Topic: The reunion Embrace

[welshwitch]

That's part of the attraction, isn;t it, both of this scene and of the SNIT? We'd all like someone to look at us in that way, as though we were their world and they wanted no other.

[Mew]

Six Words: I just can't help but smile! 

[Patriot1]

I always thought Ennis was tucking in his shirt trying to hide the evidence of his "excitement" over seeing and kissing Jack.  Yes, I know, I will come out of the gutter now . . . 

Well, stacp, if your mind is in the gutter then so was Annie Proulx's.  In her story she said, "He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her."  There is only one thought that is suppose to enter the readers mind at that point and you hit it on the head, so to speak.

[Patriot1]

That's part of the attraction, isn;t it, both of this scene and of the SNIT? We'd all like someone to look at us in that way, as though we were their world and they wanted no other.

Oh! From your lips to whoever's ear.

[tpe]

I always thought Ennis was tucking in his shirt trying to hide the evidence of his "excitement" over seeing and kissing Jack.  Yes, I know, I will come out of the gutter now . . . 

Well, stacp, if your mind is in the gutter then so was Annie Proulx's.  In her story she said, "He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her."  There is only one thought that is suppose to enter the readers mind at that point and you hit it on the head, so to speak.

This is indeed correct.  There is no shame in it.  Is this not also a manifestation of love?

[Patriot1]

I always thought Ennis was tucking in his shirt trying to hide the evidence of his "excitement" over seeing and kissing Jack.  Yes, I know, I will come out of the gutter now . . . 

Well, stacp, if your mind is in the gutter then so was Annie Proulx's.  In her story she said, "He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her."  There is only one thought that is suppose to enter the readers mind at that point and you hit it on the head, so to speak.

This is indeed correct.  There is no shame in it.  Is this not also a manifestation of love?

Thank you for your validation Thomas.  No, there is no shame and I don't see where anyone suggested there was. There certainly wasn't anything shameful in this scene.  And yes, the physical desire for someone can be a manifestation of love, or lust.

[tpe]

I always thought Ennis was tucking in his shirt trying to hide the evidence of his "excitement" over seeing and kissing Jack.  Yes, I know, I will come out of the gutter now . . . 

Well, stacp, if your mind is in the gutter then so was Annie Proulx's.  In her story she said, "He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her."  There is only one thought that is suppose to enter the readers mind at that point and you hit it on the head, so to speak.

This is indeed correct.  There is no shame in it.  Is this not also a manifestation of love?

Thank you for your validation Thomas.  No, there is no shame and I don't see where anyone suggested there was. There certainly wasn't anything shameful in this scene.  And yes, the physical desire for someone can be a manifestation of love, or lust.

Thanks Patriot1.  Lust is so beautiful when it is informed by love.  With it, Love can be complete.

[Patriot1]

I always thought Ennis was tucking in his shirt trying to hide the evidence of his "excitement" over seeing and kissing Jack.  Yes, I know, I will come out of the gutter now . . . 

Well, stacp, if your mind is in the gutter then so was Annie Proulx's.  In her story she said, "He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her."  There is only one thought that is suppose to enter the readers mind at that point and you hit it on the head, so to speak.

This is indeed correct.  There is no shame in it.  Is this not also a manifestation of love?

Thank you for your validation Thomas.  No, there is no shame and I don't see where anyone suggested there was. There certainly wasn't anything shameful in this scene.  And yes, the physical desire for someone can be a manifestation of love, or lust.

Thanks Patriot1.  Lust is so beautiful when it is informed by love.  With it, Love can be complete.

I am not sure I can accept you premise Thomas. If I do, then I would have to accept that without lust, love could not be complete.  We all know of people who are incapable of showing signs of lust either from accidents or other problems. To say their love is not complete because they cannot express lust I think would be an error on our part. Wouldn't you agree?

