Brokeback Mountain Forum @ ennisjack.com

The Movie & Story => Characters, Quotes & Scenes => Topic started by: bbmlover on Jan 29, 2006, 08:33 AM

Title: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: bbmlover on Jan 29, 2006, 08:33 AM

I have seen BBM 3x now, and still I'am kind of confused about what Jack said in 2nd tent scene.
The 2nd time i saw, and even now i think Jack said "i swear, i swear" (which i took as "i swear, i swear, i love you Ennis") "its alright".   So immediately i related this to last scene where Ennis says "Jack, I swear" (which again i took as "Jack, i swear, i love you)

Am i right here?
If wrong, Please some one let me know the correct dialogue in 2nd tent scene.



"Jack, I swear" - Ennis



Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: ethan on Jan 29, 2006, 08:39 AM
Hello bbmlover, welcome.

I think the consensus is that Jack did say "it's alright it's alright"  Some said "I'm sorry" from Ennis.

HERE (http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=593.0) is a topic which you may find some answers.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: bbmlover on Jan 29, 2006, 08:54 AM
Thank You Ethan

Got more info on the  link you gave.

I'am new to this site - just got registered yesterday. Wow it is really great to be here to talk to people who feel the same about the movie.
BBM has swooped me off. I have sincerly fallen in love with this movie.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: ethan on Jan 29, 2006, 08:59 AM
Thank You Ethan

Got more info on the  link you gave.

I'am new to this site - just got registered yesterday. Wow it is really great to be here to talk to people who feel the same about the movie.
BBM has swooped me off. I have sincerly fallen in love with this movie.

You are welcome. As you wander around in the forum, you will find a lot of great posts from people who share their stories and thought on this terrific movie. Again welcome and hope to read more posts from you. Enjoy your time here.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Titus on Jan 30, 2006, 03:05 PM
Having seen the movie for the third time in a week this afternoon I paid specail attention to the second tent scene.  With both hands to my ears (looking no doubt like Mickey Mouse sitting in the third row!) I am positive I only heard Jack say "It's alright" THREE times.  I had agreed before with those who thought Ennis had apologised on entering the tent, but with hat in hand and his general demeanour, he didn't need to say "I'm sorry"  it was obvious.  Cheers, Titus.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 19, 2006, 09:01 PM
It looks like this thread ended a year ago, but I'm new here and am just reading it.

I muted my TV once & watched the closed captions all the way through to catch every word - since they mumble.  While it wasn't totally accurate, it did clear up a lot of words for me.

In the SNIT the captions said "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, It's all right".  I assumed that Jack said all of that & couldn't figure out why he was apologizing except for possibly dragging Ennis into something he was reluctant to do.  I never thought it was Ennis apologizing - know I've got to watch it for the 15th time!  You are probably right - that makes more sense. They barely move their lips, so it's difficult to tell.

I'd be interested in other's thoughts.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: NoReins on Dec 20, 2006, 02:56 AM
Hi BBM Fan #$#

First time I saw the movie I was convinced Ennis said "I'm sorry" once or twice when he entered the tent - sorry for being rough the night before, sorry for riding off without a word in the morning and, maybe most of all, sorry for not knowing what to do...asking Jack to show him, if you like.

However, I no longer believe that to be the case. Now, I'm almost certain that it's only Jack who speaks and that he says "It's alright" (or "s'alright") three times. Try saying it...your lips don't need to move to do so. Watching really closely, Jack has his mouth slightly open every time the words are heard, while Ennis's mouth stays shut, making it almost impossible for it to have been Ennis who spoke, regardless of what the subtitles say.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: aintfoolin on Dec 20, 2006, 07:15 AM
I hear Ennis saying "I'm sorry" twice and then Jack says S' right". 2 times.  Ennis sort of slurrs it out so that it's barely audible but  This is what I hear. Ennis had to say something for Jack to be nodding and saying S'right"  :s)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: welshwitch on Dec 20, 2006, 08:49 AM
I hear Jack saying "Can I kiss you?" before he does, but no-one else has ever mentioned this - nevertheless, I hear it.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 20, 2006, 09:13 PM
Thanks, NoReins, Aintfoolin & Welshwitch...

"Can I kiss you?"  That's the first time i heard that, but it gets my vote.  How sweet!  In fact, i went back & took another look and think that Jack does do all the talking.  I think i heard all of this:  "Come here, Can I kiss you, sorry, sorry, it's all right".  Did anyone hear "come here?" -  right before he moves in for the kiss.  It's so faint - like everything else.  His lips barely move, but I tried it and it can be done.  Do you think this was all dubbed in afterward?  Whatever they're saying, this scene is hot! :d)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: welshwitch on Dec 21, 2006, 09:05 AM
Yes, I heard almost exactly that, except that i wasn;t sure whether he was saying "I'm sorry" or slurring "It's alright."
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 21, 2006, 10:38 AM
What a great artist Ang Lee is! We all hear what we want to hear, what we think will make this scene the powerful and moving and critical scene that it is. It's the "sweet nothings" of love making which are different for everyone and can change within ourselves with each viewing depending on how we feel right then. It takes incredible discipline to know how much is enough and how much is too much to strike this perfect cinematic balance. This is what will make this movie so meaningful for years and decades to come, the infinite variety of interpretations it allows all along the way.

jackster
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: lauren on Dec 21, 2006, 11:29 AM
i think i heard 'it's alright' too....jack was trying to tell ennis that its okay to love him...i guess
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: aintfoolin on Dec 21, 2006, 11:43 AM
This is why I"m sure that Ennis slurs out "I'm sorry", Sorry for the way he treated Jack earlier, sorry for the "rough" treatment in FNIT?, sorry for leaving Jack in limbo about how he felt in reality. My opinion. Jack says S'all right then.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: NoReins on Dec 22, 2006, 04:58 AM
This is why I"m sure that Ennis slurs out "I'm sorry", Sorry for the way he treated Jack earlier, sorry for the "rough" treatment in FNIT?, sorry for leaving Jack in limbo about how he felt in reality. My opinion. Jack says S'all right then.

Yes, that's what I thought to start with....but it could equally be Jack just picking up on Ennis's nerves/fear/whatever and trying to calm him by saying "It's alright" repeatedly. It's alright to kiss me....it's alright to touch me....it's alright to do whatever you want because it's just us and no-one else has to know.

But that's just my opinion and it really could be either.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: aintfoolin on Dec 22, 2006, 06:23 AM
I agree , It could have been both, different people see and hear different things in this scene. It is like alot in this film, open for the veiwers to interpret. But what ever they said to each other verbally, the eyes were saying much more than any words could say. It was so beautifully acted and very romantic. I loved that guitar playing in the background....PERFECT. ~) *o)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Dec 22, 2006, 08:32 AM
i think i heard 'it's alright' too....jack was trying to tell ennis that its okay to love him...i guess

Yes, I do think he said 'its alright'

But you have said its meaning most beautifully: 'its ok to love me.'

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 22, 2006, 09:06 PM
What a great artist Ang Lee is! We all hear what we want to hear, what we think will make this scene the powerful and moving and critical scene that it is. It's the "sweet nothings" of love making which are different for everyone and can change within ourselves with each viewing depending on how we feel right then. It takes incredible discipline to know how much is enough and how much is too much to strike this perfect cinematic balance. This is what will make this movie so meaningful for years and decades to come, the infinite variety of interpretations it allows all along the way.

jackster


Hello Jackster:  You're exactly right.  Ang Lee is a genius.  He gave us just enough to make us want more & to question what was being said & thought.  The SNIT is the most beautiful scene i have ever seen.  It is so mesmerizing. 

I saw a picture of Ang on the set with Heath & Jake.  He was giving them some instruction (during the scene when Jack comes to Heath's home after hearing of the divorce - girls in truck), & they were listening so intently to him.  It was an amazing picture.  I also heard an interview with Jake & he said he was so worried that the love scenes wouldn't look real.  Boy did he underestimate himself! 

And i agree with aintfoolin -

they didn't need to say words, their eyes and movements said it all.   The lighting & music is absolutely beautiful.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: LuvJackNasty on Dec 22, 2006, 09:58 PM
Quote
i think i heard 'it's alright' too....jack was trying to tell ennis that its okay to love him...i guess

Quote


Yes, that's what I thought to start with....but it could equally be Jack just picking up on Ennis's nerves/fear/whatever and trying to calm him by saying "It's alright" repeatedly. It's alright to kiss me....it's alright to touch me....it's alright to do whatever you want because it's just us and no-one else has to know.

But that's just my opinion and it really could be either.


Beautiful posts!  :\'( I had always heard it as "It's alright". I love SNIT- it is just so tenderly romantic and perfect. Ennis enters hesitantly as he is starting to come to terms with "this thing" and Jack is just so gentle and comforting.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: CrimsonSky on Dec 23, 2006, 08:47 PM
I hear Jack saying "Can I kiss you?" before he does, but no-one else has ever mentioned this - nevertheless, I hear it.

