Topic: The devil in Ms. Alma

[jrfh50]

At the Thanksgiving dinner scene in Riverton, there is a shot of Alma, while Ennis is talking about his brief rodeo career, that slays me. She looks like a prime candidate for an exorcism...she has a hunkered down, wild look in her eyes, she's slumped in her chair yet almost twitching with some kind of vigilance...If her head spun around and she projectile-vomited green spray everywhere it wouldn't be so out of place. I mean, the women looks possessed and not quiet there relative to everyone else at the table. And then, of course, in a few minutes she confronts Ennis in the kitchen, finally goes for it with him. Like she couldn't stand the adoration of the daughters at the table and the happy-extended-familly act, but had to go for it, get it out, say the words 'Jack Nasty'...A lotta hurt, brilliantly played as erupting over the course of the Thanksgiving evening. Culminating in Ennis getting the s*** kicked out of his already hurting body.

Wow. Can you tell I like the movie, all ten viewings?

[CherryCake]

Good call! I remember that too!  It sure was a great lead-in to the kitchen scene...

[Cowboy Cody]

At the Thanksgiving dinner scene in Riverton, there is a shot of Alma, while Ennis is talking about his brief rodeo career, that slays me. She looks like a prime candidate for an exorcism...she has a hunkered down, wild look in her eyes, she's slumped in her chair yet almost twitching with some kind of vigilance...If her head spun around and she projectile-vomited green spray everywhere it wouldn't be so out of place. I mean, the women looks possessed and not quiet there relative to everyone else at the table. And then, of course, in a few minutes she confronts Ennis in the kitchen, finally goes for it with him. Like she couldn't stand the adoration of the daughters at the table and the happy-extended-familly act, but had to go for it, get it out, say the words 'Jack Nasty'...A lotta hurt, brilliantly played as erupting over the course of the Thanksgiving evening. Culminating in Ennis getting the s*** kicked out of his already hurting body.

Wow. Can you tell I like the movie, all ten viewings?

Because she PG, and she wants Ennis out of her life. Having him around her is a reminder. Hag.

[merry]

I agree but I have a question: Why does she wait that very moment to express herself about something she witnessed a long time ago?
I thought that she didn't say anything right after the kiss scene because of the chock. Is it because she just can't stop loving Ennis?

Merry

[Laundrymat]

I agree but I have a question: Why does she wait that very moment to express herself about something she witnessed a long time ago?
I thought that she didn't say anything right after the kiss scene because of the chock. Is it because she just can't stop loving Ennis?

Merry

I guess She got so many questions on her head and the whole “fishing-trip” things been eating her up for a long time. Also if she didn’t tell Ennis about the postcard at the first place, there might be no re-union.

She was mad, I think. Both herself and Ennis. Of cuz “Jack nasty” too.

[jimmypage]

At the Thanksgiving dinner scene in Riverton, there is a shot of Alma, while Ennis is talking about his brief rodeo career, that slays me. She looks like a prime candidate for an exorcism...she has a hunkered down, wild look in her eyes, she's slumped in her chair yet almost twitching with some kind of vigilance...If her head spun around and she projectile-vomited green spray everywhere it wouldn't be so out of place. I mean, the women looks possessed and not quiet there relative to everyone else at the table. And then, of course, in a few minutes she confronts Ennis in the kitchen, finally goes for it with him. Like she couldn't stand the adoration of the daughters at the table and the happy-extended-familly act, but had to go for it, get it out, say the words 'Jack Nasty'...A lotta hurt, brilliantly played as erupting over the course of the Thanksgiving evening. Culminating in Ennis getting the s*** kicked out of his already hurting body.

Wow. Can you tell I like the movie, all ten viewings?

The word "rodeo" is the provoking factor...there's a a strict association, at least in her head,  between  "rodeo"  and "Jack", since the first time she heard his name.
(another association of course is "fishing"... )...

--------------------
totally OT sorry this reminds me "Young Frankenstein": every time the name Frau Blucher was mentioned
the horses whinnied...

[scruffy]

This is really interesting.  I hadn't noticed Alma getting angry at the table.  I think the reason she waits to confront Ennis about Jack is because Ennis insinuates that it was Alma's fault they were divorced.  He said "once burned" and that was the last straw for Alma.  She could handle the divorce and knowing what was going on during the fishing trips but she could not handle being blamed for the break up.

