Author Topic: "Reading Brokeback Mountain: Essays on the Story and Film"  (Read 32185 times)

Offline chameau

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Re: "Reading Brokeback Mountain: Essays on the Story and Film"
« Reply #30 on: Nov 08, 2009, 07:52 PM »
You could rolling your eyes over because I have this book and was never able to finish it, boring big time!
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: "Reading Brokeback Mountain: Essays on the Story and Film"
« Reply #31 on: Nov 11, 2009, 09:32 PM »
I'll try this and see what happens. Here's a view . . . .

Essay Number Six
Ennis the radical QUEER (my title)

In this essay Hiram Perez proposes that while most mainstream liberal homos feel that Ennis is one that’s too “restricted” in his approach to life, too bound by his fear of being found out, and that Jack is the one more comfortable with himself and being homosexual – it is really Ennis who is the “queerer” of the two. Jack’s idea of the “sweet life” with Ennis is basically a gay version of the traditional family lifestyle. Two men living together in a more normalized version of what was started on Brokeback. A homestead with one partner out working (herder) and the other staying home doing the chores (camp tender).

Perez proposition is that this is not what Ennis wants at all; he wants a more radical lifestyle – a “queerer” one so to speak. One totally outside the norm and one more akin to the traditional “cowboy” lifestyle of roaming, no home, no permanent job, furtive friendships, occasional sex, and the outdoors. THIS then is the real “queer” and is seen as queer by most of society – not only in  the sexual sense but also in the sense of  being strange – queer. What Ennis really wanted was a MORE radical version of what was started on the mountain. Infrequent couplings with fiery emotional and sexual release, but not a constant companion. Ennis wasn’t able to make it work with Alma, didn’t want it to work with Cassie, and couldn’t get Jack to be satisfied with this type of life.

Isn’t this fascinating? Ennis as the REAL queer, Ennis as the one wanting a truly radical lifestyle totally outside the bounds of what’s considered normal by society. This is what the American cowboy has traditionally been, an outsider.

I’m really condensing his argument here and certainly missing some of his points, but as one of “team Ennis” I find this a really thought provoking view. Huh?


It is interesting to see another point of view, but I disagree.

I can go along with the viewpoint of Ennis as the more "cowboy" nomadic lifestyle while Jack is the more "homestead" lifestyle. However, I see Jack's preference for the home life as more "queer" because Ennis roaming nomadic life is more "manly". Yes, I understand we have fallen into the trap of using stereotypes but if we are going to use labels, we need to at least use them with a sense of logic. Ennis is the "hunter" and the masculine role in the relationship. It was after they switched, with Jack taking the camp-tender role, that their friendship blossomed into something more.

If Jack wanted the sweet life, it would be the role of the woman who nurtures the little animals, caring for the sick and injured, while Ennis would be the ranch hand who goes about taking care of the property, fixing fences, the barns and tents. Ennis is the handy-man to Jack the imaginative dreamer - isn't that a feminine quality? Speaking of stereotypes again, muses are always portrayed as women.

Having said that, I don't agree either of them as more queer than the other, in the sense of their lifestyle choice because there is, in my opinion, no such thing as a queer lifestyle (unless you go to the city, like Denver, and the clubs, like Spike or Dungeon). What they chose were simply what they knew best under those circumstances, in those times, and those settings. If they lived in the city, it would be a different story, literally.

I think a better indication of "queerness" is the number of same-sex partners Jack had, compared to Ennis. There is no question that Jack was more queer than Ennis.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: "Reading Brokeback Mountain: Essays on the Story and Film"
« Reply #32 on: Nov 11, 2009, 09:35 PM »
Yes, quiet indeed! I'd have to say I agree entirely with your overview of the intended audience. After reading the first two or three I was very intrigued by the prospect of what I thought they were trying to do here. Unfortunately by the time I got to No's 8, 9, 10, etc. it began to get a little much, one might even say pedantic or repetitive. Especially, as you say in the post-modernist, queer theory viewpoints that, like you, I'm really unfamiliar with (and really have no interest in). I had to stop, take a breather and then go back. I was also curious as to what other EJ opinions would be. In addition, I felt guilty of sounding so excited by the early essays then feeling almost bored by the later ones. I will try and start some again, but it is difficult reading at times.

No worries, Jackster. I had fun taking apart essay number six. If you have time one cold snowed-in winter evening, feel free to post more summaries and I'd be happy to provide some entertainment.  :c) :cb:
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline jackster

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Re: "Reading Brokeback Mountain: Essays on the Story and Film"
« Reply #33 on: Nov 12, 2009, 06:51 PM »
It is interesting to see another point of view, but I disagree. . . . . .

