Topic: Did Jack finally give up on Ennis? - possible spoilers

[stacp]

I guess what I am trying to say is that Jack's decision to 'move on' becomes the vehicle by which, in the end, Ennis comes to full realization of their love.  Moving on did not mean an end to love.  This is obvious to anyone who has ever gone through the death of a loved one.  For Jack, it meant resignation and a certain grace (even in bitterness!) to see that their love after all went beyond physical proximity and sex.  That is obvious in the final recollection of that dozy embrace.  He had come to realize that their love would endure because it remains a dream that is pristine -- untouched by the viscitudes of thier pained and troubled lives.

This last scene with Ennis and Jack just kills me every time.  I want to scream at my screen "Just get in the damn car and finally be together!"  But I'm not so sure Jack actually made the decision to move on.  I do think he was fed up with denying who he was and with Ennis' refusal to change and be together.  A confrontation between the two of them, with all their issues, was inevitable (after all they were together for 20 years!).  But I don't think Jack "quit" Ennis.  He laments he wished he knew how to quit Ennis; seems like he's maybe tried but can't.  He says "damn you, Ennis" while he's holding Ennis.  I think he is saying "damn you, Ennis, you can't admit you love me, won't live with me, but, dammit, I can't let you go."  Ennis sends that postcard about Nov. 7th, so Jack must not have told him explicitly the relationship was over.  I think Jack is frustrated when Ennis drives away, and he goes up to LF to see his folks immediately after the confrontation.  Maybe he's just blowing off steam when he mentions the "other fella"  to his folks; kind of like "I'll show him."  Maybe Jack was just "thinking aloud."  As Jack's dad says "it never came to pass."  Now we'll never know if Randall (the other fellow) was anything more than a f*ck buddy to Jack, but to make myself feel better, I always think of it this way.  I don't know how it all went down, but, to ease the pain, I picture that if Jack had lived, he would have redlined it all the way to Pine Creek on Nov. 7th.

[FlwrChild]

I guess what I am trying to say is that Jack's decision to 'move on' becomes the vehicle by which, in the end, Ennis comes to full realization of their love.  Moving on did not mean an end to love.  This is obvious to anyone who has ever gone through the death of a loved one.  For Jack, it meant resignation and a certain grace (even in bitterness!) to see that their love after all went beyond physical proximity and sex.  That is obvious in the final recollection of that dozy embrace.  He had come to realize that their love would endure because it remains a dream that is pristine -- untouched by the viscitudes of thier pained and troubled lives.

This last scene with Ennis and Jack just kills me every time.  I want to scream at my screen "Just get in the damn car and finally be together!"  But I'm not so sure Jack actually made the decision to move on.  I do think he was fed up with denying who he was and with Ennis' refusal to change and be together.  A confrontation between the two of them, with all their issues, was inevitable (after all they were together for 20 years!).  But I don't think Jack "quit" Ennis.  He laments he wished he knew how to quit Ennis; seems like he's maybe tried but can't.  He says "damn you, Ennis" while he's holding Ennis.  I think he is saying "damn you, Ennis, you can't admit you love me, won't live with me, but, dammit, I can't let you go."  Ennis sends that postcard about Nov. 7th, so Jack must not have told him explicitly the relationship was over.  I think Jack is frustrated when Ennis drives away, and he goes up to LF to see his folks immediately after the confrontation.  Maybe he's just blowing off steam when he mentions the "other fella"  to his folks; kind of like "I'll show him."  Maybe Jack was just "thinking aloud."  As Jack's dad says "it never came to pass."  Now we'll never know if Randall (the other fellow) was anything more than a f*ck buddy to Jack, but to make myself feel better, I always think of it this way.  I don't know how it all went down, but, to ease the pain, I picture that if Jack had lived, he would have redlined it all the way to Pine Creek on Nov. 7th.

Great post. I am quite sure Jack would have redlined it all the way to see Ennis. But I never thought about Mr Twist's reference to Randall in that light. I like your idea about Jack 'just blowing off steam.' I'm going to hold onto the idea - makes me feel a little better.

