Author Topic: Did Jack ever say 'I love you' to Ennis? (Read 102630 times)

lancecowboy · « **Reply #120 on:** Jul 21, 2008, 09:39 PM »

Quote from: Baby Tammy on Jul 21, 2008, 09:01 AM

Totally and utterly agree!!! So well said, Thomas!! ( ( ( (

You know that saying, I don't know how to say it in English, but here is something like "You have prove things with facts, not with words".

I think it is why I personally find Ennis more attractive because he speaks with his deeds, doing whatever he can for Jack whenever they were together. Jack was the talker, and a devoted lover, but Ennis was the quintessential cowboy, strong, reticent, and walked his talk. No need to say much, when there ain't much to say 'cept to do what needs doing.

Please don't flame me for not liking Jack more. I highlighted the word personally, and we are all entitled to it, no?

tpe · « **Reply #121 on:** Jul 22, 2008, 07:01 AM »

Quote from: Baby Tammy on Jul 21, 2008, 09:01 AM

Totally and utterly agree!!! So well said, Thomas!! ( ( ( (

You know that saying, I don't know how to say it in English, but here is something like "You have prove things with facts, not with words".

In english, I think the saying is "Actions speak louder than words."

tpe · « **Reply #122 on:** Jul 22, 2008, 07:04 AM »

Quote from: myprivatejack on Jul 21, 2008, 09:23 AM

I agree,Thomas¡.These are some proofs of love that are powerful than words;even if these words are real and true,sometimes are a little worn out.The actions is what matters and what means beyond any words.

Exactly. I wonder how Ennis (or Jack) would have reacted to such a verbal declaration. I am sure Ennis would have been a bit uncomfortable had Jack said it out directly. I think they just assumed that their actions spoke for their feelings. Alas, actions and motivations could also be misinterpreted, even as words can sound tired or worn out or conventional. There are always difficulties with communication, be it verbal or non-verbal.

tpe · « **Reply #123 on:** Jul 22, 2008, 07:12 AM »

Quote from: lancecowboy on Jul 21, 2008, 09:39 PM

I think it is why I personally find Ennis more attractive because he speaks with his deeds, doing whatever he can for Jack whenever they were together. Jack was the talker, and a devoted lover, but Ennis was the quintessential cowboy, strong, reticent, and walked his talk. No need to say much, when there ain't much to say 'cept to do what needs doing. Please don't flame me for not liking Jack more. I highlighted the word personally, and we are all entitled to it, no?

As I had mentioned to MPJ, actions could also be misunderstood, and such was the case here. I think the lack of verbal communication between the two of them made the Last Confrontation inevitable. Jack was certainly much more communicative, but even he didn't communicate his resentment and how much the sweet life meant to him. Had they communicated just a bit early on, perhaps the Last Confrontation could have been avoided. But this is all hindsight of course. The reality is that we, as human beings, assume that our actions speak clearly for us, even though in reality, they are subject to misinterpretation.

smartestsonia · « **Reply #124 on:** Jul 23, 2008, 04:38 AM »

Quote from: Freedom on Feb 18, 2006, 09:54 PM

Ok, if I could add a scence...I would add a scene where

I imagined if there would be a scene when they slept in a tent and Jack was holding Ennis from the back...

Ennis was sleeping.
In the middle of the night, Jack awoke and quietly told Ennis that "I love you" and fell back to sleep.
A few seconds later, Ennis opened his eyes, looked very sad in his eyes, longingly to reply but couldn't
then he went back to sleep...

I think this would kill Ennis if there was a flashback at the end in Jack's room.

Amazing thought and it would make perfect sense..as jack is more expressive in his words....Ennis is expressive in his actions

Matt Nasty · « **Reply #125 on:** Jul 23, 2008, 09:49 AM »

great posts here recently! thanks everyone for sharing

tpe · « **Reply #126 on:** Jul 24, 2008, 08:03 AM »

Quote from: smartestsonia on Jul 23, 2008, 04:38 AM

Amazing thought and it would make perfect sense..as jack is more expressive in his words....Ennis is expressive in his actions

The words applied top Jr. can be applied to Ennis: you don't say much but you get your point across.

