That's the only way he could have ended up on Park/National Forest land. Someone scattering his ashes on the QT. Says alot about family ties to Mom and Dad and Lureen. Brokeback was more important! :'( Titus.
Have thought it odd that Jack was cremated, even though that was evidently his wish. It was even less common than it is now. Did he hope in his heart that Jack would be able to take his ashes to BBM (or maybe even keep them)? Lureen showed no will to do that, but she knew that was where he wanted to be, his favorite place. Jack expressed this wish and maybe thought that Lureen would know thta Ennis would do it even if she wouldn't.
Most of my family members want to be cremated, they do not want to be buried in a cemetery, they've all chosen places where they want to rest, and you can't bury them there.
My father wants his ashes scattered in the Ocean, so that every time I see a river or go to the ocean, I can put a flower in the water and he will get it. :'(
Cham - you can come cry with Cody...between the music and the posts... :'(
I think it has to do with both. The way in which he died, no one wants to see it, even after the fact because it reinforces. Plus I think Jack wanted to go to the only place he ever knew any happiness. With Ennis on Brokeback.
Frog, when the time comes, I wlll come be by your side and hold your hand. I will toss a flower in rememberance.
I too want to be cremated for the reason, that I wan't to spread to the wind in a few of my favorite places.
Most of my family members want to be cremated, they do not want to be buried in a cemetery, they've all chosen places where they want to rest, and you can't bury them there.
My father wants his ashes scattered in the Ocean, so that every time I see a river or go to the ocean, I can put a flower in the water and he will get it. :'(
you got me now :'(
cremation means that after death...you want to be free...you do not want to be trapped in a plot somewhere...you've paid ur dues in your life time, now, u 've earned your freedom. :'( :'( :'(
can't we get any sadder?
cremation means that after death...you want to be free...you do not want to be trapped in a plot somewhere...you've paid ur dues in your life time, now, u 've earned your freedom. :'( :'( :'(
can't we get any sadder?
No sadder roguejedi!
Relieved, thanks for sharing! Great post!
Thank you :-) *Hugs*
finally, i can see a smiley on this board...
drew
Hem, need some shoulder my friend :-\
I didn't know that it used to be uncommon. Everyone on my Mom's side gets cremated, and I'd like to be cremated when I die.
The place of BBM, accordin to Annie Proulx is somewhere in the Big Horn Range. Lightn'n Flat is just at the northern end of the Big Horn range.
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General Discussion
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Siredevienne, you give us 3 very good reason for the choice of cremation for Jack
his want to link to BBM (Ennnis) - his free will - and the need to break from his family.
All very valid.
thnx, BTW, there is one reason more, I guess: Remeber the scene where Jack considers to shott an animal because he was fed up with eating only beans? Ennsi replied he would stick to beans, while Kack replied that he won't! There is some defiance in his worlds not to arrange with the existing circumstances......... and this defiance is part of his character - therefore he does not want to hide his sexuality & be cremated like hs folks, too!!!!
Great index!!!!!!!!! Thanks for making it ethan! /Katie
However, his discussions with Lureen about BBM didn't seem very detailed, because she didn't know why he liked it there. He hadn't even given her a ficticious reason.
When Ennis told her they herded sheep up there in 1963 she said, "Well, he said it was his favorite place...now I know why."
QuoteWhen Ennis told her they herded sheep up there in 1963 she said, "Well, he said it was his favorite place...now I know why."
Lureen never said "I know why". From the short story, the screenplay and the movie sticks to the lines from both and they are the same:
"Well, he said it was his place. I tought he meant to get drunk. Drink whiskey up there. He drank a lot."
I thought that it was symbolic for Lureen to keep half of Jack's cremains near her and Bobby and send the other half to where he grew up and be allowed to be scattered on Brokeback if his parents knew where that was. She only had part (half) of Jack in life and she would keep half after his death. She wasn't as heartless as Jack's old man who wanted to stick him in the family plot, bury him on the "grieving plain". :\'(
Yeah for Jack BBM was the place he was the happiest and that's where he wanted to return.
How are we going to ensure that our ashes are scattered on BBM?
