Author Topic: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack  (Read 165743 times)

Offline hpv

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #60 on: Jun 19, 2006, 12:50 PM »
I hadn't seen this thread before, thanks to everyone for all your brilliantly expressed thoughts :) I find this scene so difficult to watch sometimes (like the scene with the shirts) Heath's performance is so powerful, especially when he bangs the wall, and then lets out that heartbreaking sob, it feels almost wrong to be watching, like intruding on his private expression of grief, but at the same time, it's so compelling, it's impossible not to watch :\'(



Beautify expressed thank you so much CrimsonSky
I to feel like that,as  peeping through a keyhole...so I understand Ennis when he bursts at the intruder for watching him.
"What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close,the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."
"I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."

Offline CrimsonSky

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #61 on: Jun 19, 2006, 05:09 PM »
I hadn't seen this thread before, thanks to everyone for all your brilliantly expressed thoughts :) I find this scene so difficult to watch sometimes (like the scene with the shirts) Heath's performance is so powerful, especially when he bangs the wall, and then lets out that heartbreaking sob, it feels almost wrong to be watching, like intruding on his private expression of grief, but at the same time, it's so compelling, it's impossible not to watch :\'(



Beautify expressed thank you so much CrimsonSky
I to feel like that,as  peeping through a keyhole...so I understand Ennis when he bursts at the intruder for watching him.

Thank you,hpv, "peeping through a keyhole", you've summed it up perfectly.The way the scene is shot, it's like watching him from the other end of the alleyway, so when he shouts at the intruder, I feel like I have to look away myself. Breaks my heart, every time :\'(
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline City Slickin' Cowboy

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #62 on: Jun 19, 2006, 07:13 PM »
I hadn't seen this thread before, thanks to everyone for all your brilliantly expressed thoughts :) I find this scene so difficult to watch sometimes (like the scene with the shirts) Heath's performance is so powerful, especially when he bangs the wall, and then lets out that heartbreaking sob, it feels almost wrong to be watching, like intruding on his private expression of grief, but at the same time, it's so compelling, it's impossible not to watch :'(

I hadn't visited this thread before also.  This scene gets to me everytime.  What get's me in addition to his heart-breaking sob is finding out that, according to the short story, Ennis wasn't immediately sure what brought this about.  At first I found this hard to believe.  Once I began to really understand the deeply reserved nature of Ennis's emotions, this scene made perfect sense to me.  If this had been Jack breaking down in the alley, he would have known right then and there it was the loss of Ennis he was crying over. This deeper understanding of Ennis makes this scene all the more heartbreaking to watch.  I too feel as though I am intruding on a private moment that should be expressed alone. :'(
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Offline ksxks

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #63 on: Jun 19, 2006, 10:35 PM »
I hadn't seen this thread before, thanks to everyone for all your brilliantly expressed thoughts :) I find this scene so difficult to watch sometimes (like the scene with the shirts) Heath's performance is so powerful, especially when he bangs the wall, and then lets out that heartbreaking sob, it feels almost wrong to be watching, like intruding on his private expression of grief, but at the same time, it's so compelling, it's impossible not to watch :\'(

OT, I was doing the washing up yesterday and the Beatles song "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" came on the radio, and I immediately thought of this scene.
Here I stand, head in hand, turn my face to the wall
If (s)he's gone I can't go on
Feeling two foot small
Everywhere,people stare
Each and every day
I can feel them laugh at me
Then I hear them say
Hey, you've got to hide your love away

Brought tears to my eyes just picturing the scene :\'(

Oh, this about makes me cry -- beautiful words, and so apt.  I wonder who Paul and/or John were thinking about when they wrote this -- who has to hide their love away except someone in love with someone where it's not acceptable to be...

kathy
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Offline frances

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #64 on: Jun 20, 2006, 01:16 AM »
I hadn't seen this thread before, thanks to everyone for all your brilliantly expressed thoughts :) I find this scene so difficult to watch sometimes (like the scene with the shirts) Heath's performance is so powerful, especially when he bangs the wall, and then lets out that heartbreaking sob, it feels almost wrong to be watching, like intruding on his private expression of grief, but at the same time, it's so compelling, it's impossible not to watch :\'(