[NoReins]

This last scene with Ennis and Jack just kills me every time.  I want to scream at my screen "Just get in the damn car and finally be together!"  But I'm not so sure Jack actually made the decision to move on.  I do think he was fed up with denying who he was and with Ennis' refusal to change and be together.  A confrontation between the two of them, with all their issues, was inevitable (after all they were together for 20 years!).  But I don't think Jack "quit" Ennis.  He laments he wished he knew how to quit Ennis; seems like he's maybe tried but can't.  He says "damn you, Ennis" while he's holding Ennis.  I think he is saying "damn you, Ennis, you can't admit you love me, won't live with me, but, dammit, I can't let you go."

stacp - that's exactly how I feel about it. Your last sentence is perfect - nothing anyone says will shake my belief that this is precisely what Jack meant when he said "damn you Ennis"

[FlwrChild]

This last scene with Ennis and Jack just kills me every time.  I want to scream at my screen "Just get in the damn car and finally be together!"  But I'm not so sure Jack actually made the decision to move on.  I do think he was fed up with denying who he was and with Ennis' refusal to change and be together.  A confrontation between the two of them, with all their issues, was inevitable (after all they were together for 20 years!).  But I don't think Jack "quit" Ennis.  He laments he wished he knew how to quit Ennis; seems like he's maybe tried but can't.  He says "damn you, Ennis" while he's holding Ennis.  I think he is saying "damn you, Ennis, you can't admit you love me, won't live with me, but, dammit, I can't let you go."

stacp - that's exactly how I feel about it. Your last sentence is perfect - nothing anyone says will shake my belief that this is precisely what Jack meant when he said "damn you Ennis"

Absolutely! No doubt about it. That "Damn you Ennis" was full of anguished LOVE.

[Patriot1]

stacp - that's exactly how I feel about it. Your last sentence is perfect - nothing anyone says will shake my belief that this is precisely what Jack meant when he said "damn you Ennis"

And yet Jack leaves the parking lot and drives to Lightening Flat and tells his parents he is bringing someone else home to help run the ranch.

No doubt in my mind Jack would always love Ennis, but, he had decided to move on and let Ennis get on with his life.

[FlwrChild]

stacp - that's exactly how I feel about it. Your last sentence is perfect - nothing anyone says will shake my belief that this is precisely what Jack meant when he said "damn you Ennis"

And yet Jack leaves the parking lot and drives to Lightening Flat and tells his parents he is bringing someone else home to help run the ranch.

No doubt in my mind Jack would always love Ennis, but, he had decided to move on and let Ennis get on with his life.

I love that we can all jump in with different ideas and theories about this story. And we learn so much from each other. But at the same time we cling so fiercely to our own beliefs about our boys and what they felt or would have done, etc.(as I cling to my belief that as much as he might have wanted to, Jack could no sooner let go of Ennis that cut off his own leg ). There's something so protective about it, don't you think?

[Patriot1]

And yet Jack leaves the parking lot and drives to Lightening Flat and tells his parents he is bringing someone else home to help run the ranch.

No doubt in my mind Jack would always love Ennis, but, he had decided to move on and let Ennis get on with his life.

I love that we can all jump in with different ideas and theories about this story. And we learn so much from each other. But at the same time we cling so fiercely to our own beliefs about our boys and what they felt or would have done, etc.(as I cling to my belief that as much as he might have wanted to, Jack could no sooner let go of Ennis that cut off his own leg ). There's something so protective about it, don't you think?

Absolutely FlwrChild.  I think we put ourselves into the role and think of it in the light of, what would we do here.  But, there are times when we have to face the facts as they are.  Jack went home and told his parents about Randall.  That can only mean one thing.  He had finally given up on a long term relationship with Ennis. 

