Topic: What was it about Ennis?

[manhattangirl]

"Friend that more word you spoke in the past two weeks",  Jack said to Ennis on Brokeback, Ennis replied, "Hell, that more I spoke in a year",  That always intrigued me.  Why at that moment did Ennis feel secure enough with Jack to speak freely about himself, and why with him?   Alma was already in his life, but Jack was someone he felt he can be open with.

We can say that Ennis may have liked Alma, something of affection for her, but Jack was more becoming a person he was drawn to, enough that he began to let his guard down with, and enough that a trust was beginning to form. 

And Jack recognized this moment, because like Ennis a connection to someone else, another human being was being made.  Something that both men craved and needed and found in each other, apparently no one else up until that moment touched.

So no matter if Alma was there or not there was a part of Ennis that Jack could reach.  IMO. 

[tpe]

This makes sense to me.  Ennis and Alma had already planned to be married before Ennis and Jack met. As quiet as Ennis was about his emotions, I believe that he felt something...affection perhaps...for Alma.  Considering what I understand about that time period and area culture, I can see why Alma fell in love with Ennis. I would even go so far to say that Ennis's outward personality was not unique for that area. Alma probably saw Ennis as a normal guy who wanted to marry and make a life with her.  Had Alma not seen that reunion kiss, it might have been years before she began to wonder what (or who) truly held Ennis's heart.

True, I feel the same way.  Had Alma not seen the kiss, things may have proceeded in a normal fashion -- after all, Ennis did reject Jack's proposal and kept their fishing trips at a minimum -- all for Alma and the children, I suppose.  If you think about it, Ennis and jack really spent very little time with each other.  Knowing how they really felt for each other, they must have conceded a lot.  Certainly, Ennis understood that Alma was blameless when it came to his predicament.

[tpe]

"Friend that more word you spoke in the past two weeks",  Jack said to Ennis on Brokeback, Ennis replied, "Hell, that more I spoke in a year",  That always intrigued me.  Why at that moment did Ennis feel secure enough with Jack to speak freely about himself, and why with him?   Alma was already in his life, but Jack was someone he felt he can be open with.

We can say that Ennis may have liked Alma, something of affection for her, but Jack was more becoming a person he was drawn to, enough that he began to let his guard down with, and enough that a trust was beginning to form. 

And Jack recognized this moment, because like Ennis a connection to someone else, another human being was being made.  Something that both men craved and needed and found in each other, apparently no one else up until that moment touched.

So no matter if Alma was there or not there was a part of Ennis that Jack could reach.  IMO. 

Certainly, it was not in Ennis's nature to hurt anybody -- especially Alma.    His gradually being drawn to Jack was something he couldn't control.  The Reunion kiss itself was something he felt he had no control of whatsoever.  Had Ennis been totally in control of himself, perhaps he would not have been so careless either.

I think that this lack of self-control is also part of that special something about Ennis.  There is a vulnerability to Ennis that Jack and Alma certainly appreciated. Perhaps Jack simply understood this on a much deeper level.  That was why he was less demanding on Ennis.  I think Jack accepted Ennis more who who he really was.

[aintfoolin]

 I agree with this totally tpe. there was a vulnerability to Ennis. Being out of control for Ennis usally has something to do with Jack, otherwise he is meticulously stoic. This is telling.  With Alma, he knew how to be a man in a "normal"  sense. With Jack he had a whole nuther experience to learn ...to be a whole person.  This fact appeals to Ennis,and this allows  Jack to delve deeper into him. He knew Ennis's inner secrets. With Alma he is a husband and father only  in the traditional sense.
 A husband with a good job and children was what she wanted which is understandable, but Ennis was so much more  complicated than that.
 Ennis was married to a woman yes, but he was finding what true love really was with Jack, a man.  Appeared stifled in this marriage until he is packing for a trip to see Jack . only then do we see him energized  to the max, and ( shoving clothes into a duffle bag without care, he is only focused on one thing, getting to where Jack was so he could once again realize his true nature ) ...and his true love. Jack was under his skin.  At these moments it is all about Jack Twist .
. He really let Jack in so that Jack was able to uncover many more layers of Ennis. The idea that Ennis allowed Jack to do this made him more vulnerable to him than he was to Alma.  Jack became more *tuned in* to who Ennis really was. I think both Ennis and Jack loved and embraced the challenge of these new * discoveries* . Alma only knows half, Jack knows the whole of Ennis.
Through Jack, Ennis becomes more aware of his *true nature* and Jack nurtures that part of himself. This is why Ennis needs Jack more than he needs Alma. True love vs affection?... Guess who wins. My take.