OMG! I remember thinking that Jack said "wanna kiss you" there, but it was one of those where sometimes I'd hear it and sometimes I didn't, then I saw the discussions about the whole "I'm sorry"/"It's alright" thing and no-one ever mentioned anything else, so I thought it was just Jack's loud breathing and I was imagining it, like when people say they can hear hidden messages when you play a record backwards. Looks like this is just the excuse I need to watch that scene again ;)  <^( 
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 23, 2006, 10:06 PM
I hear Jack saying "Can I kiss you?" before he does, but no-one else has ever mentioned this - nevertheless, I hear it.

OMG! I remember thinking that Jack said "wanna kiss you" there, but it was one of those where sometimes I'd hear it and sometimes I didn't, then I saw the discussions about the whole "I'm sorry"/"It's alright" thing and no-one ever mentioned anything else, so I thought it was just Jack's loud breathing and I was imagining it, like when people say they can hear hidden messages when you play a record backwards. Looks like this is just the excuse I need to watch that scene again ;)  <^( 

I have played it over & over since welshwitch's comment, & he does say that - I can mostly just hear "kiss you".  You have to listen very carefully because the music is louder there.  I can hear it better in a couple of the videos on youtube.com

OT - sorry - came to mind - has anyone watched the "Brokeback Flashback" video on youtube?  it is set to Pat Metheny's "Spiritual" and is in slow motion - it's 4 min. long & is absolutely beautiful.  I should post this in another thread.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: LuvJackNasty on Dec 23, 2006, 10:08 PM
Hmmm I never heard wanna kiss you but being the devoted Brokie I am, I'll just have to research that repeatedly until I hear it.  O0

BBM Fan- I've seen that vid- it's beautiful.  :) I think there's a link to it in the collection of videos.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 23, 2006, 10:30 PM
Hmmm I never heard wanna kiss you but being the devoted Brokie I am, I'll just have to research that repeatedly until I hear it.  O0

BBM Fan- I've seen that vid- it's beautiful.  :) I think there's a link to it in the collection of videos.

LuvJackNasty -  I would have attached the link, but i haven't been on this site long enough and don't think i can do it. If someone does a search with "brokeback flashback", i think it's the only one that comes up.  Now go do your research on that SNIT "wanna kiss".  I think you'll be surprised when you barely hear it - i was.  Let us know.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: LuvJackNasty on Dec 23, 2006, 10:41 PM
I just watched it 4 times and didn't hear it  :-\\  :X I had the volume all the way up and the speaker up to my ear. I'll try it later with the headphones. It's such a hardship  ::) ;)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 23, 2006, 10:55 PM
I just watched it 4 times and didn't hear it  :-  :X I had the volume all the way up and the speaker up to my ear. I'll try it later with the headphones. It's such a hardship  ::) ;)

Luv: I could only hear it in the movie after hearing it on a video.  Go to youtube.com and do a search for "ennis & jack's best moments" - you can hear it there and while you're at it - see if you think that just before he moves in for the kiss, jack barely says, "come here". someone mentioned that on this site and i checked it out & could hear that too.  (or is it just wishful thinking?) ;) You've got your work cut out for you.   
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: LuvJackNasty on Dec 23, 2006, 11:02 PM
OMG I thought i heard "come here"!  :clap: But I didn't hear the kiss you part. I;m going to check out You tube- thanks  ^f^
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Twisted on Dec 24, 2006, 03:25 AM
I hear: Ennis: I'm sorry. Jack: It's allright, it's allright.. Come here.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 24, 2006, 03:44 AM
I hear: Ennis: I'm sorry. Jack: It's allright, it's allright.. Come here.

Twisted:  I hadn't heard THAT "come here", but just listened to it again & think you're right. But - I hear this - come here, can i kiss you - then they kiss, then 2 I'm sorry's, it's all right and then another "come here".  it's all so quiet & i have to use headphones.  Do you hear all that?  I go back & forth on who says the "I'm sorrys".   Also - to confuse us more, what is said during the reunion kisses?  I think Ennis says "come here".  Are we obsessed or what?    :-\
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 24, 2006, 03:35 PM
I blasted my TV, and put on my head phones, and Jack says everything. I listened to it with both Closed Caption on my TV, and Subtitles on my DVD, and here is what Jack says.

I'm Sorry.

It's All Right.

It's All Right.

Lie Back. Come On.

I take the "I'm Sorry." being about the kiss since Ennis was pulling away and turning his head slightly, but Jack kissed him, then he said "It's All Right. It's All Right." after and shook his head when he knew Ennis was all right with it. Then as he pulls Ennis onto his chest and lays back down he says, "Lie Back. Come On."
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 24, 2006, 03:44 PM
 Also - to confuse us more, what is said during the reunion kisses? 

Ennis: Jack fu**in' Twist

Jack: Son of A Bitch

Ennis: Come Here

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 24, 2006, 05:40 PM
I blasted my TV, and put on my head phones, and Jack says everything. I listened to it with both Closed Caption on my TV, and Subtitles on my DVD, and here is what Jack says.

I'm Sorry.

It's All Right.

It's All Right.

Lie Back. Come On.




I take the "I'm Sorry." being about the kiss since Ennis was pulling away and turning his head slightly, but Jack kissed him, then he said "It's All Right. It's All Right." after and shook his head when he knew Ennis was all right with it. Then as he pulls Ennis onto his chest and lays back down he says, "Lie Back. Come On."

Del Mar Twist - I agree with you now about Jack saying everything in the SNIT, But - Now more new information, at least for me.  This is the first i heard "lie back - come on", but i like it & have listened several more times - i can't quite make it out, but think you're right.  I, too, use headphones, but sometimes it's easier for me to hear if i just close my eyes and concentrate on them rather than the picture. 

In the reunion scene - when Ennis started pushing Jack against the wall, it sounds like he said something.  Did you hear that?  And when he was pulling Jack off him just before he went upstairs, did you here Ennis say, "later"?  A couple people mentioned that, but i can't quite catch it. I thought my hearing was good in my "old age", but this is driving me crazy.  I appreciate your responses.

Have a good holiday.


BBM Fan
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 24, 2006, 11:54 PM
here is what Jack says.
I'm Sorry.
It's All Right.
It's All Right.
Lie Back. Come On.
I take the "I'm Sorry." being about the kiss since Ennis was pulling away and turning his head slightly, but Jack kissed him, then he said "It's All Right. It's All Right." after and shook his head when he knew Ennis was all right with it. Then as he pulls Ennis onto his chest and lays back down he says, "Lie Back. Come On."
I believe you've hit it exactly right DelMarTwist. Both in WHAT was said and WHY it was said. Those darn subtitle folks have confused it greatly with their visual placement of the words making it look like Ennis says "I'm sorry". I think you're right, Jack says it, and is sorry for being a little too forward with what is actually their FIRST kiss. I'm not sure Ennis was really prepared for a man-to-man kiss, but he came around pretty quick.

What do you think Ennis thought was going to happen when he went to the tent after sitting by the fire and contemplating the situation? Do you think he thought maybe they would just talk about the FNIT or do you think he expected action? I've always felt this move by Ennis, getting up from the camp fire going to the tent, was the pivitol point in the film. If that hadn't happened, it would have been literally "A one shot thing", the rest of they story (as we know it) would not have evolved.

jackster
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: LuvJackNasty on Dec 25, 2006, 12:03 AM
IMO Ennis was giving himself over to Jack. I think when he approached Jack up on the mountain and said "This is a one shot thing we got going on here" etc he had already done his thinking. "Both knew how it would go for the rest of the summer, sheep be damned". He hesitated by the fire- I don't think it was because he didn't want to go into the tent, I think he was just nervous. I agree this is pivotal to the film- it does show how much Ennis loved/cared for Jack- we don't find out until much later about the horrible thing his father had shown him but knowing that it makes Ennis going to Jack even more powerful.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: greenfrog on Dec 25, 2006, 01:52 AM
I take the "I'm Sorry." being about the kiss since Ennis was pulling away and turning his head slightly, but Jack kissed him, then he said "It's All Right. It's All Right." after and shook his head when he knew Ennis was all right with it. Then as he pulls Ennis onto his chest and lays back down he says, "Lie Back. Come On."

I've heard the "I'm Sorry" and "It's All Right" a number of times before, but last night, for the first time, I heard "Lie Back. Come On". Well, I nearly fell off the sofa. He says it so tenderly and lovingly and Ennis just melts into his arms and . . . . I think I need to go watch the 2nd tent scene again.

