Author Topic: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis? (Read 58424 times)

KatKat · « **Reply #30 on:** Jun 18, 2006, 06:29 AM »

because Ennis " very "open" to Jack..I mean he talked to Jack and speak more then he did in 2 years, that at least impressed Jack deeply, knowing Enis is such a quiet person

jesseanne21 · « **Reply #31 on:** Jun 20, 2006, 11:07 AM »

Quote from: gimmejack on Jun 17, 2006, 09:04 PM

How about we simplify things...

The answer is because Ennis is friggin HOTTTTT!!!!!!!!

That goes without saying!!!!

TheBoyFromNoWhere · « **Reply #32 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 04:14 AM »

what Kindred thinks is what is really in my mind. ennis needs love from someone. i also have another way of thinking. could it be that ennis is also interested in men? if yes, he couldn't review to anyone because he has been taught from his father about being gay isn't good. so he always tells himself that he is not. but he needs it inside. that's why he doesn't deny the 'activity' with jack in the FNTS. and when he has experienced that. he feel warm at heart but confused. that shows in the SNTS. ennis enters the tent to get what he really want for a long time. he may relift because they are in the place there is no one can find them. so, ennis feel free every time they go to BBM.

then, ennis finds his feeling inside. that's why he is so sad after he lets jack leaves.

from my experience, it is possible for jack to think that 'ok, just get back to my life.' i may be able to find someone else. hewever, jack hasn't found one like ennis. so he goes back to BBM the next summer to find ennis. ennis doesn't show up. jack must feel that ennis isn't interested in him. (it's hard to express in english... :`) ) so he doesn't try to find ennis for a few years. however, when you have a strong feeling to someone. finally, you miss him. all you can do is just try to get to know news from him. jack could be like that.

am i making it clear enough?

tpe · « **Reply #33 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 07:06 AM »

Quote from: TheBoyFromNoWhere on Jun 23, 2006, 04:14 AM

what Kindred thinks is what is really in my mind. ennis needs love from someone. i also have another way of thinking. could it be that ennis is also interested in men? if yes, he couldn't review to anyone because he has been taught from his father about being gay isn't good. so he always tells himself that he is not. but he needs it inside. that's why he doesn't deny the 'activity' with jack in the FNTS. and when he has experienced that. he feel warm at heart but confused. that shows in the SNTS. ennis enters the tent to get what he really want for a long time. he may relift because they are in the place there is no one can find them. so, ennis feel free every time they go to BBM.

then, ennis finds his feeling inside. that's why he is so sad after he lets jack leaves.

from my experience, it is possible for jack to think that 'ok, just get back to my life.' i may be able to find someone else. hewever, jack hasn't found one like ennis. so he goes back to BBM the next summer to find ennis. ennis doesn't show up. jack must feel that ennis isn't interested in him. (it's hard to express in english... :`) ) so he doesn't try to find ennis for a few years. however, when you have a strong feeling to someone. finally, you miss him. all you can do is just try to get to know news from him. jack could be like that.

am i making it clear enough?

Yes, this is quite clear.

I feel the same way as with Jack here. H emust have felt initially that Ennis didn't really want to see him anymore. It was the overwhelming need to be with Ennis that finally forced him to seek him out. He must have been uncertain of how this renewal of communication would be received; hence, the cautious postcard message.

Here is a question related to all this. Did Jack really redline it all the way? Or was he just expressing this to show Ennis that his love never waivered. I feel sometimes that Jack must have had some doubt before the reunion. After all, Ennis never tried to contact him after 63, and he had no way of forseeing how sorely Ennis missed him. I love Jack here for taking the initiative -- even after 4 years of no communication.

How does this relate to a reason for Jack to like Ennis? Realizing that Ennis was the love of his life -- this is reason enough. He had 4 years to get over Ennis. It didn't go away. That is reason enough.

welshwitch · « **Reply #34 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 08:28 AM »

Jake said in one interview that Jack and Ennis were the ying and the yang - you don't need reasons when you love someone. You do for friendship - "I like him because of his sense of humour" or whatever - but not for love. That jst exists, with no need or capacity for rationalization.

(As for red-lining it - yes, that's absolutely right. Once you're committed yourself to something that may turn out to be wonderful or disastrous, you can't wait to find out which and you can't get there fast enough - 105mph on the motorway doesn't seem excessive when you suddenly have something to hope for.)

aimi15 · « **Reply #35 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 08:52 AM »

I keep coming back to the expression on Jack's face as he is thrown the keys and dismissed by the 'stud duck'. He looks utterly beaten down at that moment. I see Ennis as a kind of santuary for him, somewhere he felt he could be and not be belittled - be valued and be on an equal footing - the things that were missing from his life at that time.

tpe · « **Reply #36 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 09:13 AM »

Thanks aimi15 and welshwitch.

