Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: Rønnaug on May 12, 2006, 02:37 AM
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THe more I see Brokeback the more little snippets of Ennis expressing his love for Jack become clear to me...
THe one I wanna start this thread on is the scene between Alma and Ennis in the kithcen at thanksgiving... I think for Ennis to physically abuse Alma, and threaten to make both her and monroe eat the floor, cause she calls Jack Jack Nasty, is pretty close to an I LOVE HIM... IMO he might as well have sayd don't you dare insult the man I love..
What do you think?
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Yep, thats definitely one, Esme.
Here's a few of mine:
1. The whole way through the motel scene, every time Jack says something even vaguely romantic, Ennis strokes his arm. He doesn't have the words to say what he feels, but he shows it.
2. "Sending up a prayer of thanks" - we know what for, Jack knows what for, but Ennis can't say it so he makes a joke then winks and smiles to show what he's really thinking.
3. "Ain't no reins on this one" - close as he ever comes to telling Jack he loves him, by telling him that he knows this thing can't be controlled, that it's beyond that.
4. The smile on his face when he arrives at the mountain (the "blue parka" meeting!) - his whole face lights up when he sees Jack is already there.
There's loads more I can think of, but that's a start.
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The moment Jack told Ennis, that Aguirre wants them to go down from the mountain - Ennis got angry, I think not because of the money - he just didn' t want to leave Jack and back to the "normal" life. He punched Jack, because he didn' t know how to tell him "don't leave me, I' ll miss you..."
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My favorite: when Ennis is shown with arms wrapped around Jack while sleeping on the last night of their last meeting.
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This face just before the reunion scene...
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fun-decided.com%2Fgallery%2Fdata%2Fmedia%2F2%2Fbbm0817.jpg&hash=fa039143207493bbc43b4f4b252e4d5ea4979583)
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This face just before the reunion scene...
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fun-decided.com%2Fgallery%2Fdata%2Fmedia%2F2%2Fbbm0817.jpg&hash=fa039143207493bbc43b4f4b252e4d5ea4979583)
Oh yeah - his eyes light up like all his Christmasses have just come at once. So much love in one tiny little half smile. Gorgeous.
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How does Ennis express his love for Jack? Let us count the ways . . . Up on BBM Ennis:
1. Offers to switch jobs with Jack;
2. Kills the elk although Ennis is happy to stick with beans;
3. Cooks the meat for him just right (scene after they've killed the elk and Ennis has the salt shaker);
4. Surrenders to Jack SNIT;
5. Collapses to his knees in the dry heaves and in tears after they depart BBM.
Down from BBM, Ennis, at the Reunion, runs down the steps to meet Jack and plants THE kiss on him; quits jobs to be with Jack and doesn't get a better job (like the electric company) so he can up and go with Jack at any time; foresakes vacations and time with his family to be with Jack; Gives up on Cassie because he realizes he loves Jack; and tells Jack he's "like this" because of Jack. Seems like he's telling Jack that Jack has ultimate control over his heart and even his life. Ennis may not be much of a talker but he sure gets his point across! ;)
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This face just before the reunion scene...
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fun-decided.com%2Fgallery%2Fdata%2Fmedia%2F2%2Fbbm0817.jpg&hash=fa039143207493bbc43b4f4b252e4d5ea4979583)
I love that whole scene so much, when he's looking out the window all nervous, playing with his lighter, wondering when, or if, Jack's going to turn up, it's just so sweet, and it's the sort of feeling that everyone can relate to, of being all excited about a hot date, then getting nervous in case he doesn't show.
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Seems like he's telling Jack that Jack has ultimate control over his heart and even his life. Ennis may not be much of a talker but he sure gets his point across! ;)
To see you again
lost the language
lost myself
lost the way of my life
waiting for you in the sunny noon
silence is love
love is silence[/b]
(Jasper Vikas George )
Loved your post, thank you!
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It's probably the most obvious one, but the most beautiful one too:
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi7.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy279%2Fgunnergirl%2FBBMde.jpg&hash=afe70863c8b7ff9fe0a9d92a744a7b78b946e815)
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It's probably the most obvious one, but the most beautiful one too:
*agrees*
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Also some very obvious ones:
-goes off with Jack, first to the motel and then camping, even though he can tell Alma is upset
-[paraphrase] "Sometimes I just can't stand it anymore" the last time they see one another :(
-"I can't tell you how bad I feel" when at the Twists' house
-Smelling the two shirts
-"Jack, I swear"
*runs off to watch the DVD again*
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Bringing beans to the "blue parka" meeting and offering to "fix 'em up just the way he used to" (even though you can hardly hear that dialogue in the movie)
Aw, bless him....he really was a romantic at heart :D
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The reunion kiss and the flashback are my favorite scenes in which Ennis expresses his love.
