Topic: "Jack Nasty" v. Alma or a Separate Peace?

[manhattangirl]

"Alma, you call that a life?" Jack asks Ennis when they met again after four years.  Not really explored much in the film, there was an underlying rivalry between Jack and Alma. 

After all Ennis did come back from those "fishing trips" all perky, how could Alma compete with the "perky factor"?

Jack seeing Alma as someone pulling Ennis down, Alma seeing Jack as a direct threat of her marriage.  Ennis steadfastly holding on to his marriage, but not letting Jack go.  Did either Jack or Alma had a chance, neither got what they really wanted in the end. 

Alma loved Ennis, but needed him as husband and father,  Jack loved Ennis but needed and wanted to be with him, even for a couple times a year.   If Alma recognized that whatever Ennis got from Jack, it was something she couldn't even begin to touch, but understood that Ennis didn't want to lose what they had, the family life.  

There were no shades of gray, all concerned saw things black and white.   But what if a separate peace could have been made between the two, (Jack and Alma), something unspoken, but accepted, that both would have Ennis in the way they needed him, and all could be content with what they had.   

[welshwitch]

No way - the "Jack Nasty" comment gives away Alma's real feelings - she doesn't just feel jealous of Jack, she hates the idea of what he is to Ennis. No way is this church-going conventional girl with her narrow experience and limited horizons going to agree to that sort of arrangement.

[aintfoolin]

I agree. There was'nt a chance in hell of this becoming any kind of friendship between Jack and Alma.  I think she feels Jack stole Ennis, when  in actuality Jack and Ennis had a past she did'nt know about. She thought Jack was just a friend that Ennis *cowboyed* (with, immediatly informed that Jack was only just  a fishing buddy by Ennis.) Neither was was the  completely the truth. When she saw them kissing, it was the position she saw them in with Jack having Ennis  pinned against the wall , suggesting Jack was the aggressor and in pursuit of her man under pretense of just a friend looking up an old buddy for a few beers, Never mind that Ennis was a VERY willing participant in what she was seeing.  In fact it was her husband who initiated the kissing much to Jack's suprise.
Nothing Jack could have said or done would endear Alma to him in any way, shape or form. She thought of him as "Jack Nasty"  , suggesting that Jack being gay is something dirty or disgusting and was somehow trying to convert Ennis into the lifestyle. I think this prim, proper, christian woman  had hate in her heart for Jack.  Jack was her rival , as she stayed and continued to have sexual relations with Ennis. Perhaps she thought this would keep Ennis away from Jack but it was to no avail. Ennis was hooked on Jack.

[manhattangirl]

Not that Alma and Jack become bosom buddies or anything like that, they may have nothing to do with each other,  she hated Jack, but her love for Ennis was greater, or was it?   Did she let her resentment get the best of her, resigned her life to a man she never really had passion for or live the man she did have the passion for?   Jack understood how is was, and lived with it.

[tpe]

"Alma, you call that a life?" Jack asks Ennis when they met again after four years.  Not really explored much in the film, there was an underlying rivalry between Jack and Alma. 

After all Ennis did come back from those "fishing trips" all perky, how could Alma compete with the "perky factor"?

Jack seeing Alma as someone pulling Ennis down, Alma seeing Jack as a direct threat of her marriage.  Ennis steadfastly holding on to his marriage, but not letting Jack go.  Did either Jack or Alma had a chance, neither got what they really wanted in the end. 

Alma loved Ennis, but needed him as husband and father,  Jack loved Ennis but needed and wanted to be with him, even for a couple times a year.   If Alma recognized that whatever Ennis got from Jack, it was something she couldn't even begin to touch, but understood that Ennis didn't want to lose what they had, the family life.  

There were no shades of gray, all concerned saw things black and white.   But what if a separate peace could have been made between the two, (Jack and Alma), something unspoken, but accepted, that both would have Ennis in the way they needed him, and all could be content with what they had.   

I think a separate peace would have been unlikely.  Jack would never have his sweet life so long as Ennis felt it was incompatible with his duty as father to his children.  Alma would never have allowed the girls to be a part of Ennis's life with Jack.

If not for the children, I think a separate peace would have been possible.  Perhaps it would have been easier if Jack had lived when Ennis's 2 daughters had grown up and were no longer dependednt on their parents.

But I sense that Alma pinned all the blame on her failed marriage with Ennis on Jack -- there would be no peace with him because of that.

