Author Topic: What if... ?!  (Read 179367 times)

cara1158

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What if... ?!
« on: Mar 02, 2006, 11:54 AM »
What if... Jack had not died?

Who wants to write a synopsis of what might have come next in the story?

I have a few wild-hair ideas but I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts first... ...

Offline tpe

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #1 on: Mar 02, 2006, 05:13 PM »
What if... Jack had not died?

Who wants to write a synopsis of what might have come next in the story?

I have a few wild-hair ideas but I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts first... ...

If we are to believe Gyllenhaal, Jack would have tried to break up with Ennis and get things going somehow with the Texas foreman.  Whether Jack would have succeeded in ultimately breaking up with Ennis is the interesting point.

As I had said in an earlier post, I cannot imagine Jack living without Ennis.  Hence the only logical direction I can move my story line is to have Jack killed.  Thus, I end up with roughly the same ending.  :'(

Offline Lilie

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #2 on: Mar 02, 2006, 06:17 PM »
Yup. No matter how you look at it, it always ends up tragically.

The first time I saw the movie, I couldn't believe Jack was dead. Seriously. I expected him to pop up at some point and tell Ennis "Hey, everyone thinks I died, we can be together now". (I know, it doesn't make sense, but I was in serious denial there).

But now that I think about it, I don't think a happy ending was possible for them. Even when I try to come up with other scenarios for the end of the story, the outcome is always the same. It's ultimately Jack's death that made Ennis truly realize his feelings and what Jack meant to him. They would never have been together the way they should have, had Jack lived.

Well, I depressed myself now. PBS is going strong tonight.  :'(

aimi15

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #3 on: Mar 02, 2006, 06:21 PM »
Yup. No matter how you look at it, it always ends up tragically.

The first time I saw the movie, I couldn't believe Jack was dead. Seriously. I expected him to pop up at some point and tell Ennis "Hey, everyone thinks I died, we can be together now". (I know, it doesn't make sense, but I was in serious denial there).

But now that I think about it, I don't think a happy ending was possible for them. Even when I try to come up with other scenarios for the end of the story, the outcome is always the same. It's ultimately Jack's death that made Ennis truly realize his feelings and what Jack meant to him. They would never have been together the way they should have, had Jack lived.

Well, I depressed myself now. PBS is going strong tonight.  :'(
Lilie when i first watched film, the bit where Ennis realises Alma JR left her jumper and he opens door, i was thinking 'right pleeeaaase let Jack be there please please pleeeaaassse' Would have been a pretty rubbish ending though BOOO!!!!

Offline Lilie

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #4 on: Mar 02, 2006, 07:01 PM »
Yup. No matter how you look at it, it always ends up tragically.

The first time I saw the movie, I couldn't believe Jack was dead. Seriously. I expected him to pop up at some point and tell Ennis "Hey, everyone thinks I died, we can be together now". (I know, it doesn't make sense, but I was in serious denial there).

But now that I think about it, I don't think a happy ending was possible for them. Even when I try to come up with other scenarios for the end of the story, the outcome is always the same. It's ultimately Jack's death that made Ennis truly realize his feelings and what Jack meant to him. They would never have been together the way they should have, had Jack lived.

Well, I depressed myself now. PBS is going strong tonight.  :'(
Lilie when i first watched film, the bit where Ennis realises Alma JR left her jumper and he opens door, i was thinking 'right pleeeaaase let Jack be there please please pleeeaaassse' Would have been a pretty rubbish ending though BOOO!!!!

Me too!! Of course I realize it would have ruined the whole story, but damn it, I couldn't accept that he had died.

Sunflower79

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #5 on: Mar 02, 2006, 08:07 PM »
i thought the same thing myself.."he can' be dead..." he is going to come back and there going to be happy..then I came to the realization that he did die..but if he did live I think the movie would have been very different and maybe not as good..as I read somewhere this wasn't a typical romance where two people meet, fall in love, fight/break up, and get back together at the end of the movie happy and in love..it wasn't typical..as much as it would have been nice if they did end up together I don't think the movie would have had the same effect it had..