I don't think your observations are contradictory. In a deep sense, one finds it really hard to pin down why we love someone. In the case of Jack and Ennis, you feel that certain commonalities appeared to have resonated with each of them. But one might as well assign this to chance and luck...

But I do agree that both made each other feel needed and appreciated. Taht look of Jack before he leaves the room in the visitation scene speaks volumes in favor of this. At this point, he realizes that he does not belong. He realizes that it is with Ennis that he really belongs.

A sense of belonging, of acceptance -- this could be reason enough.

aimi15 · « **Reply #37 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 09:32 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Jun 23, 2006, 09:13 AM

Thanks aimi15 and welshwitch.

I don't think your observations are contradictory. In a deep sense, one finds it really hard to pin down why we love someone. In the case of Jack and Ennis, you feel that certain commonalities appeared to have resonated with each of them. But one might as well assign this to chance and luck...

But I do agree that both made each other feel needed and appreciated. Taht look of Jack before he leaves the room in the visitation scene speaks volumes in favor of this. At this point, he realizes that he does not belong. He realizes that it is with Ennis that he really belongs.

A sense of belonging, of acceptance -- this could be reason enough.

Yes. I think also it's a common human trait that when things aren't going our way, we look back to times in our life that seemed better and wish to have those times again. With Jack i felt there must have been more to it than that, more than just a sense of nostalgia taking him there - a desire for past experiences will not make the vast majority of people turn their backs on their lives to try and rekindle what has already been and gone. Although he didn't cut all ties with his life with Lureen, his heart definitely wasn't in it, it was with Ennis every step of the way. That look on Jack's face we both mentioned tpe, speaks volumes, and you said it perfectly - he really didn't belong in that situation, with those people - he felt he belonged with Ennis. At the time of the visit he gave the impression he felt lower than low - i think he NEEDED to see Ennis, it went beyond a desire, he couldn't have left off contacting him for any longer. Ennis had brought him joy for a limited time and he needed a taste of it again.

tpe · « **Reply #38 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 09:46 AM »

Quote from: aimi15 on Jun 23, 2006, 09:32 AM

Yes. I think also it's a common human trait that when things aren't going our way, we look back to times in our life that seemed better and wish to have those times again. With Jack i felt there must have been more to it than that, more than just a sense of nostalgia taking him there - a desire for past experiences will not make the vast majority of people turn their backs on their lives to try and rekindle what has already been and gone. Although he didn't cut all ties with his life with Lureen, his heart definitely wasn't in it, it was with Ennis every step of the way. That look on Jack's face we both mentioned tpe, speaks volumes, and you said it perfectly - he really didn't belong in that situation, with those people - he felt he belonged with Ennis. At the time of the visit he gave the impression he felt lower than low - i think he NEEDED to see Ennis, it went beyond a desire, he couldn't have left off contacting him for any longer. Ennis had brought him joy for a limited time and he needed a taste of it again.

I have wondered what would have happened to Ennis had Jack not taken the initiative. It is highly likely that he would have continued life with his secret misery. There was something in Jack that made him go the initial distance. For me, this was special. But was there reason enough here?

I think yes. The answer is provided by Ennis. "You bet." Although Ennis did not take the initial step, he nevere failed to affirm his love in no uncertain terms when it was most crucial for him to do so. This is another way of looking at why Jack always loved Ennis. Ennis always affirmed his love.

welshwitch · « **Reply #39 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 03:01 PM »

I think going back to Brokeback is that thing about harking backto a simpler time too. Jack's embroiled with a new baby, a father-in-law who's arrogant, insensitive and excludes him, a wife who's unable to resiist her father's domination - in comparison Brokeback is freedom, lack of complication ( for Jack though not for Ennis), a return to the irresponsibility and self-indulgence of youth, or if you prefer a return to Arcadia or Eden. He doesn't know that the serpent lurks in Eden and the skull in Arcadia.

tpe · « **Reply #40 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 03:14 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jun 23, 2006, 03:01 PM

I think going back to Brokeback is that thing about harking backto a simpler time too. Jack's embroiled with a new baby, a father-in-law who's arrogant, insensitive and excludes him, a wife who's unable to resiist her father's domination - in comparison Brokeback is freedom, lack of complication ( for Jack though not for Ennis), a return to the irresponsibility and self-indulgence of youth, or if you prefer a return to Arcadia or Eden. He doesn't know that the serpent lurks in Eden and the skull in Arcadia.