OT, I was doing the washing up yesterday and the Beatles song "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" came on the radio, and I immediately thought of this scene.
Here I stand, head in hand, turn my face to the wall
If (s)he's gone I can't go on
Feeling two foot small
Everywhere,people stare
Each and every day
I can feel them laugh at me
Then I hear them say
Hey, you've got to hide your love away

Brought tears to my eyes just picturing the scene :\'(

Oh, this about makes me cry -- beautiful words, and so apt.  I wonder who Paul and/or John were thinking about when they wrote this -- who has to hide their love away except someone in love with someone where it's not acceptable to be...

kathy


Just perfect, CrimsonSky

The song was written by John and dedicated to Beatles'manager Brian Epstein, always a loner, and confused and ashamed of his homosexuality

My candle burns at both ends / It will not last the night / But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends / It gives a lovely light (Edna St. Vincent Millay)

Offline welshwitch

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #65 on: Jun 20, 2006, 03:05 AM »
It's strange that Ennis expresses what he can't articulate by hitting the wall repetitively, and Jack does the same thing during the FNIT, though I think Jack knows what's happening, he's just not in a state to say anything, and Ennis has no idea. Ennis reminds me of whoever it was who went on about "known knowns, and known unknowns and unknown unknowns" - Ennis's mind is full of unknown unknowns, which he doesn't even want to have there, much less come to undrstand.

Offline CrimsonSky

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #66 on: Jun 20, 2006, 08:39 AM »
I hadn't seen this thread before, thanks to everyone for all your brilliantly expressed thoughts :) I find this scene so difficult to watch sometimes (like the scene with the shirts) Heath's performance is so powerful, especially when he bangs the wall, and then lets out that heartbreaking sob, it feels almost wrong to be watching, like intruding on his private expression of grief, but at the same time, it's so compelling, it's impossible not to watch :\'(

OT, I was doing the washing up yesterday and the Beatles song "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" came on the radio, and I immediately thought of this scene.
Here I stand, head in hand, turn my face to the wall
If (s)he's gone I can't go on
Feeling two foot small
Everywhere,people stare
Each and every day
I can feel them laugh at me
Then I hear them say
Hey, you've got to hide your love away

Brought tears to my eyes just picturing the scene :\'(

Oh, this about makes me cry -- beautiful words, and so apt.  I wonder who Paul and/or John were thinking about when they wrote this -- who has to hide their love away except someone in love with someone where it's not acceptable to be...

kathy


Just perfect, CrimsonSky

The song was written by John and dedicated to Beatles'manager Brian Epstein, always a loner, and confused and ashamed of his homosexuality



Thanks frances and kathy, glad I'm not alone in liking the song and seeing the connection to Ennis. I posted the whole lyrics, and mentioned about Brian Epstein, in the Songs That Remind You Of BBM thread :)
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #67 on: Jun 20, 2006, 08:43 AM »
I hadn't seen this thread before, thanks to everyone for all your brilliantly expressed thoughts :) I find this scene so difficult to watch sometimes (like the scene with the shirts) Heath's performance is so powerful, especially when he bangs the wall, and then lets out that heartbreaking sob, it feels almost wrong to be watching, like intruding on his private expression of grief, but at the same time, it's so compelling, it's impossible not to watch :\'(

OT, I was doing the washing up yesterday and the Beatles song "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" came on the radio, and I immediately thought of this scene.
Here I stand, head in hand, turn my face to the wall
If (s)he's gone I can't go on
Feeling two foot small
Everywhere,people stare
Each and every day
I can feel them laugh at me
Then I hear them say
Hey, you've got to hide your love away

Brought tears to my eyes just picturing the scene :\'(

Oh, this about makes me cry -- beautiful words, and so apt.  I wonder who Paul and/or John were thinking about when they wrote this -- who has to hide their love away except someone in love with someone where it's not acceptable to be...

kathy


Just perfect, CrimsonSky

The song was written by John and dedicated to Beatles'manager Brian Epstein, always a loner, and confused and ashamed of his homosexuality



Thanks frances and kathy, glad I'm not alone in liking the song and seeing the connection to Ennis. I posted the whole lyrics, and mentioned about Brian Epstein, in the Songs That Remind You Of BBM thread :)


Thanks all.  This is a beautiful exchange.  Wonderful insights, so fitting to the scene under discussion...


