Author Topic: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler  (Read 192207 times)

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #90 on: Feb 07, 2006, 05:04 PM »
Camom - I agree with you that's what makes the story powerful is the open ended questions that prompt us to think, explore, destruct, construct, create, define, etc. I hope this story becomes mandatory reading in high schools across America.

Upper level high school, anyway.  I can tell you that my 14 year old son is not ready for it yet, and he's a very bright, mature kid.  Heck, I'm 47 and I can hardly deal with it.

camom

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #91 on: Feb 07, 2006, 05:14 PM »
When we're talking about whether Ennis' fears are rational or irrational, we also have to remember that we're only shown a tiny snippet of his childhood in the film.  We see the horrific murder scene, but what we don't see is the years and years of homophobic talk from adults--his father and others in the town.  Remember Ennis says the two old ranchers were the joke of the town, plus he says for all he knows his dad committed the murder.  Obviously his dad has made it clear that he is homophobic.  A childhood filled with murderous and/or deprecating comments about homosexuality--I don't think Ennis' fear is irrational at all, not in his culture. 

camom

Offline Cowboy Cody

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 7886
  • Gender: Male
  • Here I IS!
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #92 on: Feb 07, 2006, 05:27 PM »
Camom, yeah, I agree. As a teacher, I think this is a Sr. level book. Takes some maturity to handle the nuances and in depth questioning it generates. You are right about Ennis, you know his background has to be years of male macho attitudes of what a male should be, not what's good for his soul. In Ennis'world you know those homophobic attitudes over the years become ingrained, and hard to shake.
 
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #93 on: Feb 07, 2006, 06:11 PM »
Camom, yeah, I agree. As a teacher, I think this is a Sr. level book. Takes some maturity to handle the nuances and in depth questioning it generates. You are right about Ennis, you know his background has to be years of male macho attitudes of what a male should be, not what's good for his soul. In Ennis'world you know those homophobic attitudes over the years become ingrained, and hard to shake.
 

I think it would be an excellent section in an honors English class, or a sociology class.  I might use it myself in a few years (he's homeschooling now--8th grade--and wants to continue for high school).   "From Beowulf to Brokeback!"   ;D

Ennis is such a simple man, and so complex at the same time.  You do have to wonder if he would've been able to let go of his upbringing if BBM had happened 30 years later.  I'm not so sure.

camom

Offline chameau

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 28148
  • Gender: Male
  • Miss ya little darlin'
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #94 on: Feb 07, 2006, 06:19 PM »
Camom, yeah, I agree. As a teacher, I think this is a Sr. level book. Takes some maturity to handle the nuances and in depth questioning it generates. You are right about Ennis, you know his background has to be years of male macho attitudes of what a male should be, not what's good for his soul. In Ennis'world you know those homophobic attitudes over the years become ingrained, and hard to shake.
 

I think it would be an excellent section in an honors English class, or a sociology class.  I might use it myself in a few years (he's homeschooling now--8th grade--and wants to continue for high school).   "From Beowulf to Brokeback!"   ;D

Ennis is such a simple man, and so complex at the same time.  You do have to wonder if he would've been able to let go of his upbringing if BBM had happened 30 years later.  I'm not so sure.

camom

30 years later, still in Wyoming, I'm ain't sure. Even in my "supposed to be gay friendly country", there's a lot of homophobia.  We have a new government here since yesterday.  They're already questioning the "same sex wedding" law.  Never take anything for granted.

I'll stop here, I would be too much off topic.

Love my friends!

Pierre
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline francis.shim

  • aka Jack Nasty who loves you!!!
  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
  • Gender: Male
  • Brokeback Mountain, I swear...
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #95 on: Feb 07, 2006, 09:10 PM »
Camom, yeah, I agree. As a teacher, I think this is a Sr. level book. Takes some maturity to handle the nuances and in depth questioning it generates. You are right about Ennis, you know his background has to be years of male macho attitudes of what a male should be, not what's good for his soul. In Ennis'world you know those homophobic attitudes over the years become ingrained, and hard to shake.
 

I think it would be an excellent section in an honors English class, or a sociology class.  I might use it myself in a few years (he's homeschooling now--8th grade--and wants to continue for high school).   "From Beowulf to Brokeback!"   ;D

Ennis is such a simple man, and so complex at the same time.  You do have to wonder if he would've been able to let go of his upbringing if BBM had happened 30 years later.  I'm not so sure.

camom

I agree... there are many levels/layers to the short story and/or movie.  At the risk of sounding too clinical, I think that an important consideration as to when to introduce the material is when puberty sets in.  After all, that is a time when there *will* be questions that sometimes even the most liberally raised children may find difficult to bring up with parents or adults.  Consider that in the story itself it shows Ennis and Jack as high school dropouts... what would have happened if they were given the benefit of some practical and non-discriminating sex education (I know in the 60s that was a taboo subject, esp in Wyoming).  Hindsight is always 20/20 and even now we still have difficulty with the subject of sex, in all its varied forms... is this what we want our children to keep passing on?