[NoReins]

Ah. but do we know for a fact that Jack mentioned Randall immediately after the confrontation with Ennis? Or could it have been some time later? Or even before? Maybe he mentioned Randall because he knew there was more chance that Randall would agree to live with him - while never really intending to carry it through? We don't know whether he'd discussed it with Randall either....

Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative (well, maybe a little ) but, like I said above, nothing is gonna shake my belief that Jack hadn't quit Ennis, and never would.

[Patriot1]

Ah. but do we know for a fact that Jack mentioned Randall immediately after the confrontation with Ennis? Or could it have been some time later? Or even before? Maybe he mentioned Randall because he knew there was more chance that Randall would agree to live with him - while never really intending to carry it through? We don't know whether he'd discussed it with Randall either....

Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative (well, maybe a little ) but, like I said above, nothing is gonna shake my belief that Jack hadn't quit Ennis, and never would.

Well, NoReins, we know that Jack and Ennis were together their last time in the spring.  We know that Jack was driving to his parents right after that last meeting with Ennis.  We know that Mr. Twist said Jack told him this spring he was bring Randall up there.  Don't matter if Randall knew about that or not. Ennis never knew either. And we know that Jack and Ennis were to get together again in November of the same year but Jack died before that could happen.  So, Jack and Ennis meet in the spring, Jack tells his father Randall is coming up there to help run the ranch in the same spring.

[LuvJackNasty]

I guess what I am trying to say is that Jack's decision to 'move on' becomes the vehicle by which, in the end, Ennis comes to full realization of their love.  Moving on did not mean an end to love.  This is obvious to anyone who has ever gone through the death of a loved one.  For Jack, it meant resignation and a certain grace (even in bitterness!) to see that their love after all went beyond physical proximity and sex.  That is obvious in the final recollection of that dozy embrace.  He had come to realize that their love would endure because it remains a dream that is pristine -- untouched by the viscitudes of thier pained and troubled lives.

This last scene with Ennis and Jack just kills me every time.  I want to scream at my screen "Just get in the damn car and finally be together!"  But I'm not so sure Jack actually made the decision to move on.  I do think he was fed up with denying who he was and with Ennis' refusal to change and be together.  A confrontation between the two of them, with all their issues, was inevitable (after all they were together for 20 years!).  But I don't think Jack "quit" Ennis.  He laments he wished he knew how to quit Ennis; seems like he's maybe tried but can't.  He says "damn you, Ennis" while he's holding Ennis.  I think he is saying "damn you, Ennis, you can't admit you love me, won't live with me, but, dammit, I can't let you go."   Ennis sends that postcard about Nov. 7th, so Jack must not have told him explicitly the relationship was over.  I think Jack is frustrated when Ennis drives away, and he goes up to LF to see his folks immediately after the confrontation.  Maybe he's just blowing off steam when he mentions the "other fella"  to his folks; kind of like "I'll show him."  Maybe Jack was just "thinking aloud."  As Jack's dad says "it never came to pass."  Now we'll never know if Randall (the other fellow) was anything more than a f*ck buddy to Jack, but to make myself feel better, I always think of it this way.  I don't know how it all went down, but, to ease the pain, I picture that if Jack had lived, he would have redlined it all the way to Pine Creek on Nov. 7th.

That is a beautiful interpretation of "Damn you Ennis". I don't think Jack would ever give up on Ennis. As it says in the SS "Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved." I know I am a hopeless romantic and perhaps that clouds my thinking, but to me there is no way Jack could have left Ennis. I hope I get this out the right way because it sounds pretty good in my head-lol They didn't see each other a lot during their 20 years- long distance relationships are hard to begin with and they have the added burden of having the deck stacked against them {society}. Either one of them could have given up at anytime for those reasons alone but their love was too strong. We know Jack had been with other men from time to time and his suggestions of them making a life together are always rebuffed so why can't he quit Ennis? Ennis was a part of his soul. Whatever the pull was that kept that love alive for those 20 years was pretty damn powerful. They were friends as well as lovers.