[Toadily]

This is really interesting.  I hadn't noticed Alma getting angry at the table.  I think the reason she waits to confront Ennis about Jack is because Ennis insinuates that it was Alma's fault they were divorced.  He said "once burned" and that was the last straw for Alma.  She could handle the divorce and knowing what was going on during the fishing trips but she could not handle being blamed for the break up.

That was my feeling too and in the ss it says how she resented that Ennis never took her and the girls on trips but took off to the "fishing trips" and there was a lot of resentment that way.  Plus he was implying it was her fault and it was clearly not, but he would have liked the convenience of keeping it up I am sure.  Alma deserved more and went out and got it.

[CherryCake]

At the Thanksgiving dinner scene in Riverton, there is a shot of Alma, while Ennis is talking about his brief rodeo career, that slays me. She looks like a prime candidate for an exorcism...she has a hunkered down, wild look in her eyes, she's slumped in her chair yet almost twitching with some kind of vigilance...If her head spun around and she projectile-vomited green spray everywhere it wouldn't be so out of place. I mean, the women looks possessed and not quiet there relative to everyone else at the table. And then, of course, in a few minutes she confronts Ennis in the kitchen, finally goes for it with him. Like she couldn't stand the adoration of the daughters at the table and the happy-extended-familly act, but had to go for it, get it out, say the words 'Jack Nasty'...A lotta hurt, brilliantly played as erupting over the course of the Thanksgiving evening. Culminating in Ennis getting the s*** kicked out of his already hurting body.

Wow. Can you tell I like the movie, all ten viewings?

That scene is great. i have come to appreciate  Michelle Williams's acting more and more.. i hope she get the Oscar.. She deserves it.. All her scences are so natural and you can see her thoughts...

[brian2006]

She juz can't accept and still feel unbelievable bcoz her husband divorce her for another guy!!

She feel so jealous of Jack bcoz in Ennis heart, Ennis' love juz for Jack only...

She did it great in that scene! Yup, hope she'll win the Oscar!

[AnitaSmith]

The angry kitchen scene led me to thinking that Alma still loved Ennis and that her second marriage to the grocer was basically one of convenience and economics.  I couldn't help but put myself in Alma's place when she witnessed the passionate embrace and very hot kiss between her husband, Ennis, and Jack Twist.  Jack and Ennis were totally lost in heat together, backed up against a wall, mindless with sexual frenzy/ecstasy.  It was broad daylight, yet Ennis and Jack could not help themselves.  It might be that Alma had never been the recipient of such passion from Ennis.  In witnessing a part of Ennis that she had never seen, Alma suddenly realizes that Ennis did not love her.  It had to have undermined her entire sense of self, leading her to doubt her own femininity and attractiveness -- hence another reason to remarry.  All of these issues were, I believe, a great sting for Alma that only the  passage of time could ever heal.  If even that.  It's a great credit to the character of Alma that she managed to raise a family after being hit by a train.

[jrfh50]

Yes AnitaSmith, it is a great credit to Alma's character that she managed to raise a family. Her girls seem to idolize their father, and Alma Jr. certainly has a gentle and respectful approach to her father in the last scene. This all wouldn't be the case if Alma had undermined Ennis and their relationship, and not provided decent care to her children.

[stephan]

The angry kitchen scene led me to thinking that Alma still loved Ennis and that her second marriage to the grocer was basically one of convenience and economics.  I couldn't help but put myself in Alma's place when she witnessed the passionate embrace and very hot kiss between her husband, Ennis, and Jack Twist.  Jack and Ennis were totally lost in heat together, backed up against a wall, mindless with sexual frenzy/ecstasy.  It was broad daylight, yet Ennis and Jack could not help themselves.  It might be that Alma had never been the recipient of such passion from Ennis.

The same thoughts came to me, AnitaSmith. The look of shock on Alma's face when she catches the two men kissing passionately is worth a thousand words. Plus she had never heard of Jack Twist until the postcard arrived, so she must have realised that Ennis had been keeping a secret.
Yes, just before the kitchen scene, she looked like a volcano waiting to erupt. And I found her tone sarcastic when she suggested that Ennis get married again. But Ennis was still hiding the truth, he didn't know that Alma had seen them kissing, he didn't realise that she knew, so he wouldn't have picked up the sarcasm. Finally, when he realises that she knows, he gets violent.