[donnaread]

I echo all your comments here! This scene is so brilliantly acted, down to perfection, and all those little details that you all mentioned is what makes it so real.
I was just thinking - as far as I understood from interviews, Ang didn't the boys much instruction during the shooting, he talked to them previous to the shooting (the pre-production part) but then he pretty much left it up to them. In the Oprah interview Jake described how they approached this scene and how they talked about it ("Heath, you're gonna grab me, and then you're gonna throw me onto the wall, and then I'm gonna throw you onto the wall...") so if I get this right, they not only acted their parts here, they totally choreographed that scene! All those little details - the way they shut their eyes, how Jack holds on to Ennis's shirt like he can't let go and keep going after his lips, the head nuzzle - it must've been their own ideas, no directions from Ang... these guys are amazing!

YES!!! They are amazing!  Its funny...when Ennis first gets the postcard, he nervously looks at Alma over his shoulder while he's reading it.  But he got himself so worked up thinking about Jack, that the day Jack was to arrive, he didn't spare Alma a thought about his behavior that day.  Pacing, drinking, looking out of the window...and finally RUNNING down the stairs!  He was beyond thinking of anyone but Jack at this point.

Donna

[tpe]

I always thought Ennis was tucking in his shirt trying to hide the evidence of his "excitement" over seeing and kissing Jack.  Yes, I know, I will come out of the gutter now . . . 

Well, stacp, if your mind is in the gutter then so was Annie Proulx's.  In her story she said, "He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her."  There is only one thought that is suppose to enter the readers mind at that point and you hit it on the head, so to speak.

This is indeed correct.  There is no shame in it.  Is this not also a manifestation of love?

Thank you for your validation Thomas.  No, there is no shame and I don't see where anyone suggested there was. There certainly wasn't anything shameful in this scene.  And yes, the physical desire for someone can be a manifestation of love, or lust.

Thanks Patriot1.  Lust is so beautiful when it is informed by love.  With it, Love can be complete.

I am not sure I can accept you premise Thomas. If I do, then I would have to accept that without lust, love could not be complete.  We all know of people who are incapable of showing signs of lust either from accidents or other problems. To say their love is not complete because they cannot express lust I think would be an error on our part. Wouldn't you agree?

I should have said Eros, to be precise.  Eros would certainly not be complete without lust.  But philia and agape, certainly they are beyond lust.

Although "Lust" can take a higher meaning -- not physical.  A more spiritual thirst.  But this is not the common usage.  Except in the term "Lust for life." 

[donnaread]

I know, that part makes me really sad, that Alma thought they were going to maybe go out, or at least she would have a visitor for a cup o' coffee...  She was dressed up, I thought, too; and she put her purse on her shoulder for a moment -- what was that about?

kathy

I think she was simply in shock, and didn't even notice what she was doing.  Watch the several different emotions at play here.  When she first sees them, she's shocked and stunned, practically hyperventilates.  Then she gets hold of herself and when they come to the kitchen door (Ennis doesn't even come THROUGH the door with Jack) she looks almost pleasant when Ennis introduces her to Jack and she says hello.  Then when Jack hears the girls and they start talking about their kids, look at how her face changes when Jack talks about his baby and wife...she is furious and near tears, in fact I believe her eyes well up.  Its as though she's thinking "How dare he come up here and talk about his wife and baby so proudly after what they have just been doing, like there was nothing to it!"

Donna

[stacp]

I echo all your comments here! This scene is so brilliantly acted, down to perfection, and all those little details that you all mentioned is what makes it so real.
I was just thinking - as far as I understood from interviews, Ang didn't the boys much instruction during the shooting, he talked to them previous to the shooting (the pre-production part) but then he pretty much left it up to them. In the Oprah interview Jake described how they approached this scene and how they talked about it ("Heath, you're gonna grab me, and then you're gonna throw me onto the wall, and then I'm gonna throw you onto the wall...") so if I get this right, they not only acted their parts here, they totally choreographed that scene! All those little details - the way they shut their eyes, how Jack holds on to Ennis's shirt like he can't let go and keep going after his lips, the head nuzzle - it must've been their own ideas, no directions from Ang... these guys are amazing!

YES!!! They are amazing!  Its funny...when Ennis first gets the postcard, he nervously looks at Alma over his shoulder while he's reading it.  But he got himself so worked up thinking about Jack, that the day Jack was to arrive, he didn't spare Alma a thought about his behavior that day.  Pacing, drinking, looking out of the window...and finally RUNNING down the stairs!  He was beyond thinking of anyone but Jack at this point.