I dont fancy a being cremated or buried, what if you are not dead %(, just stand me in the corner
My theory, :*( its jack finally finding away to qiut Ennis, faking his own death, Lureen / LD in on it because the shame she feels, there's a story there, if one has'nt been done already.
What I want to ask here is - how logical is that a young man, before 39 years of age decides to be cremated and expressed his wish to his wife. Isn't it too early?
Well, honey, about this....I'm only 30 and fours years ago I said to my parents that if something happened to me I want to be cremated. I think that death can find us in 6 years or maybe next hour...We don't know, so a ton of people like to make sure that their wishes are known with enough time. I also made clear almost 10 years ago what I want them to do with my organs when I die, so....maybe Jack just only needed to be sure that he'd be in the place he loved the most, the place where he was really and truly happy.
He travelled a lot, not only to see Ennis but also because of his job (at least in the SS) and roads are dangerous, so maybe he was only being cautious and let Lureen know what he wanted to be done when he die.... ^f^
I don't seem to recall, but I think that in the 1980s, cremation was no longer so exotic in the USA. I suspect that he must have made the decision later in life, since I think that during the 1960s, people in the USA still had qualms about cremation -- am I correct? The fear of cremation is rooted in the belief of bodily resurrection, and the notion that in cremation, regular fire touches the body and burns it in the usual way.
Cremation was convenient for lureen also.
Here's a possible twist:
Perhaps Jack only commented that he wanted his ashes to be brought to BBM -- not literally, but in a way we express a desire to be buried in some place. He could have meant cremation, or actual burial, perhaps, when he made such a comment. I suspect that Jack didn't have a will, and that he only commented at one point to lureen that he wanted his ashes scattered on BBM. But after the "accident", perhaps lureen thought it expedient to cremate the body, in order to hide the marks of violence and avert suspicion as to the nature of death.
You always have a good reply tpe! ^f^
Do you believe that Lureen had something to do with jack's death? I can't believe so, cos she loved him at least at the beginning and for me it would be devastated that even the person Jack was living with was his enemy. I really hate to think that and it is hard for me to believe it.
Maybe she even didn't see his corps... :\'( , but only made a decision, not knowing about his (maybe) violent death.
Even if it seems difficult to understand,I have just found this old topic today and it's rather interesting,IMO.I can't speak about if cremation was an usual costume in the rural America of the 80's ,but about Spain,it has been more usual even than the bury in the last years,but not so much in this time.
However,I suppose that Jack had spoken about this possibility as he had signed already a will,as a way of letting everything arranged for his wife and,above all,his son.Yes,he was young enough as not to think about this still,but,as Tammy has said,his way of living-travelling a lot and,even,why not?,thinking in some unlucky "accident" during his Mexico trips...-might perfectly oblige him to have all these questions already decided.And it could be a good excuse for Lureen in order that nobody could see the signals of his violent death-specially,if it was not a mere traffic accident...-,what maybe was then the most important thing for her.I think they were living far from each other enough the last years as not to be interested in the way Jack had his last home,if it's could be moreover a "problem" for her social status.
As regards to Jack's wishes to be cremated,well,as a matter of fact this would be the only way of being free in the only place he had felt happy and he had been himself.For an only and last time in his life,the wind runs in his favour...
Well, in a separate thread about the subject, I did bring up the possibility that Lureen had something to do with Jack's death. I don't recall exactly where it is at the moment, but the thread something like "How did Jack die" or something like this...
If she had something to do with Jack's death, then cremation would have been quite convenient, I guess... It also ties in beautifully with his not informing Ennis about the death. The explanation is that she didn't know his address. But I wonder sometimes...
Conspiracy theories! ;D
I think that like in Spain, rural America was just as conservative in this regard. Things were changing in the 80s, but I suspect that most people still looked at cremation with some suspicion.
About the will -- I don't know. I see your point about it being natural for him to mitigate risks. But Lureen was really his partner in supporting the family -- perhaps the dominant partner, even. And this is reflected by Jack's ready willingness to leave his family to live with Ennis -- he knew that Lureen could get by with the family business. So I don't think that he ever wrote a will -- as is still common here in the US...
I think that like in Spain, rural America was just as conservative in this regard. Things were changing in the 80s, but I suspect that most people still looked at cremation with some suspicion.
