Topic: Would you change the sex scenes and, if so, how...?

[sportstalk23]

I would make the FNIT just a little longer  ;)you know just to see how it was that Jack ended up so knocked out and sleeping so peacefully Ive always wondered what happened just after they had sex whatever it was would be entertaining

I would like to see more in the SNIT because the movie implies that just after they got out of the tent notice both were halfway undressed hmmm Ennis went in wearing a shirt Jack wasnt but they both were shirtless we got cheated to an entire love scene in SNIT which would have been completely off the charts

and speaking off the sexiest game of tag I've ever seen that I refuse to let that skeevy perv Aguirre ruin for me I would like to have seen what when on after Jack pulled Ennis on top of him since the SS said they were boning each other quite a bit in the outdoors as well as the tent it would be nice to see exactly who initiates what where and how and I agree that loves scenes of E&J as older men would have been great to see because dammit those hugs got me every time

[babytammy7]

I and I agree that loves scenes of E&J as older men would have been great to see because dammit those hugs got me every time

They got me everytime too!!  I agree with you here!! 

[sportstalk23]

They got me everytime too!!  I agree with you here!! 

see I knew I wasnt the only one especially the Reunion hug geez it was like 8 things could happen just with that one hug

[smartestsonia]

Well , I was thinking about the sex scenes between Ennis and Alma. Hot or not? It looked like traditional sex to me, until Ennis flips her over. Shows how much Ennis craved this type of sex I believe. I  suppose he thought about Jack with these goings on. I wonder if she equated ( the way Ennis took her) ,with Jack after she saw them kiss. According to the SS she did not enjoy it. "This is why Ennis wants it this way", It's the way he does with Jack.  As seemingly naive as she was, she had to figure this out. She now has to deal with not only the emotional trauma, but the sexual aspects as well. A place where she can't compete even if she wanted to.  ..but she remained the "dutiful" wife for some time. Just a thought.

I completey agree..that is why he flips Alma over ...very true.. He did crave for the type of Sex he had with Jack...
the FNIT is impulsive, rough and with the flow..
In the latter half of the film they were shown holding each other and sleeping in the tent..I wish that scene was more despcriptive in any way..maybe just staring at each other for a longer time or talking or just cuddling each other...
However, this move is from Anne's and the Ang Lee's Perspective and what they have shown is superb.

[tpe]

I completey agree..that is why he flips Alma over ...very true.. He did crave for the type of Sex he had with Jack...
the FNIT is impulsive, rough and with the flow..
In the latter half of the film they were shown holding each other and sleeping in the tent..I wish that scene was more despcriptive in any way..maybe just staring at each other for a longer time or talking or just cuddling each other...
However, this move is from Anne's and the Ang Lee's Perspective and what they have shown is superb.

I think the latter scene was done that way top show how comfortable they had become with each other.

My old deceased friend Robert loved that latter scene the most of all the scenes where they were together -- because they showed them like what it would be "growing old" in their love.  He actually said that he would have found kissing and cuddling in that scene a distraction -- but that was just him.  However, I wonder whether this feeling would be shared by the older viewers of BBM, because I had another elderly friend (slightly younger than Robert) say the same thing about this scene...

[smartestsonia]

I think the latter scene was done that way top show how comfortable they had become with each other.

My old deceased friend Robert loved that latter scene the most of all the scenes where they were together -- because they showed them like what it would be "growing old" in their love.  He actually said that he would have found kissing and cuddling in that scene a distraction -- but that was just him.  However, I wonder whether this feeling would be shared by the older viewers of BBM, because I had another elderly friend (slightly younger than Robert) say the same thing about this scene...

Tpe, Thats also a good point of view of growing old in love and it makes sense ...what do u personally think about it??...I agree that its right that in latter half there r no rough and impulsive scenes...
they r comfortable with each other and the love shows anyways

[pattyjean]

I would change one scene--the one when Jack and Ennis first arrived at the motel:  It wouldn't have to be too graphic, but just showing the beginning of wild uncontrolled "four-years-of-waiting" erotic sex would have been superb, especially after viewing the reunion embrace and "best on-screen kiss of 2005"!

[tpe]

Tpe, Thats also a good point of view of growing old in love and it makes sense ...what do u personally think about it??...I agree that its right that in latter half there r no rough and impulsive scenes...
they r comfortable with each other and the love shows anyways

Personally, I also appreciate the level of comfort that we see in that scene.  It was the closest we ever got to see them in quasi-domestic bliss.  In it, the passion had retreated a bit, but the love still burned.