Donna

Speaking of when Ennis first gets the postcard, I thought it was cute how Ennis snaps to attention and turns to grab that postcard off the table when Alma first tells him he got a postcard from Jack that came general delivery.  When she first asks him if he knows somebody by the name of Jack, he is hesitant, trying not to get his hopes up it is HIS Jack. Then when she mentions the postcard, he quickly dries his hands off on his pants and spins around to the table to get the postcard. Then, the look of pure joy and excitement when he sees it is from his Jack is just great.  Great acting by Heath here.

[keren_b]

I know, that part makes me really sad, that Alma thought they were going to maybe go out, or at least she would have a visitor for a cup o' coffee...  She was dressed up, I thought, too; and she put her purse on her shoulder for a moment -- what was that about?

kathy

I think she was simply in shock, and didn't even notice what she was doing.  Watch the several different emotions at play here.  When she first sees them, she's shocked and stunned, practically hyperventilates.  Then she gets hold of herself and when they come to the kitchen door (Ennis doesn't even come THROUGH the door with Jack) she looks almost pleasant when Ennis introduces her to Jack and she says hello.  Then when Jack hears the girls and they start talking about their kids, look at how her face changes when Jack talks about his baby and wife...she is furious and near tears, in fact I believe her eyes well up.  Its as though she's thinking "How dare he come up here and talk about his wife and baby so proudly after what they have just been doing, like there was nothing to it!"

Donna

I agree 100% Donna, I also think this is exactly what she thought, and you described it so well. And yes, her eyes do well up. when Jack says "I married the prettiest gal in Childress" the anger and the hurt on her face are clearly shown, and the tears.

[welshwitch]

It's interesting that Jack doesn't come in - as though he doesn't want to be part of Ennis's Riverton life - and Ennis doesn't come in either, but remains in that liminal region in the doorway, as though he too is temporarily not a part of Alma's and the girls' lives.

[hpv]

Sorry, maybe little OT..I must go back,right before Jack arrives,Ennis, sitting all dressed up and I absolutely adore the look on his face as he peers out the window, just before he sees it's Jack and breaks into the his little and so rare smile. (I'm in love with his smiles .. )
You just know he's spent the whole day listening to cars driving past and being disappointed over and over...

[ksxks]

Sorry, maybe little OT..I must go back,right before Jack arrives,Ennis, sitting all dressed up and I absolutely adore the look on his face as he peers out the window, just before he sees it's Jack and breaks into the his little and so rare smile. (I'm in love with his smiles .. )
You just know he's spent the whole day listening to cars driving past and being disappointed over and over...

Oh yes, I love that so much, his little smile.  And you said it so vividly -- I can almost feel that little dim room filled with his smoke and smelling like beer, too, and his pacing and sitting and listening for the rare car that drives by, and he seemed to be almost asleep right before he obviously heard a truck and got up to look out the window...

kathy

[shieldmaid]

It's interesting that Jack doesn't come in - as though he doesn't want to be part of Ennis's Riverton life - and Ennis doesn't come in either, but remains in that liminal region in the doorway, as though he too is temporarily not a part of Alma's and the girls' lives.

I've been struck by that, too--Ennis is very much in a transitional moment throughout this whole scene.  He doesn't pay attention to Alma as she's feeding Alma Jr., is sitting and drinking alone in the living room, and spends all his time looking OUT--away from the family space and toward something unknown and new in his life.  When he and Jack finally come together, they're in a public space, unlike anywhere they've ever been before, so they have to find another space where they can be together in safety.  That's obviously not Ennis's house, so neither of them will linger there.  I think it's partly because they never successfully find a space that's safe and comfortable for both of them in the long term that they can't stay together. 

[shieldmaid]

I always thought Ennis was tucking in his shirt trying to hide the evidence of his "excitement" over seeing and kissing Jack.  Yes, I know, I will come out of the gutter now . . . 

Well, stacp, if your mind is in the gutter then so was Annie Proulx's.  In her story she said, "He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her."  There is only one thought that is suppose to enter the readers mind at that point and you hit it on the head, so to speak.

