Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com
The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: Patriot1 on Sep 29, 2006, 06:38 PM
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Ennis worked. Alma worked. They had a simple home, nothing extravagant. They wore simple, maybe even thrift store clothes. They had gas, gasoline, electric and telephone to pay. They never went anywhere. Ennis owned a beat-up old truck not a new one or even recent one.
Why were they so far behind on the bills!?
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They both smoked, Ennis drank a lot (example: the waiting scene for the reunion, endless amount of empty bottles of beer) and the jobs they had were poorly paid. It couldn't improve after the reunion since Ennis kept ranch hand jobs poorly paid he could quit at any time to be with Jack, about this he refused to discuss a job opportunity at the power plan with Alma. Also, Jenny had asthma and they had to pay for the doctor and the medications... The list could be long.
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I guess they also had to pay medial bills for the births of the two children, one in the first year after they were married. They had no money to start married life, as far as we know; all Ennis had what what he's earned on Brokeback and he's evidently disappointed that that's a month's less than he expected. And they're paying rent. Even now it's difficult to start out, specially if you have no savings, and get a home together and have children early on in the marriage - i can't see that they're any more badly off than you'd expect, given that neither earned much and once Ennis started going off two or three times a year and giving up each job to do so they must have had periods when there was nothing at all coming in, except what Alma made working part-time in the supermarket.
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Ennis worked. Alma worked. They had a simple home, nothing extravagant. They wore simple, maybe even thrift store clothes. They had gas, gasoline, electric and telephone to pay. They never went anywhere. Ennis owned a beat-up old truck not a new one or even recent one.
Why were they so far behind on the bills!?
Could it be that it had more to do with the fact that Ennis's cashflow was not steady, since he was not always needed at the ranch and was essentially "on-call"?
The bills were almost certainly regular expenses like rent and groceries, since I suspect that they kept a running account with the grocer and would have settled what was outstanding at regular intevals.
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They also had to buy clothes and though Alma looks like a bag lady, the kids have to be dressed and have shoes and winter coats and all the rest. I can imagine that there are people now in low-paid jobs in the US - there certainly are here - who can't cope and find every unexpected expense a problem, as, for example, Ennis's brother and sister did. When the transmission went on the pickup, they couldn't afford to get it fixed, which is why Ennis's educarion came to an abrupt end, although he wanted to continue it.
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Even though the place wasn't much, the rent on their little apartment was probably really high considering what they earned. In small towns, decent housing is always a problem.
When Alma asked if they could move to town, Ennis said "rents in town are too expensive." I was under the impression that as long as Ennis was working on that "lonesome ranch" the rent was free.
One more thing, Ennis had two horses...and keeping horses is expensive. In the ss, Ennis worked part-time at the Rafter B to pay for boarding his horses. So although he was working two jobs, he only got income from one. And, Alma was probably only working part-time and a lot of what she earned probably went for babysitters (absolutely no day-care in the 1960's).
No matter how hard they worked they would never seem to get ahead (still true for a lot of people in 2006).
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Doubly true of those working as employees on other people's land - their wages have always been low and still are. And given all the stuff about Walmart, I guess supermarket part-timers got a raw deal in the past as they do now.
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Doubly true of those working as employees on other people's land - their wages have always been low and still are. And given all the stuff about Walmart, I guess supermarket part-timers got a raw deal in the past as they do now.
MY neighbor works as a cashier at an Albertdon's Market and makes $19 an hour. That is some raw deal I'd say.
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As someone who grew up very poor in rural America in the 60s-70-s, I can say a few things. My dad worked construction, and made decent money, but it wasn't consistent. Remember at the end of the movie Ennis struggles with the decision whether to go on the roundup or go to his daughter's wedding.That sort of thing is common among people who work on an "as needed" basis.
Also, rural economic standards always lag behind more populated areas. I remember working as a dishwasher when I was sixteen for $1.50 an hour. (The minimum wage at the time was 3 or 3.15). Many many people held jobs working below minimum, and no one cared anything about it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Alma's job paid below minimum. Likewise, my dad was paid less than he would have been paid in the city or the suburbs, though above the minimum.
When you work outside in a rural area, your work time is often curtailed by weather. Let's say they were going to castrate a bunch of calves and a huge rainstorm came up. Rather than try to round up the calves in the mud, they might wait a day or two... and the workers not get paid. I remember (as an adult) when I had a job working for the city government and they sent us home one day because of a snowstorm. When I told my dad about it, he asked, "You still get paid?" Of course I did, but he had to ask to be sure.
Also, people who haven't grown up with money and without parents who are good at managing money (or no parents at all, like Ennis) haven't learned how to manage their own finances. They might be careless with paying bills and end up with late fees, etc. They might not instinctively know how to make the best choices. And, as pointed out upthread, cigarettes and beer--always more popular among the poor--certainly eat up the funds quickly.
There were and are millions of people in America living in rural poverty. Ennis and Alma are, as I see it, a realistic example.
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Thank you for that insight Edgar ^f^
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Even though the place wasn't much, the rent on their little apartment was probably really high considering what they earned. In small towns, decent housing is always a problem.
When Alma asked if they could move to town, Ennis said "rents in town are too expensive." I was under the impression that as long as Ennis was working on that "lonesome ranch" the rent was free.
One more thing, Ennis had two horses...and keeping horses is expensive. In the ss, Ennis worked part-time at the Rafter B to pay for boarding his horses. So although he was working two jobs, he only got income from one. And, Alma was probably only working part-time and a lot of what she earned probably went for babysitters (absolutely no day-care in the 1960's).
No matter how hard they worked they would never seem to get ahead (still true for a lot of people in 2006).
Good points, jesseanne21.
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Doubly true of those working as employees on other people's land - their wages have always been low and still are. And given all the stuff about Walmart, I guess supermarket part-timers got a raw deal in the past as they do now.
MY neighbor works as a cashier at an Albertdon's Market and makes $19 an hour. That is some raw deal I'd say.
This mention of walmart brought to mind something we may want to consider regarding Ennis and his family: health insurance of some sort. Did they have any? What was standard practice at that time and that place?
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As someone who grew up very poor in rural America in the 60s-70-s, I can say a few things. My dad worked construction, and made decent money, but it wasn't consistent. Remember at the end of the movie Ennis struggles with the decision whether to go on the roundup or go to his daughter's wedding.That sort of thing is common among people who work on an "as needed" basis.
Also, rural economic standards always lag behind more populated areas. I remember working as a dishwasher when I was sixteen for $1.50 an hour. (The minimum wage at the time was 3 or 3.15). Many many people held jobs working below minimum, and no one cared anything about it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Alma's job paid below minimum. Likewise, my dad was paid less than he would have been paid in the city or the suburbs, though above the minimum.
When you work outside in a rural area, your work time is often curtailed by weather. Let's say they were going to castrate a bunch of calves and a huge rainstorm came up. Rather than try to round up the calves in the mud, they might wait a day or two... and the workers not get paid. I remember (as an adult) when I had a job working for the city government and they sent us home one day because of a snowstorm. When I told my dad about it, he asked, "You still get paid?" Of course I did, but he had to ask to be sure.
