Author Topic: "I might be back" - Ennis & Jack parting (Read 41086 times)

tpe · « **Reply #60 on:** Jul 06, 2006, 06:53 AM »

I believe that Ennis was conflicted at this point. He knew he was in love with Jack and he wanted so desperately for this to go away. IN a sense, he tried to put on a brave face and put an end to the affair. It nearly killed him, and he hated himself for both allowing himself to fall in love and instigating what he though was its demise.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #61 on:** Jul 06, 2006, 07:09 AM »

I agree

welshwitch · « **Reply #62 on:** Jul 06, 2006, 02:04 PM »

If he thought about it, he might hear Jack saying "I'might be back" or realise later the implcations of that, and know that there could have been a continuation, but by then he'd be too deep in work/wife/baby due, etc.

I think the ponding on the wall is just an expression of extreme frustration and the inability to understand, far less deal with, what he's feeling at that point.

ms.bluesky · « **Reply #63 on:** Jul 15, 2006, 04:12 PM »

well its good that jack does come back

greenfrog · « **Reply #64 on:** Nov 26, 2006, 10:39 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Jul 06, 2006, 06:53 AM

I believe that Ennis was conflicted at this point. He knew he was in love with Jack and he wanted so desperately for this to go away. IN a sense, he tried to put on a brave face and put an end to the affair. It nearly killed him, and he hated himself for both allowing himself to fall in love and instigating what he though was its demise.

Poor Ennis . . . He's such a beautiful and yet tortured soul :\'( :\'( :\'(

Audrey twist · « **Reply #65 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 04:41 PM »

EnniS is veryyyyyyyyyy sadddddddddd and seems like sick when jack is going away from him...for the first time!

tpe · « **Reply #66 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 06:37 PM »

From conflict and struggle arises very beautiful things.

dirtbiker · « **Reply #67 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 06:48 PM »

I think Jack was afraid of direct rejection with his "I might be back" comment to Ennis. He avoided broaching the subject of being together for fear of this rejection or putting Ennis on the spot.

tpe · « **Reply #68 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 06:51 PM »

Quote from: dirtbiker on Nov 27, 2006, 06:48 PM

I think Jack was afraid of direct rejection with his "I might be back" comment to Ennis. He avoided broaching the subject of being together for fear of this rejection or putting Ennis on the spot.

So true. He was constantly giving hints, letting out feelers. I really felt for him as the scene progressed. Jack was visibly crushed. Ennis must have been dying inside...

Miscommunication. They both knew, and did not.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #69 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 06:04 AM »

This is so true about Jack DB. He was so afraid of the rejection. Did you notice that towards the end when they just stood staring at each other? I think Jack held out hope until Ennis devastated him with the finality of that "see you around then" and walked off. Only then did Jack let him go and get in his truck and drive off too. I felt so sad for both of them.Especially Jack.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #70 on:** Dec 06, 2006, 04:38 PM »

This scene stuck with me for awhile because they both knew at the time that Ennis was making a mistake by leaving to marry Alma. Jack KNEW then that he'd be back. It was an opportunity to see Ennis again and reconnect with him. And he did come back and asked about him true to his word. Unfortunately he only got Agurre's crap but no Ennis.

tpe · « **Reply #71 on:** Dec 06, 2006, 05:22 PM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Dec 06, 2006, 04:38 PM

This scene stuck with me for awhile because they both knew at the time that Ennis was making a mistake by leaving to marry Alma. Jack KNEW then that he'd be back. It was an opportunity to see Ennis again and reconnect with him. And he did come back and asked about him true to his word. Unfortunately he only got Agurre's crap but no Ennis.

The next summer showed how adamant Jack was in meeting up again with Ennis. Ennis told him after coming down from BBM in 63 that he would not be coming back. And yet, he did not give up hope that Ennis would contrive to see him again. He must have been crushed when he didn't get to see Ennis the next summer. No wonder he decided to move on to Texas.