Offline LuvJackNasty

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #6 on: Mar 02, 2006, 08:55 PM »
I was in denial too the first time. I had that same thought in my head hoping that Jack was faking his death or Ennis was just having a nightmare and they'd be happy together. To have that happen after the emotional last scene together was almost too much to bear.  I had not read the story and knew pretty much nothing about BBM, other than what I had seen in the trailer, going into that first viewing. It would have been a nice ending to have them "live happily ever after", but that is not always the case in life.  I don't think the story would have such an impact if we had gotten that "feel good" ending. I've read a few of the fan fictions that have the alternate happier endings and I've enjoyed that "what if",  but it just makes their "reality" that much sadder to me- what could've and should've been.
“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one ~ Imagine- J. Lennon

Offline nspat

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #7 on: Mar 31, 2006, 08:29 PM »
I also felt Jack would not make another trip up to Wyoming, since Randall was his new "fishing buddy" in Texas; but most of us addicted will always feel Jack would always come back to Ennis, even if he "wished I knew how to quit you" comment, was a sign of frustration, for Jack not wanting to live together all those years; he said "you remember this one thing, we could of had a good life, but you didn't want it Ennis"

Offline Mars

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #8 on: Apr 01, 2006, 02:59 AM »

As previously and better told by others, tragedy fixes their love in the human eternity.
Otherwise, their intimate connection would probably fade away: Ennis paralyzed by his
fears, Jack in search of other loves which might give him relief to his necessities.....
It's a one way situation.We have to admit  its intrinsic sadness.... :(

Offline Stephen

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #9 on: Apr 03, 2006, 09:26 AM »
Yes, Mars, we have to admit its intrinsic sadness; without this tragic pain, the story would just fade away as most other Hollywood stories that get wrapped up with superficially happy endings.....Jack is dead. Ennis will spend the rest of his life with regret, sadder but wiser, and always lonely, as his spirit wanders Brokeback Mountain......
"One more chain to break to get closer to you"

Offline Mars

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #10 on: Apr 03, 2006, 09:34 AM »
Yes, Mars, we have to admit its intrinsic sadness; without this tragic pain, the story would just fade away as most other Hollywood stories that get wrapped up with superficially happy endings.....Jack is dead. Ennis will spend the rest of his life with regret, sadder but wiser, and always lonely, as his spirit wanders Brokeback Mountain......

Yes, Stephen it's just so...as you describe it... :( :'(

Offline Ginevra

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #11 on: Apr 03, 2006, 09:45 AM »
I agree with all of you about the intrinsic sadness of the story and the inevitability of the tragic ending.


STILL.....a girl can dream, can't she? ;D

"I have spread my dreams under your feet; tread softly because you tread on my dreams". (WB Yeats)

Offline Mars

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #12 on: Apr 03, 2006, 09:46 AM »

Yes, Ginevra
a girl can...must dream! ;D

Offline BBBOY

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #13 on: Apr 03, 2006, 12:56 PM »
Yes, Mars, we have to admit its intrinsic sadness; without this tragic pain, the story would just fade away as most other Hollywood stories that get wrapped up with superficially happy endings.....Jack is dead. Ennis will spend the rest of his life with regret, sadder but wiser, and always lonely, as his spirit wanders Brokeback Mountain......

And truth be told, any other ending and we would not have Brokeback Mountain nor this forum nor all the wonderful people here. It is this great unbelievable tragedy that moves us and unites us here.
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken darken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon.

Offline tpe

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #14 on: Apr 03, 2006, 01:03 PM »
And truth be told, any other ending and we would not have Brokeback Mountain nor this forum nor all the wonderful people here. It is this great unbelievable tragedy that moves us and unites us here.

I agree, BBBOY.

But, to be sure, we are not just unthinking suckers for tragedy.  We identify with the ending because it is so real.    In a sense, it is not the tragedy that gets to us.  Rather, waht gets to us is the love that is portrayed with true depth and pathos. 

Because of that love, the tragedy of the end becomes more compelling. 



Offline welshwitch

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #15 on: Apr 19, 2006, 01:57 PM »
The ending is inevitable, as in all the great tragedies. Our flaws and failings are encoded in our psyches; Ennis couldn't change what he was, Jack had to some degree accepted this and looked elsewhere, in Mexico for physical satisfaction and with the ranch foremen for companionship. By the end he was compromising and settling for less; I think he knew no other ending was possible. Ennis was  stronger, or more stubborn, depending on how you read him; Jack was more needy or less faithful, more human perhaps in giving in and in trying to avoid admitting he'd done so til that last terrible meeting.
Only in the distant detached reality of Brokeback Mountain could they even approach being what they were. The ending is implicit in their first parting - that they didn't recognise that is the way we behave when confronted with what we can't bear to believe.
Love isn't always the answer, isn't always enough; that it exists even briefly is the miracle.