[n061857]

I loved the initial description of Alma in this thread.  I often wondered why she even invited Ennis to dinner that night, since she was obviously seething.  I guess for her daughters.  As Anita Smith pointed out, seeing Ennis with Jack had to be devatating to her and her self esteem.  I give her alot of credit, obviously she hasn't put down Ennis to their girls.  BRAVO!  I think she may have picked this moment to approach Ennis about it, because she feels safe.  Monroe and the girls are in the next room.  Although I feel very strongly that Ennis would never hurt her physically.  I don't think she felt that.  I don't know, if she planned to confront him about it that day or if his, "Once burned," comment just put her over the edge.  Actually come to think of it, I think she did plan it, because she started the conversation.  However, I don't think the conversation would have turned so "nasty", if Ennis hadn't said that.  I do think she still loves him, or her feelings/anger would not be so intense.

[aintfoolin]

The word "rodeo" is the provoking factor...there's a a strict association, at least in her head,  between  "rodeo"  and "Jack", since the first time she heard his name.
(another association of course is "fishing"... )...

--------------------
totally OT sorry this reminds me "Young Frankenstein": every time the name Frau Blucher was mentioned
the horses whinnied...

 I agree with this. Of all the stories the girls wanted to hear was about Ennis's "rodeoing" days gawd,! It seemed to be their fav the way Ennis told it to them but for Alma it  only  triggered  a remind of Jack Twist.I wonder what she might have done or said if she knew that Ennis had introduced "Jack Nasty" to the girls already. . ..Hmmm.

[tpe]

I agree with this. Of all the stories the girls wanted to hear was about Ennis's "rodeoing" days gawd,! It seemed to be their fav the way Ennis told it to them but for Alma it  only  triggered  a remind of Jack Twist.I wonder what she might have done or said if she knew that Ennis had introduced "Jack Nasty" to the girls already. . ..Hmmm.

Yes, the choice of the rodeo story was bound to anger Alma.  But Ennis was certainly not at fault here.  And the daughters were unaware of the deeper significance of all this...

[myprivatejack]

I agree too in that "rodeoing" was a bad memories word for Alma and that the story was only the trigger to make her explode.An anger explosion that had been saved inside her during years,waiting for the right moment to coming out to the surface...And Ennis gave her the opportunity because IMO she was fed up with the life she was living up to that moment; he never really loved Monroe,but she was still in love with Ennis.
Seeing him there with them,playing the good and happy family they should have been before,knowing that after that supper,she must remain with her new husband while the other went away,and,above all,reminding her who had been and still was her rival and the reason his marriage was over,was too much for her.Really,poor Alma¡; our boys suffered very much,but we often forget the sorrow of the other persons who surrounded them,and we're not fair...

[aintfoolin]

I agree, she had a great amount of anger built up inside her. When she got him off into the kitchen she poses the question to him if he still went fishing with Jack. Ennis answers "not often". Well to her it really did'nt matter how often, what mattered was that Jack was still in the picture after all those years. The concern she spoke of earlier about Ennis being alone so much went right out the window when she found this out. Once more she is forced to accept she  came in second. Jack was with Ennis before her and AFTER  her. That should have given her a major clue, but she just had so much resentment and hate for Jack for "stealing her man, so blinded to the fact that Ennis, her ex-husband  truly loved  the man who stole her dreams. Just could'nt conceive of it.  Maybe she still loved him, perhaps she felt at one time she herself had failed Ennis somehow, but the fact remains, Ennis has not let Jack go and is still seeing him. Don't think Ennis set out to intentially hurt her. ,, but he certainly used her. They were all victims of love, Monroe included. MO.

[tpe]

You know, I do pity her when she waves to the departing pair from the apartment window.  She probably was thinking: what did I do to deserve this?  I can understand why she became bitter about everything.  Still, I couldn't supress my happiness at seeing Ennis and Jack together during the reunion.

[myprivatejack]

You know, I do pity her when she waves to the departing pair from the apartment window.  She probably was thinking: what did I do to deserve this?  I can understand why she became bitter about everything.  Still, I couldn't supress my happiness at seeing Ennis and Jack together during the reunion.

No one of us couldn't suppress this happiness,Thomas,but too often the happiness of some persons is builded over the one of many others.And sometimes we forget Alma's sorrow,I the first one,must confess...

[tpe]

No one of us couldn't suppress this happiness,Thomas,but too often the happiness of some persons is builded over the one of many others.And sometimes we forget Alma's sorrow,I the first one,must confess...

Sometimes, I think great happiness can only be built on top of tremendous sorrow.  We tend to forget the bones that lie buried underneath the joys of the moment.