Also, people who haven't grown up with money and without parents who are good at managing money (or no parents at all, like Ennis) haven't learned how to manage their own finances. They might be careless with paying bills and end up with late fees, etc. They might not instinctively know how to make the best choices. And, as pointed out upthread, cigarettes and beer--always more popular among the poor--certainly eat up the funds quickly.
There were and are millions of people in America living in rural poverty. Ennis and Alma are, as I see it, a realistic example.
Very good points, edgar. Although Ennis was spartan when it came to his way of life, I do think that he was not good at managing money or planning for the future.
As greenfrog said, thanks for the insight.
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Planning for the future is pretty hard when you're on a low income. When my mother and father were first married and my father was trying to get qualifications by working at night after he'd finished the day-job - married women didn't work then so my mother had to be at home, though she'd worked and enjoyed it before they married - my mother managed the money - put aside enough for the bills in spearate places each week. Thenmy father was taken ill - he had first a duodenal then a gastric ulcer and nearly died. The owner of the company paid for his to go to the coast to convalesce but of course didn't pay for my mother, who had to go as my father was too weak to travel alone. When they came back they were totally penniless and had no food in the house. My mother went hunting around and found a ten-shilling note ( 50p, about 90c) and was conviced its appearance was a miracle. Of course they didn't pay him till he'd worked the b=next week - that's how close financial disaster could come. And there were no credit cards then...
This struck me the other day when some financial stuff appeared from a card I no longer use - to get me interested in using it again they were offering us a card each with Ģ15,500 limit on each. We have no idea how different things were even in the sixties.
So I don't think Ennis and Alma had any way of saving - like a lot of people they just kept their heads above water if they were lucky and had no disasters.
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Planning for the future is pretty hard when you're on a low income. When my mother and father were first married and my father was trying to get qualifications by working at night after he'd finished the day-job - married women didn't work then so my mother had to be at home, though she'd worked and enjoyed it before they married - my mother managed the money - put aside enough for the bills in spearate places each week. Thenmy father was taken ill - he had first a duadenal then a gastric ulcer and nearly dies. The owner of the company paid for his to go to the coast to convalesce but of course didn't pay for my mother, who had to go as my father was too weak to travel alone. When they came back they were totally penniless and had no food in the house. My mother went hunting around and found a ten-shilling note ( 50p, about 90c) and was conviced its appearance was a miracle. Of course they didn't pay him till he'd worked the b=next week - that's how close financial disaster could come. And there were no credit cards then...
This struck me the other day when some financial stuff appeared from a csard I no longer use - to get me interested in using it again they were offering us a card each with Ģ15,500 limit on each. We have no idea how differnt things were even in the sixties.
So I don't think Ennis and Alma had any way of saving - like a lot of people they just kept their heads above water if they were lucky and had no disasters.
I suspect that in the later years of their marriage, it was Alma that kept things afloat. But I also suspect that after the divorce, Ennis was able to live on whatever small amount of money he managed to earn. Other than the pleasures of smoking and drinking, he probably had very few non-basic expenses, no? He was poor, but I don't think he was living beyond his means (a contrast to so many people today who deal with the temptations and consequences of extended credit -- as WW has referenced in her above post.)
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I also thought the amount of child support set - $250 a mionth - was a lot in 1975. Ennis clearly kept paying it so he can't have had a lot left over once he'd paid for rent, food and other essentials.
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I also thought the amount of child support set - $250 a mionth - was a lot in 1975. Ennis clearly kept paying it so he can't have had a lot left over once he'd paid for rent, food and other essentials.
Perhaps I am not in tune with the value of money in 1975. He did complain about the expense to Jack in the last meeting. Although he was frugal, you can only stretch a small wage so far, I guess.
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I also thought the amount of child support set - $250 a mionth - was a lot in 1975. Ennis clearly kept paying it so he can't have had a lot left over once he'd paid for rent, food and other essentials.
Perhaps I am not in tune with the value of money in 1975. He did complain about the expense to Jack in the last meeting. Although he was frugal, you can only stretch a small wage so far, I guess.
Having been a child of divorced parents, chiild support payments were often not based on how much money the parents had/made, but who had the better lawyer (that's probably why there are SO MANY deadbeat dads out there). There was no mention in the movie or short story of alimony to Alma, so Ennis may have actually gotten off kind of easy.
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Having been a child of divorced parents, chiild support payments were often not based on how much money the parents had/made, but who had the better lawyer (that's probably why there are SO MANY deadbeat dads out there). There was no mention in the movie or short story of alimony to Alma, so Ennis may have actually gotten off kind of easy.
Interesting. If he did not have to pay alimony, then would that mean that he was "poorer" than Alma? I doubt that Ennis would have found a better lawyer than Alma...
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Having been a child of divorced parents, chiild support payments were often not based on how much money the parents had/made, but who had the better lawyer (that's probably why there are SO MANY deadbeat dads out there). There was no mention in the movie or short story of alimony to Alma, so Ennis may have actually gotten off kind of easy.
Interesting. If he did not have to pay alimony, then would that mean that he was "poorer" than Alma? I doubt that Ennis would have found a better lawyer than Alma...
Ooops, I forgot, in the short story, it states that Alma 'divorced Ennis and married the Riverton grocer' so she may not have sought alimony because she was planning to remarry soon. I always assumed she married Monroe right after the divorce became final. In the movie, Ennis' and Alma's divorce was granted on November 6, 1975. Then later you see Ennis at Thanksgiving dinner (late November) and Alma is obviously pregnant. I don't think Alma would have gotten pregnant with Monroe until they were married, so I assume that the Thanksgiving dinner takes place a year or two after the divorce.
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According to the dates in the ( inaccurate) screenplay, the Thanksgiving dinners take place in November 1977, which would have allowed a decent interval to elapse afte the divorce, then for Alma to marry Monroe, then get pregnant after another decent interval - all very proper. Ennis would have been paying child support for two years by this Thanksgiving but maybe if Alma knew she was going to marry Monroe as soon as was acceptable, she wouldn't have asked for alimony which Ennis would pay only for a few months.
I still think, however, that he was paying a large amount in child support - no wonder he was so impoversished after the divorce as well as before.
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Planning for the future is pretty hard when you're on a low income. When my mother and father were first married and my father was trying to get qualifications by working at night after he'd finished the day-job - married women didn't work then so my mother had to be at home, though she'd worked and enjoyed it before they married - my mother managed the money - put aside enough for the bills in spearate places each week. Thenmy father was taken ill - he had first a duodenal then a gastric ulcer and nearly died. The owner of the company paid for his to go to the coast to convalesce but of course didn't pay for my mother, who had to go as my father was too weak to travel alone. When they came back they were totally penniless and had no food in the house. My mother went hunting around and found a ten-shilling note ( 50p, about 90c) and was conviced its appearance was a miracle. Of course they didn't pay him till he'd worked the b=next week - that's how close financial disaster could come. And there were no credit cards then...
This struck me the other day when some financial stuff appeared from a card I no longer use - to get me interested in using it again they were offering us a card each with Ģ15,500 limit on each. We have no idea how different things were even in the sixties.