Peace,
Frank (aka Jack Nasty)

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #96 on: Feb 08, 2006, 01:02 AM »
Camom, yeah, I agree. As a teacher, I think this is a Sr. level book. Takes some maturity to handle the nuances and in depth questioning it generates. You are right about Ennis, you know his background has to be years of male macho attitudes of what a male should be, not what's good for his soul. In Ennis'world you know those homophobic attitudes over the years become ingrained, and hard to shake.
 

I think it would be an excellent section in an honors English class, or a sociology class.  I might use it myself in a few years (he's homeschooling now--8th grade--and wants to continue for high school).   "From Beowulf to Brokeback!"   ;D

Ennis is such a simple man, and so complex at the same time.  You do have to wonder if he would've been able to let go of his upbringing if BBM had happened 30 years later.  I'm not so sure.

camom

I agree... there are many levels/layers to the short story and/or movie.  At the risk of sounding too clinical, I think that an important consideration as to when to introduce the material is when puberty sets in.  After all, that is a time when there *will* be questions that sometimes even the most liberally raised children may find difficult to bring up with parents or adults.  Consider that in the story itself it shows Ennis and Jack as high school dropouts... what would have happened if they were given the benefit of some practical and non-discriminating sex education (I know in the 60s that was a taboo subject, esp in Wyoming).  Hindsight is always 20/20 and even now we still have difficulty with the subject of sex, in all its varied forms... is this what we want our children to keep passing on?

Peace,
Frank (aka Jack Nasty)


I agree that the general subject should be brought up in the teenage years, but I also agree with Cody that a story like BBM takes a certain amount of mental maturity that for most kids doesn't exist in early puberty.  However, the issue of homophobia can be discussed at an earlier age, and I've been thinking it's something I need to do with my kids.  My older son has asked me why we drive 20 mins. away to go to church when there's a church 2 mins. away, and I've explained that the closer church is too conservative--but what I need to do is tell him specifically that we will not attend any church that does not openly welcome all people, gay or straight, period.  I'm not sure if he realizes that part of it, and I think it's important he understands that sometimes we just have to take a stand for what we believe is right or wrong. 

And this post had nothing to do with Jack!   :-\

camom

Offline cybernaut

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
  • Gender: Male
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #97 on: Feb 08, 2006, 02:30 AM »
Camom, yeah, I agree. As a teacher, I think this is a Sr. level book. Takes some maturity to handle the nuances and in depth questioning it generates. You are right about Ennis, you know his background has to be years of male macho attitudes of what a male should be, not what's good for his soul. In Ennis'world you know those homophobic attitudes over the years become ingrained, and hard to shake.

I don't think this book will even make it to any level simply because of its content. We even had trouble with biology textbook with the inclusion of intelligent design, this book will make Pat Robertson and his 700 club all rattled up.
I'm saying a prayer of thanks... that you didn't bring your harmonica!

Offline merry

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 44
  • Gender: Female
  • hey guys!
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #98 on: Feb 08, 2006, 03:06 AM »
The more I read it, the more I feel it doesn't matter. He may well have been murdered, but just as easily could have died from an accident.  It isn't really relvant to the story.
What is relvant is the fact that with Jack being gone---we are left with veiwing Ennis' complete sense of loss, and total devestation by it.   It is really is about the Loss and the dealing with it that makes the strength of the depth of Ennis' feelings/reactions. Just my thoughts about it.

Yeah... You must be right. Devastation is the right word!

Merry
merry-el-primo

Offline francis.shim

  • aka Jack Nasty who loves you!!!
  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
  • Gender: Male
  • Brokeback Mountain, I swear...
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #99 on: Feb 08, 2006, 09:13 AM »
[And this post had nothing to do with Jack!   :-\

camom

Hmmm... well, considering that from a broad view, homophobia did kill Jack... perhaps, it is relevant that we talk about when BBM should be introduced in the schools... after all I don't want to see another Jack happen again.  My heart cannot take too much of that.

Peace,
Frank (aka Jack Nasty)

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #100 on: Feb 08, 2006, 09:43 AM »
Camom, yeah, I agree. As a teacher, I think this is a Sr. level book. Takes some maturity to handle the nuances and in depth questioning it generates. You are right about Ennis, you know his background has to be years of male macho attitudes of what a male should be, not what's good for his soul. In Ennis'world you know those homophobic attitudes over the years become ingrained, and hard to shake.