In addition to killing the elk he also ordered the soup for Jack even though he doesn't eat it.
from the short story- "Little darlin'"
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This face just before the reunion scene...
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fun-decided.com%2Fgallery%2Fdata%2Fmedia%2F2%2Fbbm0817.jpg&hash=fa039143207493bbc43b4f4b252e4d5ea4979583)
Yes and all the time he is waiting before that shot... we feel his nervousness.
Afterwards, THAT kiss, Jack just can't believe it. The look on Ennis face and the face rub a the end of the kiss when he whispers ''later'' to Jack :-\
And of course:
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh137%2Fchameau_7%2FPDVD_112_jpg.jpg&hash=ee9877d63c26d8d151d69b3cd96017ff146ef27c)
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here are a few from memory :)
The renion scene before when he is waiting and when they meet up again
the flashback scene when he comes up behind Jack and hugs him from behind
the hotel scene when they are lying in bed all relaxed and cuddly after they had some fun ;)
when he takes the shirts home with him from Jack's room and touches and holds the shirts close to his heart :'( :'(
the second tent scene when he comes to Jack ;)
the first tent scene and giving into his true passions :o
and Ennis saying Jack I swear at the end of the movie
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Bringing beans to the "blue parka" meeting and offering to "fix 'em up just the way he used to" (even though you can hardly hear that dialogue in the movie)
Aw, bless him....he really was a romantic at heart :D
I never realized this is what Ennis says here. I thought he was talking about bringing the horses--thanks for the insight!
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What can I add? you've said it all...
Esme, that was a great observation about his reaction in the kitchen scene with Alma, I loved your interpretation. Also notice the way he's breathing heavily and trembling just before he grabs her arm. He's desperately trying to control himself until he loses it.
The most striking manifestation of love on his part: SNIT, the reunion scene and the flashback.
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Bringing beans to the "blue parka" meeting and offering to "fix 'em up just the way he used to" (even though you can hardly hear that dialogue in the movie)
Aw, bless him....he really was a romantic at heart :D
I never realized this is what Ennis says here. I thought he was talking about bringing the horses--thanks for the insight!
Ach, don't thank me - thank the folk who put the Story to Screenplay book together. It's all in there!
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There's a little touch Ennis uses, since touch is rare from him it's sweet -
SNIT, after he and Jack lay back, he reaches up to touch Jack's face and sweeps his thumb across Jack's eyebrow; I notice he makes the same little gesture in the reunion kiss once he's got him against the wall .. you almost miss it except in slo' mo.
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There's a little touch Ennis uses, since touch is rare from him it's sweet -
SNIT, after he and Jack lay back, he reaches up to touch Jack's face and sweeps his thumb across Jack's eyebrow; I notice he makes the same little gesture in the reunion kiss once he's got him against the wall .. you almost miss it except in slo' mo.
One more good reason to slo mo that scene! I never noticed that.
In the SS when he tells Jack about puking in the alley and he figured out it was that he should have never let Jack out of his sights.
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There's a little touch Ennis uses, since touch is rare from him it's sweet -
SNIT, after he and Jack lay back, he reaches up to touch Jack's face and sweeps his thumb across Jack's eyebrow; I notice he makes the same little gesture in the reunion kiss once he's got him against the wall .. you almost miss it except in slo' mo.
One more good reason to slo mo that scene! I never noticed that.
In the SS when he tells Jack about puking in the alley and he figured out it was that he should have never let Jack out of his sights.
If we're straying into the short story here then how about when he tells Jack "I like doin' it with women, yeah, but, Jesus H, ain't nothin' like this. I never had no thoughts a doin' it with another guy but I sure wrang it out a hunderd times thinkin' 'bout you" - that's way closer to saying "I love you" than "movie Ennis" ever gets
I noticed the eyebrow thing - very sexy ;D There's another one, too - he strokes Jack's ears during the reunion kiss...
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I noticed another one when I was watching earlier:
When he's checking the tent, and saying it "don't look right", even though he's not even going to be sleeping in the tent (well, he is, but he doesn't know it yet, he just wants to make sure Jack's comfortable and safe in there :)
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The tentative way he enters Jack's room, as if he's afraid he's intruding, then the way he touches the thoings there, looks out of the window, as though trying to absorb the essence of Jack, understand the things that came together to make Jack what he was, then strokes Jack's clothes as if they were something he hardly dares to touch, and approaches the shirts almost as one would a holy relic. This isn't anything other than the purest form of love, the need to identify with and become a part of the beloved.