[manhattangirl]

Alma blamed Jack for ruining Ennis and her marriage, Jack blamed Alma for the kind of life Ennis had.    Ennis unaware of what was going on, held fast to the illusion of his life.   Not realizing that the only life that would be real was the acceptance of himself. 

IMO:  Ennis's conformity was an illusion,  he indeed had a relationship with his children, even with Alma knowing what she saw.  Alma bitterness I believe only extended as far as she was concerned.  This after all the man she loved, and though loved and wanted her,  felt cheated.   Jack was a rival for her man's love and affection, and she lost.  

Ennis never considered her as  a woman who loved him.   Ennis was consumed with Jack, his love, he needs were met in Jack.  Before we start pinning father of the year metal on Ennis,  he was only allowed to see his children because Alma allowed it.   

 

[lamusica]

A  separate Peace may have been possible if the difference between Alma and Jack had been politics, or religion.  But it was LOVe -- the love they both had for ONE MAN -- Ennis.  There could be no meeting of the minds when they both saw Ennis as their own man.  Alma could only see Jack as an interloper; Jack could only see Alma as an unfortunate mistake Ennis made in his early life.  They may be civil to one another, but they would never be more that that.  Part of love is trust and they both knew Ennis was never going to choose one of them over the other.  They both realized his commitment to the other, so they could never have Ennis to themselves. Consequently, they saw each other as enemies, vying for the same prize, and that's the way it was until Alma finally realizes she can never win, so she gives up and marries the grocer.  She could have stayed with Ennis, but she would have had to continue sharing him and she couldnd't do that anymore.  She deserved to be loved, so she took things into her own hands and pushed her future in the direction of the grocer.  Jack, on the other hand, just let things be.  He mentioned being together whenever he was with Ennis, but he knew Ennis was not going to budge so long as he was married to Alma.  So, Jack waited.  Unfortunately, he waited too long.  Ennis never did capitulate to Jack, so Jack just gave up.  This opened Jack up to new men/new experiences.  So sad.

[manhattangirl]

At the Thanksgiving dinner, the jig was up, Alma let Ennis know she knew what was going on, as ugly as it was the truth came out.   What was going on in Ennis's mind?  We know his violent streak came out, he grabs Alma's arm, rushed out of the house, runs to a bar, gets into a fight.  His was found out, he was enraged, but not really knowing how it effected him after that, we do know he asked Jack if Lureen pick up any signs,  was he going deeper into himself?   

We see how he was loved,   Alma still loved him, Jack will never stop loving him.  Alma moved on, Jack stayed with him, and he still had a relationship with his kids, if Alma wanted to be a real  b@#ch  about the way her life turned out, she would have used the kids as a weapon, which is not out of the question, she didn't.   Alma, Jr. was testament to that.

Ennis ability to still be loved, is one of saddest part of the story, he was totally unaware.   

   



 

[tpe]

Alma blamed Jack for ruining Ennis and her marriage, Jack blamed Alma for the kind of life Ennis had.    Ennis unaware of what was going on, held fast to the illusion of his life.   Not realizing that the only life that would be real was the acceptance of himself. 

IMO:  Ennis's conformity was an illusion,  he indeed had a relationship with his children, even with Alma knowing what she saw.  Alma bitterness I believe only extended as far as she was concerned.  This after all the man she loved, and though loved and wanted her,  felt cheated.   Jack was a rival for her man's love and affection, and she lost.  

Ennis never considered her as  a woman who loved him.   Ennis was consumed with Jack, his love, he needs were met in Jack.  Before we start pinning father of the year metal on Ennis,  he was only allowed to see his children because Alma allowed it.   

In a real sense, neither Jack nor Alma won, no?  This is the irony of it all.  Ennis tried to hold on to both but only succeeded in making both unhappy in the long run.

[tpe]

A  separate Peace may have been possible if the difference between Alma and Jack had been politics, or religion.  But it was LOVe -- the love they both had for ONE MAN -- Ennis.  There could be no meeting of the minds when they both saw Ennis as their own man.  Alma could only see Jack as an interloper; Jack could only see Alma as an unfortunate mistake Ennis made in his early life.  They may be civil to one another, but they would never be more that that.  Part of love is trust and they both knew Ennis was never going to choose one of them over the other.  They both realized his commitment to the other, so they could never have Ennis to themselves. Consequently, they saw each other as enemies, vying for the same prize, and that's the way it was until Alma finally realizes she can never win, so she gives up and marries the grocer.  She could have stayed with Ennis, but she would have had to continue sharing him and she couldnd't do that anymore.  She deserved to be loved, so she took things into her own hands and pushed her future in the direction of the grocer.  Jack, on the other hand, just let things be.  He mentioned being together whenever he was with Ennis, but he knew Ennis was not going to budge so long as he was married to Alma.  So, Jack waited.  Unfortunately, he waited too long.  Ennis never did capitulate to Jack, so Jack just gave up.  This opened Jack up to new men/new experiences.  So sad.