[tpe]

I would change one scene--the one when Jack and Ennis first arrived at the motel:  It wouldn't have to be too graphic, but just showing the beginning of wild uncontrolled "four-years-of-waiting" erotic sex would have been superb, especially after viewing the reunion embrace and "best on-screen kiss of 2005"!

I know what you mean.  I recall the motel scene in Latte Days, for example -- not too explicit, but beautifully done.

[smartestsonia]

Personally, I also appreciate the level of comfort that we see in that scene.  It was the closest we ever got to see them in quasi-domestic bliss.  In it, the passion had retreated a bit, but the love still burned.

agree...the love will always be there wherever they may be..ever...
well thats what made it a mature love story in the 2nd half...
although I feel that Jack did want to be more in Ennis life...
Just wanted to be there...am not saying physical but emotionally and he wanted to just belong to him and be a part of his bigger part of his life....

[tpe]

agree...the love will always be there wherever they may be..ever...
well thats what made it a mature love story in the 2nd half...
although I feel that Jack did want to be more in Ennis life...
Just wanted to be there...am not saying physical but emotionally and he wanted to just belong to him and be a part of his bigger part of his life....

I think the level of comfort that scene showed is appreciated even more when we do realize that the relationship was far from perfect even in that late stage.  But that is so much like life and RL relationships, no?  It is hard not to be moved by the recognition -- for any one of us here who had ever been through a relationship that lasted in spite of all adversities.

[smartestsonia]

I think the level of comfort that scene showed is appreciated even more when we do realize that the relationship was far from perfect even in that late stage.  But that is so much like life and RL relationships, no?  It is hard not to be moved by the recognition -- for any one of us here who had ever been through a relationship that lasted in spite of all adversities.

ya,, in real life no relation is 100% perfect..we all need to work on it..and so did they but that does not matter...love never sees perfection..it just sees and feels love...

So much they could have changed about the past... but it does not matter as whatever they experienced kept them going..they never strived to gain perfection in their love..they just wanted to feel that love...

[myprivatejack]

I remember having talked about this last scene in the tent in these elder years like an scene of quieter,more relaxed love;as it'd correspond to a feeling that has had years to develop,letting aside the raw passion of the beginning and/ or the youngest age to leave space to a main knowledge,tenderness and...routine?.In this sense,I think it's perfect the way their elder years are shown,even if we've already repeated that it'd be better showing some more affection proofs,like kisses.
But not only this,but in general sex scenes reflect very well the different characters feelings and reactions; Ennis and Alma's seem in the end having fallen into routine,almost duty; Jack and Lureen's are fairly more cheerful and carefree than the other couple in the beginning,but in the end is also not only a routine or a duty,but they almost don't exist.And Ennis and Jack's reflect the repressed desire and passion they felt for each other,both in the mountain and in the reunion scene; and this easy love and affection that comes after this initial  passion I've spoken before.The rest are only some little appreciations that wouldn't change the real and main demonstration of these feelings,IMO.

[FlwrChild]

I agree about the second half of the film showing their comfort level with each other through the years, and I remember other scenes that showed the same thing. I love the look on Jack's face as he sees Ennis arrive in the "Yer late" scene, and then the practically serene hapiness on Ennis's face as he turns from the truck toward Jack.

I also think the way their campsites are set up and they seem to have a routine that is almost second nature to them indicates their growing intimacy during those years. I imagine that scene of them snuggling in the tent was a reflection of many other nights that had gone before. It's one of my favorite scenes because in just a short moment, it shows us so much:

- they're not just about the sex (which we knew) but the complete intimacy of two people who love each other

- they're still spooning after all those years; making use of every possible opportunity to be close while they can

- even when they can't express their feelings to each other through words, they can instinctively come together in a loving embrace

- and even when they're frustrated or hurt by the relationship, they always end up in each other's arms at the end of day



And I realize that wasn't so much about the sex scenes, but I guess my answer to whether I'd change any of them is no because I think they gave us a good balance of raw passion, desperate embraces and quiet, enduring love. Of course, I wouldn't object to a few more of them, but I guess some people wouldn't have wanted a 6 hour movie.

[Matt Nasty]

who wouldnt want a 6 hour movie...id pay alot of money to watch a 7 hour BBM ith all the sex

[babytammy7]

I ADORE that late scene where we see them cuddle, Ennis with his arm around Jack’s torso. I think it’s soft, tender and show us how much they cared about each other no matter what problems they had, how much they needed to “feel” each other in spite of all the hurt and disappoint they could live just a few moments before.