 <^( <^( <^(
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 25, 2006, 05:49 PM
We don't find out until much later about the horrible thing his father had shown him but knowing that it makes Ennis going to Jack even more powerful.
You Bet.

jackster
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: NoReins on Dec 27, 2006, 12:29 PM
Jeez, I think I'm going to have to go and watch the SNIT again with my headphones on to see if I can hear the "lie back" from Jack...never heard it before but I'm not above watching again (and again and again and again) to try to hear it. The things I'll do in the name of research... ::) :)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 27, 2006, 08:16 PM
Jeez, I think I'm going to have to go and watch the SNIT again with my headphones on to see if I can hear the "lie back" from Jack...never heard it before but I'm not above watching again (and again and again and again) to try to hear it. The things I'll do in the name of research... ::) :)

Yes, we need more research.  I still don't hear "lie back".  Not sure why Jack would say that because Ennis isn't really lying back - Jack is.  Could it be "lie down"?  Anyway, I can barely make out the "come on".  We all need to re-watch this scene with our headphones and re-group.  Now if they had had the lights up and had enunciated, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Ang Lee is a genius.  He's driving us all crazy. Agreed?
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Dec 28, 2006, 08:17 AM
Yes, we need more research.  I still don't hear "lie back".  Not sure why Jack would say that because Ennis isn't really lying back - Jack is.  Could it be "lie down"?  Anyway, I can barely make out the "come on".  We all need to re-watch this scene with our headphones and re-group.  Now if they had had the lights up and had enunciated, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Ang Lee is a genius.  He's driving us all crazy. Agreed?

Could he have said "lie back" the moment he flipped positions with Ennis so that he was on top?  I speculate because I myself had not heard this said, but I was not listening to carefully.  The music always washes over me.

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 28, 2006, 09:01 AM
Yes, we need more research.  I still don't hear "lie back".  Not sure why Jack would say that because Ennis isn't really lying back - Jack is.  Could it be "lie down"?  Anyway, I can barely make out the "come on".  We all need to re-watch this scene with our headphones and re-group.  Now if they had had the lights up and had enunciated, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Ang Lee is a genius.  He's driving us all crazy. Agreed?

Could he have said "lie back" the moment he flipped positions with Ennis so that he was on top?  I speculate because I myself had not heard this said, but I was not listening to carefully.  The music always washes over me.



Thanks, tpe.  That could be, but Del Mar Twist seems pretty confident that the sequence was - after "it's all right" then came, "lie back, come here/on" (I hear both).  I watched the movie again last night after I wrote that post & lie back could fit, as Ennis was on his side.  I still didn't hear it.   >:(
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Dec 28, 2006, 09:15 AM

I guess I would like to hear it, even though I don't.  ;)

In any case, it could be that the music masks a lot of the sotto voce dialog between the two.  One gets the sense of words exchanged, even though I don't hear a lot of it.

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: NoReins on Dec 28, 2006, 11:38 AM
I've just listened to it with headphones and I heard Jack say c'mere just before he kisses Ennis. Pretty sure it's then sorry...it's alright...it's alright and then another c'mere or maybe come on just before they lie back down. Don't hear lie back/down though....and I did watch half a dozen times, with the volume very loud :s)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Dec 28, 2006, 11:48 AM
Interesting, NoReins.  I also have never heard "lie back", although I must admit that the same goes with "c'mere".  But I never listened that carefully.

All this reminds me of the inaudible dialog exchanged during their first fishing trip together after the reunion trip up the mountains.  Without the screenplay, I would never have made the effort to listen carefully to the words exchanged here about beans and shooting a cayote.  I should check, but as far as the dialog in the SNIT is concerned, the screenplay is silent about this, no?  I would guess that the words exchanged were improvised by Jake Gyllenhaal, and would therefore not be documented.  Hence, the confusion as to what was exactly said...
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: NoReins on Dec 28, 2006, 11:54 AM
I think you're right, Thomas, about Jake having improvised. The only SNIT dialogue in the screenplay is Jack saying "it's alright...it's alright" so I think the rest was just Jake. And no-one ever asked him what he said, despite all those interviews ::) They should have let one of us have a go, huh? ;)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Dec 28, 2006, 12:11 PM
Yes, he could re-enact the SNIT with us anytime!  ;)

You're right.  Now I do recall that the screenplay only gives "it's alright...it's alright".  THis I hear distinctly enough -- or is it just because I expect to hear it?

Improvisation makes movie dialogs a bit more interesting!  We should create a separate thread just on such tidbits from the actors and the various scenes...  But I guess the implicit assumption is that the published screenplay was the one that was followed...
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: welshwitch on Dec 28, 2006, 12:49 PM
But there are lots of little deviations in the dialogue - I reckon there was a printed script which was chaged as they shot the movie, some of the improvized lines being included and some not. It makes sense that the ones where they're alone may include such lines - the was su[posedly only a cameraman in the tent with tehm, eg, and Ang looking at what was shot afterwards and during the editing process - but his first priority wouldn't be to correct the text that was going to be issued, would it?

If you've read anything about the transmission of Shakespeare's text, then nothing that happens in the way of distortions surprises you.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Dec 28, 2006, 03:40 PM
I think Ang may have even encouraged some deviation from the text. 
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 28, 2006, 08:02 PM
But there are lots of little deviations in the dialogue - I reckon there was a printed script which was changed as they shot the movie, some of the improvised lines being included and some not. It makes sense that the ones where they're alone may include such lines - the was su[posedly only a cameraman in the tent with tehm, eg, and Ang looking at what was shot afterwards and during the editing process - but his first priority wouldn't be to correct the text that was going to be issued, would it?

If you've read anything about the transmission of Shakespeare's text, then nothing that happens in the way of distortions surprises you.

I had read somewhere that Jake said Ang was pretty specific about most of his direction, but when it came to the love scenes, he let them have a little free rein.  I guess so.  Now if it's for the good of the group/forum, I would be happy to sacrifice and attempt to contact Jake to re-enact the scene.  I do live relatively near him.  >:D ;)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 28, 2006, 08:05 PM
I've just listened to it with headphones and I heard Jack say c'mere just before he kisses Ennis. Pretty sure it's then sorry...it's alright...it's alright and then another c'mere or maybe come on just before they lie back down. Don't hear lie back/down though....and I did watch half a dozen times, with the volume very loud :s)

NoReins - did you hear anything like "kiss me" just before he kisses Ennis?  It's almost just "ks me".  Listen again and let me know if you hear it. 
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: LuvJackNasty on Dec 28, 2006, 08:55 PM
I've just listened to it with headphones and I heard Jack say c'mere just before he kisses Ennis. Pretty sure it's then sorry...it's alright...it's alright and then another c'mere or maybe come on just before they lie back down. Don't hear lie back/down though....and I did watch half a dozen times, with the volume very loud :s)

That's pretty much what I heard- I used the headphones tonight and watched it a few times- Once I even closed my eyes to just listen and I can't hear kiss me or lie back. And yes NR they should have let one of us have a go at interviewing them  ;)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 28, 2006, 10:50 PM
That's pretty much what I heard- I used the headphones tonight and watched it a few times- Once I even closed my eyes to just listen and I can't hear kiss me or lie back. And yes NR they should have let one of us have a go at interviewing them  ;)

Interviewing them?  Or auditioning them? :-*

LJN:  Listen again with the headphones. Just right before he kisses Ennis, you should hear "...kiss me".  Or at least ".....iss me".  And - I still can't hear anything in the "shirts" scene & I've tried just like you said - I am persistent and it is on again tonight on HBO - I actually thought I heard the "Jack" once.  can't wait for the DVD. N.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: LuvJackNasty on Dec 28, 2006, 10:53 PM
Well one thing would lead to another  ^-^
I will try try again BBM Fan  O0 
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Dec 29, 2006, 08:19 AM
I had read somewhere that Jake said Ang was pretty specific about most of his direction, but when it came to the love scenes, he let them have a little free rein.  I guess so.  Now if it's for the good of the group/forum, I would be happy to sacrifice and attempt to contact Jake to re-enact the scene.  I do live relatively near him.  >:D ;)

I think Jake had mixed feeling about certain things regarding Ang's direction, but overall he appreciated the sensitivity of Ang's style. And as you implied, the SNIT certainly must have been one of the scenes where improvisation became necessary for want of more specific direction.

Take advantage of the close proximity. I assume you will be involved in the re-enactment?  ;)

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 29, 2006, 08:56 AM
I think Jake had mixed feeling about certain things regarding Ang's direction, but overall he appreciated the sensitivity of Ang's style. And as you implied, the SNIT certainly must have been one of the scenes where improvisation became necessary for want of more specific direction.

Take advantage of the close proximity. I assume you will be involved in the re-enactment?  ;)



tpe:  I agree with that. 

Involved?  Honey, I'd be orchestrating!  Seeing as how I'm old enough to be his mother,   :( I don't think the close proximity will help much. 
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: welshwitch on Dec 29, 2006, 09:04 AM
Rubbish! For all you know he may go for older women - or so I tell myself.

OK, OK, OT.

I've never managed to hear anything in the scene where Ennis finds the shirts but I can hear all these phrases in the SNIT with the exception of "Lie back".

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Dec 29, 2006, 09:42 AM
Months back, I did not believe it when someone said they heard "I'm sorry" said in this scene, but since then, I have reconsidered.  Why not?  I still discover bits of (improvised?) dialog that I missed...

