Topic: Coping mechanisms and communications

[aintfoolin]

Let's face it. Both their coping mechanisms were clearly defined.
Ennis:   a pattern of withdrawing from the situation, when faced with certain realities about himself and his relationship with Jack wishing and hoping the" thing" or  situation just disappears.  As long as he does'nt see or hear it , it doe'nt exists.A slow withdrawl from Alma in the marriage. When fishing trips came up, Alma knew she was in 2nd place  to Jack with her husband.  

 Jack:   Backs off or down accepting rejection from Ennis and his father, but takes it all into himself. Tells himself that every thing will be alright and that he can deal, , but deep down he  knows he can't and it won't.  It builds up inside  in the form of frustration until it explodes or manifests itself physically through Jack's sense of low self esteem and he finds  himself seeking comfort any where he can find it.

 Now,  I'm no therapist, but this pattern Ennis has of withdrawing suprisingly has a way of coming back around to him giving in to what he knows he can't deny, no matter how scary it seems at first. We saw it in FNIT, SNIT, and the reunion scenes and even early on, when Jack got him to say" the most he spoke within a year" , so Ennis is aware of himself and what Jack does to him and we know Jack is quite capable of taking the bull by the horns.
 
To me this is the key to Ennis. He had to know that each time he pushed Jack away, that he was doing just that, pushing Jack further away until Jack found his own coping mechanisms kicking in.  Jack got what he desired of Ennis  only when he was persistent and consistent and did'nt back down  one iota from what he wanted from him.  Imo there were many opportunites where Jack could have communicated  in a way with Ennis so that he would jump off this cliff with him  instead of dragging a horse to water and hoping or assuming he will drink,  test his theory ,as he did in FNIT Ennis was scared sh-tless , yes he was , but he took the plunge into the unknown and what did he find with Jack's persistence?  Himself.  If it took a little terrifying challenge on Ennis's part, so be it. Without demanding,  CHALLENGE HIM  for godssake. Jack was afraid of being  too forceful with Ennis, but some one like  Ennis needs this sometimes imo.

This is why I believe that  after the confrontation when Jack finally let Ennis have it, right there, in his face, Ennis's coping mechanism of withdrawl was not allowed to kick in  because Jack hit him over the head with the truth of the matter and  he came face to face with his fear and the truth about what it was doing to both of them.. he broke down in final a truthful confession." I can't take this anymore Jack" ( take what? lying to himself? or give up on  doing everthing he can to hold on to the one person he can't do without, loving Jack? which is it. I doubt it is the latter. Even so while Ennis is at this vulnerable point, and crying, so what, he's  a grown man ,not a chinadoll, ASK HIM .
 
It's the moment of unspoken truth that must be spoken now WHAT"S IT GONNA BE? Jack was giving  him no more *outs*  no more excuses, he needed  to hear a new beginning or an end  to this thing at this point.  Jack had a dream, and was prepared himself to give it up, having no gaurantee he'd get the answer he wanted , but this ambiguous answer imo was not satisfactory.  Ennis knew he  had to make a decision one way or the other. He  loved Jack with all his heart, felt protective of him, but Ennis needed sometimes to be taken by the hand  ( and it must only be Jack, no one else) and led to the edge before he jumps. He's never going to do it on his own. A pattern shows that once he is led to take a leap of faith in himself , the water feels just fine. I suspect Jack knows this.

Jack had his fears but concerning the survival of the dream he had, imo  he must communicate clearly to Ennis about what was happening to them, and develop a sensible alternative to counteract Ennis's fear of a commitment to him. Ennis needs proof that they will be alright. Otherwise Ennis , left to his own accord will always have time to let his fears win this thing. I may sound cruel in my *theraputic* theories/opinions  ,but Jack deserved a good reason after 20 long years of waiting and coping. These are only my opinions.  Others in the film had coping mechanisms  to the events around them too. Alma, Lureen, and even Mr. Twist. What were they?  Any one dare?