This is indeed correct.  There is no shame in it.  Is this not also a manifestation of love?

Thank you for your validation Thomas.  No, there is no shame and I don't see where anyone suggested there was. There certainly wasn't anything shameful in this scene.  And yes, the physical desire for someone can be a manifestation of love, or lust.

Thanks Patriot1.  Lust is so beautiful when it is informed by love.  With it, Love can be complete.

I am not sure I can accept you premise Thomas. If I do, then I would have to accept that without lust, love could not be complete.  We all know of people who are incapable of showing signs of lust either from accidents or other problems. To say their love is not complete because they cannot express lust I think would be an error on our part. Wouldn't you agree?

I should have said Eros, to be precise.  Eros would certainly not be complete without lust.  But philia and agape, certainly they are beyond lust.

Although "Lust" can take a higher meaning -- not physical.  A more spiritual thirst.  But this is not the common usage.  Except in the term "Lust for life." 

I'm reading this exchange with amazement.  How did I never understand this before??  Of course this would be the moment when Jack and Ennis's love finally becomes public--both socially (as in Alma seeing them) and on the body (the danger of someone recognizing the physical signs of their eros).  Thanks, everyone--I appreciate these interpretations.

[tpe]

I'm reading this exchange with amazement.  How did I never understand this before??  Of course this would be the moment when Jack and Ennis's love finally becomes public--both socially (as in Alma seeing them) and on the body (the danger of someone recognizing the physical signs of their eros).  Thanks, everyone--I appreciate these interpretations.

I am thankful that there is that element of physical desire in this scene of a reunion of two deep loves.   The physical and spiritual don't have to stay apart.   They reinforce each other in this scene.  The compliment each other...

[shieldmaid]

I am thankful that there is that element of physical desire in this scene of a reunion of two deep loves.   The physical and spiritual don't have to stay apart.   They reinforce each other in this scene.  The compliment each other...

I couldn't agree more.  That has to be one of the reasons why this movie stays with us--it doesn't shy away from acknowledging both the physical and the spiritual sides of their love, yet it also doesn't resort to either pathos or cheap voyeurism.  We're always left wanting to see, to hear more--and that's as it should be.

[tpe]

I couldn't agree more.  That has to be one of the reasons why this movie stays with us--it doesn't shy away from acknowledging both the physical and the spiritual sides of their love, yet it also doesn't resort to either pathos or cheap voyeurism.  We're always left wanting to see, to hear more--and that's as it should be.

I do think this is the greatest beauty of the film -- to portray in an unassuming way the love between kindred spirits in the hearts of these two confused, ill-educated, and simple men.

 

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I'm just floored by how this reunion quickly progresses from "Jack f*ckin Twist!", "S.O.B!" (very common type of greeting between buddies), to explosive passion.  Four years is a long time to miss your buddy.  Four years is a long time to miss someone who is your soulmate and lover.  Four years is a helluva long damn time to miss someone who is all three. 

"Clutch the pearls!"  I'm getting weak just thinking about this scene again!

[tpe]

I'm just floored by how this reunion quickly progresses from "Jack f*ckin Twist!", "S.O.B!" (very common type of greeting between buddies), to explosive passion.  Four years is a long time to miss your buddy.  Four years is a long time to miss someone who is your soulmate and lover.  Four years is a helluva long damn time to miss someone who is all three. 

"Clutch the pearls!"  I'm getting weak just thinking about this scene again!

City Slickin' Cowboy, what was it like for you when you first saw it?  I had heard from others before BBM came out about this kiss.  I thought I was prepared.  I was not.

[MississaugaRed]

I'm just floored by how this reunion quickly progresses from "Jack f*ckin Twist!", "S.O.B!" (very common type of greeting between buddies), to explosive passion.  Four years is a long time to miss your buddy.  Four years is a long time to miss someone who is your soulmate and lover.  Four years is a helluva long damn time to miss someone who is all three. 
"Clutch the pearls!"  I'm getting weak just thinking about this scene again!

CSC, you've given me goosebumps with the above!   