About the will -- I don't know. I see your point about it being natural for him to mitigate risks. But Lureen was really his partner in supporting the family -- perhaps the dominant partner, even. And this is reflected by Jack's ready willingness to leave his family to live with Ennis -- he knew that Lureen could get by with the family business. So I don't think that he ever wrote a will -- as is still common here in the US...
Well, BT was just a minutes quicker. I also wanted to say that LD was dead for years when Jack died.
*o): I know that Catholic church allows cremation, but I want to give the worms a lot of pleasure! ;) and watch them enjoy from above! ;D .
Yes,he was; but not in the movie... %( However,with or without a father by her side,Lureen needed a social image to be held,and having a husband killed for being gay was not the best for this image...
*o) If Catholic Church says that we need our bodies for the resurrection(?)and we end eaten by worms and turned into dust,where is our body then?...Sorry for being so off topic,but I'm agnostic and what Church says it's not my cup of tea... :)
It's not the church matter with me! I'd like to feed a big bunch of worms and not to radiate so much CO2 in the air and also feel so hot while turning to the ashes! (https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi410.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp186%2Floreent%2Fsmiley%2F36_1_47.gif&hash=cf2928c5f53a902a33664188ca4075ab966d3511)
But this is a personal decision for each person.
What do you mean by this - a husband being killed for being gay? You mean that she wanted to hide this fact with the story about an accident? If so, that is very possible!
I have always thought from the very moment I saw the movie that she suspected something in the end-even if she didn't know for sure the reasons for being killed-,that Jack was killed for being gay and that she must hide all this.
That makes a lot of sense, but I don't believe that she was personally involved! She was a bit of a cold woman, but to kill her husband? NO!
In the movie LD is not mentioned any more, but we don't see him alive for a long time, so I suppose that he was gone by the time Jack died.
Also, Jack's death is not clear. Maybe he really died by an accident! I don't know! :s)
No,she didn't kill his husband by herself,even nor knowing if someone else was involved.But it's more than possible that she suspected WHY he had been murdered,and her conversation with Ennis only made her realise what has been a suspicion.
As regards to the causes of Jack's death,you're right; they are not clear,unless you believe Lureen's words about an accident.But,bearing in mind Ennis and Jack's environment in a rural and close-minded 60`s America,I have never found anybody who doesn't believe that it was an homophobic murderer...
Goodness gracious, so many interesting new threads you guys are working on.
Here are my contributions:
Cremation has been a tradition for many cultures, from norse to hindus to other asian cultures. It may not be a greco-christian tradition, but it is not totally unusual.
I think Jack wanted to spend eternity on Brokeback Mountain, with or without Ennis, which meant cremation so the ashes can be moved there. I was surprised at only half went back, and the other half stayed in Texas. That was probably Loreen's idea because she really loved him. She would not have tears, and kept half his ashes if she killed him. That's just unthinkable, in my opinion. It would be totally out of character. She was not a vengeful person. She buried herself in her work and family after Jack started drinking. A vengeful woman would have kicked his ass out of there and divorced him long ago. She was still in love with the debonair cowboy who rushed to pick up her hat, who was too shy to approach her at the dance. She was a victim of Ennis and Jack, not a murderer. The only aggression in her was in the backseat of her daddy's car.
Gorgeous post, Andrew, and I agree with every word, except the idea of Lureen burying herself in work after Jack started to drink. Jack started to drink after the divorce scene, when he really understood that Ennis was not gonna live with him, with Alma or not in the picture. Before that, Jack was his sweet chatty smiling self as he was in BBM. In the parka scene, when Jack is looking for his blue parka, Lureen is so busy with work...She's not even listening to him, and she's not doing for Bobby what Jack asked her to do. Jack there was not drinking. If I remember well he was not even 30, and you can see in the next scene, the fishing trip, his brilliant smile when he sees Ennis arriving. He was happy!! But Lureen already was so busy with work.
I just only wanted to write my take on that, because I think too that Lureen really loved Jack, and that she had nothing to do with his death. I think she cried because she was really sad. Not matter if they were not the perfect couple, or even a couple anymore....Jack was her husband and the father of her son, and that was enough for her. JMHO.