[welshwitch]

It seems to me that they all cope as most of us do, by creating a partial version of reality that they can live with. Alma buries herself in, maybe is buried by, cooking, washing, child-care and later a part-time job.She knows from the summer of 1967 that there is a fracture the size of Grand Canyon in her marriage but she doggedly sticks with it till it all becomes more than she can stand, and till she has an alternative, in which new life she seems to be recreating what she's always wanted - bourgeois suburban domestic contentment, I suppose. In some ways she's a paradigmatic American 50s housewife. Lureen, on the other hand, is an 80s women - prepared to go into a male-dominated world and accept its methods and values, part of the "greed is good" culture where all that matters is the size of the bottom line. She puts all her energies into the family business and shuts her mind to everything else. Both mothers in the movie seem to function in similar ways; both exist in the shadow of dominant husbands. Both husbands cope by assuming an overly macho style, determined to be master in their own homes if nowhere else. Again, LD is more part of the future, profit-and business-minded, while John Twist is more of the past, the sole owner of a failing ranch trapped in a dying way of life. Both have to see themsleves as powerful and in charge - ironically LD seems to be no more successful than his daughter as far as making money is concerned, and JT is certainly no success as a rancher.
All of them conform to stereotypes to a greater or lesser degree and all seem to live out these stereotypes as a means of handling life - Ennis and Jack are different, but IMO while Ennis tries to cling to the old stereotype,Jack alone  is strong enough to abandon it stereotype and look for a new way. Jack doesn't cope by trying to be what society, family, friends expect him to be.

[aintfoolin]

Thank you WW for your right on 'inside look' into each of these character. I love your posts and learn something new every time. It is true that we all have this built in within us. A way all our own of coping in our day to day lives, Even the passion on this forum maybe a coping mechanism for some after veiwing this powerful fim. For those of us who's lives, gay or straight have been , or is paralelle with this story, it is a godsend.

 Having said that, I agree with all the characterizations you have brought forth. Alma particularly sticks out in my mind. I've tried to understand how she coped after seeing what she saw. She knew she was sharing, that her husband had put her love in competion with Jack. Yet she stayed. had to suppress her fears and anger while  continuing to be the " dutiful wife". I feel she still loved Ennis as she always had,but she had to realize her marriage was a sham. This man stirs something in Ennis she could never understand. How she coped is beyond me.
Lureen is a different story. A *society princess* with just a touch of rebellion towards her rich father. Jack, living on coins at the time comes into her life. He's a handsome bullrider with all the attributes she desires she persues him. She wanted him, obvisously against her daddy's wishes, marries him.
This brings me to Jack. He soon feels the rejection and isolation of having a wife who is caught up into her work rather than her fam. and finds himself working for the busness and picking up Lureen's slack concerning their son. She has no idea what's going on. Jack is being squeezed under her father's thumb and Jack, the freebird is now feeling stifled and used. I wonder if she ever found out that Jack was considering being *paid off* to get lost.
Jack takes a little trip up north to seek what he once had with Ennis Del Mar, a peice of work forever in progress, via postcard and alot of hope. This is who Jack wants, he's who Jack dreams of . His real completion.
 Ennis had Jack in a category of his own, and then there was the rest of society.  For 20 years he has things as he must have  them. Nights of passion with Jack in the "middle of nowhere"  to saitate the part of himself he has come to accept and can no longer ignore. The part that needs Jack . only to retreat back into Society" as a the epidtomie of masculinity and "normalcy" .
 His secrets are safe with an increasingly frustrated Jack who is tired of this two world existence. Too much energy is required to maintain this double life facade until even he, Jack, the one who kept the fires burning for so long became disillusioned. prepared himself to face the facts finally that his dream  of a life with this man was bound to die. That's excruciatingly hard to do.

Imo they both dug their holes deeper when they married. Trying to conform to a closed minded society complicated their lives in ways they could'nt conceive. So as you said they created this space between reality and the web of lies and and half-truths in order to  cope and survive.