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 29, 2006, 10:05 AM
Del Mar Twist - I agree with you now about Jack saying everything in the SNIT, But - Now more new information, at least for me.  This is the first i heard "lie back - come on", but i like it & have listened several more times - i can't quite make it out, but think you're right.  I, too, use headphones, but sometimes it's easier for me to hear if i just close my eyes and concentrate on them rather than the picture. 

I can turn down the background music, and my headphones are studio quality, so I hear the dialouge pretty well.

In the reunion scene - when Ennis started pushing Jack against the wall, it sounds like he said something.  Did you hear that?  And when he was pulling Jack off him just before he went upstairs, did you here Ennis say, "later"?  A couple people mentioned that, but i can't quite catch it. I thought my hearing was good in my "old age", but this is driving me crazy.  I appreciate your responses.

Have a good holiday.


BBM Fan

The Reunion Scene goes like this....

Ennis stands at the top of the stairs and says, "Jack F**ckin' Twist." Runs, and jumps down a few steps to get to Jack.

Jack and Ennis hug, and Jack says, "Son Of A Bitch."

Ennis grabs Jack moves him back as he says, "Come Here." The two kiss.

Once they stop, and give each other the wanting gazes and Eskimo kisses, Ennis lightly slaps the left side of Jack's face and whispers, "Hey."

I believe you've hit it exactly right DelMarTwist. Both in WHAT was said and WHY it was said. Those darn subtitle folks have confused it greatly with their visual placement of the words making it look like Ennis says "I'm sorry". I think you're right, Jack says it, and is sorry for being a little too forward with what is actually their FIRST kiss. I'm not sure Ennis was really prepared for a man-to-man kiss, but he came around pretty quick.

 :t)

I don't think Ennis came around quickly at all. Remember Ennis never initiated a kiss until the Reunion Scene.

What do you think Ennis thought was going to happen when he went to the tent after sitting by the fire and contemplating the situation? Do you think he thought maybe they would just talk about the FNIT or do you think he expected action? I've always felt this move by Ennis, getting up from the camp fire going to the tent, was the pivitol point in the film. If that hadn't happened, it would have been literally "A one shot thing", the rest of they story (as we know it) would not have evolved.

jackster

Well I think when Ennis said, "This is a one-shot thingwe got goin on here." he meant that the rest of the time they were up on Brokeback Mountain they can have sex, but once they come down, that's it.

Then you have Jack saying, "It's nobody's buisiness but ours." Which is Jack's way of assuring Ennis that no one will know, and it's like saying, "What happens in Mexico/Vegas, stays in Mexico/Vegas."

When Ennis was sitting outside of the tent that night he was nervous. This time he had to make the first move, there wasn't anymore getting drunk and waiting for Jack to grab his hand. If Ennis wanted anything to happen Jack made sure that Ennis would have to make the first move this time, that's why Jack was laying in the tent without his shirt on, so when Ennis walked in he knew what was going to happen, and knew he made the firt move this time.

Plus you have to keep in mind, that until that first night in the tent, Ennis was a virgin. He never had sex at all, so that night he gave Jak his virginity.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 29, 2006, 07:39 PM
I can turn down the background music, and my headphones are studio quality, so I hear the dialogue pretty well.

The Reunion Scene goes like this....

Ennis stands at the top of the stairs and says, "Jack F**ckin' Twist." Runs, and jumps down a few steps to get to Jack.

Jack and Ennis hug, and Jack says, "Son Of A Bitch."

Ennis grabs Jack moves him back as he says, "Come Here." The two kiss.

Once they stop, and give each other the wanting gazes and Eskimo kisses, Ennis lightly slaps the left side of Jack's face and whispers, "Hey."

 :t)

I don't think Ennis came around quickly at all. Remember Ennis never initiated a kiss until the Reunion Scene.

Well I think when Ennis said, "This is a one-shot thing we got goin on here." he meant that the rest of the time they were up on Brokeback Mountain they can have sex, but once they come down, that's it.

Then you have Jack saying, "It's nobody's business but ours." Which is Jack's way of assuring Ennis that no one will know, and it's like saying, "What happens in Mexico/Vegas, stays in Mexico/Vegas."

When Ennis was sitting outside of the tent that night he was nervous. This time he had to make the first move, there wasn't anymore getting drunk and waiting for Jack to grab his hand. If Ennis wanted anything to happen Jack made sure that Ennis would have to make the first move this time, that's why Jack was laying in the tent without his shirt on, so when Ennis walked in he knew what was going to happen, and knew he made the first move this time.

Plus you have to keep in mind, that until that first night in the tent, Ennis was a virgin. He never had sex at all, so that night he gave Jack his virginity.

Del Mar:  Why do you think he was a virgin?  I thought he was too, until I saw the FNIT scene.  It seemed in the FNIT he knew exactly what to do (once he got into it).  Now you're going to say that he'd learned that from watching movies, but to me, it all came too spontaneously for it to be his first time.  Watcha think?
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 29, 2006, 11:39 PM
Del Mar:  Why do you think he was a virgin?  I thought he was too, until I saw the FNIT scene. 

Before the first night in the tent, they were drinking and Jack was singing 'Water-Walking Jessus', and they got to talking about the Pentecost, and Jack said "Fellas like you and me, we march off to hell." Ennis replied with, "Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." To which Jack said "Hmm." and handed Ennis back the whiskey.

Ennis didn't have sex before marriage, so he wasn't a sinner. Not that he wouldn't of had it, like he said he just never had the opportunity to. Jack's "Hmm.", and him handing Ennis the whiskey is fortelling of what happens latter that night. 

It seemed in the FNIT he knew exactly what to do (once he got into it).  Now you're going to say that he'd learned that from watching movies, but to me, it all came too spontaneously for it to be his first time.  Watcha think?

It's a natural instinct. Animals aren't trained to have sex, they just know how to, and humans are the same way, we instinctively know what to do. Insert peg A into slot B. Annie Proulx said it in the short story, "Nothing he'd done before but no instruction manual needed." Plus he did grow up on ranches, so I'm sure he's saw a few animals going at it, and his brother, or his father could have told him about sex.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 30, 2006, 01:39 AM
Before the first night in the tent, they were drinking and Jack was singing 'Water-Walking Jesus', and they got to talking about the Pentecost, and Jack said "Fellas like you and me, we march off to hell." Ennis replied with, "Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity." To which Jack said "Hmm." and handed Ennis back the whiskey.

Ennis didn't have sex before marriage, so he wasn't a sinner. Not that he wouldn't of had it, like he said he just never had the opportunity to. Jack's "Hmm.", and him handing Ennis the whiskey is fortelling of what happens latter that night. 

It's a natural instinct. Animals aren't trained to have sex, they just know how to, and humans are the same way, we instinctively know what to do. Insert peg A into slot B. Annie Proulx said it in the short story, "Nothing he'd done before but no instruction manual needed." Plus he did grow up on ranches, so I'm sure he's saw a few animals going at it, and his brother, or his father could have told him about sex.


Del Mar:  You gave me quite a chuckle!  :8 Peg A - Slot B - I hadn't thought of it that way.    %&)

I guess I was thinking he meant he hadn't had sex with a man when he said he wasn't a sinner.  But I guess that's what we're talking about anyway.  I'm convinced!   :t)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: aintfoolin on Dec 30, 2006, 01:52 AM
Yep, when your raised on a farm, you quickly find out what goes where, but since they're defintly not farm animals, we won't go there. And who the hell brings instruction manuals to bed? Jack painted the picture very nicely for him by going down on all fours and saying "comon", He gave the "greenlight" and Ennis simply "crossed the street". ;) ;D :c)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 30, 2006, 02:03 AM
Yep, when your raised on a farm, you quickly find out what goes where, but since they're definitely not farm animals, we won't go there. And who the hell brings instruction manuals to bed? Jack painted the picture very nicely for him by going down on all fours and saying "common", He gave the "greenlight" and Ennis simply "crossed the street". ;) ;D :c)

Ok, you guys set me straight.  I'm looking pretty naive here, but I'm a city gal - what can I say.  ??? I really didn't think Ennis had been there before, but there was definitely nothing amateurish about his moves!  Who really DID make the first move on all 4's?  Ennis pushed his shoulder, Jack grabbed his arm.  They work well together, don't you think?  Sorry for being OT?
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: aintfoolin on Dec 30, 2006, 02:31 AM
The throwdown? It was just a natural turn of events I beleive.(no pun intended). By the time Jack went down I believe Ennis was already up dear. <^( ;) :c) :^^)There was no doubt what Jack wanted from him.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 30, 2006, 02:35 AM
The throwdown? It was just a natural turn of events I beleive.(no pun intended). By the time Jack went down I believe Ennis was already up dear. <^( ;) :c) :^^)There was no doubt what Jack wanted from him.