Hey, babe. ^f^
I think that Andrew is talking here about heavy drinking. But I'm sure he tell us later. Of course Jack drank whiskey up in BBM, the same as Ennis, Loreen. Men in that place, that era, working hard in ranches and on mountains used to do that. Way to forget the hard work, way to open and start a conversation, a social behavior in bars and rodeos, a way to keep the body warn in cold nights. I think cowboys started to drink young, you know.
Also Ennis always drank whiskey on those fishing trips just like Jack did. And then beer after beer in bars (Cassie scene).
That's why I think we are talking here about heavy drinking. We never noticed in the film that Jack was drinking more than Ennis. We only know that because Lureen told us, and I think that even Ennis was surprised to hear that. I bet Jack drank way too much when he was in Texas, far from Ennis, hurt and desperate. Sharing a bottle up on the mountain sure seemed normal to Ennis, but he didn't know how much Jack was drinking every day.
But this is only my opinion, babe. :^^)
BT ^f^,
you gave a thought to every little thing in BBM. I respect that a big deal.
I have to say that I didn't notice Ennis' surprise after Lureen said about Jack's drinking. In fact I had the idea that their drinking was far too heavy from the beginning. In SS before the motel scene they bought a bottle of whiskey. For one night!
Some "old" Brokies (you included of course) always surprise me with their insight of so many little details in BBM. I never noticed this and never connected his drinking behavior with Ennis' divorce, but I'm also not saying that it's not so. :s)
I'll have to think a little more about this! :)
:^^) to you too!
I don't think it was "heavy" drinking that they did when young, on the mountain and during the reunion time together. As lancecowboy said also, drinking was just common and natural in their circumstances -- not a big deal at all, unless you were "religious." It would have been totally common to buy a bottle of whiskey to go to the motel, and what they didn't drink, they'd take with them. Not such heavy laws back then about driving with an open bottle and all that.
I have no real ideas about Jack's later supposed heavy drinking, because we didn't see it. What Lureen may have thought is "a lot" might not be all that much.
kathy
Great point, Kathy. A real heavy drinker wouldn't be able to drive fourteen hours each way to meet with Ennis. And he'd have a much bigger gut than the one Jack developed. He didn't age that much more than Ennis, and we know Ennis was drinking a dozen beer sitting at the bar when he met Cassie. Loreen probably thought THAT was drinking a lot. Then again, whiskey is different from beer. Not sure if we are going to get a definitive answer for this.
I think Jack wanted to spend eternity on Brokeback Mountain, with or without Ennis, which meant cremation so the ashes can be moved there. I was surprised at only half went back, and the other half stayed in Texas. That was probably Loreen's idea because she really loved him. She would not have tears, and kept half his ashes if she killed him. That's just unthinkable, in my opinion. It would be totally out of character. She was not a vengeful person. She buried herself in her work and family after Jack started drinking. A vengeful woman would have kicked his ass out of there and divorced him long ago. She was still in love with the debonair cowboy who rushed to pick up her hat, who was too shy to approach her at the dance. She was a victim of Ennis and Jack, not a murderer. The only aggression in her was in the backseat of her daddy's car.
For me cremation is not a strange solution - or the whole thing that a person is thinking his death and burial already at a young age. In the movie the worst thing about burial is John Twist's strong denial, the angry "no". "Tell you what, we got a family plot and he's goin' in it." Jack's ashes belonged to Brokeback Mountain!!!!
I am with you Carmilla. Loreen still has feelings for Jack, and so she shed a tear when Ennis called. Old John Twist was a bully even when Jack's dead. He made his family plot sound like a dagn prison, just like the desolate plain, his ranch was a prison to young Jack's boyhood spirit. It's genius from Ang and Heath to have Ennis, as he was leaving, to look up longingly at the window of Jack's room, and the tiny white-picket fenced-in family plot. It's the motivation for Ennis, in the final scene, to set Jack free, "I swear."
Goodness gracious, so many interesting new threads you guys are working on.
Here are my contributions:
Cremation has been a tradition for many cultures, from norse to hindus to other asian cultures. It may not be a greco-christian tradition, but it is not totally unusual.