I think a better indication of "queerness" is the number of same-sex partners Jack had, compared to Ennis. There is no question that Jack was more queer than Ennis.

Dear LC:

I think maybe there is a misunderstanding of my use of “queer” here. I wasn’t really referring to a sexual orientation thing. What I was referring to (and what I think the Essayist was referring to also, though it's been a long time since I read this!) was that queer quality of being odd, eccentric, - unconventional in all aspects. Not just queer in the typical usage that has become predominant in the recent past as being a synonym for homosexual or gay and referencing a persons sexual orientation. The Ennis/Jack, who is more gay? more butch? more fem? top/bottom? discussion is, I think, really separate from this. The fact that Ennis appears to be the more traditionally (stereotypically) dominate male in this pairing blurs this issue, but I'd say it is really beside the point in an analysis of his unconventional (queer) thinking.

Ennis's idea of a sweet life is so totally unconventional (i.e. queer) as to be almost unrecognizable, especially to Jack who thought, in structural terms anyway, of a much more traditional sweet life. That is, for Jack it was a couple living together, sharing a ranch, a house, and a bedroom. It's not at all clear that Ennis actually understood the radical nature of his own view; I'd have to say that he almost certainly didn't. But I am fascinated by this view of Ennis, in his extremely pragmatic thinking, trying to figure out a way to meld a free roaming, cowboy lifestyle with a long-term meaningful relationship with an individual man.

I see Ennis's thinking going sort of like this: “Two men can't live together, we'll be dead. Being a cowboy is all I know, and wanna’ know. So the only way to make this work is to see each other every now and then way the hell out in the middle of nowhere. That oughta' work.” Yes, that’ll work if you can get the other person to go along.

I feel that even today, with our (supposedly) more enlightened more modern eyes, it may still be difficult for many people to recognize or accept this type of long-distance, infrequent relationship has having much real meaning or significance. Maybe one reason there's so much crying at the end of the movie, many feel they never had the opportunity to have a "real" relationship. Some who do consider this as a meaningful relationship might possibly be thought odd and unusual – i.e. queer. Believe me, as you're aware, I have some experience. It would not matter if it is a man-man, man-woman, or woman-woman relationship. The relationship Ennis had in mind, or at least the only way he could imagine the relationship with Jack working, was this truly unconventional "queer" arrangement. IMHO.

Thanks for prompting me to rethink this idea yet again Andrew. Maybe if I get snowed in (alone) this winter I will try and dig it out and read a few more essays.
we get to drinkin' and talkin' an all

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: "Reading Brokeback Mountain: Essays on the Story and Film"
« Reply #34 on: Nov 12, 2009, 08:35 PM »
Dear LC:

I think maybe there is a misunderstanding of my use of “queer” here. I wasn’t really referring to a sexual orientation thing. What I was referring to (and what I think the Essayist was referring to also, though it's been a long time since I read this!) was that queer quality of being odd, eccentric, - unconventional in all aspects. Not just queer in the typical usage that has become predominant in the recent past as being a synonym for homosexual or gay and referencing a persons sexual orientation. The Ennis/Jack, who is more gay? more butch? more fem? top/bottom? discussion is, I think, really separate from this. The fact that Ennis appears to be the more traditionally (stereotypically) dominate male in this pairing blurs this issue, but I'd say it is really beside the point in an analysis of his unconventional (queer) thinking.

Ennis's idea of a sweet life is so totally unconventional (i.e. queer) as to be almost unrecognizable, especially to Jack who thought, in structural terms anyway, of a much more traditional sweet life. That is, for Jack it was a couple living together, sharing a ranch, a house, and a bedroom. It's not at all clear that Ennis actually understood the radical nature of his own view; I'd have to say that he almost certainly didn't. But I am fascinated by this view of Ennis, in his extremely pragmatic thinking, trying to figure out a way to meld a free roaming, cowboy lifestyle with a long-term meaningful relationship with an individual man.

I see Ennis's thinking going sort of like this: “Two men can't live together, we'll be dead. Being a cowboy is all I know, and wanna’ know. So the only way to make this work is to see each other every now and then way the hell out in the middle of nowhere. That oughta' work.” Yes, that’ll work if you can get the other person to go along.

I feel that even today, with our (supposedly) more enlightened more modern eyes, it may still be difficult for many people to recognize or accept this type of long-distance, infrequent relationship has having much real meaning or significance. Maybe one reason there's so much crying at the end of the movie, many feel they never had the opportunity to have a "real" relationship. Some who do consider this as a meaningful relationship might possibly be thought odd and unusual – i.e. queer. Believe me, as you're aware, I have some experience. It would not matter if it is a man-man, man-woman, or woman-woman relationship. The relationship Ennis had in mind, or at least the only way he could imagine the relationship with Jack working, was this truly unconventional "queer" arrangement. IMHO.