Offline ksxks

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #68 on: Jun 20, 2006, 03:11 PM »
I hadn't seen this thread before, thanks to everyone for all your brilliantly expressed thoughts :) I find this scene so difficult to watch sometimes (like the scene with the shirts) Heath's performance is so powerful, especially when he bangs the wall, and then lets out that heartbreaking sob, it feels almost wrong to be watching, like intruding on his private expression of grief, but at the same time, it's so compelling, it's impossible not to watch :\'(

OT, I was doing the washing up yesterday and the Beatles song "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" came on the radio, and I immediately thought of this scene.
Here I stand, head in hand, turn my face to the wall
If (s)he's gone I can't go on
Feeling two foot small
Everywhere,people stare
Each and every day
I can feel them laugh at me
Then I hear them say
Hey, you've got to hide your love away

Brought tears to my eyes just picturing the scene :\'(

Oh, this about makes me cry -- beautiful words, and so apt.  I wonder who Paul and/or John were thinking about when they wrote this -- who has to hide their love away except someone in love with someone where it's not acceptable to be...

kathy


Just perfect, CrimsonSky

The song was written by John and dedicated to Beatles'manager Brian Epstein, always a loner, and confused and ashamed of his homosexuality


Thank you, frances -- you're up on your Beatles, too.  Wonderful that that song was written for a gay man...  And in the same era as Ennis and Jack.  Too sad.

kathy
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Offline donnaread

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #69 on: Jun 20, 2006, 04:02 PM »
perfect, CrimsonSky

The song was written by John and dedicated to Beatles'manager Brian Epstein, always a loner, and confused and ashamed of his homosexuality

Quote

Thank you, frances -- you're up on your Beatles, too.  Wonderful that that song was written for a gay man...  And in the same era as Ennis and Jack.  Too sad.

kathy
Quote
There was some speculation about a sexual relationship between John Lennon and Brian Epstein.
This is the forest primeval.  The murmuring pines and the hemlocks, bearded with moss, and in garments green, indistinct in the twilight...but where are the hearts that beneath it leaped...

Offline CrimsonSky

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #70 on: Jun 20, 2006, 05:50 PM »
Thank you, frances -- you're up on your Beatles, too.  Wonderful that that song was written for a gay man...  And in the same era as Ennis and Jack.  Too sad.

kathy

*sigh* I wonder if they ever heard it, and it made them think of each other (whaddya mean, they're not real?!! ;) ;D)
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline ksxks

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #71 on: Jun 22, 2006, 12:24 AM »
Thank you, frances -- you're up on your Beatles, too.  Wonderful that that song was written for a gay man...  And in the same era as Ennis and Jack.  Too sad.

kathy

*sigh* I wonder if they ever heard it, and it made them think of each other (whaddya mean, they're not real?!! ;) ;D)

While I'm glad they didn't use more popular music in the film, other than the more timeless C/W music, I feel sure Ennis and Jack would have heard all the popular music of the times on the radio -- young people always find the cool new music -- and the Beatles were on TV, etc., and they did have TV's.  Heck, they would have at least been into Elvis!  Ennis might have thought the Beatles were too queer!

kathy
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Offline Twisted

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Ennis in the alley
« Reply #72 on: Sep 03, 2008, 12:32 PM »
What do you think was the reason why Ennis collapsed in the alleyway? I know that the SS says something like this: " he shouldn't have let him out of his sights" but was that the only reason?

I'm thinking that it was also maybe because Ennis realized that he is gay and there was no denying it.

Anymore reasons? Thoughts are welcome :)
The most difficult scene was the paragraph where, on the mountain, Ennis holds Jack and rocks back and forth, humming, the moment mixed with childhood loss and his refusal to admit he was holding a man.

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From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood, Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking.