I don't think this book will even make it to any level simply because of its content. We even had trouble with biology textbook with the inclusion of intelligent design, this book will make Pat Robertson and his 700 club all rattled up.

You're probably right there.  Always a fight over something.  Parents can always do what they think is right outside of school--and I homeschool, so no one can tell me what I can and can't teach (one reason I do it), lol. 

camom

Offline Cowboy Cody

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 7886
  • Gender: Male
  • Here I IS!
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #101 on: Feb 08, 2006, 10:11 AM »
camom - you are right of course. You get to teach your child what you want, props for taking that on. I can only imagine the uproar if the book were to be read. Still, I think they should learn about society. Btw..most of my kids are much more tolerant than the adults I've met. It's the adults (yuppies) who seem to think their way is the only way.
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #102 on: Feb 08, 2006, 10:19 AM »
camom - you are right of course. You get to teach your child what you want, props for taking that on. I can only imagine the uproar if the book were to be read. Still, I think they should learn about society. Btw..most of my kids are much more tolerant than the adults I've met. It's the adults (yuppies) who seem to think their way is the only way.

Don't get me stuck on that subject!

camom

Offline cybernaut

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
  • Gender: Male
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #103 on: Feb 08, 2006, 10:25 AM »
Huh... I thought the pink money is the way of the future too?? ???
I'm saying a prayer of thanks... that you didn't bring your harmonica!

Offline lacy8753

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #104 on: Feb 09, 2006, 02:14 PM »
In the short story, there's a line near the end when Ennis is a Jack's house and Jack's dad is telling him that in recent times, he's talked about bring a new guy up to tend to the ranch and its basically "and now Ennis knew that it was the tire iron that had done him in[/u]"
It could be either though, and it doesn't really matter in the end... I think Ennis chose to reflect more on Jack's life with him than his death


This makes me nuts. what about Jack's fathers statement about the rancher convinces Ennis that it was the tire iron?

Offline lacy8753

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #105 on: Feb 10, 2006, 12:01 PM »
  Let me ask this again:
In the short story, there's a line near the end when Ennis is a Jack's house and Jack's dad is telling him thatJack talked about bringing a new guy up to tend  the ranch and its
      "and now Ennis knew that it was the tire iron that had done him in.


This makes me nuts. what is it about Jack's fathers statement about the rancher that convinces Ennis that it was the tire iron?

Offline Titus

  • Lureen
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
  • Gender: Male
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #106 on: Feb 10, 2006, 01:00 PM »
Lacy Love, Ennis thought from the first that Jack had been beaten to death with a tire iron, just like the old man he saw as a child.  Deep, deep impression that made.  He knew too that Lureen wasn't totally straight with him, she seemed to be holding something back.  If you were living in homophobic Texas or Wyoming or wherever back in the mid-Eighties, like Ennis, you could easily connect the dots in your own mind.  A married man having an affair with a neighbour, who is also married, and he has made it known he wants to divorce his wife and take new man to meet Mama and Daddy, you bet it ain't gonna be pretty.  Ennis just assumed that Lurren, who he thought was lying, must have known something about Jack's plans.

Whether Ennis was right or not we will never know.  Annie Proulx doesn't even know.  But that's what his gut reaction is.  I mean the rim blowing off the truck may have happened once or twice, but what we have here is a man who sleeps with other men in a very violent, macho culture who put it about all during his rodeo days (witness the rodeo clown telling his mates the "faggot" has made a move on him!  Childress is small, folks know everybody else.  Two men getting it on, what's the chances no one suspected or saw something.  Ennis isn't stupid.  Hope that helps!  Makes me sad that their story had to end that way, but there it is.  Titus.
"Holding on to this moment of love and forgiveness mediated by this beautiful, loving boy.  Whose heart and soul had passed through the shadows and remained unsullied, undefeated."  The Redemption of Ennis Del Mar

Offline karind1

  • Jack
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Gender: Female
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #107 on: Feb 10, 2006, 03:00 PM »
Did you saw it was '' young '' Jack without a PORNSTACHE?(at the end of the movie he does have pornstache) I just realised that.. Maybe he is not dead after all(divorcing? ahh Lureen and Jack is married by the way?) BBM2? ahahh keep dreaming Krisp..

As much as I love BBM, no BBM2 please.  :) It has all the possibilities ...since the audience did not really witness the crime scene if there has been one.