So I don't think Ennis and Alma had any way of saving - like a lot of people they just kept their heads above water if they were lucky and had no disasters.
ww: I can really relate to what you wrote. I don't know how many times when I was growing up that we had either no meat or no bread--on bad days, neither. We lived in a rural area and we did have two cows, so we usually had plenty of milk. We eventually sold the cows when some debts pressed us. Like you said, just keeping our heads above water was pretty good for us.
The story about the ten-shilling note brings back a memory as clearly as if it had happened yesterday. My mom took me and my two young siblings to the store in the little town nearby--smaller than the store Alma worked in. As we were walking down the sidewalk, I saw something blowing in the breeze. It was a ten dollar bill, folded up into a small square. I picked it up and stared at it--I had never held that much money in my hands. My mother matter-of-factly reached down and took it from me and put it in her purse. We went in the store and she bought more groceries than originally planned.
Several days (weeks?) later, I brought up the fact that I had found the money and it should be mine. My mom said, still matter-of-factly, "You ate just as much of it as the anyone else did." And that was that.
And *tpe*, about the health insurance question: No, they did not have any. Once again, this was something of a rural/urban divide at the time. Most people in rural areas, excepting those who worked for the government, had no health insurance. We had none all the time I was growing up, until my parents separated and my mom signed up for state benefits. I remember thinking it very odd that she took us kids to the doctor even though we weren't sick--just for a checkup.
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Very interesting story, edgar -- about the 10 dollar bill. It is strangely moving, for some reason. I am perhaps naive, as I had never been in such a situation in my life.
"The poor you will have always." It doesn't mean that one truly understands them. In the case of Ennis, I can imagine it being much worse -- spending a great deal of his younger days without the love of parents and having to work to survive.
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Being so closely involved with the need to make money, not in a general sense but to keep his head above water and live from day to day must have a very strong effect on him. Part of Ennis's unwillingness to abandon the familiar and take the risk of setting up with Jack may stem from the precariousness of his finanacial position - money has always been in short supply and he doesn't dare jeopardize his chances of keeping on making it.
For many of us the idea of literally having no money is something we've never experienced. We are lucky. When we say "I can't afford x" what we mean often is that we choose not to buy it, and what we're talking about is a luxury anyway. When Ennis has no money, he has no money, as after the weeks on Brokeback.
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Being so closely involved with the need to make money, not in a general sense but to keep his head above water and live from day to day must have a very strong effect on him. Part of Ennis's unwillingness to abandon the familiar and take the risk of setting up with Jack may stem from the precariousness of his financial position - money has always been in short supply and he doesn't dare jeopardize his chances of keeping on making it.
For many of us the idea of literally having no money is something we've never experienced. We are lucky. When we say "I can't afford x" what we mean often is that we choose not to buy it, and what we're talking about is a luxury anyway. When Ennis has no money, he has no money, as after the weeks on Brokeback.
Something else about HAVING NO MONEY...when you are really broke (and I have been there) it literally (physically, mentally and emotionally) HURTS to NEED something/anything. It is even more exhausting and painful to even think about just WANTING things when you really cannot believe that you will ever get them. The way out of that, paradoxically, is to keep the thoughts of what you want in mind, but sometimes that is just too painful.
As far as Ennis is concerned, if a person is living in a basic SURVIVAL mode, where just getting through the day is a struggle, it is hard for them to envision something better or to let themselves want for more. Ennis' comment to his daughter "If you don't got nothing, then you don't need nothing." is very telling about his view of the world.
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It's all part of the same way of thinking that leads him to say, "If you can't fix it, you've got to stand it". Essentially Ennis is a stoic - he thinks he has to accept what fate sends and live with it, so he has no vision of what he might achieve. He is in this way in direct opposition to Jack.
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Something else about HAVING NO MONEY...when you are really broke (and I have been there) it literally (physically, mentally and emotionally) HURTS to NEED something/anything. It is even more exhausting and painful to even think about just WANTING things when you really cannot believe that you will ever get them. The way out of that, paradoxically, is to keep the thoughts of what you want in mind, but sometimes that is just too painful.
As far as Ennis is concerned, if a person is living in a basic SURVIVAL mode, where just getting through the day is a struggle, it is hard for them to envision something better or to let themselves want for more. Ennis' comment to his daughter "If you don't got nothing, then you don't need nothing." is very telling about his view of the world.
I do feel that Ennis was stoic more by necessity, and not by choice. I think he felt that he really had no choice and that his state was preordained by the tragedies during his childhood.
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Something else about HAVING NO MONEY...when you are really broke (and I have been there) it literally (physically, mentally and emotionally) HURTS to NEED something/anything. It is even more exhausting and painful to even think about just WANTING things when you really cannot believe that you will ever get them. The way out of that, paradoxically, is to keep the thoughts of what you want in mind, but sometimes that is just too painful.
As far as Ennis is concerned, if a person is living in a basic SURVIVAL mode, where just getting through the day is a struggle, it is hard for them to envision something better or to let themselves want for more. Ennis' comment to his daughter "If you don't got nothing, then you don't need nothing." is very telling about his view of the world.
I do feel that Ennis was stoic more by necessity, and not by choice. I think he felt that he really had no choice and that his state was preordained by the tragedies during his childhood.
TPE - I think you're right...Ennis felt he had no choice and his state was preordained. But, I think it was more than just the tragedies of his childhood that caused him to think that way.
Over the weekend I saw a advanced showing of the documentary 21-Up America (a follow-up of 7-Up America and 14-Up America, which was based on the brilliant British series 7-UP, 14, 21, 28, 35 and 42-UP) by Michael Apted. The British series opened with the comment "Give me a boy at the age of 7 and I will show you the man."
A frightening comment (TO ME) made in the American version is that according to psychologists 80% of a persons personality and beliefs about themselves and life are set by the age of 7 and most people do not change (question) those beliefs. That is why most people basically live the same types of lives that their parents lived.
I do not think that Ennis felt he had no choice, I just think that Ennis, unlike Jack, never questioned his beliefs or where they came from...he simply accepted things the way they were and believed they could not change.
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This is why the Jesuits say, or used to, "Give me a child till he is seven and he is ours for ever".
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TPE - I think you're right...Ennis felt he had no choice and his state was preordained. But, I think it was more than just the tragedies of his childhood that caused him to think that way.
Over the weekend I saw a advanced showing of the documentary 21-Up America (a follow-up of 7-Up America and 14-Up America, which was based on the brilliant British series 7-UP, 14, 21, 28, 35 and 42-UP) by Michael Apted. The British series opened with the comment "Give me a boy at the age of 7 and I will show you the man."
A frightening comment (TO ME) made in the American version is that according to psychologists 80% of a persons personality and beliefs about themselves and life are set by the age of 7 and most people do not change (question) those beliefs. That is why most people basically live the same types of lives that their parents lived.
I do not think that Ennis felt he had no choice, I just think that Ennis, unlike Jack, never questioned his beliefs or where they came from...he simply accepted things the way they were and believed they could not change.
How interesting. One can almost argue that the brain is indeed like a neural network that hardens after a period of conditioning and cannot unlearn what has been learned on the onset. Quite provocative.
Whether this is entirely true or not, I do think there is a grain of truth to it. Certain societal beliefs do seem to solidify as we get older. The case of Ennis should not really surprise us, even if we may consider his case to be extreme...
Sorry, this is getting to be a bit OOT. Back to the question of money...