Perhaps both of them (Alma and Jack) were "victims" of Ennis's intransigence.  In a way, I think Ennis used Alma as an excuse to keep Jack at a certain distance.  And Ennis perhaps didn't really care that much to hide his true feelings from Alma.  Ennis was quite careless, no?  Not that he made a spectacle of his love for Jack, but I think he was only concerned about proper FORM -- and not SUBSTANCE in her marriage with Alma.  That was why in his view, Alma crossed the line in the Thanksgiving scene: because she dared to go behind the facade of appearances and call things by their proper names.

In view of these things, it was because of Ennis that both would never really find a separate peace.

[tpe]

At the Thanksgiving dinner, the jig was up, Alma let Ennis know she knew what was going on, as ugly as it was the truth came out.   What was going on in Ennis's mind?  We know his violent streak came out, he grabs Alma's arm, rushed out of the house, runs to a bar, gets into a fight.  His was found out, he was enraged, but not really knowing how it effected him after that, we do know he asked Jack if Lureen pick up any signs,  was he going deeper into himself?   

As I mentioned in my previous post, this scene certainly shows Alma violating the unspoken understanding between them: that proper FORM must be maintained at all cost.  I think she surprised Ennis.  And this is one clear indication that there would be no separate peace.  Such a peace would be impossible if Alma would refuse to suppress her true feelings for the sake of appearances.

[manhattangirl]

As I mentioned in my previous post, this scene certainly shows Alma violating the unspoken understanding between them: that proper FORM must be maintained at all cost.  I think she surprised Ennis.  And this is one clear indication that there would be no separate peace.  Such a peace would be impossible if Alma would refuse to suppress her true feelings for the sake of appearances.

I don't understand, "proper form", this was a woman who's world was taken away, by something she herself didn't understand.  The "proper form" was an understanding between Jack and Ennis if anything.   

The questioning of herself, as a woman, was still going on when the Thanksgiving dinner happened.   It was eating away at her even though she married the grocer, having his child, she was living a life that was appearance driven, but her passions, her love, was still Ennis's.   Ennis was something she couldn't have but wanted badly, she settled with the polite, dependable, but passionless Monroe, who after hearing the ruckus in the kitchen took too long to react, was not about to go against Ennis.

How could there be an understanding between Ennis and Alma, when Alma really didn't understand why this happened to her, and why Ennis "let" Jack Nasty do this to them.  Ennis should have kept his rage in check, for the first time be honest.  Do you think she would've listen and understood, maybe? 

   

[tpe]

I don't understand, "proper form", this was a woman who's world was taken away, by something she herself didn't understand.  The "proper form" was an understanding between Jack and Ennis if anything.   

The questioning of herself, as a woman, was still going on when the Thanksgiving dinner happened.   It was eating away at her even though she married the grocer, having his child, she was living a life that was appearance driven, but her passions, her love, was still Ennis's.   Ennis was something she couldn't have but wanted badly, she settled with the polite, dependable, but passionless Monroe, who after hearing the ruckus in the kitchen took too long to react, was not about to go against Ennis.

How could there be an understanding between Ennis and Alma, when Alma really didn't understand why this happened to her, and why Ennis "let" Jack Nasty do this to them.  Ennis should have kept his rage in check, for the first time be honest.  Do you think she would've listen and understood, maybe? 

   

Here, "proper form" would mean not bringing things out in the open.  I feel that somehow in the back of his mind, Ennis must have known about Alma suspecting something.  Whether or not she knew, Ennis assumed that certain things must remain unspoken -- i.e., cannot be discussed without destroying the balance between them as husband and wife, or father and mother.

Alma clearly understood this: she kept quiet for so long, knowing what she knew.  Once she brought things out in the open in the Thanksgiving scene, there was no turning back.  There would be no peace for her because even the pretense of it had now vanished.