Offline forbiddenlovers

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #16 on: Apr 19, 2006, 03:07 PM »
Whoo, I'm glad I'm not the only one that shares this thinking. I kept thinking that Jack is going to show up and say "hey, I faked my death so I could live with you in secret and we can run off and live on BBM" Yeah, interesting thoughts in my head sometimes, lol. But as much as it tears me up that Jack dies and that they didn't end up together, I wouldn't have liked the ending of the movie as much.  The truth is in the tragedy of them being torn apart like that. I'm glad it wasn't just another Hollywood movie where guy meets girl (in this case guy meets guy) guy loses guy, guy gets girl back.  I'm not happy that they aren't together, but I'm happy with the movie. :)
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Offline Stephen

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #17 on: Apr 20, 2006, 07:26 AM »
I think it's the inevitable "what ifs" that keep our imagination actively participating in the tragedy of BBM, and because we empathize profoundly with the characters, we begin to change our own feelings so that in our own lives we do not want to say " I wish I knew how to quit you....."  but rather, How can I keep you? How can we make this work and not take it for granted.........
"One more chain to break to get closer to you"

Offline TwoSkins

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #18 on: Apr 20, 2006, 07:38 AM »
Well Put Stephen - I learned alot from this movie - I have regained my sence of humanity and I look to learn how not to take things for granted...especially those that are close to me!!
BBM a Haunting Experience - the story, the screenplay the film..

Offline NoReins

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #19 on: Apr 20, 2006, 07:41 AM »
I think it's the inevitable "what ifs" that keep our imagination actively participating in the tragedy of BBM, and because we empathize profoundly with the characters, we begin to change our own feelings so that in our own lives we do not want to say " I wish I knew how to quit you....."  but rather, How can I keep you? How can we make this work and not take it for granted.........

Stephen, that's beautiful.

Being totally candid here, I think Brokeback has affected the way I view my relationship with my boyfriend. We've been together 15 years and sometimes you just take it for granted after that number of years. Since I saw BBM, and since I started reading how other people had been affected by this movie, I'd like to think I've been trying a wee bit harder to keep it special. It's not big, earth-shattering things, just things like giving him a hug instead of just sitting at opposite ends of the sofa watching TV, trying not to complain about the little things that annoy me (because they're so little in the grand scheme of things) and just generally trying to show him every day that I love him. Saying it every so often helps too - and, let's face it, that's one of the biggest messages of Brokeback.

Not sure why I felt the need to share that with complete strangers but I somehow get the feeling that you guys will understand what I'm saying. Kinda glad I'm hiding behind an ambiguous user name, though :-[
He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

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Offline TwoSkins

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #20 on: Apr 20, 2006, 10:53 AM »
Hey NoRegns!
Looks like you and I joined this group a day apart! welcome - I can relate to what you shared above. This forum is a safe place to share. And I think ive only been here 2 - 3 days...
I need it so i have a place to talk about the experience of seeing this film - lots do not see what we all did! I guess that is what brings us all together here on our own mountain...
BBM a Haunting Experience - the story, the screenplay the film..

Offline keren_b

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #21 on: Apr 20, 2006, 11:56 AM »
The first time I saw the movie, I couldn't believe Jack was dead. Seriously. I expected him to pop up at some point and tell Ennis "Hey, everyone thinks I died, we can be together now". (I know, it doesn't make sense, but I was in serious denial there).

Lilie, I know what you mean about denial. you just don't want to believe that. When I first saw the movie I actually didn't notice the "DECEASED" stamp on the postcard. so when Ennis called lureen and she started telling him what'd happend I thought "okay, he had an accident and broke his face, he's probably in the hospital and now Ennis is going to visit him and realize that he can't live without him..." I just couldn't accept the possibility that he's dead. when Lureen said that he has drowned in his own blood, I think my heart had stopped beating.
The truth is... sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it.