 

[LuvJackNasty]

Having said that, I agree with all the characterizations you have brought forth. Alma particularly sticks out in my mind. I've tried to understand how she coped after seeing what she saw. She knew she was sharing, that her husband had put her love in competion with Jack. Yet she stayed. had to suppress her fears and anger while  continuing to be the " dutiful wife". I feel she still loved Ennis as she always had,but she had to realize her marriage was a sham. This man stirs something in Ennis she could never understand. How she coped is beyond me.
 

First- great posts!

You'd be surprised at what lies you tell yourself when you want to make things work. That is only a bandaid because something will always inevitably give no matter what you tell yourself.

I loved the characterizations on Jack and Ennis. I agree that Jack needed to challenge Ennis as that was the "language" he understood best.  I think (and I may have mentioned this elsewhere once upon a time- I forget what I post here and what was done in discussion off board) that Jack's upbringing had a lot to do with why he put up with Ennis's refusals and came back for more. I think he learned early on to "not rock the boat." Here he had this one man who did love him, for him. He didn't have to be the good son or son in law. He could just be Jack. Ennis saw the man inside and that was powerful to Jack. I also think that that lonely, hard childhood made him into the dreamer and later on when that dream was right before him he dug in and wasn't going to let it go even if he had to deny himself what he truly wanted. A piece of the dream was better than not having it, IMO.

[lamusica]

Yes, I think we all tell ourselves lies to keep our lives from unraveling around us.  Alma knew the truth deep down in her heart, but she had two little kids dependent on her and no real skills to make a living for them. What was she going to do?  People in her time and place wouldn't consider welfare or asking for help.  She would not have considered telling anyone about Ennis, so eschewed counseling of any kind.  She was stuck.  So, she lied to herself everytime he approached her.  She knew she was not his first choice, but she was there and she would have to do.  I feel great sorrow for Alma.  I am just happy that she finally got away after twelve years and got a steady man who probably really did love her.  At least there wasn't anyone else vying for his love.  She was his wife and she felt secure with him -- financially and psychologically.  She had made some big compromises, but finally came out OK in the end.  (Of course, that doesn't mean she didn't still love Ennis on some level, perhaps???)

[tpe]

It's funny that you bring this up, when I have been thinking about my own coping mechanisms that have kicked in over the last few days.

In a sense, I understand bettwe Jack's way of coping, as you described it here.  The question is always the same: when is one too aggressive and needs to back down and compromise, and when is one too soft and not considerate.

It si a hard balancing act, and compromise may never be found, if the other party is not interested.  The trick is reading the other party correctly, and this could wear you down.

Ennis was a very difficult read, and I am sure that the years of waiting and searching wore down Jack.  The frustration and disappointment manifested itself in many ways over the years: in drinking, in seeking out temporary liasons, etc.  In the end, nothing could make him cope -- he had reached a point when a decision had to be made.  It tore his heart, but perhaps he honestly thought it was for the best.

[aintfoolin]

Yes, I think we all tell ourselves lies to keep our lives from unraveling around us.  Alma knew the truth deep down in her heart, but she had two little kids dependent on her and no real skills to make a living for them. What was she going to do?  People in her time and place wouldn't consider welfare or asking for help.  She would not have considered telling anyone about Ennis, so eschewed counseling of any kind.  She was stuck.  So, she lied to herself everytime he approached her.  She knew she was not his first choice, but she was there and she would have to do.  I feel great sorrow for Alma.  I am just happy that she finally got away after twelve years and got a steady man who probably really did love her.  At least there wasn't anyone else vying for his love.  She was his wife and she felt secure with him -- financially and psychologically.  She had made some big compromises, but finally came out OK in the end.  (Of course, that doesn't mean she didn't still love Ennis on some level, perhaps???)

Yes, I think the children figured largely into how she coped with her pain, They adored their father,and Alma had to find a way to explain why daddy was no longer around. It's hard, but she made it thank's to Monroe...but coping with this, she had to blame somebody for her predicament. She knew Ennis,( or thought she did), but knew only a tiny bit about Jack. Her term, "Jack Nasty" somehow tells me she blamed him more.