This is quite common in real life: certain things are expected to remain unsaid: past lovers, infidelities, or dark secrets.  Often, one can't have a separate peace once the cat is out of the bag.

[manhattangirl]

Than "proper form" was broken twice, Thanksgiving and the Final Confrontation.   Too many things were not dealt with here, and eventually destroyed emotionally all concerned. 

[tpe]

Than "proper form" was broken twice, Thanksgiving and the Final Confrontation.   Too many things were not dealt with here, and eventually destroyed emotionally all concerned. 

Correct.  Jack broke the unspoken rule in the Final Confrontation.  I suspect that he did it on purpose, having lost hope of ever getting Ennis to commit.

It is fair to say that Jack and Alma could reach a separate peace because of Ennis -- too many things unresolved. 

I suspect nonetheless that right before he died, Jack came close -- if he did not fully achieved it by then -- a separate peace with Ennis.  Had he lived, perhaps he would have reach the same thing with Alma. 

[welshwitch]

I have a feeling that had the affair been kept discreet, even after seeing the reunion kiss Alma would have gone on tolerating it as long as it didn't become public and as long as she had no other options. But she met Monroe, which gave her options, had her differences with Ennis and may have thought his concern about the expense of more children was just an excuse to keep his sex life confined to Jack and simply live in a companionate way with her. She clearly wanted more children ( which is what puts me off her!) and Monroe could both get her pregnant and afford to keep any children they had.

Once married to him I think it was less love for Ennis that made her drag his relationship with Jack out into the open than the fact that she was jealous of Jack, who by now had kept Ennis's love for years, and for longer than she had managed to do. She wanted Ennis to know what she knew, I think - she's kind of rubbing his nose in it. Not only has she got a new husband, a new home, his two girls and a child of her own on the way - she also knows all about him and Jack.

After all, she never knows that Jack is desperate to live with Ennis - she probably just sees Ennis as out on his own and there because it's all his own fault. If he'd settled down with Jack after she left she might have reacted very differently.

[tpe]

I have a feeling that had the affair been kept discreet, even after seeing the reunion kiss Alma would have gone on tolerating it as long as it didn't become public and as long as she had no other options. But she met Monroe, which gave her options, had her differences with Ennis and may have thought his concern about the expense of more children was just an excuse to keep his sex life confined to Jack and simply live in a companionate way with her. She clearly wanted more children ( which is what puts me off her!) and Monroe could both get her pregnant and afford to keep any children they had.

Once married to him I think it was less love for Ennis that made her drag his relationship with Jack out into the open than the fact that she was jealous of Jack, who by now had kept Ennis's love for years, and for longer than she had managed to do. She wanted Ennis to know what she knew, I think - she's kind of rubbing his nose in it. Not only has she got a new husband, a new home, his two girls and a child of her own on the way - she also knows all about him and Jack.

After all, she never knows that Jack is desperate to live with Ennis - she probably just sees Ennis as out on his own and there because it's all his own fault. If he'd settled down with Jack after she left she might have reacted very differently.

I suspect though that she her opening up to Monroe was probably due to her knowledge of what Ennis and Jack were doing.  Had she never had known, she probably would have not even considered Monroe.

I think both of us are assuming here that Alma started a liason with Monroe even before the divorce, no?  In any case, I do think that after her marriage to Monroe, it still probabably bothered her that she had lived a lie with Ennis all those years.  She probably did not love Ennis that much after her marriage to Monroe, but I suspect that it was all the hurt stored up deep inside her that made her finally out her former husband in the Thanksgiving scene.

Clearly, she did not have a separate peace even then.

[welshwitch]

I'm sure that if Ennis had been faithful, Alma would have been too, even if she'd worked for Monroe and liked him as a friend.It's the knowledge of what Ennis and Jack did ,what they were to each other, and what Ennis wasn't to her, that bugs her, even after the divorce and her remarriage. Even when she's settled with Monroe Ennis is astill unfinished business to her - I'm sure the Thanksgiving invitation was in some way an attempt to show Ennis how much better off she was now.

I imagine her as not particularly in love with Monroe, as she wasn't with Ennis; to me she seems unlikely to feel strong desire or deep passion for anyone - but she knows in some dim way that that's what there is between Ennis and Jack.

[goblondie]

I think what Alma is doing and her behaviour both at the thanksgiving dinner and the situation with the supper is very normal for anyone who discover his/her partner is f.....g another person. Your whole world and imagination about how your marriage is broken to down and maybe you find out that you have been living on a lie.
Im sure if Alma didnt see Ennis and Jack kissing Alma and Ennis would still have been married.
She must have been frustrated and now she wanted to let Ennis know how much she suffered.