But I disagree with the perception some of you have about this showing us how much their relationship was less passionate, quieter or even more monotonous. I think we only are seeing them sleeping, but what happened before of that or even after when they woke up is another story…. They loved each other something fierce, with wild passion and that didn’t lessen with the time passing by. The very own Jack said that he needed more than a couple of F**ks a year, and we know how raw and blind Ennis can be. I think that before of that scene they made love with the same unstoppable strength as always. They were unable to say each other I love you…They were unable to talk openly about their feelings….They were unable to live with each other…So the only way they had to show their endless love for each other was sex, with their hands and lips. 20 years mean routine? Nah, not when you only see the person who has your very heart and soul twice a year. I bet when they saw each other that first day of every fishing trip they kisses and f**ked the living lights out of each other for hours!!

They grew old, Jack became bitterer and Ennis more tortured, but the only thing that never, never changed was their love expressed through burning, incandescent, incendiary lovemaking. Annie said that they had sex that night, rolling on the floor, not even wasting time to get in the tent!!! And when they were talking Annie wrote how Jack’s hands was between Ennis’ leg and Ennis was pulling Jack close to him, so they were unable to take their hands away from each other not even when they were talking about their children. For me that speaks about passion loud and clear.

Annie is the mother of these cowboys; she knows them better than anyone and she used this line to define their sex when they made love near the fire just right before the scene we are talking about here:

One thing never changed: the brilliant charge of their infrequent couplings was darkened by the sense of time flying, never enough time, never enough

How can you fall into the routine when you only get to be with the one you love twice or three miserable times a year? They couldn't get enough from each other during those 16 years of fishing trips, just like it was in the reunion scene. Like Annie said, never enough. Thanks. 

[FlwrChild]

Oh I completely agree, Tammy. I don't think their deepening intimacy and comfort with each other was a substitute for their passion, just another layer to their relationship.

I don't think their passion would still have been so intense after all those years either if they were only in it for the sex, and the more tender moments show us the flip side of that passion as well. To me, it's all one big circle - the passion feeds the affection and the affection feeds the passion.

[FlwrChild]

who wouldnt want a 6 hour movie...id pay alot of money to watch a 7 hour BBM ith all the sex

Me too, Matt, me too. 

[tpe]

ya,, in real life no relation is 100% perfect..we all need to work on it..and so did they but that does not matter...love never sees perfection..it just sees and feels love...

So much they could have changed about the past... but it does not matter as whatever they experienced kept them going..they never strived to gain perfection in their love..they just wanted to feel that love...

Beautiful.

[tpe]

Thanks everyone for the wonderful and interesting exchanges.

Tammy, thwe best way I can describe this is that at that late stage, their love had burned away all that was superfluous.  This doesn't mean that the love itself was no longer passionate.  But we have to understand that after so many years, they OUTWARD appearance/expression of passion in love and in sex was no longer florid or luxuriant.  What remains is what is essential, and the last confrontation shows that this same love had not lost any of its essential meaning, even if they no lognger romped about in the meadows, as Aguirre observed in the summer of 63.

I hope this makes sense to you!



 

[babytammy7]

Oh yeah, Thomas I understand what you're saying and I agree, but well they sure no longer romped about in the meadows, as Aguirre observed in the summer of 63, but with being 39 and not longer kids they sure rolled into the dirt, there in the open, near the fire, not even wasting time to get into the tent. For me that is the same that romp about in the medows, friend. 


Without getting up he threw deadwood on the fire, the sparks flying up with their truths and lies, a few hot points of fire landing on their hands and faces, not for the first time, and they rolled down into the dirt.

[atalley]

I agree Tammy.  Having so little time together throughout the 20 yrs. I feel that the passion never died down.  It would've been nice to have had something during the Motel scene and before the "spooning" in the tent which I assume was their last night together.

[Ranchand1]

    Tammy strikes again.

    Way to go! On that there long post back there.  I have to agree.  If I only saw my heart and soul two or three times a year you better believe one or both of us ain't walkin right till next we meet.  Ennis full throttle. 

     You got a way with them words.   

     "lil darlin"


     
     

[pattyjean]

I agree Tammy.  Having so little time together throughout the 20 yrs. I feel that the passion never died down.  It would've been nice to have had something during the Motel scene and before the "spooning" in the tent which I assume was their last night together.