Offline chameau

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #73 on: Sep 03, 2008, 01:49 PM »
Hi Twisted, I merged your thread with this existing one, there was no new discussion on this matter since June 2006, hopefully your post we re-start the thread. :)
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Offline Twisted

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #74 on: Sep 03, 2008, 01:54 PM »
Hi Twisted, I merged your thread with this existing one, there was no new discussion on this matter since June 2006, hopefully your post we re-start the thread. :)

Thank you Cham.  :)
The most difficult scene was the paragraph where, on the mountain, Ennis holds Jack and rocks back and forth, humming, the moment mixed with childhood loss and his refusal to admit he was holding a man.

- Annie Proulx -



From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood, Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking.

Offline jackster

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Re: Ennis in the alley
« Reply #75 on: Sep 03, 2008, 03:14 PM »
What do you think was the reason why Ennis collapsed in the alleyway?
Anymore reasons? Thoughts are welcome :)

Well the SS spells it out like this:

"Right," said Jack, and they shook hands, hit each other on the shoulder; then there was forty feet of distance between them and nothing to do but drive away in opposite directions. Within a mile Ennis felt like someone was pulling his guts out hand over hand a yard at a time. He stopped at the side of the road and, in the whirling new snow, tried to puke but nothing came up. He felt about as bad as he ever had and it took a long time for the feeling to wear off.

But if I understand your question Twisted is not so much WHAT he felt, but WHY he felt. Am I right here? Not sure he understood why himself. Said as much years later with Jack in the motel. He didn't know why he was so torn up, couldn't see it (then). But he did see it eventually, enough to even tell Jack, as you say "he shouldn't a let him outta' his sights"

Personally I don't think the gay aspect enters into yet. I don't think Ennis can see or understand that yet, but I do think he's just said "Goodbye" to the person he'd loved more and felt closer too than anyone else in his life. And there wasn't much prospect for a future get together. His punch had put a damper on things, and both boys were struggling with emotions they little understood. As we see later Ennis strikes out violently when he encounters situations he doesn't understand or can't control, I feel he's striking out at himself here. In effect he's gut punching himself (course he does punch the wall) trying to make himself conform to a reality he wants, but not the one he feels. JMHO
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Offline keren_b

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Re: Ennis in the alley
« Reply #76 on: Sep 03, 2008, 03:39 PM »
Well the SS spells it out like this:

"Right," said Jack, and they shook hands, hit each other on the shoulder; then there was forty feet of distance between them and nothing to do but drive away in opposite directions. Within a mile Ennis felt like someone was pulling his guts out hand over hand a yard at a time. He stopped at the side of the road and, in the whirling new snow, tried to puke but nothing came up. He felt about as bad as he ever had and it took a long time for the feeling to wear off.

But if I understand your question Twisted is not so much WHAT he felt, but WHY he felt. Am I right here? Not sure he understood why himself. Said as much years later with Jack in the motel. He didn't know why he was so torn up, couldn't see it (then). But he did see it eventually, enough to even tell Jack, as you say "he shouldn't a let him outta' his sights"

Personally I don't think the gay aspect enters into yet. I don't think Ennis can see or understand that yet, but I do think he's just said "Goodbye" to the person he'd loved more and felt closer too than anyone else in his life. And there wasn't much prospect for a future get together. His punch had put a damper on things, and both boys were struggling with emotions they little understood. As we see later Ennis strikes out violently when he encounters situations he doesn't understand or can't control, I feel he's striking out at himself here. In effect he's gut punching himself (course he does punch the wall) trying to make himself conform to a reality he wants, but not the one he feels. JMHO

I was about to write a reply to the question, then saw your post jackster, and you said some of the things that I've been thinking, mainly what I highlighted in red. According to the short story, Ennis didn't realize at the time why he felt so bad, he said later to Jack that it "took me about a year a figure out it was that I should'nt a let you out a my sights." But even if he didn't realize it back then, it was definitely a reaction to saying goodbye to Jack, the only person he ever loved, the best thing that ever happened to him, thinking that they'd probably never see each other again.