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...then strokes Jack's clothes as if they were something he hardly dares to touch...
This is a wonderful observation. You do get the impression that he is almost tentative in his caresses here...
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The tentative way he enters Jack's room, as if he's afraid he's intruding, then the way he touches the thoings there, looks out of the window, as though trying to absorb the essence of Jack, understand the things that came together to make Jack what he was, then strokes Jack's clothes as if they were something he hardly dares to touch, and approaches the shirts almost as one would a holy relic. This isn't anything other than the purest form of love, the need to identify with and become a part of the beloved.
That was beautiful! :'(
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"I figured you was sore from that punch" "And the army didn't get you?" Ennis remembers every moment of their last day together as if it was yesterday, he's spent the last four years replaying it over and over in his mind, wishing he'd said or done things differently, wondering what might have been if he had. Not knowing if Jack was even alive or dead, he could have been got by the army and send off to die in some war somewhere :(
It's been said in another thread about Jack opening his heart to Ennis in that scene, red lining it all the way, etc, and all he gets in return from Ennis is "Me? Ahdunno...", and that's true to a degree, but Ennis's answer is in his questions, if you see what I mean ;)
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In French we use to say "une image vaut mille mots"
Which means a picture is worth one thousand words...
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh137%2Fchameau_7%2Fbbm0834.jpg&hash=6e5758c1d0c16cece27b374e9fb75961f1b7aa26)
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"I figured you was sore from that punch" "And the army didn't get you?" Ennis remembers every moment of their last day together as if it was yesterday, he's spent the last four years replaying it over and over in his mind, wishing he'd said or done things differently, wondering what might have been if he had. Not knowing if Jack was even alive or dead, he could have been got by the army and send off to die in some war somewhere :(
It's been said in another thread about Jack opening his heart to Ennis in that scene, red lining it all the way, etc, and all he gets in return from Ennis is "Me? Ahdunno...", and that's true to a degree, but Ennis's answer is in his questions, if you see what I mean ;)
I know exactly what you mean CrimsonSky - Ennis has held onto the memories of that summer, probably thinking he would never see Jack again, and when he's lying in Jack's arms in the motel that's what comes rushing back to him when Jack is opening his heart.
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In French we use to say "une image vaut mille mots"
Which means a picture is worth one thousand words...
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh137%2Fchameau_7%2Fbbm0834.jpg&hash=6e5758c1d0c16cece27b374e9fb75961f1b7aa26)
This world can end. That kiss endures.
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Just wondering tho.... was that kiss love? or lust? or jst because he knew by then he didnt love Alma? I think it was love...just wondering :)
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Just wondering tho.... was that kiss love? or lust? or jst because he knew by then he didnt love Alma? I think it was love...just wondering :)
How about lust born out of love - the realisation of which had taken four years?
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Just wondering tho.... was that kiss love? or lust? or jst because he knew by then he didnt love Alma? I think it was love...just wondering :)
I think it is love. Eros is intrinsically part of this love, nonetheless.
In that pic, the kiss almost appears PAINFUL. An excess of love, repressed for so long, is exceedingly painful...
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Just wondering tho.... was that kiss love? or lust? or jst because he knew by then he didn't love Alma? I think it was love...just wondering :)
Esme, that was not lust at all if that was lust then he would have never do the nuzzle to jack, he did it in a so romantic way that one can think that he didn't wanted to stop kissing jack.
Ennis showed Jack his love, on my point of view, in many ways switching with him to be the herder, shooting the elk, talking with him (yes talking if you notices he says that he didn't spoke more than that in a year so he opened himself with jack) when talked with Jack about the one shot thing, the SNIT (no explanations there) his morning games, his fight in which he was actually showing the anger of loosing him. the reunion kiss, his low paid job that he selected to quit them to be wtih jack and in all of their meetings and to some of you would sound weird but how he pushed him away, yes to me he was showing his love not in a very good way but he was trying to protect jack from being killed he was scared of loosing him so he did what he did.
Ennis love is actually showed in a non verbal language he expressed it physically and emotionally, no words were needed for him he just showed Jack his love with his actions but sometimes his actions were missinterpreted
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Just wondering tho.... was that kiss love? or lust? or jst because he knew by then he didn't love Alma? I think it was love...just wondering :)
Esme, that was not lust at all if that was lust then he would have never do the nuzzle to jack, he did it in a so romantic way that one can think that he didn't wanted to stop kissing jack.