I think that Jack wasn't particularly more expressive in his words -- and I am not talking about his smooth talk as a salesman!

I think he is simply more expressive than Ennis. As I had said before, unlike Ennis, he wears his heart on his sleeve.

atalley · « **Reply #127 on:** Jul 24, 2008, 08:00 PM »

Very good point about Cassie's words to Alma Jr. Never thought of that before, but it is so true.

tpe · « **Reply #128 on:** Jul 25, 2008, 08:13 AM »

Quote from: atalley on Jul 24, 2008, 08:00 PM

Very good point about Cassie's words to Alma Jr. Never thought of that before, but it is so true.

I somehow see some strong similarities between Ennis and Jr. I think they understood each other, because they are alike in amny ways. But I don't think Jr. was tortured the way Ennis was -- but she probably understood him much more because she had an affinity for what her father was about.

smartestsonia · « **Reply #129 on:** Aug 25, 2008, 03:55 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Jul 24, 2008, 08:03 AM

The words applied top Jr. can be applied to Ennis: you don't say much but you get your point across.

I think that Jack wasn't particularly more expressive in his words -- and I am not talking about his smooth talk as a salesman! I think he is simply more expressive than Ennis. As I had said before, unlike Ennis, he wears his heart on his sleeve.

Yes, Jack is more expressive than Ennis...no doubt...Its more about feelings and what they feel is beyond words....they hardly spoke about their feeling...although Jack did speak of them more than Ennis..He did say that sometimes he misses him so much that he can hardly stand it..he also expresses his desire to live with Ennis...
I think Ennis was the most expressive in the last Scene of the film and also the scene in which they met after 4 years....

tpe · « **Reply #130 on:** Aug 25, 2008, 07:26 AM »

Quote from: smartestsonia on Aug 25, 2008, 03:55 AM

Yes, Jack is more expressive than Ennis...no doubt...Its more about feelings and what they feel is beyond words....they hardly spoke about their feeling...although Jack did speak of them more than Ennis..He did say that sometimes he misses him so much that he can hardly stand it..he also expresses his desire to live with Ennis...
I think Ennis was the most expressive in the last Scene of the film and also the scene in which they met after 4 years....

And I do think Jack was able to say "I love you" in so many other ways. Specifically, I remember the scene right after the Earl and Rich story -- where Jack touches Ennis's face: it is definitiely a wordless declaration of love.

Matt Nasty · « **Reply #131 on:** Aug 25, 2008, 11:22 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Aug 25, 2008, 07:26 AM

And I do think Jack was able to say "I love you" in so many other ways. Specifically, I remember the scene right after the Earl and Rich story -- where Jack touches Ennis's face: it is definitiely a wordless declaration of love.

yes! agreed 100%. thats undeniably true!

myprivatejack · « **Reply #132 on:** Aug 25, 2008, 11:29 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Aug 25, 2008, 07:26 AM

And I do think Jack was able to say "I love you" in so many other ways. Specifically, I remember the scene right after the Earl and Rich story -- where Jack touches Ennis's face: it is definitiely a wordless declaration of love.

Yes,I agree one more time¡But the two of them had many other ways of saying "I love you" to the other; even if,in Ennis case specially,they didn't know it and accept it.

atalley · « **Reply #133 on:** Aug 25, 2008, 07:01 PM »

Not in words, but in actions. As I mentioned earlier, driving 14 hrs. one way to meet up with Ennis-only to find that his dream had been shattered. Letting him know how much he missed him. Bringing up the subject of the cow/calf operation twice to Ennis, and also to his parents. SNIT.

smartestsonia · « **Reply #134 on:** Aug 26, 2008, 03:51 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Aug 25, 2008, 07:26 AM

And I do think Jack was able to say "I love you" in so many other ways. Specifically, I remember the scene right after the Earl and Rich story -- where Jack touches Ennis's face: it is definitiely a wordless declaration of love.