Yes, I too was so hoping for a hint of passion upon arriving at the motel--an explosive 4-years-of-waiting melee for us poor peasants! Just another explosive kiss and unfastening of shirts in the truck (after checking into the motel) would have been wonderful--so that they could become immediately shirtless after closing the motel room door!  No need to be anatomical--just bring on that thundering train!   

[sportstalk23]

ok I know this doesnt exactly qualify as a "love scene" but I would make the shirtless wrestling a lil longer show what was going on under that hat, and take out the pervy skeezy aguirre and it would be even more perfect especially what was going on under that hat

[myprivatejack]

ok I know this doesnt exactly qualify as a "love scene" but I would make the shirtless wrestling a lil longer show what was going on under that hat, and take out the pervy skeezy aguirre and it would be even more perfect especially what was going on under that hat

I know what you mean,sportstalk,but I think that Ang left it so in order we can imagine what happenned without seeing it directly.BBM is full with double meanings,things left to the viewers opinion,gestures and glances that speak more than words or acts,IMO.But for me it's really a love scene,because we know what has happenned that night and we can suppose what is happenning in their bodies and souls.

[tpe]

Oh yeah, Thomas I understand what you're saying and I agree, but well they sure no longer romped about in the meadows, as Aguirre observed in the summer of 63, but with being 39 and not longer kids they sure rolled into the dirt, there in the open, near the fire, not even wasting time to get into the tent. For me that is the same that romp about in the medows, friend. 


Without getting up he threw deadwood on the fire, the sparks flying up with their truths and lies, a few hot points of fire landing on their hands and faces, not for the first time, and they rolled down into the dirt.

Hello Tammy.  Well, I differ from you here, because I believe that there is a fundamental diffence.

In 63:

"As it did go. They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and snorting, no lack of noises, but saying not a goddam word except once Ennis said, “I’m not no queer,” and Jack jumped in with “Me neither. A one-shot thing. Nobody’s business but ours.” There were only the two of them on the mountain, flying in the euphoric, bitter air, looking down on the hawk’s back and the crawling lights of vehicles on the plain below, suspended above ordinary affairs and distant from tame ranch dogs barking in the dark hours."

This is the joy of first love and of youth.  There is no sense of time.

It was not the same when they were older.  Now, I quote a larger section of the passage you quoted:

"Without getting up he threw deadwood on the fire, the sparks flying up with their truths and lies, a few hot points of fire landing on their hands and faces, not for the first time, and they rolled down into the dirt. One thing never changed: the brilliant charge of their infrequent couplings was darkened by the sense of time flying, never enough time, never enough."

It was still passionate.  But it was infrequent, and charged with the sense of lost time.  It is pared down to the bare essentials.





 

[tpe]

Thanks everyone for the wonderful and interesting exchanges.

Tammy, thwe best way I can describe this is that at that late stage, their love had burned away all that was superfluous.  This doesn't mean that the love itself was no longer passionate.  But we have to understand that after so many years, the OUTWARD appearance/expression of passion in love and in sex was no longer florid or luxuriant.  What remains is what is essential, and the last confrontation shows that this same love had not lost any of its essential meaning, even if they no lognger romped about in the meadows, as Aguirre observed in the summer of 63.

I hope this makes sense to you!

I quote myself here again, and highlight passages to make myself clear.  What is not in question here is whether or not the love remained passionate.  The question is whether age and time did not make the expression of that love more austere, which it did, IMO.

[pattyjean]

    Tammy strikes again.

    Way to go! On that there long post back there.  I have to agree.  If I only saw my heart and soul two or three times a year you better believe one or both of us ain't walkin right till next we meet.  Ennis full throttle. 

     You got a way with them words.   

     "lil darlin"


     
     

Yet another tongue-in-cheek post, eh?  Sort of like when Annie Proulx wrote about Jack's father-in-law hating him:  Jack said that if he dropped a dime, that Newsome wouldn't give it back to him, except one way!
One of my favorite lines from the book.  Keep up the good work Ranchand!

[smartestsonia]

Yes, I too was so hoping for a hint of passion upon arriving at the motel--an explosive 4-years-of-waiting melee for us poor peasants! Just another explosive kiss and unfastening of shirts in the truck (after checking into the motel) would have been wonderful--so that they could become immediately shirtless after closing the motel room door!  No need to be anatomical--just bring on that thundering train!   

very true...that would make sense...a scene of passion in the motel room..that would have made things more hot and passionate..however,, never the less the scenes r awsome