Ennis showed Jack his love, on my point of view, in many ways switching with him to be the herder, shooting the elk, talking with him (yes talking if you notices he says that he didn't spoke more than that in a year so he opened himself with jack) when talked with Jack about the one shot thing, the SNIT (no explanations there) his morning games, his fight in which he was actually showing the anger of loosing him. the reunion kiss, his low paid job that he selected to quit them to be wtih jack and in all of their meetings and to some of you would sound weird but how he pushed him away, yes to me he was showing his love not in a very good way but he was trying to protect jack from being killed he was scared of loosing him so he did what he did.
Ennis love is actually showed in a non verbal language he expressed it physically and emotionally, no words were needed for him he just showed Jack his love with his actions but sometimes his actions were missinterpreted
Very well said Carlos, I could only agree
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Carlos that was a beautiful post. you have great observations.
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Just wondering tho.... was that kiss love? or lust? or jst because he knew by then he didnt love Alma? I think it was love...just wondering :)
I think it is love. Eros is intrinsically part of this love, nonetheless.
In that pic, the kiss almost appears PAINFUL. An excess of love, repressed for so long, is exceedingly painful...
Lust or love.... I have almost a reverse interpretation, although it may seem odd to some. (I've mentioned this elsewhere, sorry if it's a repeat for you.)
I think the kiss may have been a (very intense, very unusual) expression of friendship. And this is not to deny the sexual aspect ("eros" in Greek) of J and E's love. But their love also was a very deep, very strong friendship ("fileo" in Greek). Both Jack and Ennis had had very bad relationships with men in the past. Ennis's dad "forsook" him by dying; his older brother just beat on him and then pushed him out. Jack's dad is an abusive piece of sh*t; read the end of the short story for details. Likewise Jack has a bad relationship with his father-in-law. The strong male-male friendship that shapes most boy's/men's lives was missing for both of these guys, until they found each other.
I happen to believe that both men loved their wives, so they got at least some of the Eros they needed elsewhere. But the friendship (notice how often they call each other "friend" or "buddy") they shared was very, very deep and it seems they had no other friends (until Jack finds Randall, perhaps).
And this ties in to what tpe says about the kiss being painful. They certainly didn't intend to start kissing there on the street, on the stairs. It was going to be a very strong, very intense hug, but a hug couldn't express all they felt. As AP puts it in the short story, their mouths just came together "like a key finds a lock." Then the Eros takes over, which is a painful transition. Painful because, for both of them, they didn't really plan on it.
Coulda written this better, ahdunno.
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Lust or love.... I have almost a reverse interpretation, although it may seem odd to some. (I've mentioned this elsewhere, sorry if it's a repeat for you.)
I think the kiss may have been a (very intense, very unusual) expression of friendship. And this is not to deny the sexual aspect ("eros" in Greek) of J and E's love. But their love also was a very deep, very strong friendship ("fileo" in Greek). Both Jack and Ennis had had very bad relationships with men in the past. Ennis's dad "forsook" him by dying; his older brother just beat on him and then pushed him out. Jack's dad is an abusive piece of sh*t; read the end of the short story for details. Likewise Jack has a bad relationship with his father-in-law. The strong male-male friendship that shapes most boy's/men's lives was missing for both of these guys, until they found each other.
I happen to believe that both men loved their wives, so they got at least some of the Eros they needed elsewhere. But the friendship (notice how often they call each other "friend" or "buddy") they shared was very, very deep and it seems they had no other friends (until Jack finds Randall, perhaps).
And this ties in to what tpe says about the kiss being painful. They certainly didn't intend to start kissing there on the street, on the stairs. It was going to be a very strong, very intense hug, but a hug couldn't express all they felt. As AP puts it in the short story, their mouths just came together "like a key finds a lock." Then the Eros takes over, which is a painful transition. Painful because, for both of them, they didn't really plan on it.
Coulda written this better, ahdunno.
I am simply amazed at how much this kiss draws out from each of us.
In a way, I find this kiss so intense that I can agree to calling it an expression of deep friendship coming -- involuntarily -- from two people with one soul.
After all, the deepest friendship -- that which entails the giving of one's life for a friend -- is, in many ways, the highest calling.
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Lust or love.... I have almost a reverse interpretation, although it may seem odd to some. (I've mentioned this elsewhere, sorry if it's a repeat for you.)
I think the kiss may have been a (very intense, very unusual) expression of friendship. And this is not to deny the sexual aspect ("eros" in Greek) of J and E's love. But their love also was a very deep, very strong friendship ("fileo" in Greek). snip ...
....