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So if Ennis was conditioned from an early age, by maybe his parents and almost certainly his brother and sister, to believe that it was only to be expected that one worked hard and kept one's head above water but no more, than this attitude became part of him. He didn't have ambitions, couldn;t imagine himself as well-off and so settled for more of what he'd always had - he was the sort of man who had always been badly off and always would be. Just like he was the sort of man who didn;t set up home with another man and always would be.
It's evident that although he knows they are badly off and knows Alma worries about it, he's not prepared to do anything to change that.
If he went off with Jack for up to a week three times a year that must have meant no money coming in at all at those times, until Alma got her part-time job. And in bad weather he may have worked shorter hours or not at all - in the supermarket scene he's obviously anxious to keep his job while he's got it, as he is in the final parting from Jack.
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Found this picture which seems to sum up the situation they where living in best.
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioscop.cz%2F_web%2F_filmy%2Fb_zkrocena_hora%2Ffotografie%2F006_zkrocena_hora.jpg&hash=352564d085abe56294a294a6fe404e57f5fa4a7a)
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So if Ennis was conditioned from an early age, by maybe his parents and almost certainly his brother and sister, to believe that it was only to be expected that one worked hard and kept one's head above water but no more, than this attitude became part of him. He didn't have ambitions, couldn;t imagine himself as well-off and so settled for more of what he'd always had - he was the sort of man who had always been badly off and always would be. Just like he was the sort of man who didn;t set up home with another man and always would be.
It's evident that although he knows they are badly off and knows Alma worries about it, he's not prepared to do anything to change that.
If he went off with Jack for up to a week three times a year that must have meant no money coming in at all at those times, until Alma got her part-time job. And in bad weather he may have worked shorter hours or not at all - in the supermarket scene he's obviously anxious to keep his job while he's got it, as he is in the final parting from Jack.
Money didn't seem like an impediment to Ennis meeting Jack up until the last years. I guess the situation got tougher as he got older -- very typical, even nowadays. Or was money just a convenient excuse in the later years?
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Found this picture which seems to sum up the situation they where living in best.
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioscop.cz%2F_web%2F_filmy%2Fb_zkrocena_hora%2Ffotografie%2F006_zkrocena_hora.jpg&hash=352564d085abe56294a294a6fe404e57f5fa4a7a)
Nice pic of this scene. :)
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? *o) but isn't this a wonderful construction? Shows how they just accrete odd things and surround themselves with them in no apparent order and with no apparent intention behind them. You get the imoprssion that the can't afford to replace thngs, throw them away, etc, maybe are making do with things acquired cheaply or given to them. It's also a nice contrast with Jack and Lureen's home, which is much more co-ordinated and indicates their finanacial status.
( The carpet in this picture is so right - utterly revolting, but spot on for the period.)
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Money didn't seem like an impediment to Ennis meeting Jack up until the last years. I guess the situation got tougher as he got older -- very typical, even nowadays. Or was money just a convenient excuse in the later years?
I don't think money was an impediment to Ennis meeting Jack when Ennis was married to Alma...Ennis said in the ss and the movie that he would just quit his job in the earlier days to be with Jack. After the divorce though when he HAD to make those child support payments on time, then he had to make a choice between keeping his job or seeing Jack.
I can understand why you might think Ennis used money as a convenient excuse not to see Jack in the later years, but for me, I don't think that was the case. The pain on Ennis' face when he told Jack he couldn't meet him in August was heart wrenching (to me). And, when Jack was yelling at him about "you have no idea of how bad it gets" I could almost hear Ennis thinking to himself "I do know how bad it gets and you just don't understand how hard I'm trying to be with you."
*o) Getting vacation time from work is sometimes really tough...the people in my office are already putting in their requests for summer vacation 2007 (everyone can't go on vacation at the same time).
Also, I was informed at 5:30 pm today that I will probably have to work all weekend (one of my attorneys is involved in a trial), so I have to take off from my moonlighting job to do my regular job (SOMETIMES WORK SUCKS). :X
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I suspect that in the later years of their marriage, it was Alma that kept things afloat. But I also suspect that after the divorce, Ennis was able to live on whatever small amount of money he managed to earn. Other than the pleasures of smoking and drinking, he probably had very few non-basic expenses, no? He was poor, but I don't think he was living beyond his means (a contrast to so many people today who deal with the temptations and consequences of extended credit -- as WW has referenced in her above post.)
Yes, at least they weren't in huge debt like so many today. But they just got by. As to why they were behind on the bills, that is another story -- and that could refer not to monthly bills, but something extra, like doctor bills for the kids. I'm sure they didn't have insurance. We never did, during that time. And as said upthread [I like that], maybe Ennis's work wasn't steady, and he wouldn't get paid in bad weather.
I know for myself and others, living from meager paycheck to meager paycheck, and when you don't have any money you literally don't have any, no savings, no borrowing power. Usually a few bucks from a friend will get you by til payday. But that's without kids.
But that was a long time ago...
kathy
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I also thought the amount of child support set - $250 a mionth - was a lot in 1975. Ennis clearly kept paying it so he can't have had a lot left over once he'd paid for rent, food and other essentials.
I thought that also, that that was a high amount for the time, and in the place. As opposed to in NYC or wherever, and based on the father's great income, it would be more. But from Ennis, in Riverton?
kathy
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? *o) but isn't this a wonderful construction? Shows how they just accrete odd things and surround themselves with them in no apparent order and with no apparent intention behind them. You get the imoprssion that the can't afford to replace thngs, throw them away, etc, maybe are making do with things acquired cheaply or given to them. It's also a nice contrast with Jack and Lureen's home, which is much more co-ordinated and indicates their finanacial status.
( The carpet in this picture is so right - utterly revolting, but spot on for the period.)
I'm sorry, but this is nicer than what I grew up in. If you take away the kids toys, the laundry on the chair, the empty bottles and other clutter around, it's pretty nice. (And I like the two-tone walls with chair rail.) Their furniture looks in better condition than ours did. The carpet is horrid, agreed. (We felt that "rich" people had wall-to-wall carpet. We had nice wood floors -- can you imagine thinking ugly carpeting is "better" than wood floors?) OT, but I have more about Ennis and money, but later...
kathy
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I don't think money was an impediment to Ennis meeting Jack when Ennis was married to Alma...Ennis said in the ss and the movie that he would just quit his job in the earlier days to be with Jack. After the divorce though when he HAD to make those child support payments on time, then he had to make a choice between keeping his job or seeing Jack.
I can understand why you might think Ennis used money as a convenient excuse not to see Jack in the later years, but for me, I don't think that was the case. The pain on Ennis' face when he told Jack he couldn't meet him in August was heart wrenching (to me). And, when Jack was yelling at him about "you have no idea of how bad it gets" I could almost hear Ennis thinking to himself "I do know how bad it gets and you just don't understand how hard I'm trying to be with you."
*o) Getting vacation time from work is sometimes really tough...the people in my office are already putting in their requests for summer vacation 2007 (everyone can't go on vacation at the same time).
Also, I was informed at 5:30 pm today that I will probably have to work all weekend (one of my attorneys is involved in a trial), so I have to take off from my moonlighting job to do my regular job (SOMETIMES WORK SUCKS). :X
Well there is indeed one instance where money did not seem to be the issue: when Jack offered in the first fishing trip to get a downpayment from Lureen's father as a condition for divorce.