I loved how Jake said in the TO festival press conference that the difference between a best friend and a soulmate was the consummation of the relationship.

They were friends who became lovers and thus soulmates.

Another sacred trinity, tpe??  Like your Jack/Ennis/Mountain in BBM Discussion thread??

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I'm just floored by how this reunion quickly progresses from "Jack f*ckin Twist!", "S.O.B!" (very common type of greeting between buddies), to explosive passion.  Four years is a long time to miss your buddy.  Four years is a long time to miss someone who is your soulmate and lover.  Four years is a helluva long damn time to miss someone who is all three. 

"Clutch the pearls!"  I'm getting weak just thinking about this scene again!

City Slickin' Cowboy, what was it like for you when you first saw it?  I had heard from others before BBM came out about this kiss.  I thought I was prepared.  I was not.

I was not prepared for the kiss.  I had seen the trailer and saw the hug part.  I thought it was going to be just that...very touching and maybe something would happen later.  The second Ennis looked at Jack I thought "OMG!! Are they gonna...?"  When Ennis backed Jack up against that wall my mouth dropped into the popcorn bucket!

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I'm just floored by how this reunion quickly progresses from "Jack f*ckin Twist!", "S.O.B!" (very common type of greeting between buddies), to explosive passion.  Four years is a long time to miss your buddy.  Four years is a long time to miss someone who is your soulmate and lover.  Four years is a helluva long damn time to miss someone who is all three. 
"Clutch the pearls!"  I'm getting weak just thinking about this scene again!

CSC, you've given me goosebumps with the above!   

I loved how Jake said in the TO festival press conference that the difference between a best friend and a soulmate was the consummation of the relationship.

They were friends who became lovers and thus soulmates.

Another sacred trinity, tpe??  Like your Jack/Ennis/Mountain in BBM Discussion thread??

There is sooo much truth to that statement.

[tpe]

I'm just floored by how this reunion quickly progresses from "Jack f*ckin Twist!", "S.O.B!" (very common type of greeting between buddies), to explosive passion.  Four years is a long time to miss your buddy.  Four years is a long time to miss someone who is your soulmate and lover.  Four years is a helluva long damn time to miss someone who is all three. 

"Clutch the pearls!"  I'm getting weak just thinking about this scene again!

City Slickin' Cowboy, what was it like for you when you first saw it?  I had heard from others before BBM came out about this kiss.  I thought I was prepared.  I was not.

I was not prepared for the kiss.  I had seen the trailer and saw the hug part.  I thought it was going to be just that...very touching and maybe something would happen later.  The second Ennis looked at Jack I thought "OMG!! Are they gonna...?"  When Ennis backed Jack up against that wall my mouth dropped into the popcorn bucket!

I must admit.  I had a big smile on my face when I saw that kiss.

It's one of the most beautiful things I have seen in my life. 

[MississaugaRed]

I loved how Jake said in the TO festival press conference that the difference between a best friend and a soulmate was the consummation of the relationship.

They were friends who became lovers and thus soulmates.

Another sacred trinity, tpe??  Like your Jack/Ennis/Mountain in BBM Discussion thread??

There is sooo much truth to that statement.

Our Jake is wise for one so young .... I wonder if he learned this from BBM or brought that belief with him to the role??  It certainly BURNS out of both of the men during this scene ... passion of the soul as well as the body!

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I must admit.  I had a big smile on my face when I saw that kiss.

It's one of the most beautiful things I have seen in my life. 

The theater was packed on opening night.  I heard so many gasps during this scene.  I'm sure I wasn't the only one "clutching the pearls!"  I think I heard a "hell yeah!" from someone behind me!

[tpe]

I must admit.  I had a big smile on my face when I saw that kiss.

It's one of the most beautiful things I have seen in my life. 

The theater was packed on opening night.  I heard so many gasps during this scene.  I'm sure I wasn't the only one "clutching the pearls!"  I think I heard a "hell yeah!" from someone behind me!

I think I did post somewhere that in some of my later viewings, there was actually APPLAUSE.  But in some of them, it was pure silence.

THe younger ones who tend to giggle a lot in the earlier scenes were tellingly quiet when this scene appears...