[welshwitch]

The sad thing is that as long as he can shut down the most powerful urges in his nature, Ennis can cope with being married to Alma. He just follows thepattern set by other people - maybe his parents, who he must remember, or those he works with/lives near. Once doing the husband and father bit he's like a train on the rails - he just keeps going in the laid-down track. With Jack there are no rules, no paradigms - it's unexpected, unpredictable, terra incognita at first. Their long separations mean that it almost stays like this too - every time they meet is the same thrill over again and for Ennis the same struggle between himself as he thinks he should be and himself as he wants to be.

[aintfoolin]

Great insight into him WW, It's a fascinating sadness that Ennis can resign himself to living with Alma again after these * fishing trips* with Jack, turn his feelings off and on like this.  Carry on as if he has a split personality. And for what? because he can't accept the idea that he maybe gay. What a shame and a waste of his precious life and Jack's too.
And yes, every time he meets up with Jack, he relives those moments on BBM with Jack. This half-life robs himself, Alma and Jack of a whole one. Later , this extends to his girls and Cassie. Alma dictates one part of him, Jack the other. It is a fascinating look into how Ennis controls several lives within his hands and the happiness that could be shared in his own. He is the key to unlocking this mess, but can't seem to bring himself to do it.  Keeps walking that thin line between love and hate of himself. Confusion is the order of the day in this man's otherwise orderly and stoic existence.  I even thinks he wants to very much, but that little voice in his head from his childhood fears stops  everyone in their tracks from realizing true happiness. Everyone suffers because of it. So so  .

[manhattangirl]

Now you can understand Alma attack when she goes after Ennis on Thanksgivings, because of his denials of who he is,  Alma is stuck with a man she may not love, having a child she my not want from him.  Ennis marrying her when he did, after that summer with Jack, robbed Alma of a life with a man that she could love and love her, she was young then, the pain of a break-up is better than years of regret.   

[tpe]

I agree with this totally tpe. there was a vulnerability to Ennis. Being out of control for Ennis usally has something to do with Jack, otherwise he is meticulously stoic. This is telling.  With Alma, he knew how to be a man in a "normal"  sense. With Jack he had a whole nuther experience to learn ...to be a whole person.  This fact appeals to Ennis,and this allows  Jack to delve deeper into him. He knew Ennis's inner secrets. With Alma he is a husband and father only  in the traditional sense.
 A husband with a good job and children was what she wanted which is understandable, but Ennis was so much more  complicated than that.
 Ennis was married to a woman yes, but he was finding what true love really was with Jack, a man.  Appeared stifled in this marriage until he is packing for a trip to see Jack . only then do we see him energized  to the max, and ( shoving clothes into a duffle bag without care, he is only focused on one thing, getting to where Jack was so he could once again realize his true nature ) ...and his true love. Jack was under his skin.  At these moments it is all about Jack Twist .
. He really let Jack in so that Jack was able to uncover many more layers of Ennis. The idea that Ennis allowed Jack to do this made him more vulnerable to him than he was to Alma.  Jack became more *tuned in* to who Ennis really was. I think both Ennis and Jack loved and embraced the challenge of these new * discoveries* . Alma only knows half, Jack knows the whole of Ennis.
Through Jack, Ennis becomes more aware of his *true nature* and Jack nurtures that part of himself. This is why Ennis needs Jack more than he needs Alma. True love vs affection?... Guess who wins. My take.