So one reason then could be that Ennis brings Jack back to a simpler and emotionally more indulgent time. But yes, even then, Death was with them.

stephan · « **Reply #41 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 03:30 PM »

It struck me that in the first few days on Brokeback Mountain, even on the very first day, they became friends. The silence of the first minutes of the film expressed 2 young men almost having to learn not to be alone anymore.

The friendship turns to love. One reason for Jack to like Ennis, besides the obvious one already mentioned

, and which doesn't need a reason, is Ennis's generosity (Coguaro mentioned it) as in when he tries to get other food besides beans because Jack was fed up with beans.

Another is Ennis's deep personal commitment. He isn't the chit-chatty type. Jack tends to go on and on. Ennis says things in a nutshell, leading Jack to scrape away the superficial to see more essential things.

tpe · « **Reply #42 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 04:30 PM »

There is certainly an element here of the attraction of opposites. The strong silent type, versus the more emotive and expressive one. One who is more sparing in the need for love, and yet deeply faithful. The other dreams and reaches for the stars, and yet is in need of constant affirmation and companionship.

This is what Jake Gyllenhaal meant when he said that Ennis and Jack were Yin and Yang. They are two sides of the same love. Together, they are one.

stephan · « **Reply #43 on:** Jun 23, 2006, 04:39 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jun 23, 2006, 04:30 PM

There is certainly an element here of the attraction of opposites. The strong silent type, versus the more emotive and expressive one. One who is more sparing in the need for love, and yet deeply faithful. The other dreams and reaches for the stars, and yet is in need of constant affirmation and companionship.

This is what Jake Gyllenhaal meant when he said that Ennis and Jack were Yin and Yang. They are two sides of the same love. Together, they are one.

Yes.

NoReins · « **Reply #44 on:** Jun 25, 2006, 01:51 PM »

What reasons did Jack have to like Ennis? In my opinion, the main one is that Ennis let him - by which I mean that he listened to him like no-one else ever had and he did little things for Jack to make his time on the mountain easier (they've been mentioned before but ordering food other than beans, killing the elk, switching roles etc) Ennis may not have been looking for a friend initially but Jack's openness and happy-go-lucky demeanour made it easy for Ennis to want him as a friend - and as soon as he did, he became likeable to Jack, if that makes sense.

coguaro · « **Reply #45 on:** Jun 25, 2006, 02:18 PM »

I agree with tpe: the nature of Ennis character is the opposite to the Jack one. That could be the first reason of his attraction.
By analogy, looking at the way we brokies love Ennis or Jack I've the impression that sometime there is a complementay personality in that choice!

TheBoyFromNoWhere · « **Reply #46 on:** Jun 25, 2006, 10:05 PM »

i think finally, when they love each, ennis seems to me to love jack very much. he stucks to only jack. he has no chance to connect with other men unlike jack. but jack still loves ennis. so i like the line of their last meet. 'i wish i know how to quit you'. (something like that i can't really remember the exact words.)

moreover, the first connection can't be forget especially the love connection.

CherryCake · « **Reply #47 on:** Jun 25, 2006, 10:11 PM »

Quote from: gimmejack on Jun 17, 2006, 09:04 PM

How about we simplify things...

The answer is because Ennis is friggin HOTTTTT!!!!!!!!

Oh, yes he is... and Jack was hooked as soon as he cast those baby blues on Ennis leaning against Aguirree's trailer. Jack thought he struck gold when he found he was gonna work with Ennis all alone up in the mountains.

gimmejack · « **Reply #48 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 04:50 AM »

Quote from: CherryCake on Jun 25, 2006, 10:11 PM

Quote from: gimmejack on Jun 17, 2006, 09:04 PM
How about we simplify things...

The answer is because Ennis is friggin HOTTTTT!!!!!!!!
Oh, yes he is... and Jack was hooked as soon as he cast those baby blues on Ennis leaning against Aguirree's trailer. Jack thought he struck gold when he found he was gonna work with Ennis all alone up in the mountains.

Struck Gold...Do you think? I always wondered if the attraction was instant for Jack...or if he was just an opportunist up in the mountains in the middle of nowhere

tpe · « **Reply #49 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 06:41 AM »

Quote from: coguaro on Jun 25, 2006, 02:18 PM

I agree with tpe: the nature of Ennis character is the opposite to the Jack one. That could be the first reason of his attraction.
By analogy, looking at the way we brokies love Ennis or Jack I've the impression that sometime there is a complementay personality in that choice!