That scene was really soothing when Jack touched Ennis face....thats so true...also the scene when Ennis and Jack fight in the end.....there is love as well as pain in that...

tpe · « **Reply #135 on:** Aug 26, 2008, 07:31 AM »

Quote from: Matt Nasty on Aug 25, 2008, 11:22 AM

yes! agreed 100%. thats undeniably true!

Quote from: myprivatejack on Aug 25, 2008, 11:29 AM

Yes,I agree one more time¡But the two of them had many other ways of saying "I love you" to the other; even if,in Ennis case specially,they didn't know it and accept it.

Quote from: smartestsonia on Aug 26, 2008, 03:51 AM

That scene was really soothing when Jack touched Ennis face....thats so true...also the scene when Ennis and Jack fight in the end.....there is love as well as pain in that...

Thanks Matt, MPJ, and smartestsonia! One of the great things about BBM is that it is a wonderful love story even though the word "love" was never used until at the very last scene. But just because the word was never uttered didn't make it feel anything less than a love story, no? All their actions and wordless gestures spoke clearly about love, IMO. And as MPJ said, their actions were clear even though they not always understood or accepted the significance of it all.

tpe · « **Reply #136 on:** Aug 26, 2008, 07:32 AM »

Quote from: atalley on Aug 25, 2008, 07:01 PM

Not in words, but in actions. As I mentioned earlier, driving 14 hrs. one way to meet up with Ennis-only to find that his dream had been shattered. Letting him know how much he missed him. Bringing up the subject of the cow/calf operation twice to Ennis, and also to his parents. SNIT.

Definitely: not by words, but by gestures/actions. The 14-hour drive is so meaningful in this context. It speaks more strongly than a flat-out declaration of love.

smartestsonia · « **Reply #137 on:** Aug 27, 2008, 12:47 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Aug 26, 2008, 07:32 AM

Definitely: not by words, but by gestures/actions. The 14-hour drive is so meaningful in this context. It speaks more strongly than a flat-out declaration of love.

so true....what all must be going through his mind with the excitement of meeting Ennis during the 14 hour drive....its really deep....
this action speaks volumes

tpe · « **Reply #138 on:** Aug 27, 2008, 07:25 AM »

Yes, one can gauge the determination and the intensity of Jack's desire simply by contemplating that long drive... If there is any proof of affection, this has to be one of them... No words required.

Still, I guess some of us would want it verbalized -- as a kind of affirmation?

smartestsonia · « **Reply #139 on:** Aug 27, 2008, 08:12 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Aug 27, 2008, 07:25 AM

Yes, one can gauge the determination and the intensity of Jack's desire simply by contemplating that long drive... If there is any proof of affection, this has to be one of them... No words required.

Still, I guess some of us would want it verbalized -- as a kind of affirmation?

well that depends..honeslty I am a very verbally expressive person as well as I express through deeds and I speak my heart out ..so I can understand that some people expected things to be more verbal..
but now we need to see things from their perspective...Ennis and Jack were not people who were very verbally expressive by nature...but they were the ones who through their actions could connect and communicate..its wonderful as to how some people can have such a connection...Ennis and Jack surely did...

FlwrChild · « **Reply #140 on:** Aug 27, 2008, 11:35 AM »

They did indeed. And I doubt either of them would have needed to hear it often, but I think Jack would have wanted to hear it just once, to have it acknowledged and to know for sure. If Ennis were ever able to acknowledge it to himself, I think he would have wanted to hear it once too. Thereafter, their actions could have spoken for them and each would have had the assurance of how the other felt to interpret those actions.

myprivatejack · « **Reply #141 on:** Aug 27, 2008, 12:03 PM »

Quote from: smartestsonia on Aug 27, 2008, 08:12 AM

well that depends..honeslty I am a very verbally expressive person as well as I express through deeds and I speak my heart out ..so I can understand that some people expected things to be more verbal..
but now we need to see things from their perspective...Ennis and Jack were not people who were very verbally expressive by nature...but they were the ones who through their actions could connect and communicate..its wonderful as to how some people can have such a connection...Ennis and Jack surely did...