A part of what you said here struck me: that Ennis more often than not felt STIFLED.  It seemed that Alma never caught on to this, but Jack certainly did from the very beginning.  I think this was part of Jack's attraction to Ennis -- helping him go free from all his pent-up inhibitions.  And I think it surprised Ennis and convinced him that Jack was indeed the one.

 

[aintfoolin]

 Ennis had 4 long years to think.  4 years to ponder and reminisce. He must have done this. He regretted ever letting Jack out of his sights but he was " stuck with what he had". ( the ol' ball and chain syndrome) When he he recieved the postcard from Jack, he must have felt someone above in the heavens had  seen his suffering ,smiled down on him. He had resigned himself to this unfulfilling life until Jack came back. This  is such a powerful scene when he first laid eyes on Jack again. As if the sun came out again on a cloudy day. As he held his "Jack F-ckin Twist" again, the look on his face was one one of profound relief, gratefulness and pure love. He had done what he thought he was supposed to do ( marrying Alma ) , But this was so much more *real* to him than what he had chosen.
 Jack was a personal  and emotional reality for him in a way Alma could'nt be.  Besides, Jack looked ...ahem.. very , very "tasty" in this scene. please , don't get me started , hot damn! , "lil darlin indeed" .. Yum.   My thoughts.

[lamusica]

To me, this scene just kept getting better as it played out.  When they first embraced, it was almost like long-separated friends, but the hug held--- on and on and on.  It seemed as if it were Ennis who squeezed the harder and held on as long as he could until he JUST HAD TO KISS JACK.  After looking around to make sure they weren't being watched, Ennis went for it, damned near attacking Jack.  This is just soooo sexy.  One of my favorite scenes of all. Ennis was just so overcome with happiness, he exuded joy out of every pore in his body.  Yum, yum, I say!

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

... He had resigned himself to this unfulfilling life until Jack came back. This  is such a powerful scene when he first laid eyes on Jack again. As if the sun came out again on a cloudy day. As he held his "Jack F-ckin Twist" again, the look on his face was one one of profound relief, gratefulness and pure love. He had done what he thought he was supposed to do ( marrying Alma ) , But this was so much more *real* to him than what he had chosen.
 Jack was a personal  and emotional reality for him in a way Alma could'nt be.  Besides, Jack looked ...ahem.. very , very "tasty" in this scene. please , don't get me started , hot damn! , "lil darlin indeed" .. Yum.   My thoughts.

What a great way to describe this scene.  I've posted on other threads how much I would love someone to look at me the way Ennis looked at Jack as he pulled up to the apartment.  As repressed as Ennis had been up to that point, seeing Jack seemed to set him free in some way.

[aintfoolin]

What a great way to describe this scene.  I've posted on other threads how much I would love someone to look at me the way Ennis looked at Jack as he pulled up to the apartment.  As repressed as Ennis had been up to that point, seeing Jack seemed to set him free in some way.

CSC, hi friend. This is exactly what I mean. He could see forever in Jack's eyes and v/v. Ennis seemed to be seeing what he had once lost, his past his present and his future....now found again. Ennis was home sweet home. It was so ubelievably romantic. If some one looked at me like this, I'd melt like wax. ..But I'll know it's real. And last but not least, Jack did'nt expect any of this to happen. He had hope  as he "redlined"  it from Texas to there, a hope and a wish. but that's about it. This makes it even more romantic and Jack could exhale. Boy, did he.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Looking at Ennis I tend to believe Alma, Cassie and Jack each saw him as a person who was hard to approach.  We never saw his pre-BBM relationship with Alma.  I have to assume he didn't have a lot to say to her at first. Jack and Cassie both had to initiate conversation and dig up what social skills Ennis possessed.  Once Ennis let his guard down, they could all see that there was a lovable person under Ennis's exterior. All three characters fell for him...and hard.  In the end it was Jack who gained a complete grip on Ennis's heart.