I think part of the reason why he left Wyoming was to forget Ennis. It took 4 years, a marriage, and a kid for him to realize that this was impossible.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #72 on:** Dec 10, 2006, 05:13 AM »

And what a waste of precious time they could've spent together! Little did jack know that Ennis was still wanting him too as he suffered through Aguirre's humiliation. As evidence of this? THE REUNION SCENE! Ennis probably would have been crazy to see him again that next summer. If only Jack had found Ennis then, maybe he would have never even met Lureen. Would have been nice if Ennis had the courage to come to Texas, see him "ride" then have it be Ennis picking up Jack's hat and returning it to him. What a nice suprise this would have been for Jack!!.....But I'm only dreamin. Too bad.

tpe · « **Reply #73 on:** Dec 13, 2006, 11:59 AM »

Yes, I cannot help wondering that if Ennis had been more open about the possibility of meeting again, then things would have been different. It had been mentioned earlier that this was the deciding moment for both of them. That delay proved their inevitable undoing. Things could not be changed easily after this, and I cannot escape the thought that both of them must have contemplated the missed opportunity many a time. Could things ended up differently had Jack inisisted that Ennis ride with him? It is hard not to think of the possibilities. Their love may have overthrown all obstacles.

FlwrChild · « **Reply #74 on:** Dec 13, 2006, 03:27 PM »

Perhaps. But they were very young and facing some pretty daunting obstacles. The tragic irony may be that they needed those four years to recognize and appreciate what they had, while at the same time (as you pointed out tpe) those four years were their undoing.
$:-\\$

NoReins · « **Reply #75 on:** Dec 14, 2006, 04:25 AM »

Quote from: FlwrChild on Dec 13, 2006, 03:27 PM

Perhaps. But they were very young and facing some pretty daunting obstacles. The tragic irony may be that they needed those four years to recognize and appreciate what they had, while at the same time (as you pointed out tpe) those four years were their undoing.
$:-\\$

I think that's the crux of it. After that first summer they both knew they'd found something special but it wasn't until they'd been apart and had experienced other relationships that they really realised how special it was. Without those four years apart, the first little argument between them may well have been enough to destroy their relationship...it was only through knowing that nothing else was this good that they were able to handle the pain of only being together a few weeks a year.

jackster · « **Reply #76 on:** Dec 14, 2006, 08:08 AM »

Right on FlwrChild and NoReins.
This scene (the parting) is really the center piece of the film, starting with “says, bring ‘em down”, Ennis’s deep frustration at the summer being cut short and Jack's unintentional but cool reaction to this, “lend you some cash”, Ennis’s lonesome pouting, and the ensuing play/fight where Ennis is clearly pissed-off that Jack isn’t more upset about the parting. Of course 20 yrs later we learn that Jack secretly was devastated enough at this point to steal Ennis’s shirt, he just was too inexperienced to know how to show it (OT - Jack couldn’t do a lot of things, shoot, ride, or use a can opener!). By the time they get to Jack's truck I think these two 19 y.o. boys are emotionally in way over their heads and can’t figure out what else to do. They've been told their whole life that they can’t do the one thing they want to do most at that moment. They both look like deer in the headlights, surprised, stunned, and at a complete loss for action. Only when they are shortly by themselves do they allow their emotional turmoil to express itself. The thoroughness of Heath and Jake and the pure reality in the way they performed this scene in concert is absolutely remarkable.

jackster

tpe · « **Reply #77 on:** Dec 14, 2006, 11:58 AM »

I also echo what FlwrChild and NoReins had said. They NEEDED those 4 years to fully realize what they had. And it is indeed ironic that the 4-year period that invariably pulled them together was also the same thing that inevitably pulled them apart. The 4-year separation was a double-edged sword.

welshwitch · « **Reply #78 on:** Dec 14, 2006, 01:42 PM »

It's so typical of Jack that he's the one to offer possibilities - just as he does all the way through. He's always looking ahead, thinking things may change, see the world as offering alternatives, whereas Ennis sees life as lacking options, set irrevocably on a specific course, eg he's said he's going to marry Alma so it never crosses his mind not to, or even to put it off. Ennis never sees himself as in control of his own destiny, whereas Jack wants to go out and force the world into being what he wants it to be.

And eventually he ends up just as he might have expected; it's Jack who's destroyed by forces bigger than he can control, because just like love hatred is also a force of nature.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #79 on:** Dec 19, 2006, 05:23 AM »

Though I love the character of Ennis, this scene never fails to bring a fair amount of anger to the surface in me. Marrying Alma after the experience of Brokeback with Jack was unfair to everyone involveld. I understand that he felt he had to do what he had to do but my God what was he thinking after such a life changing experience? Here was Jack, practically pleading with him to go with what he knew was Ennis's true feelings and what does he do? walks away from the only real happiness he has ever known. He could have let Alma down easy and saved her, Jack, and himself from years of pain and hurt. After all , he had'nt married her YET. He was under to obligation to run off and get married knowing what he knew at the time. Alot of things may have been different if he had'nt ran off and made this foolish mistake, but I guess thats just Ennis....... Earth to Ennis, wake up, your reality is staring you right in the face.....and it has very sad eyes. Pllleeeaaassseee don't get me started!. Damn.