Thanks coguaro. Yes, I do think there is a lot to be said about complementarity here. It's a wonderful insight you have: taking by analogy our individual attractions to the characters to shed light on the possible reasons.

tpe · « **Reply #50 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 06:44 AM »

Quote from: TheBoyFromNoWhere on Jun 25, 2006, 10:05 PM

i think finally, when they love each, ennis seems to me to love jack very much. he stucks to only jack. he has no chance to connect with other men unlike jack. but jack still loves ennis. so i like the line of their last meet. 'i wish i know how to quit you'. (something like that i can't really remember the exact words.)

moreover, the first connection can't be forget especially the love connection.

It is probable that Ennis was not Jack's first expereince; but you are right: Ennis is most likely his first true connection. And that is a precious thing by itself.

welshwitch · « **Reply #51 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 11:59 AM »

Some people fall in love over and over again, not always as deeply but no less genuinely. Other people fall in love once and that's it; Ennis always strikes me as one of those. Jack's the first person who's ever taken any real notice of him, shown he thinks him interesting, made him laugh, talked to him then made it clear he wants him physically. I wonder how far the same is true of Jack; his previous experiences, whatever they were, needn't have been prolonged or much more than passing physical things while Ennis pays him the great compliment of talking more to him than he has to anyone else for the last year ( and that must include Alma). Then they do things together, create a sort of domestic scene, the kind they m,ay not have often seen with their families - but above all they spend time together. Jack seems to me to be such a mobile charatcer, volatile almost, that Ennis may seem like an anchor, something to cling to.

CherryCake · « **Reply #52 on:** Jun 26, 2006, 09:05 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jun 26, 2006, 11:59 AM

Some people fall in love over and over again, not always as deeply but no less genuinely. Other people fall in love once and that's it; Ennis always strikes me as one of those. Jack's the first person who's ever taken any real notice of him, shown he thinks him interesting, made him laugh, talked to him then made it clear he wants him physically. I wonder how far the same is true of Jack; his previous experiences, whatever they were, needn't have been prolonged or much more than passing physical things while Ennis pays him the great compliment of talking more to him than he has to anyone else for the last year ( and that must include Alma). Then they do things together, create a sort of domestic scene, the kind they m,ay not have often seen with their families - but above all they spend time together. Jack seems to me to be such a mobile charatcer, volatile almost, that Ennis may seem like an anchor, something to cling to.

OOohh, Welshy, this is good. Well said.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #53 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 02:41 PM »

Ennis is one of these guys that ozzes machismo. He's man of mystery. Totally masculine,quiet,thoughtfull, and they come from similar backgrounds too. He is the opposite of Jack in personality. Complicated but almost always and above all a gentleman. and he does'nt snore.

welshwitch · « **Reply #54 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 03:08 PM »

I could never see any reason to like Ennis before, and now you tell me he doesn;t snore? Well, that's it then; from now on I'm an Ennis girl, and that's of course what Jack realised - he needed a man who didn't snore.

edgar · « **Reply #55 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 03:22 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Jul 05, 2006, 03:08 PM

I could never see any reason to like Ennis before, and now you tell me he doesn;t snore? Well, that's it then; from now on I'm an Ennis girl, and that's of course what Jack realised - he needed a man who didn't snore.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #56 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 03:52 PM »

How could you not love Ennis?

welshwitch · « **Reply #57 on:** Jul 05, 2006, 04:09 PM »

Easily, don't even have to work at it.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #58 on:** Jul 06, 2006, 03:38 PM »

Ennis a still a work in progress though. he is a Product of his upbringing, loosing his parents at a young age. it shaped him into what he is . Withdrawn,quiet, witha shyness and probably shame also. It's hard for him to relate to the world outside of his . i think Jack saw this in Ennis. As in all good relationships Jack slowly drew Ennis in as a freind first, gaining his trust and Ennis opened up to him. ( a testament , to Jack's sweet personality, and intuition. He's a clown,nurtuer, companion friend and ultimately lover to Ennis. He helped Ennis realize that there feelins inside that he never Knew existed . I feel that Ennis was grateful to Jack for completing him. Sweet.

welshwitch · « **Reply #59 on:** Jul 07, 2006, 06:44 AM »

What a great summary of Jack's qualities, aintfoolin' - he's multifaceted and flashes as brilliantly as any precious stone. Maybe Ennis attratcs him just becasue he's not like that?