[manhattangirl]

Looking at Ennis I tend to believe Alma, Cassie and Jack each saw him as a person who was hard to approach.  We never saw his pre-BBM relationship with Alma.  I have to assume he didn't have a lot to say to her at first. Jack and Cassie both had to initiate conversation and dig up what social skills Ennis possessed.  Once Ennis let his guard down, they could all see that there was a lovable person under Ennis's exterior. All three characters fell for him...and hard.  In the end it was Jack who gained a complete grip on Ennis's heart.

You're are so right.  Ennis was indeed a lovable person, but it was Jack who was able to touch Ennis real being.  Ennis drawn to Jack, and eventually falling in love with him could never get over the idea that another man was making him feel this things, and what his father taught him about Earl was happening to him. 

[aintfoolin]

I see him as a study in masculinity, but with a soft, quiet vulnerability to him. I agree , all three lovers were attracted to this about him. Two were women, but it was Jack to whom he related the most. He  is the one who brought out the most in Ennis, including a part of him that made him a complete person inside. Secretly he had love for and the need for a man. One man. Jack. He tried to deny it yes, but this was too real  and too strong to for him to resist. Jack was a part of him and he knew it all to good and well. MO.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

aintfoolin, I like your description of Ennis as he was seen by Alma, Cassie, and Jack.  You're right...in the end it was Jack who brought the most out of him.  My heart does go out to Alma and Cassie.  They certainly wanted to bring out more of Ennis than what they received.  Unfortunately for them, they were not able to fight for Ennis on even ground.  I believe Alma knew why she could not win this one.  Cassie didn't appear to have have a clue.  All she knew was that Ennis couldn't give his heart to her. :\'(

[ragtimecowboy]

  Jack was Ennis' match in every way. Ennis made him feel totally alive. He could draw out of him emotions he had never shown or expressed to any one ever before. That is why Jack loved him so. Alma saw Ennis as the the one to share a traditional marriage with. She loved him because he represented security and a future. Little did she realize though, she only was his cover. At first he was her ticket to to her freedom from her way of life at her family home. Later she saw him more or less as a meal ticket, particularly after seeing the reunuion kiss with Jack at the bottom of the steps. and finally as a burden to finally be shucked off in divorce court, after her love for him died. Cassie poor girl loved him because he was aloof to her and a challenge because he wasn't overwhelmingly attracted to her whiles or feminity and he looked pretty good in a pair of well worn jeans

[manhattangirl]

For Ennis to be with Cassie, would Ennis have to go against who he really was?   That's why he withdrew from her so suddenly.

[tpe]

You're are so right.  Ennis was indeed a lovable person, but it was Jack who was able to touch Ennis real being.  Ennis drawn to Jack, and eventually falling in love with him could never get over the idea that another man was making him feel this things, and what his father taught him about Earl was happening to him. 

It would seem that Alma and Cassie did remain ignorant about a deeper part of Ennis's personailty -- a part that perhaps Ennis himself was only vaguely aware of prior to meeting Jack.

I think this part of Ennis's personality was essential for understanding him, and I think this knowledge helped Jack a great deal.  It certainly allowed Jack to see through Ennis's reserve and see him for who he really was.

[tpe]

  Jack was Ennis' match in every way. Ennis made him feel totally alive. He could draw out of him emotions he had never shown or expressed to any one ever before. That is why Jack loved him so. Alma saw Ennis as the the one to share a traditional marriage with. She loved him because he represented security and a future. Little did she realize though, she only was his cover. At first he was her ticket to to her freedom from her way of life at her family home. Later she saw him more or less as a meal ticket, particularly after seeing the reunuion kiss with Jack at the bottom of the steps. and finally as a burden to finally be shucked off in divorce court, after her love for him died. Cassie poor girl loved him because he was aloof to her and a challenge because he wasn't overwhelmingly attracted to her whiles or feminity and he looked pretty good in a pair of well worn jeans

Ennis's aloofness must have been part of Ennis's appeal to Cassie, IMO.  Cassie was certainly attracted to Ennis, and you are perhaps right to say that she also viewed him as a challenge.