Jack certainly covered this. He had hoped that if money would not be a problem with them getting together, then Ennis would agree to a life together. I guess that for Ennis, it was also family... or was this secondary to his true fears, as he pretty much revealed in the Earl and Rich story?
As for the later years, I do still think that Ennis had some leeway, although I do admit that money was getting to be a real problem. I cannot escape the suspicion that he was withdrawing into himself more and more -- although I do not doubt that he also missed Jack terribly during the long stretches when they did not see each other. Why I say this is that I think of the possibility that a part of Ennis blamed Jack for what had become of his family and for his inability to start a new life with someone else like Cassie. He revealed as much in what he said in his last meeting with Jack...
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Then Ennis is remarkably unresentful - if Alma's divorce traps him into making big child-support payments and makes seeing Jack more difficult, while she is well provided for by Monroe, you'd think he'd feel she's trapped him, as indeed she has - he has, when they divorce, something like nine years of paying for the gilrls ahead of him. Not only difficult to drop whatever job he's doing to meet Jack, but also difficult to get together a home for himself and/or marry again.
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So if Ennis was conditioned from an early age, by maybe his parents and almost certainly his brother and sister, to believe that it was only to be expected that one worked hard and kept one's head above water but no more, than this attitude became part of him. He didn't have ambitions, couldn;t imagine himself as well-off and so settled for more of what he'd always had - he was the sort of man who had always been badly off and always would be. Just like he was the sort of man who didn;t set up home with another man and always would be.
This is all very interesting -- also what tpe and jesseanne said -- about Ennis's mindset, where these "stuck" attitudes came from. Jack may well have grown up steeped in the very same ideas, but somehow he escaped them. He left; he felt free to drift around but his parents were still up there in L.F. So he had a "home" to leave (home being where your "folks" are) and to go back to. Ennis didn't. He had to try and find his way, probably not going very far, just looking around him from when he was a truck-less teen living with his siblings, and seeing what he could do to get by in an acceptable way for his community. If he hadn't met Alma (I wonder where he met her -- does it say in the SS?) he might have been more like Jack. But probably he wouldn't have been like Jack in any event -- he wasn't interested in expanding his life further than the teapot. Alma was exactly what he was looking for -- home and family. That's NOT what Jack had been looking for. Also, Jack had some modest money success at an early age with rodeoing, and that seems part of his dreamer mentality -- he would be the kind who would believe that there were some big bucks out there to be made and it might as well be him to make them.
kathy
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No, the ss doesn't say where Ennis and Alma met - one place might be at church, since Alma seems to go, but I don't see Ennis doing so, nor going to a drive-in or restaurant.The last place he's been with his brother was Worland, which is miles from Riverton ( and Signal). And I can't imagine Alma wandering about round the state - whatever happened to her parents, BTW? She seems as cut off from relations as Ennis.
Ennis since his parents' death has always been homeless and a sort of hanger-on of his sister and brother. Maybe that's why he wanted to settle down and marry - first bit of stability since they lost their family home. That may also be the reason why he's so unwilling to risk losing what he has by setting up with Jack - he's never been comfortable, safe, secure and what he has with Alma is better than anything he had previously.He has at least some money coming in and his girls, to whom he clings and remians committed despite what they cost him.
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No, the ss doesn't say where Ennis and Alma met - one place might be at church, since Alma seems to go, but I don't see Ennis doing so, nor going to a drive-in or restaurant.The last place he's been with his brother was Worland, which is miles from Riverton ( and Signal). And I can't imagine Alma wandering about round the state - whatever happened to her parents, BTW? She seems as cut off from relations as Ennis.
Ennis since his parents' death has always been homeless and a sort of hanger-on of his sister and brother. Maybe that's why he wanted to settle down and marry - first bit of stability since they lost their family home. That may also be the reason why he's so unwilling to risk losing what he has by setting up with Jack - he's never been comfortable, safe, secure and what he has with Alma is better than anything he had previously.He has at least some money coming in and his girls, to whom he clings and remians committed despite what they cost him.
Yeah, what did happen to her parents? Not a mention of them. Not at Thanksgiving dinner in later years, either. Girls don't mention having grandparents. If they were around in the same town in the usual way, then Alma at least might not be so worried about being "behind on the bills." Though I'm sure she'd hate to ask them, and Ennis would hate for her to. But in that "usual way" which did frequently exist back then -- the extended family -- it seems she would have had more of a support system if things got bad.
And where is Ennis's brother? The sister is the one in Worland with the roughneck, right?
kathy
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Speaking of Ennis's brother. I have a question to ask . . .
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh112%2FFroglet125%2FEnnisandbrother.jpg&hash=83bfa032af802a0f93d13cbeef81277f0b619d1f)
Look at the man just to Ennis's left. He's obviously the best man.
But who is he? Ennis's brother perhaps?
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Speaking of Ennis's brother. I have a question to ask . . .
(https://ennisjack.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh112%2FFroglet125%2FEnnisandbrother.jpg&hash=83bfa032af802a0f93d13cbeef81277f0b619d1f)
Look at the man just to Ennis's left. He's obviously the best man.
But who is he? Ennis's brother perhaps?
No, the man to Ennis' left is Alma. :8 The man to Ennis' right is his brother, his best man and the woman to Alma's Left is, I assume, her sister.
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So if Ennis was conditioned from an early age, by maybe his parents and almost certainly his brother and sister, to believe that it was only to be expected that one worked hard and kept one's head above water but no more, than this attitude became part of him. He didn't have ambitions, couldn;t imagine himself as well-off and so settled for more of what he'd always had - he was the sort of man who had always been badly off and always would be. Just like he was the sort of man who didn;t set up home with another man and always would be.
This is all very interesting -- also what tpe and jesseanne said -- about Ennis's mindset, where these "stuck" attitudes came from. Jack may well have grown up steeped in the very same ideas, but somehow he escaped them. He left; he felt free to drift around but his parents were still up there in L.F. So he had a "home" to leave (home being where your "folks" are) and to go back to. Ennis didn't. He had to try and find his way, probably not going very far, just looking around him from when he was a truck-less teen living with his siblings, and seeing what he could do to get by in an acceptable way for his community. If he hadn't met Alma (I wonder where he met her -- does it say in the SS?) he might have been more like Jack. But probably he wouldn't have been like Jack in any event -- he wasn't interested in expanding his life further than the teapot. Alma was exactly what he was looking for -- home and family. That's NOT what Jack had been looking for. Also, Jack had some modest money success at an early age with rodeoing, and that seems part of his dreamer mentality -- he would be the kind who would believe that there were some big bucks out there to be made and it might as well be him to make them.
kathy
Certainly, Jack must not have been as hard up as Ennis in the early years prior to Lureen, but he somehow managed to have cash saved -- not much, probably, but enough to offer a loan to Ennis. I am quite sure that both of them were pretty poor at that stage. True, Jack's marriage to Lureen changed all that for Jack, but I suspect that even before this, he had a different way of looking at money. Part of this is certainly his parents -- a home he could always go back to if he was hard up on cash (as in after the summer of 63). I am sure this is what allowed Jack to save some money. As for Ennis, he had no such recourse...