And this ties in to what tpe says about the kiss being painful. They certainly didn't intend to start kissing there on the street, on the stairs. It was going to be a very strong, very intense hug, but a hug couldn't express all they felt. As AP puts it in the short story, their mouths just came together "like a key finds a lock." Then the Eros takes over, which is a painful transition. Painful because, for both of them, they didn't really plan on it.
Coulda written this better, ahdunno. (written just fine, Edgar!)
I am simply amazed at how much this kiss draws out from each of us.
In a way, I find this kiss so intense that I can agree to calling it an expression of deep friendship coming -- involuntarily -- from two people with one soul.
After all, the deepest friendship -- that which entails the giving of one's life for a friend -- is, in many ways, the highest calling.
What an intriguing concept, and so elegantly expressed by both of you, Edgar and Thomas!
And oddly enough, your reflections tie in perfectly to a comment from Jake Gyllenhaal, made during the Toronto Film Festival press conference. He has taken some backlash here and there , as you know, for his assertion that Jack and Ennis had a great friendship for one another, although he never once denies the intense physical desire or that this is a homosexual love story. But it's uncanny how well his words that day fit the idea you're both presenting here today.
He said "the different between a best friend and a soul mate is the consummation of the relationship". By entering into a physical relation, first on Brokeback and later when they reunite, they indeed step across the boundaries of friendship alone, into a lovers world shared by soul mates - "two people with one soul" as you expressed so well, Thomas!
Suddenly, after reading your beautiful posts, Mr. JG's comment takes on a much deeper meaning, and not one necessarily out of context of the story. Ennis, rarely able to express himself in terms of the true erotic side of his nature, often finds ways to show his love to Jack through the bonds of that friendship when the ways of lovers fail him.
The reunion kiss is probably my favourite moment of Ennis expressing his feelings for Jack, because it is so spontaneous and passionate. But now, all the sweet moments of teasing and horseplay suddenly have a whole other dimension also. An interesting layer to add to the richness of their story. Another excuse to look at the film through fresh eyes! Many thanks. :)
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Gosh, your posts are so beautiful. They made me totally wordless and I'm not able to add anything anymore now.
I wonder why these kind of posts make me cry like a baby.. :'(
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What an intriguing concept, and so elegantly expressed by both of you, Edgar and Thomas!
And oddly enough, your reflections tie in perfectly to a comment from Jake Gyllenhaal, made during the Toronto Film Festival press conference. He has taken some backlash here and there , as you know, for his assertion that Jack and Ennis had a great friendship for one another, although he never once denies the intense physical desire or that this is a homosexual love story. But it's uncanny how well his words that day fit the idea you're both presenting here today.
He said "the different between a best friend and a soul mate is the consummation of the relationship". By entering into a physical relation, first on Brokeback and later when they reunite, they indeed step across the boundaries of friendship alone, into a lovers world shared by soul mates - "two people with one soul" as you expressed so well, Thomas!
Suddenly, after reading your beautiful posts, Mr. JG's comment takes on a much deeper meaning, and not one necessarily out of context of the story. Ennis, rarely able to express himself in terms of the true erotic side of his nature, often finds ways to show his love to Jack through the bonds of that friendship when the ways of lovers fail him.
The reunion kiss is probably my favourite moment of Ennis expressing his feelings for Jack, because it is so spontaneous and passionate. But now, all the sweet moments of teasing and horseplay suddenly have a whole other dimension also. An interesting layer to add to the richness of their story. Another excuse to look at the film through fresh eyes! Many thanks. :)
Beautiful, MississaugaRed. Your tying all this into Jake Gyllenhaal's 'controversial' comments is something I was not consciously aware of when I wrote the post, although I now realize that I had already most likely internalized Jake's view somehow and was just echoing it unconsciously here, in response to Edgar's post.
The kiss is very frightening in its intensity. You feel that Ennis is ready to consume Jack body and soul. And then you at last realize that Ennis could not help himself. He and Jack were helpless in the face of their feelings for each other.
And yet, they have always addressed each other as friends -- perhaps in the truest and deepest sense that each of them intrinsically understood. Did they sense a discrepancy here between their addressing themselves as friends and the emotional love they have for each other?
I think not. In the presence of each other, they felt complete. True friendship can do that. It does not matter if sexual desire is there or not.
That kiss probably surprised Ennis most of all.
And yet is fell so naturally into place.
It was God-given.
I was impossible to deny.
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Beautiful words as always, tpe, you bring poetry to these images. :'(
I guess in a sense every moment that Ennis spends with Jack once they have begun their physical relationship is an expression of his love, as he does so in defiance of a childhood-scarred psyche.