I think Jack wanted to spend eternity on Brokeback Mountain, with or without Ennis, which meant cremation so the ashes can be moved there. I was surprised at only half went back, and the other half stayed in Texas. That was probably Loreen's idea because she really loved him. She would not have tears, and kept half his ashes if she killed him. That's just unthinkable, in my opinion. It would be totally out of character. She was not a vengeful person. She buried herself in her work and family after Jack started drinking. A vengeful woman would have kicked his ass out of there and divorced him long ago. She was still in love with the debonair cowboy who rushed to pick up her hat, who was too shy to approach her at the dance. She was a victim of Ennis and Jack, not a murderer. The only aggression in her was in the backseat of her daddy's car.
For me cremation is not a strange solution - or the whole thing that a person is thinking his death and burial already at a young age. In the movie the worst thing about burial is John Twist's strong denial, the angry "no". "Tell you what, we got a family plot and he's goin' in it." Jack's ashes belonged to Brokeback Mountain!!!!
yes, I do find it a bit strange that Jack thought about his death even though he was relatively young. This is why I felt that he probably just expressed the wish for cremation out loud, and not formally in a will. On one hand, it is unusual for someone so young to make out a will, correct? On the other hand, perhaps taking on a family made him make one, in which he explicitly requested for cremation. But I think the latter case is more the exception than the rule -- even today.
I agree when thinking about Jack's character. It is hard to combine thoughts about death with young Jack - death seemed to be very far far away from his thoughts when he was boy and young man, and actually that kind of thoughts are not easy to connect even to older Jack. But when I recall Jack's and Ennis' last moment together, "all we got now is Brokeback", I can imagine him thinking of death and the wish of cremation.
Hmmm. Perhaps. But I would have liked to think that Jack treasured life dearly, and not even the Last Confrontation would have dampened his desire to live his life to the fullest.
The wish for cremation certainly is unexpected, given his temperament and the times and the society in which he lived.
I can see a conversation, casual and family in nature, where Lureen simply asked Jack about it, and he would reply that his favorite place is Brokeback Mountain, that's where he'd like to spend eternity. And Lureen would say that's an awfully long way away. To that Jack would reply, "Not if you have me cremated." So the conversation probably stuck in her mind when the occasion called for it.
I don't see Jack thinking about death and making out a will, either. However, Lureen being the methodical person who looks after every penny, would surely have done it to protect young Bobby. And she probably took care of all the detail for Jack. He probably had a life insurance policy, with Bobby as the beneficiary. As would Lureen.
Babe, Lureen thought that BBM was not real, that it was a place created by Jack's mind. ^f^ But I get what you're saying and I agree.
I agree with you here. I can't see Jack thinking about the death especially during FC. He was angry and resignated and disappointed in a way, but not willing to die. he wanted to live to the fullest. That's why we like him.
I also agree when you say that his wish to be cremated was not written and official. But surely was the result of his lifetime wish to go back to the place he loved the most - to Brokeback!
We can speculate that he maybe really had some reasonable fear that something was going to happen to him cos his life style. Who knows? He mentioned this to Ennis but in a deliberately changed circumstances - like Randall or Lureen were going to kill him cos having an affair with LeShawn! Did we already get the hint there? And because of that fear, he expressed his wish for cremation and to returning to Brokeback to Lureen? :s)
I don't see Jack thinking about death and making out a will, either. However, Lureen being the methodical person who looks after every penny, would surely have done it to protect young Bobby. And she probably took care of all the detail for Jack. He probably had a life insurance policy, with Bobby as the beneficiary. As would Lureen.
I can see a conversation, casual and family in nature, where Lureen simply asked Jack about it, and he would reply that his favorite place is Brokeback Mountain, that's where he'd like to spend eternity. And Lureen would say that's an awfully long way away. To that Jack would reply, "Not if you have me cremated." So the conversation probably stuck in her mind when the occasion called for it.
If she had anything to do with his death, ALL his ashes would be gone from Texas. She was a victim in a relationship that, like Princess Diana said, had one too many people in it. She couldn't fix it so she gotta stand it, the best she could. She couldn't part with all of him, so she kept the half of the ashes that she had. The tears that she shed in the phone conversation, could be also her realization that she should have sent all of it to Brokeback, because that's where his heart and soul was all these years.