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No, the ss doesn't say where Ennis and Alma met - one place might be at church, since Alma seems to go, but I don't see Ennis doing so, nor going to a drive-in or restaurant.The last place he's been with his brother was Worland, which is miles from Riverton ( and Signal). And I can't imagine Alma wandering about round the state - whatever happened to her parents, BTW? She seems as cut off from relations as Ennis.
Ennis since his parents' death has always been homeless and a sort of hanger-on of his sister and brother. Maybe that's why he wanted to settle down and marry - first bit of stability since they lost their family home. That may also be the reason why he's so unwilling to risk losing what he has by setting up with Jack - he's never been comfortable, safe, secure and what he has with Alma is better than anything he had previously.He has at least some money coming in and his girls, to whom he clings and remians committed despite what they cost him.
The girls may have cost him a lot, but they were the security of his old age...
They were probably the best "investment" Ennis ever made...
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Iīm really worried about Ennisīlife after Jackīs death and after Alma Jrīs wedding. He was divorced, hadnīt permanent safe job, he was growing old. Divorce is often a turning point toward misery for many men, if they donīt have good jobs or property. They have lost their homes, became totally homeless perhaps, they have begun to use alcohol more, have to cope with child-support, maybe they see their kids seldom etc. depressing things. I wonder what happened to Ennis? Did he manage to make ends meet? He and Alma Jr. were close. I hope he spent a lot of time with Alma Jrīs family.
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Iīm really worried about Ennisīlife after Jackīs death and after Alma Jrīs wedding. He was divorced, hadnīt permanent safe job, he was growing old. Divorce is often a turning point toward misery for many men, if they donīt have good jobs or property. They have lost their homes, became totally homeless perhaps, they have begun to use alcohol more, have to cope with child-support, maybe they see their kids seldom etc. depressing things. I wonder what happened to Ennis? Did he manage to make ends meet? He and Alma Jr. were close. I hope he spent a lot of time with Alma Jrīs family.
The short story indicates Ennis is feeling the pinch during the time you discuss and might have to "go live with his married daughter." I find that very comforting, not so much for material help Ennis gets, but the emotional.
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Ennis reminds me of "Howard's End", one of whose major themes is the search for a home. After losing his parents, Ennis goes from place to place, first with his sister and brother then with Alma then on his own. He never owns a place, is never more than a temporary tenant, and sometimes not a very welcome one. First his sister then his brother marries, and as he says "No more room for me". The places he lives with Alma are rented and the trailer where he ends up not a permanent home.Then if he goes to live with Alma Jr he's going to be, yet again, in someone else's home.
Then there are the tents on the mountain - refuges, but temporary, the property of someone else. And the forces of nature drive Ennis (and Jack) out of those too.
n some ways this reflects the rootlessness of many people in American history, I think, yet Ennis isn't moving in the sense of moving on, or becoming; he's just clinging on at the margins and not in the process of "becoming" anything other than what he started out as.
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Iīm really worried about Ennisīlife after Jackīs death and after Alma Jrīs wedding. He was divorced, hadnīt permanent safe job, he was growing old. Divorce is often a turning point toward misery for many men, if they donīt have good jobs or property. They have lost their homes, became totally homeless perhaps, they have begun to use alcohol more, have to cope with child-support, maybe they see their kids seldom etc. depressing things. I wonder what happened to Ennis? Did he manage to make ends meet? He and Alma Jr. were close. I hope he spent a lot of time with Alma Jrīs family.
At least his child support payments would end very soon as his two children were coming of age. But I admit that that the future looks bleak for Ennis -- money-wise, most especially. I think he would rely on his daughters more and more as he grew older -- this must have been tough for him, given his love of independence.
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My goodness people, you all talk about Ennis as if he is close to death or to the end of his working life anyway. Ennis is only 41 years old! He has another 25 or more years of working life left to him. If he was smart he would continue paying the child support, or a major portion of it, into a retirement fund for the day he did retire. But for now, he is still a young man.
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I think he gives the ipression of being older, partly because he's so emphatic that he can't meet Jack in August because he can't afford to risk his present job, and is eveidently afraid he won;t get another. I don't know whether this is a realistic fear or not; whether he's old for a ranch-hand? or whether jobs are becoming more difficult to find generally, or whether he's a acquired a reputation for giving them up for no apparent ( to employers) reason. By the time Alma Jr visits him in the trailer, he hasn't been paying for her for a year, but that doesn't seem to have affected his financial position.
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My goodness people, you all talk about Ennis as if he is close to death or to the end of his working life anyway. Ennis is only 41 years old! He has another 25 or more years of working life left to him. If he was smart he would continue paying the child support, or a major portion of it, into a retirement fund for the day he did retire. But for now, he is still a young man.
Of course, P, you and I being about the same age, I thought that, too -- it must be real young'uns to be thinking Ennis was "old" in his 40's! (Oh to be in our 40's again! The prime of life.) Anyway, it doesn't seem like Ennis would have much to be putting away in a retirement fund, and most people didn't think of doing that so much then, as they do now. I'm sure he would just figure he'd live on Social Security when the time came, and that wasn't so difficult to do then, and in that place with a lower cost of living.
kathy
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I think he gives the ipression of being older, partly because he's so emphatic that he can't meet Jack in August because he can't afford to risk his present job, and is eveidently afraid he won;t get another. I don't know whether this is a realistic fear or not; whether he's old for a ranch-hand? or whether jobs are becoming more difficult to find generally, or whether he's a acquired a reputation for giving them up for no apparent ( to employers) reason. By the time Alma Jr visits him in the trailer, he hasn't been paying for her for a year, but that doesn't seem to have affected his financial position.
Maybe it did affect his financial position, and maybe he was putting something away in a savings. Seems he just didn't think it necessary to spend more money on where he lived, and on things. I admire that very simple life -- it's just that my trailer would be real clean and have pretty curtains and such.
kathy
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My goodness people, you all talk about Ennis as if he is close to death or to the end of his working life anyway. Ennis is only 41 years old!
Oops! You are right, Patriot1, he is still young man. Somehow I forgot it. ;D Iīm two years older than he, and feel like a young girl. The whole interesting life is waiting for me.
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My goodness people, you all talk about Ennis as if he is close to death or to the end of his working life anyway. Ennis is only 41 years old! He has another 25 or more years of working life left to him. If he was smart he would continue paying the child support, or a major portion of it, into a retirement fund for the day he did retire. But for now, he is still a young man.
I can't imagine Ennis doing a retirement fun. :) But who knows?
As far as jobs is concerned, I suspect Ennis had to compete with younger people who were probably more able to do the more exacting and more physical tasks (I don't think castrating calves fits this description, but I don't know what this job entails.)
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I think he gives the ipression of being older, partly because he's so emphatic that he can't meet Jack in August because he can't afford to risk his present job, and is eveidently afraid he won;t get another. I don't know whether this is a realistic fear or not; whether he's old for a ranch-hand? or whether jobs are becoming more difficult to find generally, or whether he's a acquired a reputation for giving them up for no apparent ( to employers) reason. By the time Alma Jr visits him in the trailer, he hasn't been paying for her for a year, but that doesn't seem to have affected his financial position.