There's a slight difference between the story and the movie though. According to the story, Ennis thought he might've ate something bad that caused him to feel so bad - at least that's what he told Jack. But in the movie we see that he's not only trying to puke, he's also sobbing and punching the wall (which can't really be explained by food poisoning). He's angry and heartbroken. And I think that this change from the story opens up the scene to new interpretations. It shows a little more awareness on his part, awareness to what he'd just lost. And maybe anger at himself too?
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Offline jackster

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Re: Ennis in the alley
« Reply #77 on: Sep 03, 2008, 04:14 PM »
And maybe anger at himself too?

You bet keren. Like he's thinkin' NO, NO, I don't love him! In thinkin' about this scene I'm struck at the emotional similarity with the Thanksgiving scene in the kitchen when he lashes out at Alma, grabs her arm, ready to punch her. "You don't know nuthin' about it". Similar emotions rising, when confronted with his inner self, his anger and fear, met with an outward reaction of violence. Heath is so damn good here, understands the similarity of the moment, the similarity of emotions inside Ennis, one directed at Alma, the other directed at himself.

(Not the best actor of the year? [make that decade] gimme a break! sorry OT)
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Offline atalley

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #78 on: Sep 03, 2008, 04:47 PM »
I agree with Heath being the Best Actor of The Decade!  Since you mentioned it, was anyone else as shocked as I was to see the rage he had when Alma confronted him?  It still "blows me away"...hitting another man, maybe, but threatening your ex-wife like that (Woah)!

Offline ksxks

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #79 on: Sep 03, 2008, 11:11 PM »
I agree with Heath being the Best Actor of The Decade!  Since you mentioned it, was anyone else as shocked as I was to see the rage he had when Alma confronted him?  It still "blows me away"...hitting another man, maybe, but threatening your ex-wife like that (Woah)!

Yes, it was very shocking.  But we get the idea that it wasn't the only time.  Maybe not to the point of actually hitting, but near enough.  You see on the 4th of July how fearful she seemed of his anger bursting out like it did.  I suspect that, if he was drunk, he might well have hit Alma at some time during their marriage.  Which, along with his failure as a provider, would have spurred her on, as the girls got older, to make her own life, get a job, eventually divorce...

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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #80 on: Sep 04, 2008, 12:11 AM »
I am so glad you all revived this discussion. Thanks, Twisted, Cham.

Jackster, you the man!

Well the SS spells it out like this:

"Right," said Jack, and they shook hands, hit each other on the shoulder; then there was forty feet of distance between them and nothing to do but drive away in opposite directions. Within a mile Ennis felt like someone was pulling his guts out hand over hand a yard at a time. He stopped at the side of the road and, in the whirling new snow, tried to puke but nothing came up. He felt about as bad as he ever had and it took a long time for the feeling to wear off.

But if I understand your question Twisted is not so much WHAT he felt, but WHY he felt. Am I right here? Not sure he understood why himself. Said as much years later with Jack in the motel. He didn't know why he was so torn up, couldn't see it (then). But he did see it eventually, enough to even tell Jack, as you say "he shouldn't a let him outta' his sights"

Personally I don't think the gay aspect enters into yet. I don't think Ennis can see or understand that yet, but I do think he's just said "Goodbye" to the person he'd loved more and felt closer too than anyone else in his life. And there wasn't much prospect for a future get together. His punch had put a damper on things, and both boys were struggling with emotions they little understood. As we see later Ennis strikes out violently when he encounters situations he doesn't understand or can't control, I feel he's striking out at himself here. In effect he's gut punching himself (course he does punch the wall) trying to make himself conform to a reality he wants, but not the one he feels.[/i] JMHO

Ennis was lost and confused from the moment he saw Jack packing up. He sat on the hill trying to sort out his feelings with no reins but couldn't. Then Jack made it more difficult, with all the physical contact, the wrestling. The punch was out of frustration as much as anger. Ennis had no way of expressing how he felt, except through his fist.

As Jack drove away in the trust, Ennis was back to his lonely highway, long and dusty. Instead of pawing the white out of the moon, he was back to the grindstone, back to the dusty old road. Yeah, he was sick of it, because he was addicted to Jack by this point. Gut punching himself, that's clever, Jackster. I think you are right. He hated feeling being hooked, but also felt good being hooked. He was conflicted, and had to punch something.