I always thought I could adequately express myself, but not compared to you, Aintfoolin.  I'm going to stop posting, I am really lookin'  ^*()   

You are too funny.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: aintfoolin on Dec 30, 2006, 03:10 AM
As a nightowl, (the job requirement) I won't get  ^otill morning.! :gnight:
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 30, 2006, 05:41 AM
I don't think Ennis came around quickly at all. Remember Ennis never initiated a kiss until the Reunion Scene.
What about the "morning after scene" (which may or may not be the morning after SNIT) when Aguirre spies them rolling on the ground? I've always felt that Ennis looked pretty certain as to what he wanted by that time even though he tries to hide it behind his hat. I've generally intrepreted the line "Ennis ran full throttle on all roads . . . ." to indicate that once things got going Ennis was pretty much an action figure and would want make things (either kissing or more serious stuff ;)) happen.

jackster
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 30, 2006, 06:05 AM
Well I think when Ennis said, "This is a one-shot thing we got goin on here." he meant that the rest of the time they were up on Brokeback Mountain they can have sex, but once they come down, that's it.

Then you have Jack saying, "It's nobody's buisiness but ours." Which is Jack's way of assuring Ennis that no one will know, and it's like saying, "What happens in Mexico/Vegas, stays in Mexico/Vegas."

Yeah, but of course in the SS it goes...
As it did go. They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and
snorting, no lack of noises, but saying not a goddam word except once Ennis said, "I'm not no queer," and Jack jumped in with "Me neither. A one shot thing. Nobody's business but ours."

So things are a little "twisted" with the two storylines here. I guess I'd always seen Ennis's contemplation by the fire as a "do I or don't I?" type of self questioning. He could think the FNIT was just two drunk boys having fun, but his action (or inaction) here would be deliberate and in his mind self-determining. But you may be changing my view of this from a "do I" to a "how do I?" type of contemplation.

jackster
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 30, 2006, 08:46 AM
What about the "morning after scene" (which may or may not be the morning after SNIT) when Aguirre spies them rolling on the ground? I've always felt that Ennis looked pretty certain as to what he wanted by that time even though he tries to hide it behind his hat. I've generally intrepreted the line "Ennis ran full throttle on all roads . . . ." to indicate that once things got going Ennis was pretty much an action figure and would want make things (either kissing or more serious stuff ;)) happen.

jackster

The original story, was a short story, which meant Annie Proulx had to skip some beats of the story, the movie filled in those beats. In the book, Ennis was ok with it the next morning, no riding away to contemplate what happened the night before, and no discussion about what they did until they were already having sex regularly.

The short story also contradicts itself by saying in the begining that Ennis' parents drove off, then later it says his farm folded when his parents died.

The hat scene doesn't show who kissed whom. Jack could have pulled Ennis into the kiss, like he did before that. But if you take the kisses we actually witnessed, and then Jack's face when he pulled way in the reunion scene, it fits. Jack realizes that it's not all him, it's not all in his head, that Ennis loves him too. The short story also says this, "Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held."
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 30, 2006, 08:55 AM
Yeah, but of course in the SS it goes...
As it did go. They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and
snorting, no lack of noises, but saying not a goddam word except once Ennis said, "I'm not no queer," and Jack jumped in with "Me neither. A one shot thing. Nobody's business but ours."

So things are a little "twisted" with the two storylines here. I guess I'd always seen Ennis's contemplation by the fire as a "do I or don't I?" type of self questioning. He could think the FNIT was just two drunk boys having fun, but his action (or inaction) here would be deliberate and in his mind self-determining. But you may be changing my view of this from a "do I" to a "how do I?" type of contemplation.

jackster

I see that as a major turning point for Ennis, he didn't walk into that tent that night Jack probably would have left him alone. Just by him staying at the camp that late Ennis made the choice to sleep here, but he still wasn't sure how to do it. By walking in there Ennis was speaking without words.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 30, 2006, 01:08 PM
The short story also contradicts itself by saying in the begining that Ennis' parents drove off, then later it says his farm folded when his parents died.
A bit OT but I've understood the SS progression here as: 1. They drove off the curve, 2. they died, 3. the ranch folded (eventually) after K.E. and his sister couldn't make a go of it.
jackster

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 30, 2006, 01:28 PM
I see that as a major turning point for Ennis, he didn't walk into that tent that night Jack probably would have left him alone. Just by him staying at the camp that late Ennis made the choice to sleep here, but he still wasn't sure how to do it. By walking in there Ennis was speaking without words.
Completely agree here. However, IMHO if Ennis is "running full throttle" I think once he's made this major decision (to go into Jack's tent and spend the night), from then on he's the one initiating the kissing and primarily running the show. I think this is one of the reasons he's so PO'd at having to leave early, and Jack's reaction to it, he's losing control of the situation and doesn't know what to do. Punching Jack is Ennis again "speaking without words" wishing he could kill his own love for Jack (doesn't work, as he finds out in the alley). This is real interesting reading your take on this scene D.M.T., you've obviously thought about it a lot.

jackster
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 30, 2006, 01:33 PM
Completely agree here. However, IMHO if Ennis is "running full throttle" I think once he's made this major decision (to go into Jack's tent and spend the night), from then on he's the one initiating the kissing and primarily running the show. I think this is one of the reasons he's so PO'd at having to leave early, and Jack's reaction to it, he's losing control of the situation and doesn't know what to do. Punching Jack is Ennis again "speaking without words" wishing he could kill his own love for Jack (doesn't work, as he finds out in the alley). This is real interesting reading your take on this scene D.M.T., you've obviously thought about it a lot.

jackster

Jackster:  Do you really think Ennis is "running the show" in the SNIT?  He definitely wanted something to happen & ultimately submitted to Jack, but Jack initiated the kissing.  Am I wrong?
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 30, 2006, 02:23 PM
Jackster:  Do you really think Ennis is "running the show" in the SNIT?  He definitely wanted something to happen & ultimately submitted to Jack, but Jack initiated the kissing.  Am I wrong?
No, your absolutly right. I guess I "misspoke" ^-^. I think he definetly needed some help and direction here which Jack's eager to give. I believe Ennis had decided he wanted this, he just didn't know HOW to make it happen (he hadn't had the "opportunity" i.e. experience). It was HIS decision to go to the tent however, if he hadn't Jack would've been left in there with just his yearning, I can't see him again yelling, "Ennis, . . . get over here"!. I think this is one reason this scene is so enchanting (and erotic), the back and forth play between an eager yet subservient Jack and a hesitant but assertive Ennis. Those boys -Heath/Jake really played it well! I do think that once Ennis saw how this could go (as it did go), and he had an idea of the relationship in his head, he expected it to go as he wanted and on his terms.
jackster
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Dec 30, 2006, 02:40 PM
No, your absolutely right. I guess I "misspoke" ^-^. I think he definitely needed some help and direction here which Jack's eager to give. I believe Ennis had decided he wanted this, he just didn't know HOW to make it happen (he hadn't had the "opportunity" i.e. experience). It was HIS decision to go to the tent however, if he hadn't Jack would've been left in there with just his yearning, I can't see him again yelling, "Ennis, . . . get over here"!. I think this is one reason this scene is so enchanting (and erotic), the back and forth play between an eager yet subservient Jack and a hesitant but assertive Ennis. Those boys -Heath/Jake really played it well! I do think that once Ennis saw how this could go (as it did go), and he had an idea of the relationship in his head, he expected it to go as he wanted and on his terms.
jackster

Jackster:  Finally.  I am right about something on this forum   :clap:  Usually everyone blasts me because I don't "get it".  Poor, tormented Ennis - but he sure was a fast learner!  You are so right about how Heath & Jake played it.  I wouldn't mind having a lesson or 2 from them.  Agreed?   :d)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 30, 2006, 04:08 PM
A bit OT but I've understood the SS progression here as: 1. They drove off the curve, 2. they died, 3. the ranch folded (eventually) after K.E. and his sister couldn't make a go of it.
jackster

"Ennis reared by his older brother and sister after their parents drove off the only curve on Dead Horse Road leaving them twenty-four dollars in cash and a two-mortgage ranch"

"Ennis's family place folded years ago after his folks died."

"Ennis, dredging up a rusty but still useable phrase from the childhood time before his mother died"

The first one says how his parents left him, and his siblings. Now the second two, esspecially the last one indicates that Ennis's mother was with him up until she died. Now if that last one read "before his mother left" then it would fit in the timeline, but to say "before his mother died" indicates she was with her children until she died, which we know she wasn't.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 30, 2006, 04:24 PM
Completely agree here. However, IMHO if Ennis is "running full throttle"

But see that is using the book's description of their love. Remember in the book Ennis turns Jack around and becomes the agressor, where in the movie, it's almost like a dance as Jack urns as Ennis turns him, it's mutual in the movie.
 
I think once he's made this major decision (to go into Jack's tent and spend the night), from then on he's the one initiating the kissing and primarily running the show.

I see it more as a reversal. During their first night, Jack made the initial move, then Ennis took more of the control. Their second night now, Ennis made the first move, and then Jack took control. I see the two scenes as them fitting together, becoming one, and to let us know that from that second night on they will be together equally.
 
I think this is one of the reasons he's so PO'd at having to leave early, and Jack's reaction to it, he's losing control of the situation and doesn't know what to do. Punching Jack is Ennis again "speaking without words" wishing he could kill his own love for Jack (doesn't work, as he finds out in the alley).