Maybe it did affect his financial position, and maybe he was putting something away in a savings. Seems he just didn't think it necessary to spend more money on where he lived, and on things. I admire that very simple life -- it's just that my trailer would be real clean and have pretty curtains and such.
kathy
Well, I must admit that I had never seriously considered Ennis putting away that much in savings, but there is certainly no reason why he didn't. He certainly lived life simply, and perhaps on his own (without having to pay child support) we would have been able to save something.
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Well, I must admit that I had never seriously considered Ennis putting away that much in savings, but there is certainly no reason why he didn't. He certainly lived life simply, and perhaps on his own (without having to pay child support) we would have been able to save something.
I canīt imagine Ennis with plenty of money. I imagine him living his life quite the same way he used to live, hard work and simple lifestyle. And when the years passed and he really grew old ( someday even he will be old), I like to see him managing to live his life quite satisfactory way. Not much money, but enough anyway, and having good relationship with his daughters. Especially I like to think Alma Jr. brought fulfillment to his life. Though I see Ennisīlife after Jackīs death colored with melancholy colors.
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I wonder about health insurance. Would Ennis have managed? Or perhaps he would be like so many of us even today who would ignore their ailments up until the very last.
We never saw the characters sick in the movie, no? A prolonged illness would have been quite problematic for Ennis financially. As he ages, I am sure this would be a more serious consideration.
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I wonder about health insurance. Would Ennis have managed? Or perhaps he would be like so many of us even today who would ignore their ailments up until the very last.
We never saw the characters sick in the movie, no? A prolonged illness would have been quite problematic for Ennis financially. As he ages, I am sure this would be a more serious consideration.
Okay, I'm only a bit younger than Ennis and Jack, so Ennis still would not be old, right now. But, having come from a very simple life, into our present, where life is not simple, his financial situation could be problematic. So good thing there is Junior, and her kids presumably. Now in their/our parents' generation, and before, even illnesses and such weren't a gigantic problem, I think. Back in the days when a doctor would bill you, and you might die owing him, but that was that. Now you can't do anything without insurance. But I grew up without health insurance, my grandparents didn't have it, etc. Life was just so much simpler then. My point is, it's difficult to live a simple life these days even if you wanted to, when everything that supports our society is so complicated. Then again, I suppose an old man could get by on Social Security living in a trailer outside Riverton, Wyoming, in 2006. You think?
kathy
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Thanks kathy. If Ennis were alive today and ailing, I am sure it would be problematic financially. True, he would probably have to rely on his daughters...
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Iīm trying to imagine what it would be like to live in a society without Social Insurance Institution and be afraid of becoming ill, seriously ill. Frightening!
Little bit OT, but for example:
Last spring when my old dad couldnīt cope alone in his house anymore, the town gave him a small apartment from a block of flats designed for the elderly people. He pays the rent, but I was amazed how cheap it was. And there are always people, nurses, around to check how he is going on. Life is so unjust! Where and when you happen to born, determines you life so much.
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I've tended to think of America as a rich society, though I knew it had huge areas of poverty. What I've learned through being on here is how quickly the bottom can drop out of your world in a place where there is no safety net. A lot of the provision in the UK is pretty awful but it exists. I can't imagine how someone like Ennis would cope if he grew old and unable to cope, needed expensive medical treatment, etc. I assume that the second daughter's asthma cost them money for doctor's visits and drugs - I'm asthmatic and there were drugs available for the condition by then, but like his other expenses these must have made it hard for Ennis to save.
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I've tended to think of America as a rich society, though I knew it had huge areas of poverty. What I've learned through being on here is how quickly the bottom can drop out of your world in a place where there is no safety net. A lot of the provision in the UK is pretty awful but it exists. I can't imagine how someone like Ennis would cope if he grew old and unable to cope, needed expensive medical treatment, etc. I assume that the second daughter's asthma cost them money for doctor's visits and drugs - I'm asthmatic and there were drugs available for the condition by then, but like his other expenses these must have made it hard for Ennis to save.
Just an FYI - The US has had social security and welfare programs available since 1935. When Ennis was married to Alma (1963-1975) they could have utilized those programs if they wanted/needed to. A lot of people, however, considered that kind a help as a last resort - they would rather starve then go on "Welfare."
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I'd heard of Medicare and Medicaid, and food stamps of course. Know about the American aversion to welfare too. Would Ennis and Alma have been eligible if he was working?
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I'd heard of Medicare and Medicaid, and food stamps of course. Know about the American aversion to welfare too. Would Ennis and Alma have been eligible if he was working?
Welfare benefits are determined by income and "need", so even though Ennis and Alma worked they might still have been eligible for some of those benefits. A lot of Americans do have an aversion to welfare - the stereotypical person on welfare is seen as an urban, black, single mother, but the truth/reality is most of the people on welfare are (and always have been) white living in rural areas.
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I imagine Ennis wouldn;t have ben the sort to ask anyone or any system for help, though -you know, his "If you can't fix it, you've got to stand it" mode. I suppose he just accepted poverty - he'd never had real money and presumably doesn't expect to.
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Iīm trying to imagine what it would be like to live in a society without Social Insurance Institution and be afraid of becoming ill, seriously ill. Frightening!
Little bit OT, but for example:
Last spring when my old dad couldnīt cope alone in his house anymore, the town gave him a small apartment from a block of flats designed for the elderly people. He pays the rent, but I was amazed how cheap it was. And there are always people, nurses, around to check how he is going on. Life is so unjust! Where and when you happen to born, determines you life so much.
Actually, in the US, if you have nothing you get taken care of okay (by MediCare), and of course if you're all rich, you are taken care of, but it's the people in the middle who have the problem. You might have to use all the funds you hoped to live on for the rest of your days, for a medical emergency. My Dad, though, he was a jazz piano player, and lived on Social Security his later years, and lived fine, because he was eligible for a nice apartment that cost him only 1/4 of his SS income. If he had owned a home or had other assets, he wouldn't have been taken care of. I had to have him put in a Board & Care place, then a nursing home, but all of it was covered. Whereas my friend's mother had to spend a huge amount monthly for her elder community place.
Anyway, Ennis doesn't have to worry -- we'll all take care of him!
kathy
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I'd heard of Medicare and Medicaid, and food stamps of course. Know about the American aversion to welfare too. Would Ennis and Alma have been eligible if he was working?
Welfare benefits are determined by income and "need", so even though Ennis and Alma worked they might still have been eligible for some of those benefits. A lot of Americans do have an aversion to welfare - the stereotypical person on welfare is seen as an urban, black, single mother, but the truth/reality is most of the people on welfare are (and always have been) white living in rural areas.
They wouldn't have been eligible per se, if Ennis was working, but their children would have been. Maybe they'd get food stamps or something.
Anyway, Ennis wouldn't have liked it, getting "welfare," but Social Security is different -- it's what you've paid into all your working life; it's not welfare. I just hope he had jobs that paid into SS, not "under the table" jobs. I wonder if Aguirre kept good books, and paid Workers Comp, Social Security, etc.
kathy
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Wonderful discussion here. Thanks everybody. Perhaps Ennis did avail of any available services. At least we know that his daughters would probably make sure later in life that he would do so.