I know what you mean,since I'm also a very verbally expressive and sincere person; and this kind of people often need to hear what they already know-or they should know...-with acts and gestures,no?.But you're right in that we need to see things from Ennis and Jack's perspective,putting ourselves in their shoes according to their time and circumstances.IMO,to say "I love you" would have been for them as a further step,a kind of affirmation,as Thomas says?.It would surely have been,as it's for us when we need to hear it,as I said before.And Ennis specially wasn't prepared to admit all what there's behind this phrase.They connected,yes,but they had very often an undeniable and unbearable lack of verbal communication,and we have plenty of examples.

smartestsonia · « **Reply #142 on:** Aug 28, 2008, 12:52 AM »

Quote from: myprivatejack on Aug 27, 2008, 12:03 PM

I know what you mean,since I'm also a very verbally expressive and sincere person; and this kind of people often need to hear what they already know-or they should know...-with acts and gestures,no?.But you're right in that we need to see things from Ennis and Jack's perspective,putting ourselves in their shoes according to their time and circumstances.IMO,to say "I love you" would have been for them as a further step,a kind of affirmation,as Thomas says?.It would surely have been,as it's for us when we need to hear it,as I said before.And Ennis specially wasn't prepared to admit all what there's behind this phrase.They connected,yes,but they had very often an undeniable and unbearable lack of verbal communication,and we have plenty of examples.

so true....I think they could not express in words what they felt....it was something which in their generation was rear and so they could not get the right words.....
I guess we as audience wanted to hear alot of verbal phrases....

FlwrChild · « **Reply #143 on:** Aug 28, 2008, 07:30 AM »

But that's what I think is part of the brilliance of this movie. They never say "I love you" in words but it is one of the best depictions of a love story ever. That so many people were touched more by the love in this movie and the relationship between these two characters than any they'd seen before shows how perfectly the film was constructed and acted, that we could get so much without ever hearing those three words spoken.

tpe · « **Reply #144 on:** Aug 28, 2008, 07:35 AM »

I am thinking about the latest posts here, and it occurs to me that the deepest and the most profound feelings sometimes remain unsaid because it is nearly impossible to express. How does the common expression go? "Words failed them..."

smartestsonia · « **Reply #145 on:** Aug 28, 2008, 07:56 AM »

ya words just r too little to say all that they feel...its great as to how they conveyed their emotions through their gestures and even a line spoken by each of them was so deep and conveyed volumes

FlwrChild · « **Reply #146 on:** Aug 28, 2008, 08:03 AM »

They didn't say much, but they got their point across.

I agree, smartestsonia, that every line from them carried weight because of how much was already being expressed nonverbally.

That's a great way to describe it Thomas.

tpe · « **Reply #147 on:** Aug 28, 2008, 08:06 AM »

I think that in some of the most important moments of our own lives, we are speechless.

What they lacked in verbal expressiveness, they compensated via more than expressive actions/gestures -- no matter how clumsy and uncomfortable they appeared to be. True feelings can't be hidden, and no matter how awkward we are at expressing feelings, they find theri way to the heart of things.

Matt Nasty · « **Reply #148 on:** Aug 28, 2008, 09:38 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Aug 28, 2008, 08:06 AM

I think that in some of the most important moments of our own lives, we are speechless.

What they lacked in verbal expressiveness, they compensated via more than expressive actions/gestures -- no matter how clumsy and uncomfortable they appeared to be. True feelings can't be hidden, and no matter how awkward we are at expressing feelings, they find theri way to the heart of things.

wonderfully stated thomas!

Ranchand1 · « **Reply #149 on:** Aug 28, 2008, 08:19 PM »

Id like to add most men I have know haven't used them three words. I think "I love you" for many men round these parts at least would be to revealing and castratin if shot down, affections not returned. The good ones will work like a horse to prove they do. But them words. What is it about them words.