[manhattangirl]

It's like the old saying, "be careful what you wish for",  Jack always assume that it was Alma that kept him and Ennis apart.  Ennis always insisting that they both stay married, they were after all husbands and fathers.  but when Ennis let Jack know he was divorce Jack of course assume they would be together, wrong. 

Jack had a hard dose of reality when he went to Ennis.   It wasn't Alma that kept them apart, but it was Ennis, all along.   ignorance is indeed bliss.   Jack now the one in tears rides off, leaving his lover. 

Alma and Jack, secretly hating one another for holding on to the man they loved, but not realizing until the end it wasn't them after all kept Ennis from them, but it was Ennis himself. 

[tpe]

I'm sure that if Ennis had been faithful, Alma would have been too, even if she'd worked for Monroe and liked him as a friend.It's the knowledge of what Ennis and Jack did ,what they were to each other, and what Ennis wasn't to her, that bugs her, even after the divorce and her remarriage. Even when she's settled with Monroe Ennis is astill unfinished business to her - I'm sure the Thanksgiving invitation was in some way an attempt to show Ennis how much better off she was now.

I imagine her as not particularly in love with Monroe, as she wasn't with Ennis; to me she seems unlikely to feel strong desire or deep passion for anyone - but she knows in some dim way that that's what there is between Ennis and Jack.

Although I agree that perhaps she was not that in love with Monroe, I do think that she was probably in love with Ennis.  I guess it was this that made it hurt so much for her.  She clearly hadn't gotten over this hurt even during the Thanksgiving scene.  It's hard to imagine a separate peace when it involves a betrayal from someone you had loved sincerely.

[tpe]

Im sure if Alma didnt see Ennis and Jack kissing Alma and Ennis would still have been married.
She must have been frustrated and now she wanted to let Ennis know how much she suffered.

And even if the marriage did not work out and they got divorced anyway, I am sure there would have been less rancour on the part of Alma had she not seen what she saw. 

[tpe]

It's like the old saying, "be careful what you wish for",  Jack always assume that it was Alma that kept him and Ennis apart.  Ennis always insisting that they both stay married, they were after all husbands and fathers.  but when Ennis let Jack know he was divorce Jack of course assume they would be together, wrong. 

Jack had a hard dose of reality when he went to Ennis.   It wasn't Alma that kept them apart, but it was Ennis, all along.   ignorance is indeed bliss.   Jack now the one in tears rides off, leaving his lover. 

True. Of course, it wasn't really Alma -- and I think Jack may have realized this later. 

It is interesting that Ennis still used Alma later on as an excuse -- about her letting them adopt the girls.  It was as if Ennis wanted Jack to still see Alma as one of the reasons why a sweet life was impossible.  Ennis certainly didnt seem to want Jack to reach a separate peace with Alma.

Alma and Jack, secretly hating one another for holding on to the man they loved, but not realizing until the end it wasn't them after all kept Ennis from them, but it was Ennis himself. 

Again, I like the way you say it here.  Still, I think even in the end, both Alam and Jack still hated the thought of each other, whcich is why I tend to believe that there would be no peace between them.

[manhattangirl]

But wasn't interesting when Jack put down Alma to Ennis in the Reunion, when they were alone on the the mountain, Ennis didn't take offense to this put down, but pleaded to Jack "It's not her fault".   

If anyone would have said something about Alma, that was less than flattering Ennis would have knock them on their butt,  but he didn't with Jack, he wanted Jack to understand that it wasn't her fault that he was living the way he was.

Ennis took whatever Jack told him to heart,  Jack touch something in Ennis that no one could ever get near.  Ennis could not help himself when it came to Jack.   Jack was his weakness,  Ennis love Jack so deeply so desperately that throughout the years he was the thing he wouldn't let go. 

Jack didn't get it, he didn't understand, that Ennis was his all along.   

 

[tpe]

But wasn't interesting when Jack put down Alma to Ennis in the Reunion, when they were alone on the the mountain, Ennis didn't take offense to this put down, but pleaded to Jack "It's not her fault".   

If anyone would have said something about Alma, that was less than flattering Ennis would have knock them on their butt,  but he didn't with Jack, he wanted Jack to understand that it wasn't her fault that he was living the way he was.