Funny enough, the thought that Jack didn't die came to my mind as well. One day...Jack might appear in front of Ennis's trailer and say to Ennis -- Ennis f***ing del Mar and then they live happily after. Just my wish.  ;D
[/quot]  i thoough of that too.
LISTEN TO THIS INTERVIEW

here is whole readio interview done recently with author annie proulx/talks about how the ending had to end.
http://www.kcrw.com/cgi-bin/db/kcrw.pl?show_code=bw&air_date=1/19/06&tmplt_type=show     this is a great interview-the whole thing
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2006, 03:05 PM by karind1 »

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #108 on: Feb 10, 2006, 03:20 PM »
Lacy Love, Ennis thought from the first that Jack had been beaten to death with a tire iron, just like the old man he saw as a child.  Deep, deep impression that made.  He knew too that Lureen wasn't totally straight with him, she seemed to be holding something back.  If you were living in homophobic Texas or Wyoming or wherever back in the mid-Eighties, like Ennis, you could easily connect the dots in your own mind.  A married man having an affair with a neighbour, who is also married, and he has made it known he wants to divorce his wife and take new man to meet Mama and Daddy, you bet it ain't gonna be pretty.  Ennis just assumed that Lurren, who he thought was lying, must have known something about Jack's plans.

Whether Ennis was right or not we will never know.  Annie Proulx doesn't even know.  But that's what his gut reaction is.  I mean the rim blowing off the truck may have happened once or twice, but what we have here is a man who sleeps with other men in a very violent, macho culture who put it about all during his rodeo days (witness the rodeo clown telling his mates the "faggot" has made a move on him!  Childress is small, folks know everybody else.  Two men getting it on, what's the chances no one suspected or saw something.  Ennis isn't stupid.  Hope that helps!  Makes me sad that their story had to end that way, but there it is.  Titus.

For me, the ending is horrible either way--murder, or dying alone on a rural road because there was no one to help him.  You see in the story that it's a terrible blow to Ennis, no matter how he pictures it ("He wanted to curse her for letting Jack die on the dirt road.").  In context, murder is worse, of course, but the pictures in my mind of either scenario are equally upsetting.  I'm sure the worst part for Ennis was that he wasn't there to help. 

camom

Offline gjz24

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #109 on: Feb 10, 2006, 07:47 PM »
Oh, my gosh, this call makes me crazy. My best female friend just call me that she believe Jack was suicided.  She said if she was in Jack's shoes, she will end her life to finish the endless pain and despair. And she asked me if you know there is one you love him so deadly and you tried everything you can do and Finlay realize you will never get him and you will never forget him...What would you do???I first replied that I will keep trying and waitting and suddenly I was speechless and did not know how to answer this question. She also said that Jack's suicide can explain why he wanted scatter his ashes in BBM; why his facial expression was so hopeless and despairing when he saw Ennis left in their last meet; why Lureen was in tear when she heard Jack and Ennis were once in the BBM; Why jack dreamed to have a good life with another guy whose personality somewhat likes Ennis; why he put their cloth together in his childhood closet. And she also mentioned that Ennis possibly knew that Jack was suicided because of him, so in the end he said to the cloth " Jack, I swear..."

Her call made me mad and lost, there is the possibility. NO. NO. NO.
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2006, 09:16 PM by gjz24 »

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #110 on: Feb 11, 2006, 12:35 AM »
Oh, my gosh, this call makes me crazy. My best female friend just call me that she believe Jack was suicided.  She said if she was in Jack's shoes, she will end her life to finish the endless pain and despair. And she asked me if you know there is one you love him so deadly and you tried everything you can do and Finlay realize you will never get him and you will never forget him...What would you do???I first replied that I will keep trying and waitting and suddenly I was speechless and did not know how to answer this question. She also said that Jack's suicide can explain why he wanted scatter his ashes in BBM; why his facial expression was so hopeless and despairing when he saw Ennis left in their last meet; why Lureen was in tear when she heard Jack and Ennis were once in the BBM; Why jack dreamed to have a good life with another guy whose personality somewhat likes Ennis; why he put their cloth together in his childhood closet. And she also mentioned that Ennis possibly knew that Jack was suicided because of him, so in the end he said to the cloth " Jack, I swear..."

Her call made me mad and lost, there is the possibility. NO. NO. NO.

Jack was too much of an optimist to commit suicide.  I really don't think he would have done that.

camom

Offline cybernaut

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
  • Gender: Male
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #111 on: Feb 11, 2006, 06:12 AM »
I don't think that Jack is that depressed.
I'm saying a prayer of thanks... that you didn't bring your harmonica!

romeshvr

  • Guest
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #112 on: Feb 11, 2006, 10:30 AM »
well...maybe...but lureen did say he like to get drunk, in the last meeting...from the short story...it appears jack was restless and jumpy...who knows...only the author can answer these questions...