Babe, Lureen thought that BBM was not real, that it was a place created by Jack's mind. ^f^ But I get what you're saying and I agree.
Also, in the BBM short story, Lureen's father, L.D., had died (sometime after Ennis' divorce). The death of a family member is usually a time when people start thinking about their own mortality and Jack and Lureen may have discussed their wishes then.
This is an interesting point that I've always wondered about, that Lureen thought Brokeback Mountain was just a pretend place where blue birds sing with a whiskey spring. Yet, she sent half of Jack's ashes out to his folks thinking they would know where it is. Then when Ennis mentioned they spent a summer tending sheep there, she got all choked up with tears, and almost hung up on Ennis. It's like she'd prefer to think it was a pretend place, instead of finding out her husband was happiest at the age of nineteen tending sheep with another man. It's almost as bad as finding the husband was happier with another woman, or is it?
What could Jack have said to her, about Brokeback Mountain, that it would have such an impact from a simple declaration from Ennis?
Well, it could have been for the sake of appearances. It would have been odd had she refused a part of him to stay in Texas. And it would have been suspicious. Nonetheless, her complicity in Jack's death remains a subject of pure speculation/interpretation. And there is no real proof for it, IMO.
OT: there was some discussion a long time ago as to whether the tears were genuine or rehearsed -- as in her giving the explanation of the death seemingly by rote.
Very good Lance!
Jack had probably gave a very clear point how he loved Brokeback mountain, but at the same time, he gave no concrete data, cos she didn't know where is it (or she just pretended no to know?). Also,she didn't know that it was Ennis with him up there on Brokeback. For her Ennis was his fishing buddy, nothing more.. well, until he said that he had tended sheep with Jack. At that moment things got pretty clear.
I think that for woman it is the same if her husband was more happy with another man or woman. Maybe it is even worse with a man, cos it's an unfamiliar area and she can't understand it.
I don't think that it would be odd to give all Jack's ashes to his parents if that was his wish, and that wouldn't be suspicious IMO.
Lureen was a cold person, but not emotionless. She really felt sorry for losing Jack. Ennis couldn't see her tears, so she didn't need to cry in front of a receiver.
This reminds me of Alma seeing them kissing at the foot of the stairs. This made a lot of sense of the tears, and her hanging up on Ennis.
I'd never given much thought to Lureen being a murderer, nor implicit in Jack's death. I always felt the tears were genuine, and now it makes a lot of sense. She was in the same place that Alma was in sixteen years earlier.
This is an interesting point that I've always wondered about, that Lureen thought Brokeback Mountain was just a pretend place where blue birds sing with a whiskey spring. Yet, she sent half of Jack's ashes out to his folks thinking they would know where it is. Then when Ennis mentioned they spent a summer tending sheep there, she got all choked up with tears, and almost hung up on Ennis. It's like she'd prefer to think it was a pretend place, instead of finding out her husband was happiest at the age of nineteen tending sheep with another man. It's almost as bad as finding the husband was happier with another woman, or is it?
What could Jack have said to her, about Brokeback Mountain, that it would have such an impact from a simple declaration from Ennis?
[...]
Lureen looked totally convinced that BBM was not real, and that’s why she starting to cry. She realized there and then that she really didn’t know Jack at all. Her husband had a favourite place, the one where he was the happiest, and she knew so little about the real Jack, about the dreamer, about the kind soul, that she thought that he was talking about a fantasy, maybe even a product of the whiskey. How much can it hurt if you suddenly find out that your husband was REALLY sharing important things with you, talking to you about his hopes and dreams and the places he loved the most, and you were so busy with work, or just so tired or bored with the marriage that you ignored it all and thought that it was only a pretended place? God, that must hurt and make you feel pretty stupid and blind and…guilty, guilty for not having listened to the man she loved, because Lureen never said a word to help Jack when her father was mean to him, she never gave him any credit, and I’m sure she felt bad about it; and then when Ennis told her that not, it was a real place, she must felt terribly bad because, again, she had not given Jack any credit and now she was smacked in the face with the truth that her husband was not a pissant enough drunk to talk about pretended paradises, but a honest man who was sharing with her a very important part of his heart and a big secret by telling her that Brokeback was the place he loved the most in the world.