The look on Jack's face in the dozy embrace was just pure love in a time that held promise and was unmarred by the reality of the world. I don't think that look on Jack's face after the flashback was him giving up on the relationship necessarily, but rather him resigning himself to the fact that it was never going to be more than this. "And maybe , he thought, they'd never got much farther than that. Let be, let be." That passage and the scene from the movie always meant to me that the best was not yet to come, but already was. They'd never be that free to love each other like that after that summer- it would never again be carefree. The contrast in the embraces- the dozy embrace is just pure love and contentment. In the last scene together is them holding on out of frustrastion and comforting each other. I think that look was more of Jack having to accept that he was going to have to make do with Randall {if that was in fact his intention} in terms of having someone with him full time- he would have to settle because his dream wasn't going to come to pass. I think it was more the death of Jack's dream but not their relationship. IMO there was only one thing to keep Jack from Ennis and tragically that did come to pass.

[karen1129]

Very well put LuvJackNasty.
I don't think Jack could give up on Ennis..... even if he wanted to.
Their souls were too connected.
Their best times were on that mountain that first summer, where nothing was wrong, and they
owned the world.  It was never to be that free again.  Their struggle for freedom to
love that way, is heartbreaking.  I mourn for both of these guys.
there wasn't going to be a happy ending.  Jack ended up dead, and Ennis ended up the
walking dead.  These two characters stole my heart.

[NoReins]

The look on Jack's face in the dozy embrace was just pure love in a time that held promise and was unmarred by the reality of the world. I don't think that look on Jack's face after the flashback was him giving up on the relationship necessarily, but rather him resigning himself to the fact that it was never going to be more than this. "And maybe , he thought, they'd never got much farther than that. Let be, let be."

That's a very good point - Jack wasn't giving up, just (finally) realising that Ennis was never going to change his mind about having a life together. The dozy embrace flashback reminds him of all the hope he once had when they were free to be together all the time and makes him long to have that back again, while the look on his face as Ennis drives away is that longing, mixed with the sad acknowledgement that it "ain't gonna be that way"

These two characters stole my heart

Yeah, and they keep breaking it over and over :'(

[tpe]

Thanks everyone for the these wonderful posts.

I have been unable to respond to most of these since yesterday.  It is very difficult.  It is too difficult.  For now, I can just read, and be moved.

[Toadily]

It's to where if I just *think* of that scene of him driving away I lose it.
It's the embodiment of sadness and loss. 

[karen1129]

It's to where if I just *think* of that scene of him driving away I lose it.
It's the embodiment of sadness and loss. 

I haven't been able to get past that scene for awhile now.  Too painful.  We know what
is coming, and that is Jack and Ennis's last time together.  I can't handle it. 
I can hardly watch any trailers of this movie, because of the music.  This story is
so tragic and I still cry about these guys almost every day.  I don't want to think of
Jack dying.  It's like he a member of a family has passed away !
Does that make since?

[tpe]

It's to where if I just *think* of that scene of him driving away I lose it.
It's the embodiment of sadness and loss. 

I haven't been able to get past that scene for awhile now.  Too painful.  We know what
is coming, and that is Jack and Ennis's last time together.  I can't handle it. 
I can hardly watch any trailers of this movie, because of the music.  This story is
so tragic and I still cry about these guys almost every day.  I don't want to think of
Jack dying.  It's like he a member of a family has passed away !
Does that make since?

Yes, this makes sense.

Am I crazy, but I cannot bear to see this scene on DVD -- let alone the entire movie...

[ethan]

Watched the DVD last night....thought of something similar to this question.

The line from Jack caught my attention: "I did, once. His tone and facial expression just hit me that he was letting Ennis go.  :'(

And just like everyone here. I can't bear to see this scene. It is just heartbreaking.

[tpe]

Watched the DVD last night....thought of something similar to this question.

The line from Jack caught my attention: "I did, once. His tone and facial expression just hit me that he was letting Ennis go.  :'(

And just like everyone here. I can't bear to see this scene. It is just heartbreaking.