Ennis took whatever Jack told him to heart,  Jack touch something in Ennis that no one could ever get near.  Ennis could not help himself when it came to Jack.   Jack was his weakness,  Ennis love Jack so deeply so desperately that throughout the years he was the thing he wouldn't let go. 

Jack didn't get it, he didn't understand, that Ennis was his all along.   

I think Jack put down Alma out of an immense sense of bitterness.  He had wanted so badly for Ennis to agree to his plan. 

As for Ennis, I think he recognized that there was some truth embedded in Jack's bitter words, but he felt that they were helpless.    There was clearly some guilt in telling Jack to shut up, because he follows it up with the story of Rich and Earl -- by way of justification.  It was a way of diverting attention to some of the truth in Jack's words: that for Ennis to have a life, he had to have it with Jack, and not Alma.

[manhattangirl]

I think Jack put down Alma out of an immense sense of bitterness.  He had wanted so badly for Ennis to agree to his plan. 

As for Ennis, I think he recognized that there was some truth embedded in Jack's bitter words, but he felt that they were helpless.    There was clearly some guilt in telling Jack to shut up, because he follows it up with the story of Rich and Earl -- by way of justification.  It was a way of diverting attention to some of the truth in Jack's words: that for Ennis to have a life, he had to have it with Jack, and not Alma.

I totally agree.   Ennis in giving into Jack would have to recognize that very part of himself that he wasn't ready to face.   

[welshwitch]

It seems to me that "Jack Nasty" is Alma's (ill-)considered judgement of Jack, made when she saw the reunion kiss and next day, when Jack stood outside leaning on the truck while waiting for Ennis.  In her mind that's what he's been ever since - what seems to be uppermost in her mind, judging form "nasty" is the nature of their relationship, which makes me wonder if Alma isn't less naive than I used to think. She also has experience of Ennis's sexual behavior, which must make it evident to her what Jack's attraction is for Ennis. and in the end there's also plain jealousy - Jack is the man who has taken Ennis away from her, if not literally then metaphorically, and making it worse for her by offering something she can't compete with.

[manhattangirl]

It seems to me that "Jack Nasty" is Alma's (ill-)considered judgement of Jack, made when she saw the reunion kiss and next day, when Jack stood outside leaning on the truck while waiting for Ennis.  In her mind that's what he's been ever since - what seems to be uppermost in her mind, judging form "nasty" is the nature of their relationship, which makes me wonder if Alma isn't less naive than I used to think. She also has experience of Ennis's sexual behavior, which must make it evident to her what Jack's attraction is for Ennis. and in the end there's also plain jealousy - Jack is the man who has taken Ennis away from her, if not literally then metaphorically, and making it worse for her by offering something she can't compete with.

This is exactly the sore that fested inside her all those years after that.   This is what she was lashing out at on Thanksgiving.   

Perfectly said and exactly to the point. 

[jacks_key]

I heard this song today, and I think it fits with the topic here.  It's by Chris Cornell:

The A.M. finds me
Home alone awake in bed
Morning blinds me
Had that dream of you again
Fog is lifting
I realize that you're not here
And how you left me
Life disappeared

Life is rejection
I know you've had your share
But this one's special
I can't compete with her
And did she tell you
Only she could know your mind
And did she sell you
I gotta say it one time

She can be your lover
She can be your friend
She can be your vision of a mother like the one you never had
She will know your troubles better than I can
But she'll never be your man
She'll never be your man
She'll never be your man

She's got you thinking
Of a world where you might fit in
A whole lot better
Than the one you've been living in
And did she tell you
Only she could understand
And did she sell you
Only time will tell

She can be your lover
She can be your friend
She can be your vision of a mother like the one you never had
She will know your troubles better than I can
But she'll never be your man
She'll never be your man
She'll never be your man

She can be your lover
She can be your friend
She can be your vision of a mother like the one you never had
She will know your troubles better than I can
But one thing's for sure
She'll never be your man

She can be your lover
She can be your friend
A vision of a mother like the one you never had
She will know your troubles better than I can
But one thing's for sure
She'll never be your man
She'll never be your man
Never be your man
She'll never be your man
Never be your man
Never be
She'll never be your man

[Rønnaug]

When she saw them kissing, it was the position she saw them in with Jack having Ennis  pinned against the wall , suggesting Jack was the aggressor and in pursuit of her man under pretense of just a friend looking up an old buddy for a few beers

An extremly good point, hadn't occured to me before....