I don't think that it would be odd to give all Jack's ashes to his parents if that was his wish, and that wouldn't be suspicious IMO.
Lureen was a cold person, but not emotionless. She really felt sorry for losing Jack. Ennis couldn't see her tears, so she didn't need to cry in front of a receiver.
Lureen looked totally convinced that BBM was not real, and that’s why she starting to cry. She realized there and then that she really didn’t know Jack at all.
I don't think it would have been the usual thing here in the USA, however. For a husband to be interred far from where his wife and son lived would have been quite strange. And it's not that Lureen didn't have or couldn't afford a burial plot closer to home. It would definitely have looked strange.
I never thought about that. You are right, Tammy. Those tears could have been her guilt, her regret. Brokeback Mountain has so many layers, it's never ending trying to understand all the different emotions in it.
:t)
BT, you amaze me each time I see how deep you are in this story. <^( <^( <^(
Really looooove your posts. Each time, I learn something new, and then I think- OMG this is so logical, how come I never got it before. %&)
:clap:
Thank you babe! :^^)
Hey, honey. You're SO sweet. Thank you!!! ^f^
It happens to me every time. I read brokies posts and I'm amazed at them and I can't stop wondering why I didn't see before what they so clearly see.
Still, this is only my opinion, babe, and I can be wrong, right? :^^)
OK, I admit! Have no idea about American customs. What I was thinking is that it shouldn't be strange if wife respected her husband's last wish even if it's out of the custom, especially cos she already followed his wish to be cremated... :s)
Well, that's true that an explicit wish would have been honored somehow. But I do think it was natural to keep some of the ashes with her, even as she dispatched the rest elsewhere.
A deceased friend of mine was of the same generation as Ennis and Jack. Although not in his will, he had mentioned to his lover his wish that his ashes be scattered in a certain palazzo in Venice. When they cremated him, they kept some of his ashes in a niche by the church he attended once in a while for social reasons (he didn't believe in God and would have hated being interred there, IMO). But the rest was secretly scattered in Venice. Cremation lends it self naturally to such a division, I guess. We can't distribute body parts in this way -- unless you were some Catholic saint, that is. ;)
OMG, no! Not the body parts, even there were some saints whose body parts were fought for... I don't like it. >:(
I am not fond of cremation myself and have no particular reasons. I like a cemetery with a lit candles and all, and gives me a certain peace. Therefore, I was very surprised by Lureen's words that Jack had expressed this wish. I thought that if his body somehow was still here, it would be different. But when you burn someone to the ashes... it is so definite, that I couldn't accept it. The funny thing is that the result would be the same either way (cremated or buried) , but the appearance isn't...IMO
Well, one can still have all that in the case of cremation -- the ashes would occupy a smaller space, to be sure. In the case of my father, we exhumed his remains in 2006, cremated it, and reinterred him in a new enclosed family chapel. Granted, it is now inside a church and not in a cemetery, but it is easier to visit him now...
The family chapel is inside the church? :s) I'm sure I got it worng..
Here, only saints and important persons can be buried inside the church. Otherwise it's always cemetery, a lot of people have also a family graves. In fact, we are a small country and only in our Capitol there's a crematories, and in my hometown a cemetery is growing daily.
Yes, the family chapel is inside a church. :) The catholic church nowadays forbids direct burials inside churches, but the ashes or bones of a person can be re-interred inside in a side chapel or crypt. But go to any old catholic churches everywhere and you see old tombs and monuments inside -- from a time when this was permitted -- and you even see people buried in the floors and in the walls.
But to go back to the original topic: I do think that for Jack or a part of him to be transported easily to BBM, cremation was very convenient.
Yes! That's for sure! Still, Lureen's words were so difficult for me to tolerate. Death sounds so final, and the cremation even more... as stupid as it sounds, that's how I feel. :(
To go back to the topic - do you think that Childress texas had a crematories then -1984?
OMG! Something similar had happened with my father's grave, and we found it out cos we moved him into another grave! The story isn't pleasant at all and the similarity is unbelievable. Even so, I still resent cremation, but surely I understand you completely!
Anyway, I don't expect the crematories in my hometown for a long time, so I have no worry and I have the "place"! ???