Offline Stephen

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #22 on: Apr 21, 2006, 08:42 AM »
Keren, you reminded me of my first response to my first viewing of the film, and the same happened to me! I recall the silence of the soundtrack as the camera hovered over Ennis so we could read the card, but I didn't even notice the "Deceased" ! And so Lureen's chilly narrative of Jack's death hit me like a bolt.....I had trouble processing the implications of Jack's death and was so distraught for Ennis, I could hardly breathe;  I had all these "What ifs"  consuming my exhausted brain, and broken heart!
"One more chain to break to get closer to you"

Offline welshwitch

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #23 on: Apr 27, 2006, 04:06 PM »
With all the campaigns to keep BBM in the public mind and all th eposts on all the forums, I wonder whether NoReins hasn't said what really matters, that the movie's legacy ought to be to make those of us whop have responded to it live our lives a little differently as a result.If the world become a slightly more loving place, the story and movie will have done more than anyone could ever hope for.

Offline jakestowel

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #24 on: Sep 11, 2006, 10:28 PM »
Jack said he wished he knew how to quit Ennis.  This means he did not know how to do it, so he couldn't have and and as far as we know, he never did.That does not mean he could not leave Ennis and find other avenues.  I read the fanfic Somebody New and have been able to come to some grips with the feelings I was having about BBM. I choke all the time. I haven't finished this story yet, but I am finding it easier to breathe.  Fanfic never had an interest for me until I read this one.
Fafner

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #25 on: Sep 11, 2006, 10:37 PM »
Great post Fafner  ^f^

Offline tpe

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #26 on: Sep 12, 2006, 06:43 AM »
Jack said he wished he knew how to quit Ennis.  This means he did not know how to do it, so he couldn't have and and as far as we know, he never did.That does not mean he could not leave Ennis and find other avenues.  I read the fanfic Somebody New and have been able to come to some grips with the feelings I was having about BBM. I choke all the time. I haven't finished this story yet, but I am finding it easier to breathe.  Fanfic never had an interest for me until I read this one.
Fafner

Welcome, Fafner.  And I sympathize with the way you feel.  I can't bring myself to watch the dvd by myself -- most especially the final half-hour of it.  I do agree with your interpretation: "I wish I knew" indicates that he didn't know how.  Perhpas he tried to in the end -- but died before anything became of it...


Offline welshwitch

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #27 on: Sep 12, 2006, 02:36 PM »
"I wish i knew" might also be taken as an indication that Jack would like to be able to do it. "I wish I knew how to " do whatever usually suggests that the person is hoping to be told how to do it - but Jack has no way of knowing how to stop loving Ennis - no-one can tell you to fall in or out of love. Nevertheless at this point i think Jack is half-wishing that he didn;t feel as he does, because they are stuck in a cul de sac.

Offline tpe

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #28 on: Sep 12, 2006, 05:29 PM »
"I wish i knew" might also be taken as an indication that Jack would like to be able to do it. "I wish I knew how to " do whatever usually suggests that the person is hoping to be told how to do it - but Jack has no way of knowing how to stop loving Ennis - no-one can tell you to fall in or out of love. Nevertheless at this point i think Jack is half-wishing that he didn;t feel as he does, because they are stuck in a cul de sac.

Even had Ennis agreed to meet in August, would you not think that Jack was living on borrowed time?  It would have been a Phyrric victory, at the very best.  He knew that he was trapped between Ennis's fear and his own heart.

What if you slept?
And what if in your sleep you dreamed?
And what if in your dream you went to
heaven and there plucked a strange and
beautiful flow'r?
And what if when you awoke, you had the
flower in your hand?
Ah! What then?


(Coleridge)

Offline rick65

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Re: What if... ?!
« Reply #29 on: Sep 12, 2006, 09:10 PM »
Jack was angry mostly at his feelings for Ennis, not at Ennis himself. When he said this, after Ennis informed Jack that he couldn't make it until November, Jack wished that his feelings weren't so strong that this absence would surely affect him. I don't think he wanted to get rid of Ennis, whom he would drive fourteen hours straight for every chance he got. In this last scene together, both of them declared the hardships they had to endure to be able to set up a meeting time. Jack had sacrificed a more intimate relationship with Ennis, due to Ennis' fears, and as he felt "something I don't hardly ever get!" Ennis doesn't look for permanent jobs, so that he could be ready whenever Jack had the chance to see him. They both gave up much throughout their lives so that their encounters could manifest. In this scene it is verbalized. Yet, whatever they had done before and would continue to do, to see their way thru this relationship, it wasn't the same as when they were young and more free of responsibility. A time so perfectly depicted by the dozy embrace which Jack receives from Ennis, that finishes this scene, and we see Jack reflecting on this ideal moment of love. The most fitting word to describe how they felt and how they will always feel.  :'( :'(
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