As for Alma being afraid of Ennis, I think that's probably underplayed in the movie, and not much of it in the short story. I was shocked to see Alma's reaction, when Ennis came to the store with the two girls under his arms, and said "...I'd lose my job." Then Alma responded "What about my job?" And  Ennis just simple flashed a mean look on his face before Alma submitted. I agree with you, Kathy, Atalley, that it was only a matter of time that Alma left Ennis, without or without Jack Twist.

That sure puts a different twist (no pun intended) on the question, "You ain't find anyone else to marry?"
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Offline keren_b

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Re: Ennis in the alley
« Reply #81 on: Sep 04, 2008, 07:22 AM »
You bet keren. Like he's thinkin' NO, NO, I don't love him! In thinkin' about this scene I'm struck at the emotional similarity with the Thanksgiving scene in the kitchen when he lashes out at Alma, grabs her arm, ready to punch her. "You don't know nuthin' about it". Similar emotions rising, when confronted with his inner self, his anger and fear, met with an outward reaction of violence. Heath is so damn good here, understands the similarity of the moment, the similarity of emotions inside Ennis, one directed at Alma, the other directed at himself.

(Not the best actor of the year? [make that decade] gimme a break! sorry OT)

Again, I couldn't agree with you more Jackster. And good thing about the reaction of violence in both scenes, the alley scene and the confrontation scene.

When I think about it, for a lot of people, when they don't express their feelings verbally it comes out in another way, usually a physical way. Like when you feel miserable but you keep it all inside, and then you become ill. Ennis was a man who didn't know how to deal with his feelings, let alone express them, so they just came bursting out in another way. He couldn't tell Jack how devastated he felt over having to say goodbye to him, couldn't even accept what he was feeling and admit it to himself, and all this turmoil inside him made him feel physically ill because he couldn't express it. Felt like he ate something bad and needed to puke. Heath has realized that, as well as how this mechanism had led to violence in Ennis's case. He often said that he wanted Ennis to be like a clenched fist, unable to express himself, but I think I also read somewhere that he actually explained how this unability to express himself verbally comes out as violence. I wish I could find where I've read that. Ennis just didn't know how to deal with his feelings, how to express them in any other way.

And yes, he was angry at himself... this is how the screenplay described the breakdown scene:

He stumbles into an alley, drops to his knees. Kneels there, silent, as pain, longing, loneliness, overpower Ennis - emotions stronger than he's ever felt for another person consume him: he feels as bad and confused as he ever has in his life. Conflicted - he is angry at himself, for all that has happened, and for all that he is feeling. Punches the wall, bloodying both his knuckles.

One of the film's strongest scenes imo, and Heath did it perfectly.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in the alley
« Reply #82 on: Sep 04, 2008, 07:33 AM »
What do you think was the reason why Ennis collapsed in the alleyway? I know that the SS says something like this: " he shouldn't have let him out of his sights" but was that the only reason?

I'm thinking that it was also maybe because Ennis realized that he is gay and there was no denying it.

Anymore reasons? Thoughts are welcome :)

I think it was the stress of pretense that caused the collapse.  When you try to go one way and your heart tells you to go the other way, you are certainly courting mental and physical collapse, as so many people can attest.

I think it went beyond the realization of sexual orientation.  He collapsed because he is trying to be someone he really isn't. 


Offline jackster

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Re: Ennis in the alley
« Reply #83 on: Sep 04, 2008, 08:07 AM »
. . . . Heath has realized that, as well as how this mechanism had led to violence in Ennis's case. He often said that he wanted Ennis to be like a clenched fist, unable to express himself, but I think I also read somewhere that he actually explained how this unability to express himself verbally comes out as violence.  Ennis just didn't know how to deal with his feelings, how to express them in any other way. . . .
One of the film's strongest scenes imo, and Heath did it perfectly.