Offline rane99

  • Lureen
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Gender: Male
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #113 on: Feb 11, 2006, 04:24 PM »
I think I know the answer of Jack's death. That whole story about blowing up the tire on his truck was a lie. In the last scene when Ennis is telling Jack it won't be until November til he can get away.... well, the truck that Jack has is a Dually.  It has two extra tires on the back. if he blew one on the back  he could keep on driving til he got to a garage, no?  If he blew one of the front, he is smart enough to use a spare or one of the four in the back.  No need to blow up any tire.  That bitch lied!
Somebody please tell me I am wrong. I don't want to believe like he was a victim of a horrible death.   :( :( :(
So's long as the bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #114 on: Feb 11, 2006, 05:20 PM »
I don't know.  She sure acted like she was lying, but that story she told...kinda complicated to be a lie.  How would she even know that was possible, and why would she make it so complex?  It's not like she was ever going to meet Ennis, or that he'd be able to find out anything about Jack's death other than what she told him.  Why not just say he crashed his truck?  Why be so carefully detailed about it?  The whole thing is just odd.

camom

Offline gjz24

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #115 on: Feb 11, 2006, 05:31 PM »
She felt shamed of Jack'd death. She created a complicated story to convince herself and others that Jack's death was normal.

romeshvr

  • Guest
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #116 on: Feb 11, 2006, 10:12 PM »
Interesting thing is we cannot get what we see in the movie from the short story.  At the end of the phone conversation the author writes and remember it is not Ennis thinking 'No doubt about it, she was polite but the little voice was as cold as snow'.  IMO the scene is more suggestive than the short story.  I guess movie being different medium than a short story it was necessary to interpret this line differently.  The odd thing is we don't know when exactly the ACCIDENT happend.  We only know it was months after the last confrontational meeting with Ennis.  Okay Ennis's card came back but when did it come back?  We assume it was before the November meeting but we are not told that and we can only assume because of the message on it.  However, the card could have come back next Spring or even later.  The expected November meeting could have never happend since Jack didn't respond and Ennis would have thought Jack was mad or something and wouldn't have done anything.  The reason I say this because I found it interesting that for a grieving widow (not to offend anyone) she was dressed to the 9s, makeup, hair, jewelery, cloths, okay the nail polish needed some work but still.  Her appearance and her manner would make sense if considerable time has passed between the ACCIDENT and the call.  If not Lureen didn't look the part of a woman who lost the love of her life.  Unless of course Jack divorced Lureen before he met with the ACCIDENT... Okay I will stop now...


Offline BBBOY

  • Brokeback Junkie
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 16628
  • Gender: Male
  • Ya know I ain't straight Me neither
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #117 on: Feb 11, 2006, 10:42 PM »
If you read the story it is apparent that Ennis believes that Jack was murdered. It was not done by Laureen's dad because he was dead by then. It's a moot question because all that matters is that Ennis thinks he was killed.

"The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron. And he would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense  of joy and release, the pilllow sometimes wet, somteimes the sheets.

    There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and it you can't fix it you've got to stand it."

Ennis is our  Hamlet, Otello, Romeo and so many tragic heros of literature. Caught in his own web. I weep for him, I weep for me, I weep for us all. 
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken darken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon.

Offline camom

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #118 on: Feb 12, 2006, 01:24 AM »
It's a moot question because all that matters is that Ennis thinks he was killed.

Absolutely, you're right.  What is most shattering is that Ennis believed it.  Thanks for cutting right to the heart of the matter.

camom

Offline cybernaut

  • Alma
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
  • Gender: Male
Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #119 on: Feb 12, 2006, 03:16 AM »
I don't know.  She sure acted like she was lying, but that story she told...kinda complicated to be a lie.  How would she even know that was possible, and why would she make it so complex?  It's not like she was ever going to meet Ennis, or that he'd be able to find out anything about Jack's death other than what she told him.  Why not just say he crashed his truck?  Why be so carefully detailed about it?  The whole thing is just odd.

When people bullshit, especially in business, they make it complicated for the person to be worn down to "believe" the lies. Have you seen late-nights infomercials?
 
My POV is that Lureen was clearly lying. The whole dialogue was cold and scary, devoid of any human emotion as if Jack died as a matter of fact on the newspaper than Jack my husband has died. It even gave me the goosebumps... :(
I'm saying a prayer of thanks... that you didn't bring your harmonica!