That he could take that first step beyond friendship at all speaks to the undeniable power of his feelings. Then to fix his feet on this path for 20 years, regardless of the nightmares haunting him, well, I have to think there was love in every halting step, wasn't there??
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Beautiful words as always, tpe, you bring poetry to these images. :'(
I guess in a sense every moment that Ennis spends with Jack once they have begun their physical relationship is an expression of his love, as he does so in defiance of a childhood-scarred psyche.
That he could take that first step beyond friendship at all speaks to the undeniable power of his feelings. Then to fix his feet on this path for 20 years, regardless of the nightmares haunting him, well, I have to think there was love in every halting step, wasn't there??
I think Ennis loved Jack from the very beginning. He never wavered in his love, even if he thought that keeping both of them apart was for the best for each of them.
Ennis's love was never in question. He tried to grapple with how to make that love survive in a hostile world. The tragedy was that his desire to make it survive proved his undoing...
Love can do this...
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Beautiful posts Carlos, Edgar, TPE and Miss-Red!
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The greatest love may well involve the comprehension of both eros, which they certainly had, and agape, the Greek word for self-sacrificing love, the sort of love Christ has for his church, and that I see far less in Jack than in Ennis, who sacrificed everything but kept his love without compromise, faithful unto death, and even beyond. He didn't need words.
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The greatest love may well involve the comprehension of both eros, which they certainly had, and agape, the Greek word for self-sacrificing love, the sort of love Christ has for his church, and that I see far less in Jack than in Ennis, who sacrificed everything but kept his love without compromise, faithful unto death, and even beyond. He didn't need words.
But agape is to give one's life for a friend.
By dying for his dream, Jack fulfilled it in full.
By Jack's dying, Ennis came to the realization of that love.
No greater love there is than...
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:'( :'( :'( :'(
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Ennis loved.
He loved his father, which made the father's terrible act of showing Earl (?) to Ennis all the more traumatic.
Ennis loved Alma, just not enough. He defended her to Jack.
Ennis loved his children. He would not even think of moving to Texas away from his children--a stand I respect very much; and I don't think Ennis gets enough credit for this. He also, it seems, makes all his child support payments, allowing the kids to live in that "nice" home we see at Thanksgiving. Also, if he did not make the payments, he would have been arrested. He sniffs Jr's sweater as he's putting it away to keep her presence near him. And he's going to make time to be at her wedding, because he realizes how badly she wants him to be there.
Ennis loved Jack. He would not have thought about it with these words, but he loved Jack. He did not--could not, at least at times--express it well, cetainly not with words. But his body expressed (maybe unwillingly expressed) his love--the dozy hug, the wink, the reunion kiss and nuzzle, stroking Jack's arm in the the motel. The dry heaves. Even the fight.
Sniffing the shirts. Hugging the shirts.
He still can't find the common words... just, "Jack, I swear..."
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What a beautiful post Edgar. Thank you.
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Ennis loved Jack. He would not have thought about it with these words, but he loved Jack. He did not--could not, at least at times--express it well, cetainly not with words. But his body expressed (maybe unwillingly expressed) his love--the dozy hug, the wink, the reunion kiss and nuzzle, stroking Jack's arm in the the motel. The dry heaves. Even the fight.
Ennis may have been repressed, but there was never a doubt that he was a man who loved deeply.
His actions were never in doubt. From the small things he did for Jack up in BBM to the reunion kiss and to that embrace on the final night together, Ennis expressed his love for Jack in nu uncertain terms.
And Ennis knew that Jack KNEW that Ennis loved him. They understood each other. Neither of them needed to say the word 'love'. They lived that word in their hearts for as long as they lived.
We must all remember and keep close to our hearts this one truth: that both were able to show their love for each other because the other made it possible. Ennis, for all his stoicism and fear, never denied his deep love for Jack. He just couldn't. It was not possible.
Ennis may have brushed aside Jack's embrace on that visit after the divorce. Did it lessen Ennis's love for Jack? Ennis constantly refused to live the dream of a shared life. Did that cheapen his love for Jack?
No.
Perhaps the greatest testament to Ennis's love was the fact that he resisted the dream of a shared life. Given his childhood experience, his loneliness, his fear, the only way he knew how to protect that love from being destroyed by a hostile world was to set it apart, up in the pristine beauty and isolation of the mountains.
Jack probably understood this. But it hurt him that Ennis could never be his openly. Jack's vision was to love Ennis openly even if it meant death. But his frustration and hurt never cast a doubt on his belief in Ennis's love for him.