To go back to the topic - do you think that Childress texas had a crematories then -1984?
Loreen - Childress, TX is a small town (2000 population 6,778) in the Texas panhandle, but it is not in the wilderness. Childress is only a couple of hundred miles from two Texas cities, Dallas and Houston, that both have (and had in 1984) populations of over 1 Million residents.
In 1984, if Childress didn't have a crematorium, the local funeral home director would have known where/how to have a body cremated.
I think flooding is almost universal when the seals to the containers deteriorate. A rather unpleasant thing they don't say in the brochures...
I don't know if Childress had a crematorium back then. Currently, only one Funeral Home is listed online for Childress:
Johnson Funeral Home
307 Ave C Nw
Childress
Texas 79201
Phone: (940) 937-3646
http://www.johnsonfunerals.net/index.cfm
They have been in business since 1983 and offer cremation. But did they have that option in 1983? And perhaps there were other Funeral Homes then that are no longer in business?
Worse case: they could have had the cremation done out of town -- Amarillo or Lubbock, perhaps -- where they might have had cremation services available.
Thanks!
So Jack's body was transported far away to be cremated. :(
Even after so much trouble, the aim wasn't accomplished! He didn't have the opportunity to reach Brokeback mountain again! :\'(
Well, possibly not too far away -- to a nearby towwn or city that had one... After all, the return trip would have been easier, with less bulky remains to deal with...
%&) Yes! I thought about that too....
Really hate the idea of my Jack turned into ashes! :(
I hate much more the idea of my Jack turned into rotten meat with worms ˇ As a matter of fact,I love cremation-besides of being the way I have chosen for myself when the moment arrives-in this case,because it was the only way Jack could come back to Brokeback to be happy there forever.
As for Jack - I agree, but still due to the circumstances he didn't manage to reach his favorite place on Earth and after his death, that is the second awful thing about his destiny. I hate him become an ashes for nothing. :\'(
Uh, PBS is approaching! :i
Despite what you and I believe is right or wrong about cremation, this is not the matter of this thread by the way, obviously Jack wanted to be cremated because ashes are easier to carry than a corpse and the last time I verified, there is no cemetery on Brokeback Mountain (sorry, no intention to be sarcastic) but he obviously (for me) didn't want to be buried in the Twist's family plot. Keep in mind there is a big distance to travel by the road from Texas up to Wyoming. Jack just wanted his ashes being scattered where his one and only love happened to begin and because of the meaning of it for him and Ennis, my two cents.
Off to cry a bit, where are the tissues?
Besides what man at age 40 already knows he wants to be cremated and has told everyone else his wishes as well?
I always found that a bit strange myself. But after reading TPE's response maybe it was a convienient way for Lureen to handle the situation. After all he WAS beaten pretty severely. Maybe that was the only option. Besides what man at age 40 already knows he wants to be cremated and has told everyone else his wishes as well?
I keep saying that it's not weird. I'm 30 and I said to my family several years ago that I want to be cremated. This world is dangerous and life is unpredictable, you don't know if are gonna live till you are 100 or if you are gonna die tomorrow, so I think that it's normal that you want to share with your family what you want them to do with your body after you death. Lots of people do that even if they are so young.I agree with Tammy in this,Godfather; you don't need to be old to think about how you want to leave everything when you die,for oneself and for one's family too.As a matter of fact,Jack knew the level of homophobia that was in his environment; how couldn't we say that maybe he had thought about the dangers he was overcoming with his too open,for that moment and place,way of living his homosexuality?.Letting apart the fact that he,simply,wanted to let everything solved to avoid problems to his family,including even a will for his son.
Despite what you and I believe is right or wrong about cremation, this is not the matter of this thread by the way, obviously Jack wanted to be cremated because ashes are easier to carry than a corpse and the last time I verified, there is no cemetery on Brokeback Mountain (sorry, no intention to be sarcastic) but he obviously (for me) didn't want to be buried in the Twist's family plot. Keep in mind there is a big distance to travel by the road from Texas up to Wyoming. Jack just wanted his ashes being scattered where his one and only love happened to begin and because of the meaning of it for him and Ennis, my two cents.
Off to cry a bit, where are the tissues?