 He had stolen Ennis's heart from her in a way that left her powerless, she had no counter weapon to this.  She knew Jack was married and cheating on his own wife with Ennis, and Ennis brought Jack into he and Alma's most intimate moments. Alma had to put 2and2 together, the way Ennis wanted her in bed..but where did he come from?
 This is  some one Ennis had known for some time and the classic "fishin buddiy" explanation no longer sufficed in terms of who Jack really was to her husband. I am  still dumfounded that she stayed as long as she did. She had people around her to confide in, family, church etc. , but on the other hand, how could she explain  to others what she can't expain it to herself?

[lamusica]

I really think most women would keep something like that to themselves rather than share their feelings with others openly.  She wouldn't want to be embarrassed or embarrass Ennis, for that matter.  This was so private that she would suffer alone with her secret.  I'm sure, too, that she blamed Jack.  Her whole tone when she confronted Ennis while doing the dishes plainly spoke of that.  Ennis wasn't innocent, but it was that Jack Nasty that ruined Ennis, in her mind.  Who knows, maybe she and Ennis would have tired of each other in the long run anyway.  As it stands, she just never suspected that Ennis had anything going on the side other than she herself.  What a shock.  I still think her face, when she saw Ennis and Jack kissing, was so completely surprised.  She actually couldn't take it in at first.  (Great acting in this scene, for sure!)

[welshwitch]

It's always how one copes if an unknown third party's involved - much easier to demonize them because you can in your mind make them as bad as you want - it also excuses you and the other person involved from blame. Alma evidently sees Jack just as she'd see "the other woman" if Ennis were involved with one - it would require super-human qualities to look kindly on someone you saw as a rival and who might in Alma's case remove her only means of financial support from her.

[tpe]

It's the easier way out, no?  To villify is much earier to deal with than to make distinctions.  It sustains people in time of war.  It makes failure bearable.

[aintfoolin]

These are both excellent posts Tpe and WW. But do you think Jack thought this way to a certain extent. He was also coping with some serious stuff, with LD, Lureen and all the feelings of rejection and constantly having to live up to their standards while all the time longing for true love and acceptance.
 At some point did he and Alma think in the same terms about who Ennis really belonged to?  He knew Ennis was married when he returned in the reunion scene. Did he come back thinking he was going to re-claim what was his from the start. I know he did'nt expect the reception he got from Ennis, but what was Jack thinking BEFORE he sent the postcard? He had hope , what was that hope for ? to pick up where they left off as they did, or  did Jack come back , as the postcard implied just to look up an old friend. He started out with : Friend, This letter is *long overdue* This to means that Jack, although living a miserable life of luxury never gave up that he would get back with Ennis again.
Took a chance and it paid off big time. How he coped with the Newsomes for as long as he did again , is beyond me. I suppose they both loved their wives in some way , but in these marriages, these women, Alma nor Lureen never really had their man to begin with.  Certainly not in the way they thought they did. The husbands were deeply in love with each other ,not them.

[tpe]

These are both excellent posts Tpe and WW. But do you think Jack thought this way to a certain extent. He was also coping with some serious stuff, with LD, Lureen and all the feelings of rejection and constantly having to live up to their standards while all the time longing for true love and acceptance.
 At some point did he and Alma think in the same terms about who Ennis really belonged to?  He knew Ennis was married when he returned in the reunion scene. Did he come back thinking he was going to re-claim what was his from the start. I know he did'nt expect the reception he got from Ennis, but what was Jack thinking BEFORE he sent the postcard? He had hope , what was that hope for ? to pick up where they left off as they did, or  did Jack come back , as the postcard implied just to look up an old friend. He started out with : Friend, This letter is *long overdue* This to means that Jack, although living a miserable life of luxury never gave up that he would get back with Ennis again.
Took a chance and it paid off big time. How he coped with the Newsomes for as long as he did again , is beyond me. I suppose they both loved their wives in some way , but in these marriages, these women, Alma nor Lureen never really had their man to begin with.  Certainly not in the way they thought they did. The husbands were deeply in love with each other ,not them.

I suspect that Jack had his sights set on getting Ennis to share a life with him.  Perhaps this (his dream of having a life together) was also a way of coping wkith the situation, no?  While he had that hope, he could wait.