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While the US has some programs for poorer people, they leave a lot to be desired. I know people who have worked at rather low-level jobs ( like Ennis') all their lives. These folks have very little money paid into Social Security Administration program. Therefore, their monthy SS allotment is small -- maybe only $600 dollars or so. That doesn't go far when you have to pay rent, food, clothing, medicine and some doctor's bills. Medicare doesn't kick in until age 65,so, up til then, there is very little medical assistance available. There is some for children, but the rules are getting more and more stringent all the time and fewer poor kids are being covered by state medical insurance. Things are bleak if you have to rely upon what the government gives you. People who become disabled have a rough way to go. Often, two or three years will go by after they first apply for SS disability. During that time, they get NOTHING to live on but their own resources ( savings). Consequently, a lot of disabled people give up and stop the qualifying process and go back to some sort of menial work and rely upon charity and extended family to get them through. Things are not perfect with the welfare program or the SS program. Of course, it's more than a lot of countries have, but does not provide an easy life for anyone who hasn't saved. This is hard to get young people to understand. The government will NOT take care of you automatically when you are old. You have to make some provisions for yourself now while you are young and able.
In Ennis' case, I'm sure he would have no savings. I doubt, too, if all his jobs paid SS into the SSAd. When he becomes an old man and can no longer work, he will have a mighty tough time of it. Too bad Jack won't be around to help him out a little.
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Good point, lamusica. The system certainly leaves a lot to be desired and I am quite certain that such services will not spell an end to Ennis's difficulties as he grows older.
Do all of us agree that Ennis didn't seem to value money above other things in life? True, he didn't have much of it to begin with, but I wonder if he even had the will to make more, given the opportunity.
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It's Jack who has and appears to enjoy the things money can buy - a comfortable home, new pickups, clothes, new camping gear in the later years - but Ennis seems not to want or need any of these. He has such limited horizons, never sees the possibilities around him, never hopes for or expects anything other than a marginalized impoversihed life.He doesn't apparently see himself as part of the community and in my view having seen the girls once a month if that for years is not very involved with them. Alm Jr comes to seek him out, at which point it's clear he has little idea of what's going on in her life. The ss makes it clear that going to live with her will be his only and last resort if he doesn't get another job, but whether she will welcome him is another matter. Ennis is a loner and as such in his later years is going to have major problems, financial and otherwise. A more money-orientated individual might have taken advantage of Jack's offer to get money from LD, or later seen Jack as a source od financial stability, but Ennis does neither. He's not interested in money and seems to have little idea of planning for the future.
In fact other than staying alive and supporting himself, Ennis seems to have very few strong desires of any sort.
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It's Jack who has and appears to enjoy the things money can buy - a comfortable home, new pickups, clothes, new camping gear in the later years - but Ennis seems not to want or need any of these. He has such limited horizons, never sees the possibilities around him, never hopes for or expects anything other than a marginalized impoversihed life.He doesn't apparently see himself as part of the community and in my view having seen the girls once a month if that for years is not very involved with them. Alm Jr comes to seek him out, at which point it's clear he has little idea of what's going on in her life. The ss makes it clear that going to live with her will be his only and last resort if he doesn't get another job, but whether she will welcome him is another matter. Ennis is a loner and as such in his later years is going to have major problems, financial and otherwise. A more money-orientated individual might have taken advantage of Jack's offer to get money from LD, or later seen Jack as a source od financial stability, but Ennis does neither. He's not interested in money and seems to have little idea of planning for the future.
In fact other than staying alive and supporting himself, Ennis seems to have very few strong desires of any sort.
Except a few high altitude f**ks a year... And all that costs is gas for his truck, feed for the horses, the price of some whiskey...and his heart...
kathy
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Anyway, Ennis doesn't have to worry -- we'll all take care of him!
kathy
In fact other than staying alive and supporting himself, Ennis seems to have very few strong desires of any sort.
Except a few high altitude f**ks a year... And all that costs is gas for his truck, feed for the horses, the price of some whiskey...and his heart...
kathy
Ditto!
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It's Jack who has and appears to enjoy the things money can buy - a comfortable home, new pickups, clothes, new camping gear in the later years - but Ennis seems not to want or need any of these. He has such limited horizons, never sees the possibilities around him, never hopes for or expects anything other than a marginalized impoversihed life.He doesn't apparently see himself as part of the community and in my view having seen the girls once a month if that for years is not very involved with them. Alm Jr comes to seek him out, at which point it's clear he has little idea of what's going on in her life. The ss makes it clear that going to live with her will be his only and last resort if he doesn't get another job, but whether she will welcome him is another matter. Ennis is a loner and as such in his later years is going to have major problems, financial and otherwise. A more money-orientated individual might have taken advantage of Jack's offer to get money from LD, or later seen Jack as a source od financial stability, but Ennis does neither. He's not interested in money and seems to have little idea of planning for the future.
In fact other than staying alive and supporting himself, Ennis seems to have very few strong desires of any sort.
Except a few high altitude f**ks a year... And all that costs is gas for his truck, feed for the horses, the price of some whiskey...and his heart...
kathy
Good points, ww and kathy. Ennis didn't seem to run after more money and a more comfortable life. Perhaps he though this was closed to him.
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It's Jack who has and appears to enjoy the things money can buy - a comfortable home, new pickups, clothes, new camping gear in the later years - but Ennis seems not to want or need any of these. He has such limited horizons, never sees the possibilities around him, never hopes for or expects anything other than a marginalized impoversihed life.He doesn't apparently see himself as part of the community and in my view having seen the girls once a month if that for years is not very involved with them. Alm Jr comes to seek him out, at which point it's clear he has little idea of what's going on in her life. The ss makes it clear that going to live with her will be his only and last resort if he doesn't get another job, but whether she will welcome him is another matter. Ennis is a loner and as such in his later years is going to have major problems, financial and otherwise. A more money-orientated individual might have taken advantage of Jack's offer to get money from LD, or later seen Jack as a source od financial stability, but Ennis does neither. He's not interested in money and seems to have little idea of planning for the future.
In fact other than staying alive and supporting himself, Ennis seems to have very few strong desires of any sort.
Except a few high altitude f**ks a year... And all that costs is gas for his truck, feed for the horses, the price of some whiskey...and his heart...
kathy
Good points, ww and kathy. Ennis didn't seem to run after more money and a more comfortable life. Perhaps he though this was closed to him.
Ennis remained as AP wrote him and Jack in the short story " [they were] both high school dropout country boys WITH NO PROSPECTS, BROUGHT UP TO HARD WORK AND PRIVATION, both rough-mannered, rough spoken, INURED TO THE STOIC LIFE."
*o) sorry, but that is my favorite line in short story (I don't know why - it's just so poetic)
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jesseanne21, why do you say that this was off-topic? It sheds light on Ennis as far as this topic is concerned.
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Ennis of course accepts privation and never thinks of or expects anything else; Jack is ready in this as in everything else to try to change things, hope for a better life, not to accept that he cn never move on from where he started. Isn't this the American dream? Jack's a dreamer; Ennis isn't. He'll always be poor and always accept the fact.
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Jessieanne21, your favorite line from the SS is beautiful. It is this poetry within prose that makes Annie's work so grand. Love it.