Author Topic: What if... ?! (Read 179192 times)

greenfrog · « **Reply #30 on:** Sep 13, 2006, 12:23 AM »

I don't think Jack was angry at Ennis (like you said Ricky) but I think he was more frustrated with him.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #31 on:** Sep 13, 2006, 12:31 AM »

Quote from: greenfrog on Sep 13, 2006, 12:23 AM

I don't think Jack was angry at Ennis (like you said Ricky) but I think he was more frustrated with him.

Oh yes greenfrog. I think Jack was very frustrated with Ennis. I can hear Jack say to Ennis, Damn it Ennis. I got this guy who wants ME. He approached ME. He might even be willing to live with ME. But I don't want him Ennis. I want YOU. But "you don't want it Ennis." All I want is to be happy with YOU Ennis, not one or two high altitude f**ks a year. I need YOU. I need your love. :\'(

greenfrog · « **Reply #32 on:** Sep 13, 2006, 12:35 AM »

And here comes the tears :\'( :\'( :\'(

That scene is just heartbreaking.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #33 on:** Sep 13, 2006, 01:11 AM »

Quote from: greenfrog on Sep 13, 2006, 12:35 AM

And here comes the tears :\'( :\'( :\'(

That scene is just heartbreaking.

Congratulations on your 5000 post! Also, if Jack would have come down with his knee just a few inches to the right, Ennis would have been crying for real.

tpe · « **Reply #34 on:** Sep 13, 2006, 06:39 AM »

Quote from: rick65 on Sep 12, 2006, 09:10 PM

Jack was angry mostly at his feelings for Ennis, not at Ennis himself. When he said this, after Ennis informed Jack that he couldn't make it until November, Jack wished that his feelings weren't so strong that this absence would surely affect him. I don't think he wanted to get rid of Ennis, whom he would drive fourteen hours straight for every chance he got. In this last scene together, both of them declared the hardships they had to endure to be able to set up a meeting time. Jack had sacrificed a more intimate relationship with Ennis, due to Ennis' fears, and as he felt "something I don't hardly ever get!" Ennis doesn't look for permanent jobs, so that he could be ready whenever Jack had the chance to see him. They both gave up much throughout their lives so that their encounters could manifest. In this scene it is verbalized. Yet, whatever they had done before and would continue to do, to see their way thru this relationship, it wasn't the same as when they were young and more free of responsibility. A time so perfectly depicted by the dozy embrace which Jack receives from Ennis, that finishes this scene, and we see Jack reflecting on this ideal moment of love. The most fitting word to describe how they felt and how they will always feel. :'( :'(

THis is certainly an interesting way of putting it. I am sure there is more than a grain of truth to this. I do agree that Jack was angry with himself at not being able to master his emotions for Ennis. And yet, he could not help wanting what he craved for: companionship to last a lifetime.

tpe · « **Reply #35 on:** Sep 13, 2006, 06:40 AM »

Quote from: greenfrog on Sep 13, 2006, 12:23 AM

I don't think Jack was angry at Ennis (like you said Ricky) but I think he was more frustrated with him.

Frustrated with Ennis, and with himself, I wager...

tpe · « **Reply #36 on:** Sep 13, 2006, 06:42 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Sep 13, 2006, 12:31 AM

Quote from: greenfrog on Sep 13, 2006, 12:23 AM
I don't think Jack was angry at Ennis (like you said Ricky) but I think he was more frustrated with him.

Oh yes greenfrog. I think Jack was very frustrated with Ennis. I can hear Jack say to Ennis, Damn it Ennis. I got this guy who wants ME. He approached ME. He might even be willing to live with ME. But I don't want him Ennis. I want YOU. But "you don't want it Ennis." All I want is to be happy with YOU Ennis, not one or two high altitude f**ks a year. I need YOU. I need your love. :\'(

I do agree with this subtext. So sad. :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #37 on:** Sep 13, 2006, 06:44 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Sep 13, 2006, 01:11 AM

Quote from: greenfrog on Sep 13, 2006, 12:35 AM
And here comes the tears :\'( :\'( :\'(

That scene is just heartbreaking.

Congratulations on your 5000 post! Also, if Jack would have come down with his knee just a few inches to the right, Ennis would have been crying for real.

OOT: indeed, congratulations, greenfrog.

Now about that pic: we can tell that Jack was angry with himself -- for hurting Ennis AND for not being able to change the status quo.

Condiments · « **Reply #38 on:** Sep 15, 2006, 09:50 PM »

Quote from: Fafner on Sep 11, 2006, 10:28 PM

Jack said he wished he knew how to quit Ennis. This means he did not know how to do it, so he couldn't have and and as far as we know, he never did.That does not mean he could not leave Ennis and find other avenues. I read the fanfic Somebody New and have been able to come to some grips with the feelings I was having about BBM. I choke all the time. I haven't finished this story yet, but I am finding it easier to breathe. Fanfic never had an interest for me until I read this one.
Fafner

It's because of the tragic ending to the film that BBM fanfic started. Somebody New is a MUST read for just about everyone here. It is beautifully written and so well-crafted in believability that it creates a seamless transition to an alternate reality of the end of the movie.