"Good-bye in fear, good-bye in sorrow,
     Good-bye, and all in vain,
 Never to meet again, my dear" -
    "Never to part again."

 "Good-bye today, good-bye tomorrow,
    Good-bye till earth shall wane,
 Never to meet again, my dear" -
    "Never to part again."

- Christina Rossetti

[NoReins]

The line from Jack caught my attention: "I did, once. His tone and facial expression just hit me that he was letting Ennis go.  :'(

That moment breaks my heart too, Ethan - but I'm still going to stick stubbornly to the belief that Jack wasn't letting Ennis go. I think the "I did, once" is a clear sign that Jack is resigned to never convincing Ennis that they should live together, but for all the recriminations that follow, the key for me is still "I wish I knew how to quit you" - which could just as easily be worded as "I can't quit you because I love you too much".

[tpe]

"I can't quit you because I love you too much".

 :'(

[ethan]

tpe, thanks for the poem.

NoReins - I think in Jack's mind - Ennis is the love no matter what happens. Jack would never know how to quit Ennis but at the same time he could never have him either. 

[NoReins]

tpe, thanks for the poem.

NoReins - I think in Jack's mind - Ennis is the love no matter what happens. Jack would never know how to quit Ennis but at the same time he could never have him either. 

But he'd still have been there in November, I'm sure of it.

[ethan]

Yeah November....  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(  it didn't happen

[danac]

I'm soooo in the Jack would never quit Ennis camp...I agree completely with stacp that "Damn you, Ennis" meant he could never walk away from this hurt, sweet soul.
And, yes, we've all let off steam saying we'll never talk to this person again, or have dinner with that person, etc...but it's just that usually. Jack tells his dad about Randall but he never follows through with it...and when he's complaining about August and always being in the cold, he says " we oughta go to Mexico."...so Randall wasn't in the plan at that moment.
When Ennis drives away that last time, Jack knows that this is his life...always waiting for those precious moments with Ennis.

[NoReins]

When Ennis drives away that last time, Jack knows that this is his life...always waiting for those precious moments with Ennis.

You're killing me :'( :'(

[Valandil Eluch]

I'm soooo in the Jack would never quit Ennis camp...I agree completely with stacp that "Damn you, Ennis" meant he could never walk away from this hurt, sweet soul.
And, yes, we've all let off steam saying we'll never talk to this person again, or have dinner with that person, etc...but it's just that usually. Jack tells his dad about Randall but he never follows through with it...and when he's complaining about August and always being in the cold, he says " we oughta go to Mexico."...so Randall wasn't in the plan at that moment.
When Ennis drives away that last time, Jack knows that this is his life...always waiting for those precious moments with Ennis.

Oh no!!!! i'm crying again!!! i have to bury my head under my coats hood  :'( :'( :'( :'(

[CrimsonSky]

Another beautiful, but heartbreaking, thread :'(

I can't think of much to add that hasn't already been said, except that no way would Jack ever give up on Ennis,it's all there in those 8 words: "I wish I knew how to quit you" :'( 

[FlwrChild]

Another beautiful, but heartbreaking, thread :'(

I can't think of much to add that hasn't already been said, except that no way would Jack ever give up on Ennis,it's all there in those 8 words: "I wish I knew how to quit you" :'( 

Yep you're all absolutely right!

[Patriot1]

Another beautiful, but heartbreaking, thread :'(

I can't think of much to add that hasn't already been said, except that no way would Jack ever give up on Ennis,it's all there in those 8 words: "I wish I knew how to quit you" :'( 

And then Ennis had his breakdown.  "I can't stand this any more Jack."

[edgar]

When Ennis drives away that last time, Jack knows that this is his life...always waiting for those precious moments with Ennis.

 :'( :'( :'( :'(
Those blue eyes--eyes which express perfect contentment and longing in the flashback to the dozy embrace--those same blue eyes turn to ice as Jack watches Ennis drive away, for what ends up being the last time.

But he still has to watch. He cant' take his eyes off the disappearing figure.