Thanks for prompting me to rethink this idea yet again Andrew. Maybe if I get snowed in (alone) this winter I will try and dig it out and read a few more essays.


 :s) hmmm...yes, I see your distinction here, queer as in the original meaning of the word, not Queer.

I am not sure which side I stand on this issue of Ennis having queer idea of the sweet life. On the one hand, it is not at all uncommon for men to have a wife, and a mistress or two. In 'em earlier days, when gays had to remain in the closet, it was not uncommon for men to have their buddies and the wives turning the other way. What made Ennis stand out, in my opinion, was his deliberate or unconscious sabotage of his marriage to Alma. If there wasn't that kiss at the stairs...if he had taken on that job at the power plant...if he had brought home a fish or two. It seems Ennis just didn't care to put any effort into his marriage with Alma. This is in contrast to Jack, who did everything he needed, from being a father to Bobby, being the best combine salesman, and a good husband to Loreen in every way, except perhaps in bed.

I think Jack's idea of ranching together with Ennis, is ironically the queer one, given the traditional concept of husband and wife and family. Perhaps, being a queer idea of the sweet life as Queers make Jack's idea paradoxically less queer.  :s) ::) Does that make sense? Two negatives make a positive?

In the end, I think Ennis and Jack needed to strike out as originals and map out their relationship in their own way. There ain't no precedent or pattern to follow. Ennis was afraid to death of following in the footsteps of Earl and Rich. But times are always changing, so all Ennis needed to do was to follow the times to a better future, instead of following the fears of the past.

I cannot speak to the viability of long-term long distance relationships or a-few-times-a-year relationships since I have not any experience that matter. I suspect it is probably difficult because it will only work for two people with characteristics that are similar to Ennis, the introverted self-sufficient loner, which make their mutual attraction highly unlikely. Their passion stems from the differences between them. One of them is bound to need the other more than a few times a year. The question here, I believe, is the reason for the infrequent queer sweet life. If they were both married with children and they had to stay with their families for the sake of the children, I guess that's one thing. If it were just to placate the irrational homophobic fears planted by Ennis' father long ago, then I think Jack had a responsibility to help Ennis along in his emotional growth and evolution, to be freed from the shackles of fear. That's why Jack was singing king of the hill on his drive up from Texas after the divorce. He was seeing the potential for change. But when Ennis slammed the door on his face, his hope faded, and his whole personality changed - becoming more cynical and bitter.

So whose sweet life was more queer? I think they were both unique, both queer, but Jack's was certainly more stable and happy.

I suppose I see Ennis struggling to be rid of his queerness, but couldn't. And in a sense, I think it would have been better for him to embrace his own uniqueness, as he would be encouraged to do today, and as Jack undoubtedly did on Brokeback that summer, finding friendship where none was expected, respecting each other. Once he were to overcome his fears, then he would have the sweet life. Perhaps that was the point of riding a piece of stock for eight seconds, to help develop the courage needed to face 'em other intangible, more sinister fears with no names, no reins. 'em rodeo cowboys were NOT all f@#@-ups ... after all.  :c)
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline jackster

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Re: "Reading Brokeback Mountain: Essays on the Story and Film"
« Reply #35 on: Nov 13, 2009, 08:30 AM »
I suppose I see Ennis struggling to be rid of his queerness, but couldn't. And in a sense, I think it would have been better for him to embrace his own uniqueness, as he would be encouraged to do today . . .

Yup.
If you can't fix it Jack, you gotta' stand it.
He'd sure been better off he'd hadn't thought he was broke to begin with. But his dad taught him he was broke, never got over it, but he was able to stand it.
we get to drinkin' and talkin' an all

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: "Reading Brokeback Mountain: Essays on the Story and Film"
« Reply #36 on: Nov 13, 2009, 03:00 PM »
Yup.
If you can't fix it Jack, you gotta' stand it.
He'd sure been better off he'd hadn't thought he was broke to begin with. But his dad taught him he was broke, never got over it, but he was able to stand it.

Ain't that the truth. Ennis was the kind who holds on to whatever he has and never let go. If he'd only learn to let go a little faster, once in a while, so he can grab on to something more worthwhile in life...

...letting go of being broke, and get that better job at the power company,

...letting go of being stuck in Riverton, and move to Denver or Lightning Flat,

...letting go of that horrific memory of Earl and Rich, and start a sweet life together with Jack.

No, he couldn't let go when he needed to, and now he's stuck in Riverton, broke with only memories of Jack.  :(

The lesson here is to learn to reach out more often, and maybe catch a star or two.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.