It's about healing for those of us who need it after the fiilm.

Annie Proulx evidentally said something to the effect that she was unable to envision any other ending for the characters. But we can!

Shelley

welshwitch · « **Reply #39 on:** Sep 16, 2006, 11:33 AM »

No other ending was possible for them - they are caught up in a situation exectly like that of a classic tragedy. But wish-fulfilllment is a powerful thing...

greenfrog · « **Reply #40 on:** Sep 16, 2006, 06:14 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Sep 16, 2006, 11:33 AM

No other ending was possible for them - they are caught up in a situation exectly like that of a classic tragedy. But wish-fulfilllment is a powerful thing...

Very true . . .

:\'(

rpmnh · « **Reply #41 on:** Sep 16, 2006, 06:43 PM »

Quote from: NoReins on Apr 20, 2006, 07:41 AM

Being totally candid here, I think Brokeback has affected the way I view my relationship with my boyfriend. We've been together 15 years and sometimes you just take it for granted after that number of years. Since I saw BBM, and since I started reading how other people had been affected by this movie, I'd like to think I've been trying a wee bit harder to keep it special. It's not big, earth-shattering things, just things like giving him a hug instead of just sitting at opposite ends of the sofa watching TV, trying not to complain about the little things that annoy me (because they're so little in the grand scheme of things) and just generally trying to show him every day that I love him. Saying it every so often helps too - and, let's face it, that's one of the biggest messages of Brokeback.

Not sure why I felt the need to share that with complete strangers but I somehow get the feeling that you guys will understand what I'm saying. Kinda glad I'm hiding behind an ambiguous user name, though :-[

I could have written this post myself! BBM has had the same effect on me in regard to my relationship, which just happens to be 15 years strong as well! When I first read this post, I had to double check the author to make sure that it wasn't me and that I hadn't written it previously and had just forgotten...

greenfrog · « **Reply #42 on:** Sep 18, 2006, 01:43 AM »

That will happen a lot around here.

tpe · « **Reply #43 on:** Sep 18, 2006, 07:45 AM »

Quote from: greenfrog on Sep 18, 2006, 01:43 AM

That will happen a lot around here.

Amazing, nonetheless...

rpmnh · « **Reply #44 on:** Sep 18, 2006, 11:48 AM »

Quote from: tpe on Sep 18, 2006, 07:45 AM

Quote from: greenfrog on Sep 18, 2006, 01:43 AM
That will happen a lot around here.

Amazing, nonetheless...

Yes, exactly. That is one aspect of this forum that I do treasure. The likelihood of running into like minded individuals randomly in the course of day to day life is extremely minimal. We really do owe everyone involved in creating BBM, as well as this forum, for providing us with an opportunity to connect, albeit primarily virtually...

aintfoolin · « **Reply #45 on:** Sep 26, 2006, 02:40 PM »

Jack death shocked me the first time I watched the film. I was caught completely off guard. Credit must go to J. Gyllanhall for his portrayal of this beloved character. Obviously his heart and soul went inti this role and totally captivated so many of us emotionally. I too kept hoping the postcard was a mistake, and wanted so badly for him to reappear in the movie. From that point on as Ennis was left without "closure" I was too.

If he would've lived , ( and my opinion goes back and forth) Jack would have met with Ennis again IMO, cause my own personal experience of being with some one for 20 years it's not that easy to let go. Ennis was a part of Jack,just like an arm or leg by this time.The bond was there and he would've kept trying to get a total commitment from Ennis. I understand the "wish I knew how to quit you" statement from Jack. He could'nt accept loving anyone else like he loved Ennis. Wether Ennis would have seen the light and committed to Jack? well he did try to reach him again, which tells me he at least wanted to. Maybe with all his doubts he needed Jack to convince him that they could have that sweet life.......But he never got that last chance. Devastating.

tpe · « **Reply #46 on:** Sep 26, 2006, 03:30 PM »

I sometimes think of the possibility of what Jack may have done had he lived and settled down with Randal.

I think Jack would still have loved Ennis, even if he had tried to move on. Would he have found happiness with Randal in the long run?

We could have asked the same question when he married Lureen.

I would think that the greatest impediment for Jack finding happiness with Randal is that he will not forget Ennis so long as he or Ennis lives. How long would it have taken for Jack to resist seeing Ennis? Another 4 years perhaps?