[aintfoolin]

It would seem that Alma and Cassie did remain ignorant about a deeper part of Ennis's personailty -- a part that perhaps Ennis himself was only vaguely aware of prior to meeting Jack.

I think this part of Ennis's personality was essential for understanding him, and I think this knowledge helped Jack a great deal.  It certainly allowed Jack to see through Ennis's reserve and see him for who he really was.

I agree. They never knew the "other" Ennis , the one that Jack knew. He kept this part of himself well hidden from the women in his life. His paranoia was for nil imo, I mean ,look at him, who would think just by looking at him that he was in any way attracted to another man? He is the epitomy of what is thoght of generally by society as the total midwestern masculine cowboy. He worried too much.

 

[lamusica]

For Ennis to be with Cassie, would Ennis have to go against who he really was?   That's why he withdrew from her so suddenly.

I think Ennis just got tired of Cassie.  She didn't do it for him.  As he told Jack, she had dreams, and Ennis didn't seem to share them.  I think he saw another marriage like his marriage to Alma in the future if he stuck with Cassie, so he dropped her.  I'm not sure he would have opted to be so cold about dumping her, but he just came back from seeing Jack, so his emotions were in a tumult.  he really didn't care about anybody but Jack at that point.  MHO.

[liketheyallknow]

I think Ennis just got tired of Cassie.  She didn't do it for him.  As he told Jack, she had dreams, and Ennis didn't seem to share them.  I think he saw another marriage like his marriage to Alma in the future if he stuck with Cassie, so he dropped her.  I'm not sure he would have opted to be so cold about dumping her, but he just came back from seeing Jack, so his emotions were in a tumult.  he really didn't care about anybody but Jack at that point.  MHO.

Was he smart enough to see that this was going to be a repeat of the mistake he'd made marrying Alma do you think? (at the time by the campfire when he said was putting the blocks to her ) Or was that beyond Ennis's capabilities - he  was getting tired of her but didn't figure out why? He just sounded so bored with it when he spoke to Jack about her. This seemed quite telling to me - quite deliberate. Was he trying to communicate to Jack that he was struggling in yet another relationship with a woman?

In terms of 'what was it about Ennis', was Ennis's inability to openly convey his feelings an endearing characteristic to Jack - or maybe a challenge to Jack to tease them out - as he had done on Brokeback? Ennis (and Jack) became less and less open with each other over time though, perhaps well before the final confrontation Jack knew he'd never get Ennis to be as open as he once was with him 19 years ago and at the reunion.

Rambling a bit here! And getting annoyed that so much in the way of good times and a sweet life was denied them.

[manhattangirl]

Was he smart enough to see that this was going to be a repeat of the mistake he'd made marrying Alma do you think? (at the time by the campfire when he said was putting the blocks to her ) Or was that beyond Ennis's capabilities - he  was getting tired of her but didn't figure out why? He just sounded so bored with it when he spoke to Jack about her. This seemed quite telling to me - quite deliberate. Was he trying to communicate to Jack that he was struggling in yet another relationship with a woman?

In terms of 'what was it about Ennis', was Ennis's inability to openly convey his feelings an endearing characteristic to Jack - or maybe a challenge to Jack to tease them out - as he had done on Brokeback? Ennis (and Jack) became less and less open with each other over time though, perhaps well before the final confrontation Jack knew he'd never get Ennis to be as open as he once was with him 19 years ago and at the reunion.

Rambling a bit here! And getting annoyed that so much in the way of good times and a sweet life was denied them.

IMO: Jack had Ennis, and Ennis without knowing ended any prospect of being with a woman again. His   sexuality,  he struggle dealing with it, ended with Cassie, there was no use in fighting who he really was, there was no place in his life for her.  You knew this when he talk of her to Jack.