Had Jack been asked this question, what would he have answered? In my opinion, it could be this: 'I feel Ennis's love for me in the memory of his every look, his every letter, his every glance, his every thought, his every breath, his every silence. So long as Ennis lives, I know that he loves me.'
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Had Jack been asked this question, what would he have answered? In my opinion, it could be this: 'I feel Ennis's love for me in the memory of his every look, his every letter, his every glance, his every thought, his every breath, his every silence. So long as Ennis lives, I know that he loves me.'
tpe that's heartbreaking and uplifting at the same time. You've hit the nail on the head again.
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Had Jack been asked this question, what would he have answered? In my opinion, it could be this: 'I feel Ennis's love for me in the memory of his every look, his every letter, his every glance, his every thought, his every breath, his every silence. So long as Ennis lives, I know that he loves me.'
tpe that's heartbreaking and uplifting at the same time. You've hit the nail on the head again.
NoReins. I know we all connect with their love for each other. It is so strong that when we envision one, we cannot help but see the other. Ennis is the embodiment of our love for Jack, as Jack is the corporeal element of our love for Ennis.
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Wow- wonderful posts Edgar and TPE.
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Wow- wonderful posts Edgar and TPE.
Thanks LuvJackNasty.
These threads about Ennis's love for Jack and Jack's love for Ennis: they are so beautiful.
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I think Ennis loved Jack from the very beginning. He never wavered in his love, even if he thought that keeping both of them apart was for the best for each of them.
Ennis's love was never in question. He tried to grapple with how to make that love survive in a hostile world. The tragedy was that his desire to make it survive proved his undoing...
Love can do this...
Concerning the great love of Ennis, I have always wondered what were the profound reasons of his refusal for the sweet life proposal, was it because he wanted to protect Jack from homophobic violence or was it because of his own homophobic tendencies? Heath said once in an interview that Ennis was an homophobic man who fall in love with a man. I have already asked this question in another thread, and according to Lancecowboy it's because Ennis had homophobic tendencies and his fear of ending up like Earl that he refused the sweet life. As a matter of fact, and because I am an incurable romantic I would love to agree with you, that Ennis only wanted to protect Jack against homophobic violence, because he was deeply in love with him, but we are obliged to consider the opinion of Heath... :)
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Ennis may have been repressed, but there was never a doubt that he was a man who loved deeply.
His actions were never in doubt. From the small things he did for Jack up in BBM to the reunion kiss and to that embrace on the final night together, Ennis expressed his love for Jack in nu uncertain terms.
And Ennis knew that Jack KNEW that Ennis loved him. They understood each other. Neither of them needed to say the word 'love'. They lived that word in their hearts for as long as they lived.
We must all remember and keep close to our hearts this one truth: that both were able to show their love for each other because the other made it possible. Ennis, for all his stoicism and fear, never denied his deep love for Jack. He just couldn't. It was not possible.
Ennis may have brushed aside Jack's embrace on that visit after the divorce. Did it lessen Ennis's love for Jack? Ennis constantly refused to live the dream of a shared life. Did that cheapen his love for Jack?
No.
Perhaps the greatest testament to Ennis's love was the fact that he resisted the dream of a shared life. Given his childhood experience, his loneliness, his fear, the only way he knew how to protect that love from being destroyed by a hostile world was to set it apart, up in the pristine beauty and isolation of the mountains.
Jack probably understood this. But it hurt him that Ennis could never be his openly. Jack's vision was to love Ennis openly even if it meant death. But his frustration and hurt never cast a doubt on his belief in Ennis's love for him.
Had Jack been asked this question, what would he have answered? In my opinion, it could be this: 'I feel Ennis's love for me in the memory of his every look, his every letter, his every glance, his every thought, his every breath, his every silence. So long as Ennis lives, I know that he loves me.'
I love this old post of you, but then again I wonder why Lancecowboy said that it was more from Ennis selfish fear of ending up like Earl than his wish to protect Jack from violence.
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I love this old post of you, but then again I wonder why Lancecowboy said that it was more from Ennis selfish fear of ending up like Earl than his wish to protect Jack from violence.
You make me think again of our old friend, Edgar. I do miss him from the old days...
I think that for some of us here, the hint given by AP about seeing an old lonely cowboy (and seeing him as Ennis in her mind's eye) points more to a fear of being alone above anything else. I am not denying that Ennis saw and did not relish the possibility of such a fate. But I do think that what was first and foremost in his mind was the fear that those whom he loved would end up in a similar fashion. This is just my opinion, of course, but over the years, it has remained that way, and I don't see this changing any time soon...