No matter. I think there is something cyclic in Jack's predicament. I think he is only truly happy with Ennis, and this will be the germ that will perhaps destroy his relationship with Randal.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #47 on:** Sep 26, 2006, 03:52 PM »

Randall aint got nothin on Ennis IMO as far as Jack is concerned. Ennis has Jack"s heart and he's totally wrapped around Ennis's little finger. Yeah, Randall may have offered Jack stability in a relationship, but what if Ennis said" ok Jack I'll take you up on this sweet life business? So long Randall is what I'm thinkin. In a heartbeat. Jack"s real lovewill always be for Ennis I beleive. He's invested 20 years in him.

tpe · « **Reply #48 on:** Sep 26, 2006, 04:22 PM »

Yes. I do think that, like Lureen, Randall would be set aside inevitably. There can be only one sweet life for Jack. Scraps from the banquet table are never enough...

Umi_Slash · « **Reply #49 on:** Sep 28, 2006, 09:44 PM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Sep 13, 2006, 01:11 AM

Quote from: greenfrog on Sep 13, 2006, 12:35 AM
And here comes the tears :\'( :\'( :\'(

That scene is just heartbreaking.

Congratulations on your 5000 post! Also, if Jack would have come down with his knee just a few inches to the right, Ennis would have been crying for real.

LOL!!!!

greenfrog · « **Reply #50 on:** Sep 28, 2006, 11:17 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Sep 26, 2006, 04:22 PM

Yes. I do think that, like Lureen, Randall would be set aside inevitably. There can be only one sweet life for Jack. Scraps from the banquet table are never enough...

:\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #51 on:** Sep 29, 2006, 07:38 AM »

I often wonder though what Randall must have been like. He has been discussed in a number of threads. Did he indeed agree with Jack's plan? If he did, he must have had certain redeeming qualities. We know how Jack felt -- he really wanted Ennis and the relationship with Randall was born out of despair. But could Randall have been sincerely in love with Jack? I know that in some of the other discussions about Randall, he does not come out very nicely.

More tantalizing is the possibility that -- although he always loved Ennis above all -- Jack could have been really in love with Randall also. A klesser love, no doubt, but still genuine and holding true affection.

welshwitch · « **Reply #52 on:** Sep 29, 2006, 09:25 AM »

Or of course Randall could have fallen in love with Jack, as Jack did with Ennis, only to find that while Jack cared about him, Ennis, unattainable though he was, still mattered most to Jack. Then you have yet another tragedy unfolding....

aintfoolin · « **Reply #53 on:** Sep 29, 2006, 05:04 PM »

Your right, Randall has been discussed in numerous threads. I guess that his position in the story makes him significant, being Jack's lover on the side. It's important to note that he was really the only one of Jack's lovers who had the stability and the means to give Jack an future alternative to Ennis if he so decides to do so. I could very well believe that he could've fallin in love with Jack and been happy, but Jack would'nt have been. Jack's love for Ennis would have eventually desroyed the relationship.{ Do we know if Randall even knew about Ennis}?

welshwitch · « **Reply #54 on:** Sep 30, 2006, 09:14 AM »

I can'r see how he could NOT have known, or been about to find out, anyway. If Jack meant to take him up to Lightning Flat and had discussed it with him, at some point he''d have to mention Ennis, otherwise his father would be bound to have some snide comment to make when Randall appeared after Jack had talked so often about bringing Ennis.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #55 on:** Oct 02, 2006, 03:07 AM »

Yeah, It would be just like the ol man to rub it in Jack's face what a louse! He got the chance to show his true colors by mentioning Randall "( or another fella)" to Ennis when Ennis as visiting them after Jack's death. Ass.

tpe · « **Reply #56 on:** Oct 02, 2006, 07:49 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Sep 30, 2006, 09:14 AM

I can'r see how he could NOT have known, or been about to find out, anyway. If Jack meant to take him up to Lightning Flat and had discussed it with him, at some point he''d have to mention Ennis, otherwise his father would be bound to have some snide comment to make when Randall appeared after Jack had talked so often about bringing Ennis.

Yes, I do somehow feel that Randal must have known. But I really don't have hard evidence for this. Big what if: would Randall go through with Jack's plans if he knew that he was only second choice? I think he would have.

welshwitch · « **Reply #57 on:** Oct 02, 2006, 09:42 AM »

If it's a question of second-best or nothing, secong-best might be prefereable. Being absolute is very romantic in theory; in reality we often have to take what we can get rather than what we'd ideally like.If Randall is as keen on Jack as he appears to be, and unless Jack tell shis father he's bringing someone else without discussing it with Randall first, he's evidently prepared to settle for something rather than nothing - and if the alternative is a life with LaShawn....

aintfoolin · « **Reply #58 on:** Oct 02, 2006, 10:20 AM »

WW your comments are always so right on. If I were Randall, ( Iknow, I know ) and I had the choice Jack or LaShawn? hmmmm .......Jack.......... Sorry, LaShawn was talking while I tried to think.

welshwitch · « **Reply #59 on:** Oct 02, 2006, 10:53 AM »

Almost completely O/T, but can you imagine Randall leaving LaShawn, moving up to Lightning Flat, then LaSahawn pursuing him there and coming face-to-face with John Twist?