And Jack was there waiting and still loving him.  Ennis's fear of living a life with him was there, to openly admit, to actually recognize it even if was only to Jack who he really is was is the one thing he couldn't do.   

[tpe]

I agree. They never knew the "other" Ennis , the one that Jack knew. He kept this part of himself well hidden from the women in his life. His paranoia was for nil imo, I mean ,look at him, who would think just by looking at him that he was in any way attracted to another man? He is the epitomy of what is thoght of generally by society as the total midwestern masculine cowboy. He worried too much.

Well said, aintfoolin.

To ask the question "what is it about Ennis" is to ask the question "what is it about Jack."  each is one side of the same coin.  What made Ennis so dear to Jack was that Ennis's innermost self lay open to him -- whereas others were kept in the dark.  And this was possible only because of who Jack was.

[manhattangirl]

Well said, aintfoolin.

To ask the question "what is it about Ennis" is to ask the question "what is it about Jack."  each is one side of the same coin.  What made Ennis so dear to Jack was that Ennis's innermost self lay open to him -- whereas others were kept in the dark.  And this was possible only because of who Jack was.

Was he smart enough to see that this was going to be a repeat of the mistake he'd made marrying Alma do you think? (at the time by the campfire when he said was putting the blocks to her ) Or was that beyond Ennis's capabilities - he  was getting tired of her but didn't figure out why? He just sounded so bored with it when he spoke to Jack about her. This seemed quite telling to me - quite deliberate. Was he trying to communicate to Jack that he was struggling in yet another relationship with a woman?

In terms of 'what was it about Ennis', was Ennis's inability to openly convey his feelings an endearing characteristic to Jack - or maybe a challenge to Jack to tease them out - as he had done on Brokeback? Ennis (and Jack) became less and less open with each other over time though, perhaps well before the final confrontation Jack knew he'd never get Ennis to be as open as he once was with him 19 years ago and at the reunion.

Rambling a bit here! And getting annoyed that so much in the way of good times and a sweet life was denied them.

How true are both observation.  As open Ennis was to Jack, he still held back that part of him that Jack wanted so much.  Ennis at the end was too much even for Jack to deal with, but the difference between Jack and the women in Ennis life, the idea of losing Jack bought Ennis to his knees.

[tpe]

How true are both observation.  As open Ennis was to Jack, he still held back that part of him that Jack wanted so much.  Ennis at the end was too much even for Jack to deal with, but the difference between Jack and the women in Ennis life, the idea of losing Jack bought Ennis to his knees.

And this is so true.  It tantalized Jack as much as it frustrated him.  I wonder if the desire for the "unattainable" was also a part of Ennis's mystique, as far as Jack was concerned.  It certainly proved the death of him...

[liketheyallknow]

Yes - the mysterious, unattainable side of stoics is attractive, at first, then it wears thin if you can't break through the armour.  Because of their lack of time together, Jack never had enough time (never enough), to work on him. With their stop-start relationship, he probably had to start afresh every time they met, so couldn't build on progress from the last meeting. And in the end it drove him to despair.

[tpe]

Did Jack really think that he could move Ennis eventually?  I think so.  And yet, he must have relished the challenge, no?  Ennis was a challenge for Jack.  He was the horse that had to be broken in.  The summer of 63 was miraculous for him, I gather.  He probably half-expected to fail, but did get Ennis to open up and reciprocate.  After that, he probably felt too confident.  Alas, tomorrow became never.

[manhattangirl]

 IMO:  Confident?  I don't know how confident Jack really was as far as Ennis was concern.  Especially after Ennis struck him, an unexpected blow that made Jack keep in check and remember this man he was falling in love with had a pressure point. 

And Jack taking the his shirt, he wasn't confident,  he wanted  to hold on to something of his lover.  The shirt and Ennis's blood on it was a recognition that this probably all he'll have of him.