've seen BBM I found myself trying to figure out the dates of events, so seeing a timeline like this is really helpful.

Not sure if this helps any, but the cancellation marks on the postcards also provide dates -- and may very well be in conflict with dates in the screenplay (don't have the SP yet only the SS):

In the thread titled "When you can slow it down you sure catch a lot of tidbits" the date of the 1967 reunion is reckoned to be Sept. 24, 1967, based on Jack's postcard (cancellation date is September 1967 and Jack says he will be in Riverton on the 24th). This would also mean that Bobby (Jack's son) was born approx. Jan. 24, 1967 since he says that he was 8 months old while he's introducing himself to Alma Sr.

Jack sends Ennis a postcard in 1972 (Alma reads it and sticks back in the mail on the table) shortly before the blue parka scene. Jack is looking for his blue parka because he is getting ready for the trip mentioned in that postcard. So the blue parka scene would seem to be late '72/early '73 instead of 1969. Which makes sense with regard to Bobby needing a tutor, since he'd have been 5 instead of 2-3. However this doesn't help clarify the mess of dates for this scene (1969/1971/1973, now possibly 1972 as well).

I also suspect that this fishing trip was when Alma put the note in Ennis' creel case. As Ennis is leaving she says "Aren't you forgetting something?" Ennis comes back, grabs it and leaves, then afterward Alma appears to be thinking about something. Also the case was supposed to have been five years old (in the "Jack nasty" scene Alma says that the price tag was still on it after five years). If Ennis had bought some new fishing gear after their 1967 reunion (as cover for his alleged fishing trips), then 1972/73 would have been five years later.

[*Froggy*]

I posted this on IMDB.  Hope you enjoy it too:

Thanks for the post , and welcome... Froggy

[romeshvr]

Ok.  I'm confused.  If Jack's son was 15 in May 1983, then he would have have to be born sometime late 1967 or early 1968.  If this is the case then it doesn't make sense when Jack met up with Ennis after Brokeback to say his son was eight months old in June 24th, 1967.  If Jack's son was eight months old in June 24th, 1967, he would have have to be born sometime in October 24th, 1966.  If this is the case, Jack's son would be 16+ in May 1983. 

Here is where Jack says his son is 15 from May 1983 meeting "Jack slid his cold hand between Ennis’s legs, said he was worried about his boy who was, no doubt about it, dyslexic or something, couldn’t get anything right, fifteen years old and couldn’t hardly read, he could see it though goddam Lureen wouldn’t admit to it and pretended the kid was O.K., refused to get any bitchin kind a help about it".

Here is the line from the short-story before the actual re-union:

"The fourth summer since Brokeback Mountain came on and in June Ennis had a general-delivery letter from Jack Twist, the first sign of life in all that time."

What if the "the fourth summer since Brokeback Mountain came on and in June" meant, four summers passed and the following June.  Something about fourth summer since doesn't sit right with me.  This would tie in with Jack mentioning his son was 15 in May 1983 - this would mean Jack's son was born in October 1967 and he was eight months old when Ennis and Jack reunited in June of 1968.

Maybe I missed something obvious somewhere.  Any comments....

[*Froggy*]

OMG ...you've confused me...I'll check it tomorrow morning...my poor brain can't cope right now!

[romeshvr]

OMG ...you've confused me...I'll check it tomorrow morning...my poor brain can't cope right now!

Good.  Something for you to think about.  I want some good arguments.  Because we got a B**** of an unsatisfactory situation here.

[camom]

Ok.  I'm confused.  If Jack's son was 15 in May 1983, then he would have have to be born sometime late 1967 or early 1968.  If this is the case then it doesn't make sense when Jack met up with Ennis after Brokeback to say his son was eight months old in June 24th, 1967.  If Jack's son was eight months old in June 24th, 1967, he would have have to be born sometime in October 24th, 1966.  If this is the case, Jack's son would be 16+ in May 1983. 

Here is where Jack says his son is 15 from May 1983 meeting "Jack slid his cold hand between Ennis’s legs, said he was worried about his boy who was, no doubt about it, dyslexic or something, couldn’t get anything right, fifteen years old and couldn’t hardly read, he could see it though goddam Lureen wouldn’t admit to it and pretended the kid was O.K., refused to get any bitchin kind a help about it".

Here is the line from the short-story before the actual re-union:

"The fourth summer since Brokeback Mountain came on and in June Ennis had a general-delivery letter from Jack Twist, the first sign of life in all that time."

What if the "the fourth summer since Brokeback Mountain came on and in June" meant, four summers passed and the following June.  Something about fourth summer since doesn't sit right with me.  This would tie in with Jack mentioning his son was 15 in May 1983 - this would mean Jack's son was born in October 1967 and he was eight months old when Ennis and Jack reunited in June of 1968.

Maybe I missed something obvious somewhere.  Any comments....

My brain is just too tired to think about all these dates, but I can comment on one thing.  I saw BBM again yesterday, and I distinctly remember that the postmark on the first postcard from Jack (the "reunion" one) was September 1967.  I remember because I was thinking it was almost exactly four years.  So Jack's son was born about January 1967.

camom

[chrissy323]

[Gyllenhaal gesticulates to the mountain in front of him in the great fight scene ('and all we've got is Brokeback Mountain!')  The screenplay takes care to indicate that the fishing trips are set in the 'Wyoming Mountains'.  This is not the case in the 1963 scenes, when the screenplay specifies the site as Brokeback Mountain.  Hence, my conclusion here is that their fishing trips were located in another mountain, but WITH A VIEW OF BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.

When Jack is looking for his parka and Lureen asks why Ennis doesn't ever come down to Texas to fish, Jack said its because the Big Horn Mountains aren't in Texas, or something to that affect.

Chrissy