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You make me think again of our old friend, Edgar. I do miss him from the old days...
I think that for some of us here, the hint given by AP about seeing an old lonely cowboy (and seeing him as Ennis in her mind's eye) points more to a fear of being alone above anything else. I am not denying that Ennis saw and did not relish the possibility of such a fate. But I do think that what was first and foremost in his mind was the fear that those whom he loved would end up in a similar fashion. This is just my opinion, of course, but over the years, it has remained that way, and I don't see this changing any time soon...
So many Brokies, (well less now than 6 years ago helas), so many different opinion! Many Brokies said that the ss of Annie Proulx, was more a story about homophobia than a love story, however she never mentioned explicitly that Ennis had homophobic tendencies, I only understand that is father was an homophobic. I love when you say: that the greatest testament to Ennis's love was the fact that he resisted the dream of a shared life, given his childhood experience, his loneliness, his fear, the only way he knew how to protect that love from being destroyed by a hostile world was to set it apart, up in the pristine beauty and isolation of the mountains. However, what Ennis thought was safe for both of them, living apart, was at the end the worst option, he didn't see that keeping Jack close to him would have been beter for his protection, because at the end they could have fight together, and beter fight together and maybe fall together than completely alone. Thank you tpe for answering my question! :)
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Thnaks also! I think it is sign of great Art that such a work, written with so much restarint and economy of means, could inspire so many emotions and so many POVs. This is great Art as it should be: that it connects with so many peoples coming from such diverse backgrounds, on account of its universality with respect to the human experience.
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Thnaks also! I think it is sign of great Art that such a work, written with so much restarint and economy of means, could inspire so many emotions and so many POVs. This is great Art as it should be: that it connects with so many peoples coming from such diverse backgrounds, on account of its universality with respect to the human experience.
Exactly,Tpe ¡ Any piece of art (or better said,any masterpiece) distinguish itself from the average works in that it's able to awake many emotions and inspire many and different PO Vs in us; and also it makes us think scenes,reactions,way of beings over,discovering new shades,metaphors,reasons for a behaviour,etc every time we watch it.Bearing in mind this definition,BBM is a masterpiece that has made so many people from many different cultures and ages react,decide,suffer,identify themselves,or simply (simply?) feeling themselves alive.
In this sense,I'd say that any opinion about Ennis reason for rejecting this sweet life with Jack is logical,IMO; a sage combination of his fear of loosing the only person who understood him well and whom he loved the most with the fact that he wasn't prepared psychologically to see himself living with another man and maybe finish like Earl and Rich.What,for me,is also a kind of homophobia,in which he had been educated,don't forget it...inside him,he didn't see "this thing" as something advisable,even nothing sane enough,and this makes him feel extremely unease with his feelings.I think that Heath not only portrayed very well Ennis but he understood him better than nobody else;so,his definition I have mentioned more than once here,"Ennis was an homophobic man in love with another man" is perfectly fitting here.
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Thanks MPJ. I do think that, true to human nature, motivations are never simple, nor monolithic. I can accept that it is probably a combination of different fears and expectations. But I do feel that what was uppermost in Ennis's mind was Jack, and not really himself.
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I don't know if I read too much into it but I get the feeling that Ennis refused Alma jr's proposal to move in with him because he wants to protect Jack. After thanksgiving dinner, I think Ennis became really worried about people finding out about Jack. If he lives with Alma jr, she might find out sooner or later, and like her mother Alma, she may tell people about "Jack nasty".
If my guess is right, this shows great love of Ennis for Jack because we all know how important Alma jr is to Ennis. I don't think Ennis would ever want to disappoint his daughter unless there is something more important at stake.
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0h love the topic ..
he has been expressing in his own sublime way from the very beginning. here are the ones i can recall. ALthough i bet there were many more may be subtle ones as mr. SUBTLE he is ! {b}
in ( early bbm tent days)
1. soup favour ::)
2. sharing his thoughts with jack - talking to him - for somebody like ennis that was "some" move boy !
3. SNIT !!! :d:
4. the hug from back (this was shown at the end though) <^(
after that
1. his breaking down while leaving ( however this would not come under "expressing" because thats a self-sulk )
2. you bet reply
3. KISS !!! after 5 years - now this was his most expressive uncharacteristic outrageous burst ^f^
4. motel scene ya
5. harmonica
6. and of course the final confrontation
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i missed talking about the wrestling in bbm tent days when he ended up hitting jack. Now the problem is that Mr. Ennis is also Mr. confused so many a times his "expression" of love goes haywire