I agree. Ennis didn't want this to end, he realized he did love Jack, and this was their time. Remember Ennis was the one who set up the rules, that this was a "One-time thing". Ennis was afraid to leave their Eden, because he thought they wouldn't be able to be this happy once they left Brokeback. He wasn't prepared for this, not yet.

Ennis couldn't tell Jack he loved him, because he was raised to fear the feelings he had for Jack. One of the oldest forms of expression by men is to express our feelings through fighting. When we're little we pull the girl's hair we like. When we get into an argument with a friend or a brother we fight to work out those bottled up emotions, then we're ok. Ennis hitting Jack was just his way of working out anger, frustration, and showing Jack he loved him.

Ennis doubling over in pain is him coming to realize how much he loves Jack. I go into more depth about this scene in my fic on the Fic and Poems Forum here, it's called "Return To Brokeback Mountain", you should check it out I use scenes from the movie.
 
This is real interesting reading your take on this scene D.M.T., you've obviously thought about it a lot.

jackster

Thanks, and it's interesting to hear your takes also. I've seen this movie a lot in the last week, so yeah I've thought about it alot  ;D
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 30, 2006, 05:23 PM
Jackster:  You are so right about how Heath & Jake played it.  I wouldn't mind having a lesson or 2 from them.  Agreed?   :d)

YOU BET!
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 30, 2006, 05:38 PM
I go into more depth about this scene in my fic on the Fic and Poems Forum here, it's called "Return To Brokeback Mountain", you should check it out I use scenes from the movie.
 
I'll definitely check that out. OT- It is real interesting to me the way McMurtry and Ossana worked (or wrestled) that screenplay from the SS. Like keeping the "One shot thing" line but taking it from Jack and giving it to Ennis. That takes a lot of balls to do it, and brains to make it work. Brilliant.

Still have a hard time following your Ennis parents' timeline, but will study that.

jackster
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 30, 2006, 05:57 PM
I'll definitely check that out. OT-

OK let me no wht you think of it when you do ok.

It is real interesting to me the way McMurtry and Ossana worked (or wrestled) that screenplay from the SS. Like keeping the "One shot thing" line but taking it from Jack and giving it to Ennis. That takes a lot of balls to do it, and brains to make it work. Brilliant.

I think it worked better with Ennis saying it, and think it was a great move to make. What the movie did that the short story didn't is show a distinction between Ennis and Jack. Ennis was the quiet one, the realist, while Jack was the dreamer. So I think the line wouldn't working coming from the movie Jack.

Still have a hard time following your Ennis parents' timeline, but will study that.

jackster

The three excerpts are in the order they appear in the short story. The 3rd one says before his mother died, that indicates that up until she died, she was with Ennis, but the 1st clearly says both parents left the three kids. The proper way to write that would have been to say before his mother left him.

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Dec 31, 2006, 03:21 AM
The three excerpts are in the order they appear in the short story. The 3rd one says before his mother died, that indicates that up until she died, she was with Ennis, but the 1st clearly says both parents left the three kids. The proper way to write that would have been to say before his mother left him.

I’m no English major so I’m really out of my league here, but the sequence and wording Proulx laid out still makes perfect sense to me as a narrative. 1. They drove off the road, were killed and  “left” (departed) their children by way of death (at the same time they also “left” them $24 by inheritance). Ennis was 14 (1958) or less at the time. 2. When Ennis was 19 (1963) he says the Del Mar Ranch folded years ago (say, ca 1960), two years after his folks died. 3. Finally, in the Dozy Embrace he dredges up the childhood phrase from sometime before 1958 when his mother (and father) died. Seems to me that to have written “before his mother left” here would imply that she intentionally abandoned the children rather than being “taken by death”. You're not seeing this as a suicide are you? In any case you may be reading above my pay level here!
jackster
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Del Mar Twist on Dec 31, 2006, 09:25 AM
I'm no English major so I'm really out of my league here, but the sequence and wording Proulx laid out still makes perfect sense to me as a narrative. 1. They drove off the road, were killed and “left” (departed) their children by way of death (at the same time they also “left” them $24 by inheritance). Ennis was 14 (1958) or less at the time. 2. When Ennis was 19 (1963) he says the Del Mar Ranch folded years ago (say, ca 1960), two years after his folks died. 3. Finally, in the Dozy Embrace he dredges up the childhood phrase from sometime before 1958 when his mother (and father) died. Seems to me that to have written “before his mother left” here would imply that she intentionally abandoned the children rather than being “taken by death”. You're not seeing this as a suicide are you? In any case you may be reading above my pay level here!
jackster


Actually, I never thought of it as suicide or an accident. It could be taken as such.

I think the first excerpt from the book could be taken either way, and I'm just letting how Ennis told it in the movie cloud my interpretation of it.

SHORT STORY
"Ennis reared by his older brother and sister after their parents drove off the only curve on Dead Horse Road leaving them twenty-four dollars in cash and a two-mortgage ranch"

MOVIE
"No, they run themselves off. There was... one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch... and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly."

The story says they took the only curve, where in the movie Ennis says they missed it. I think I'm letting the way it's stated in the movie influence the way I read it in the book.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: welshwitch on Dec 31, 2006, 02:04 PM
Could we possibly get back to the subject of the thread now?

There is a thread for the timeline of the movie elsewhere.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Twisted on Jan 13, 2007, 04:29 AM
I hear Jack saying all this:

Kiss.

I'm sorry, it's allright, it's allright.

Come here, lay down.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: NoReins on Jan 13, 2007, 04:55 AM
I don't hear Jack saying anything like "kiss", nor do I hear the "lay down" but apart from those, I hear what Twisted hears.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Twisted on Jan 13, 2007, 11:30 AM
Oh the kiss is only the kiss what they make, after they kiss, I hear those what I wrote :) :)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: NoReins on Jan 13, 2007, 06:32 PM
Oh the kiss is only the kiss what they make, after they kiss, I hear those what I wrote :) :)

D'oh %&)

Sorry, Twisted - I think I was having a stupid moment there ;D
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: lauren on Jan 14, 2007, 11:48 PM
strange...after the kiss, all i heard was jack saying 'it's alright'. other than that, i can't hear anything else. i'm starting to wonder if there are different versions of the movie...  ;D
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Jan 15, 2007, 03:32 AM
strange...after the kiss, all i heard was jack saying 'it's alright'. other than that, i can't hear anything else. i'm starting to wonder if there are different versions of the movie...  ;D

lauren:  It's very difficult to hear because you can't really see their lips moving, they speak softly, & the music gets louder.  If you have headphones, try using them, & turn the sound up loud.  That's the way I first heard all the words - after you hear them once or twice, it's easier.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jacks_key on Jan 15, 2007, 09:08 AM
OT, but I have to say that I am really enjoying reading everyone's interpretations of these scenes.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Dasha on Nov 21, 2007, 02:01 PM
i'm starting to wonder if there are different versions of the movie...  ;D

lol this came to mi mind too..

I can hear It's allright twice or once.. probably twice.. and then come here.. just before Jack kisses Ennis.. you can see Jack's lips moving.. but later I can't hear lay back or come here ? maybe because when they say it there is the guitar and it's very loud exactly in the moment where I think he could be saying it.. and I used my headphones..

Del Mar Twist: Wow I was enjoying and wondering while reading your replies :O but of others too :P God .. how can you turn down the background sound?  :\'( :\'( :\'(
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Emzan on Nov 28, 2007, 09:22 AM
I'm watching it right now and Jack says:  come here and then they kiss and then he says I'm sorry and then it's alright twice ::)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Nov 28, 2007, 09:28 AM
I'm watching it right now and Jack says:  come here and then they kiss and then he says I'm sorry and then it's alright twice ::)

Emzan, you also hear "it's alright", no?

Welcome.  :)

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Emzan on Nov 28, 2007, 12:59 PM
Emzan, you also hear "it's alright", no?

Welcome.  :)



yes I did :)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Nov 28, 2007, 07:24 PM
yes I did :)

I still get confused as to whether Jack or Ennis was the one who was saying sorry, quite frankly.  I will defer to your statement in this matter. :)

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Emzan on Nov 29, 2007, 09:43 AM
I still get confused as to whether Jack or Ennis was the one who was saying sorry, quite frankly.  I will defer to your statement in this matter. :)



You can't really see Jack or Ennis move their lips, but thats because the camera is filming Ennis when you can hear "I'm sorry" so I guess that Jack says that ;D, but you can say "I'm sorry" when you're lips don't move, try :P

Maybe that was confusing and sorry for my bad English  ::)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Nov 29, 2007, 10:58 AM
You can't really see Jack or Ennis move their lips, but thats because the camera is filming Ennis when you can hear "I'm sorry" so I guess that Jack says that ;D, but you can say "I'm sorry" when you're lips don't move, try :P

Maybe that was confusing and sorry for my bad English  ::)

OT: your English is FAR from bad.  :)

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Emzan on Nov 29, 2007, 11:18 AM
OT: your English is FAR from bad.  :)



 :t)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Nov 29, 2007, 05:58 PM
I still get confused as to whether Jack or Ennis was the one who was saying sorry, quite frankly. 