Oh my, keren. Not to get to far OT here, but. I've often wondered how exactly Heath did this. Wondered what was inside him that made him see this, feel this, so he could display it with such luminosity on the screen. One of the many tragedies of his passing is that we'll never learn more about this from him. Sometimes as a person ages they relax and open up about themselves and their own story with the benefit of hindsight. It would have been wonderful to hear what Heath had to say about this in ten or fifteen years. How his own life colored his view of Ennis, (and of Jack). Sorry, I need to go cry in a corner now . . . .  :\'(
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Offline atalley

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #84 on: Sep 04, 2008, 02:18 PM »
I think part of the beauty of their acting is that they were 100% committed to being Ennis and Jack.  I think these emotions flowed from their hearts just as if they were Jack and Ennis in the flesh.  Does that make sense?  I think they would both be exhausted after each days work with this kind of intensity.   :f)

Offline lamusica

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Re: Ennis in the alley
« Reply #85 on: Sep 04, 2008, 02:39 PM »
I think it was the stress of pretense that caused the collapse.  When you try to go one way and your heart tells you to go the other way, you are certainly courting mental and physical collapse, as so many people can attest.

I think it went beyond the realization of sexual orientation.  He collapsed because he is trying to be someone he really isn't. 



This is the scene at which BBM got me.  The very first time I saw it, I was just watching a movie -- until that scene.  Then, I saw a "truth" I had never seen depicted before, but have experienced.  I believe Ennis broke down over his bereavement.  He suddenly realized he had lost Jack.  After two months of being with him daily ( and <^( nightly), he was now without him totally.  I experienced this type of bereavement one time after being with a group of artists for one whole week, being with these people everyday, engrossed in nature ( in Gatlinburg, TN), doing everything together, with the outside world completely forgotten.  We didn't even watch the news on tv, no computers, no cell-phones -- just us together making art.  As I drove out of the gates of the community (Arrowmont) into downtown Gatlinburg, my guts cramped, I broke down in sobs, and I felt as if a part of my lie was over, and I didn't want it to be over.  It had been such a wonderful week, I had no desire to go back to my regular life.

So, when I saw Ennis acting out the feelings I had had several years earlier, I felt he was acting out his loss of Jack.  He would now return to his regular life -- no Jack, no life with Jack, no sex with Jack,no Jack in any way, shape or form.  Just total bereavement.
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Offline rimasworld

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #86 on: Sep 04, 2008, 08:41 PM »
Ennis was such a mixed up mess of emotions in this scene. He had just allowed Jack to drive off knowing he was the best friend he had ever made, he was angry at himself for doing it but also fearful of what else he might be feeling. His fear made him sick and he let it out by punching the wall. But in the end he couldn't help but cry over who and what had just driven out of his life. I really felt bad for Ennis he was in such pain and didn't understand it.

Offline ksxks

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #87 on: Sep 04, 2008, 11:07 PM »
All of your posts are beautiful, astute.  This scene is so expressive of Ennis, of someone not being in touch with his feelings, his truth.  And in those moments, he did indeed think that the best time of his life was over...  A sad thing to think, at 19.

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Offline Asali

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Re: Ennis breaking down in alleyway after leaving Jack
« Reply #88 on: Sep 04, 2008, 11:39 PM »
This is such a hard scene to watch, his emotions were certainly a mess, he knew what he felt but I don't think he knew how he was going to deal with it, let alone accept it and kathy I agree I think he would have felt that his life was over, so very sad.
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: Ennis in the alley
« Reply #89 on: Sep 05, 2008, 12:59 AM »
Oh my, keren. Not to get to far OT here, but. I've often wondered how exactly Heath did this. Wondered what was inside him that made him see this, feel this, so he could display it with such luminosity on the screen. One of the many tragedies of his passing is that we'll never learn more about this from him. Sometimes as a person ages they relax and open up about themselves and their own story with the benefit of hindsight. It would have been wonderful to hear what Heath had to say about this in ten or fifteen years. How his own life colored his view of Ennis, (and of Jack). Sorry, I need to go cry in a corner now . . . .  :\'(

 :ghug: Jackster  :ghug: thank you for this  :\'(  :ghug:


Heath, you are loved, like this, always.