Me too. One of the great beauties of this masterpiece . . . either one could have said it, and it still works, either way.

And thanks to Heath and Jake most of the communication here was beautifully non-verbal.  <^(
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Nov 30, 2007, 09:32 AM
Me too. One of the great beauties of this masterpiece . . . either one could have said it, and it still works, either way.

And thanks to Heath and Jake most of the communication here was beautifully non-verbal.  <^(

Indeed, it was much more powerful that way.

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Halenfarewell on Feb 07, 2008, 11:40 PM
I have wondered about this as well but only heard Jack say "It's alright" several times.
Ann
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Feb 08, 2008, 08:22 AM
I have wondered about this as well but only heard Jack say "It's alright" several times.
Ann

This was how it was for me also...

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: lauren on Feb 10, 2008, 02:03 PM
This was how it was for me also...



jack said "its alright"? I don't think i heard that....
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: trekfan on Feb 10, 2008, 02:59 PM
I think Jack knew he was trying to quell Ennis' fears so he said it's alright, etc.

I have wanted to know who said "I'm sorry"  just before they kiss SNIT.    It's supposed to be Ennis but I think I hear Jack say it. 

(then later someone said they heard Ennis say "I Love you" when he is clutching he shirts to his chest.) 

I wish the sound people had been more definitive when they recorded the dialog
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: babytammy7 on Feb 10, 2008, 03:09 PM
Ennis: I’m sorry….

Jack: Sssch, It’s all right, It’s all right…..

Jack: Come here….Lie down….


 <^(  <^(  <^(  <^(

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: myprivatejack on Feb 10, 2008, 04:20 PM


It's just the same you said,dear Tammy,but Ennis repites "I'm sorry" twice,almost in a whisper... <^(

Ah¡ *o)  at last,I heard the "I love you" in the closet scene,after having put the baffler's volume at the maximum and having received the visit of my first flat neighbours-I live in a 8 th flat-,complaining for the noise. ;D
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: BBM Fan on Feb 16, 2008, 12:11 AM
I think Jack knew he was trying to quell Ennis' fears so he said it's alright, etc.

I have wanted to know who said "I'm sorry"  just before they kiss SNIT.    It's supposed to be Ennis but I think I hear Jack say it. 

(then later someone said they heard Ennis say "I Love you" when he is clutching he shirts to his chest.) 

I wish the sound people had been more definitive when they recorded the dialog

i think they played the music loud on purpose - so there would be a mystery as to what was said & by whom.  I think Jack said the I'm sorrys.  You can see Ennis' face and his lips don't move.  You see Jack from the side so it's unclear if his lips move or not.  But we'll probably never know the truth - Ang's not talking   >:(
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: B_Mountain_Girl on Mar 06, 2008, 06:14 PM
I've watched the movie maybe 100 times... yeah I know, almost everyday.

The dialog I hear is:

Ready to kiss Ennis, Jack very softly (whisper) said: come, come on, come-on (imploring)
They kissed... then Jack said 3 times: it’s all right

IMO there is no… “I’m sorry” in the scene.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Matt Nasty on Mar 06, 2008, 07:14 PM
i checked with subtitles in the scene ennis says sorry and jack says its alright, its alright some one has probably already said this before me but oh well
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Lis on Mar 06, 2008, 10:09 PM

I've seen this topic before and checked myself to see who says what and I can hear carely Jack saying 'I'm so sorry' twice as well as 'it's alright' twice or once, sometimes it changes as I watch it again...though IMO, I don't hear Ennis say much of anything, to me, he's just looking into Jack's eyes...waiting for the kiss
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: welshwitch on Mar 07, 2008, 01:17 AM
IMO said, or rather almost whispered, in an American accent,with the slurring of sharp consonants that sometimes involves, "I'm sorry" and "It's all right" can sound very similar - again, try it.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Mar 07, 2008, 08:23 AM
I can tell whut is being said best with sound turned off . . .

It's spelled . . . . L.O.V.E.

 O0  >:D  <^(
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Matt Nasty on Mar 07, 2008, 11:39 AM
I can tell whut is being said best with sound turned off . . .

It's spelled . . . . L.O.V.E.

 O0  >:D  <^(


nice post so true  ;D
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: chameau on Mar 07, 2008, 11:45 AM
Back to topic, if you put the subtitles on:

Ennis:  I'm sorry (tough I'm not sure her really said it)

Jack:  It's alright, it's alright.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Matt Nasty on Mar 07, 2008, 11:47 AM
Back to topic, if you put the subtitles on:

Ennis:  I'm sorry (tough I'm not sure her really said it)

Jack:  It's alright, it's alright.


i also watched this bit with subs and ennis does say "im sorry" he just mumbles a little you know average ennis :)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Mar 07, 2008, 02:28 PM
As we know the subtitle folks miss-cued several more obvious lines of dialog elsewhere in the film.
Back in post #28 Del Mar Twist said:
Here is what Jack says.
  I'm Sorry.
  It's All Right.
  It's All Right.
  Lie Back. Come On.

 I take the "I'm Sorry" being about the kiss since Ennis was pulling away and turning his head slightly, but Jack kissed him, then he said "It's All Right. It's All Right." and he shook his head when he knew Ennis was all right with it. Then as he pulls Ennis onto his chest and lays back down he says, "Lie Back. Come On."

I believe DelMarTwist hit it exactly right here. Both in WHAT was said and WHY it was said. IMO Those darn subtitle folks have confused it greatly with their visual placement of the words making it look like Ennis says "I'm sorry". I think DMT is right, Jack says I'm Sorry, and he is sorry for being a little too forward with what is actually their FIRST kiss. I'm not sure Ennis was really prepared for a man-to-man kiss, but he came around pretty quick. JMHO.

Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Emzan on Mar 07, 2008, 02:48 PM
Maybe you're right jackster but I have to listen to it again.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: babytammy7 on Mar 07, 2008, 03:52 PM
Back to topic, if you put the subtitles on:

Ennis:  I'm sorry (tough I'm not sure her really said it)

Jack:  It's alright, it's alright.

I don't know Jackster....I've always thought that It was like Cham wrote here. Also in Spanish Ennis says "I'm sorry". I think Ennis says that cause it was him who went out to the sheep without give Jack a word, and it was Ennis who said that it was a one shot deal and he was not queer. After being hard with Jack and saying to him that he wanted not more of "that", he went to the tend again looking for more so he apologized for his previous behaviour and the things (one shot deal and not queer) he said before. Then Jack said to him "It's alright", trying to make clear that it doesn't matter anymore.

Still you got me confused with that "Lie back. Come on" cause I thought it was "Come here. Lie down". At least I heard that in the film and I read brokies saying that too. Mmmm.....  :s)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: myprivatejack on Mar 07, 2008, 04:28 PM
I don't know Jackster....I've always thought that i was like Cham wrote here. Also in Spanish Ennis says "I'm sorry". I think Ennis says that cause it was him who went out to the sheep without give Jack a word, and it was Ennis who said that it was a one shot deal and he was not queer. After being hard with Jack and saying to him that he wanted not more of "that", he went to the tend again looking for more so he apologized for his previous behaviour and the things (one shot deal and not queer) he said before. Then Jack said to him "It's alright", trying to make clear that it doesn't matter anymore.

Still you got me confused with that "Lie back. Come on" cause I thought it was "Come here. Lie down". At least I heard that in the film and I read brokies saying that too. Mmmm.....  :s)

I agree with you,Tammy.As a matter of fact,it's Ennis who had more reasons to apologise than Jack;for the ones you quote in your post-his roughness with Jack and his denial in having more nights like that...-.But also,IMO,for having been too wild in their first night together,when it's sure that Jack wanted some more "foreplay" between them than the rough sex Ennis gave him.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: babytammy7 on Mar 07, 2008, 04:38 PM
I agree with you too!!  ;D  ;D

Ennis was so rough and wild with Jack that first night; one more reason to say sorry. He was like an animal, you know (not that Jack was complaining but it hurts I guess).

And, like I said before, you can't say " I want no more of this. That is not going to happen again", and then you go for it. It's not normal that you have rejected someone and then later you look for that person to be with. I can see here why he said I'm sorry.

Jackster, do you see what Ali and I are trying to say? What do you think? We want to know.  ^f^
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: jackster on Mar 07, 2008, 07:38 PM
Jackster, do you see what Ali and I are trying to say? What do you think? We want to know. 

Gosh, now you really put me on the spot. Yes, of course, I do see what you’re saying and it makes perfect sense. The great beauty of BBM is the way Ang allowed us all “into” the film, we all see in it what we want, how we want it. This is what makes truly great art, and why this film is GREAT art. We are ALL correct, it works magically and beautifully every way you slice it, huh?

My only real point was to say that the subtitle folks are notorious, along with foreign language dubbers, at making grievous text and dialogue errors. Just ask Cham what he thinks about the French language version of BBM. They are not artists, they have a job. To be honest in listening to this scene with all kinds of headphones, and recently even the HD DVD version, I still can’t tell, it works both ways. Hope you don’t think this is a cop out; to me it’s just beautiful both ways.
 O0
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Matt Nasty on Mar 07, 2008, 08:15 PM
hmmm good points everyone ,
personally i beleive ennis' sorry was for mulitple reasons one for saying not a word to jack the morning after FNIT also for for the way he reacted at the start of FNIT and also probably many other of his actions that were less than fair to jack.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: B_Mountain_Girl on Mar 07, 2008, 08:52 PM
Now you make me watch this movie another 100 times. Reading what you all said confuses me even more.
Some of those words I never heard, and there are words I've heard and no one talks about. 

I've never watch another movie so many times in my life, but I won't give up.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Matt Nasty on Mar 07, 2008, 08:57 PM
Now you make me watch this movie another 100 times. Reading what you all said confuses me even more.
Some of those words I never heard, and there are words I've heard and no one talks about. 

I've never watch another movie so many times in my life, but I won't give up.

thats the spirit B_mountain_girl its nice to see an enthusiastic new brokie well im relativly new here myself but you know... lol
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: aintfoolin on Mar 07, 2008, 10:02 PM
Ennis says "I'm sorry twice, Jack says "it's alright twice and "comon or comere" as they lay back. You can hear so much more with headphones on.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: B_Mountain_Girl on Mar 07, 2008, 10:27 PM
Ennis says "I'm sorry twice, Jack says "it's alright twice and "comon or comere" as they lay back. You can hear so much more with headphones on.

That's what I am talking about, because I listen to headphones, I've heard "comon or comere" before they kiss so many times.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Matt Nasty on Mar 08, 2008, 06:43 AM
Ennis says "I'm sorry twice, Jack says "it's alright twice and "comon or comere" as they lay back. You can hear so much more with headphones on.
yer this is right but also after jack says "comon/comere" he also says "lie back".
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: babytammy7 on Mar 08, 2008, 11:27 AM
Gosh, now you really put me on the spot. Yes, of course, I do see what you’re saying and it makes perfect sense. The great beauty of BBM is the way Ang allowed us all “into” the film, we all see in it what we want, how we want it. This is what makes truly great art, and why this film is GREAT art. We are ALL correct, it works magically and beautifully every way you slice it, huh?

My only real point was to say that the subtitle folks are notorious, along with foreign language dubbers, at making grievous text and dialogue errors. Just ask Cham what he thinks about the French language version of BBM. They are not artists, they have a job. To be honest in listening to this scene with all kinds of headphones, and recently even the HD DVD version, I still can’t tell, it works both ways. Hope you don’t think this is a cop out; to me it’s just beautiful both ways.
 O0

Thanks for your reply Jackster!!  ^f^

I know what Cham think about the french version!!  ;D  ;D  But tell you what, the Spanish version is identical to the original version, word by word, except (one huge stunning mistake  ^*)  ^*)  ^*) ) the "Jack, I swear".

And yeah, sweetie, it's so beautiful both ways, in fact I don't mind who say what in that scene. The important thing there are the glances, the kisses, the caresses, THE LOVE between them.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: Matt Nasty on Mar 08, 2008, 11:37 AM
Thanks for your reply Jackster!!  ^f^

I know what Cham think about the french version!!  ;D  ;D  But tell you what, the Spanish version is identical to the original version, word by word, except (one huge stunning mistake  ^*)  ^*)  ^*) ) the "Jack, I swear".

And yeah, sweetie, it's so beautiful both ways, in fact I don't mind who say what in that scene. The important thing there are the glances, the kisses, the caresses, THE LOVE between them.

well said :)
what did they change "jack, i swear" too?? that is a really bad bit to change
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: chameau on Mar 08, 2008, 01:57 PM
 *o)

Guys could you please come back to the subject of the topic please?
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: desperatehousewife on Jun 26, 2008, 02:57 PM
Being new to this, I've enjoyed reading this thread.  Whilst I know it really doesn't matter what they said, it's lovely watching it over and over again trying to figure it out.  And I agree with what I read somewhere on this forum, that Ang Lee may have done this intentionally, letting us all give it our own interpretation. 
The great thing about watching these clips so many times, is that you often see or hear something new.  I really thought this scene couldn't get any sexier, but what I hear Jack saying (and the volume needs to be LOUD) just sends this scene off the scale as far as I'm concerned. 

For the record, this is what I hear:

As Jack is going towards Ennis for the kiss he whispers "Come on"   (oh my, oh my....)

As Jack starts to kiss Ennis he says in a kind of breathy exhalation "Go on, go on"  (oh my, oh my, oh my.....)

After the kiss he says "it's allright" three times.  (Oooohhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyy.........................)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: desperatehousewife on Jun 26, 2008, 03:23 PM
Being new to this, I've enjoyed reading this thread.  Whilst I know it really doesn't matter what they said, it's lovely watching it over and over again trying to figure it out.  And I agree with what I read somewhere on this forum, that Ang Lee may have done this intentionally, letting us all give it our own interpretation. 
The great thing about watching these clips so many times, is that you often see or hear something new.  I really thought this scene couldn't get any sexier, but what I hear Jack saying (and the volume needs to be LOUD) just sends this scene off the scale as far as I'm concerned. 

For the record, this is what I hear:

As Jack is going towards Ennis for the kiss he whispers "Come on"   (oh my, oh my....)

As Jack starts to kiss Ennis he says in a kind of breathy exhalation "Go on, go on"  (oh my, oh my, oh my.....)

After the kiss he says "it's allright" three times.  (Oooohhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyy.........................)


Just watched and listened again, and I also heard him say "lie with me" as they lay down - oh it just gets better and better!!
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: tpe on Jun 27, 2008, 07:35 AM
Being new to this, I've enjoyed reading this thread.  Whilst I know it really doesn't matter what they said, it's lovely watching it over and over again trying to figure it out.  And I agree with what I read somewhere on this forum, that Ang Lee may have done this intentionally, letting us all give it our own interpretation. 
The great thing about watching these clips so many times, is that you often see or hear something new.  I really thought this scene couldn't get any sexier, but what I hear Jack saying (and the volume needs to be LOUD) just sends this scene off the scale as far as I'm concerned. 

For the record, this is what I hear:

As Jack is going towards Ennis for the kiss he whispers "Come on"   (oh my, oh my....)

As Jack starts to kiss Ennis he says in a kind of breathy exhalation "Go on, go on"  (oh my, oh my, oh my.....)

After the kiss he says "it's allright" three times.  (Oooohhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyy.........................)


Thnaks for sharing your opinion on this one, desperatehousewife!    I perfectly agree with what you say about watching things over and over again, and the part about Ang Lee doing certain things intentionally.  And I agree that many of us still continue to "discover" new things after watching this so many times. :)



Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: sportstalk23 on Jun 30, 2008, 10:57 AM
after turning the sound up so loud I believe that dolphins now know what was said in that tent ;) for some reason I thought it was just Ennis saying sorry but it almost sounds like Im hearing each of them say sorry although I'm more keen to lean towards it being Ennis since how he treated Jack and the "morning after" and the  one shot deal, I aint queer convo because he took is time going into the tent with Jack patiently waiting somehow knowing that Ennis would go in but after what he said to Jack he couldnt just go in there as if the morning after never happened thats why I believe he needed to say apologize
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: smartestsonia on Sep 21, 2008, 05:43 AM
I hear Jack saying "Can I kiss you?" before he does, but no-one else has ever mentioned this - nevertheless, I hear it.


I have heard the "sorry" and "its alright"

i have honestly not observed the " come here. can I kiss u?"..I love those lines though and i hope they were said....will check it tonight

I am not sure if it is true...although i hope it is..dam sweet ya...
 :)
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: smartestsonia on Sep 21, 2008, 05:49 AM
Yes, I do think he said 'its alright'

But you have said its meaning most beautifully: 'its ok to love me.'


I agree....it is indeed said beautifully
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: atalley on Sep 21, 2008, 08:18 PM
At full volume I hear Ennis saying "I'm sorry".  Then Jack says "it's alright, it's alright".  I can't tell if Jack says anything else or not.
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: myprivatejack on Sep 22, 2008, 10:56 AM
At a so high volume thst now I'm already a little deaf,I could hear:

-Ennis: I'm sorry,I'm sorry...

-Jack: It's allright,it's allright...Come here,lay down...

More or less; my English skills don't allow me understand someone shouting,so imagine what happens with so many whispers... :i
Title: Re: What did Jack/Ennis say in 2nd tent scene?
Post by: smartestsonia on Sep 23, 2008, 01:59 AM
Hey brokies.....I am able to hear only "sorry" from Ennis and "its alright " from Jack..
I am watching these scenes on youtube.com and dont have the DVD of the movie yet to have a better volume quality..

Does Jack say "Can I kiss u? or "lie back" or "come on"..
on youtube its really not clear to me
Any suggestions of hearing it on a good link????