My heart broke for Jack.

tpe · « **Reply #80 on:** Dec 19, 2006, 08:30 AM »

It is so tragic that Ennis could not be coaxed into acknowledging his desire to be with Jack. I was also quite angry at him in this scene until I saw the consequences of this denial in the alley. He was so hopelessly conflicted. Perhaps he wanted it more than Jack at that moment.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #81 on:** Dec 19, 2006, 11:00 AM »

Yes, he was conflicted, but one thing was for sure. He knew that his feelings for Alma paled in comparison with thos he had for Jack. Shoul'nt have married her.....but he did/

tpe · « **Reply #82 on:** Dec 19, 2006, 11:24 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Dec 19, 2006, 11:00 AM

Yes, he was conflicted, but one thing was for sure. He knew that his feelings for Alma paled in comparison with thos he had for Jack. Shoul'nt have married her.....but he did/

Ennis was too enamored by duty, or what he thought was his duty...

lamusica · « **Reply #83 on:** Dec 19, 2006, 12:21 PM »

I watched the movie again last night, sort of as an anniversary remembrance, and was struck once again by Jack's words. Just one or two additional words may have changed everything. As it was, he cut Ennis loose in that scene and Ennis was too caught up in his "responsibility" to marry Alma, that he agreed. They both knew this would be over. The chances of them running into one another were very slim. Still, Ennis wouldn't give Jack any hope of another summer on BBM. (In return, of course, he made himself sick, literally, after a few minutes thought that Jack was really out of his life for good -- next scene.)
Everytime I see this scene, I want to jump in their conversation and say,"Shut up. Make a date and set a place to get together soon. Don't let each other go." But then there wouldn't have been a story or a movie.

tpe · « **Reply #84 on:** Dec 19, 2006, 02:25 PM »

Jack probably didn't even begin to guess how much Ennis wanted things to continue at that point.

Up on the mountain, right before bringing the sheep down, Jack probably guessed that the Ennis was in turmoil. But Ennis didn't even want to ackknowledge anything, and reacted with violence. Little did Jack know... Little did he know...

The depth of Ennis's denial is only matched by his painful vulnerability. He was like a trapped animal.

lamusica · « **Reply #85 on:** Dec 19, 2006, 06:33 PM »

I think the turmoil Ennis was going through up on the mountain wasn't just because he and Jack would be separated. I think it meant a lot more than just Jack and their physical relationship. I think this was the first time Ennis felt he was "at home". In the mountains, alone with Jack, he was comfortable. He could cut loose, smile, laugh, talk more than he ever did before. He was grieving the loss of the whole package -- home. I think that's why he agreed to go with Jack to the mountains when they had their trysts. There he did not feel no watched, so vulnerable.
When he and Jack had their final words, he was lost at how to keep this feeling alive. He had such minimal social skills. He actually could not express his feelings -- even to Jack. (Note all the other times in the movie when you wanted so badly to hear Ennis respond in some way to Jack, but he just can't.)

greenfrog · « **Reply #86 on:** Dec 19, 2006, 11:54 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Dec 19, 2006, 08:30 AM

It is so tragic that Ennis could not be coaxed into acknowledging his desire to be with Jack. I was also quite angry at him in this scene until I saw the consequences of this denial in the alley. He was so hopelessly conflicted. Perhaps he wanted it more than Jack at that moment.

I look at this scene and just really, really wish that Jack had turned the truck around and picked Ennis up.

Maybe things would have ended up differently . . . Perhaps :\'( :\'( :\'(

welshwitch · « **Reply #87 on:** Dec 20, 2006, 08:57 AM »

When they leave the mountain for the first time, the way Ennis reacts is somewhat analagous to the way one feels at the end of a holiday. For him the mountain has been a place away from real life, and the few months there a time out of time - it's the only part of his life that has ever presented him with any possibility of a different, richer life, but he's too afraid of the prospect to grasp it. The trouble is that he senses from that moment that he's wrong but he can;t bring himself to act any differently, once away from the mountain, from the way he's always done. That remains a problem because all their meetings, other than the one in Riverton, and that leads to it, are spent on the mountain in what becaomes an alternative life, or maybe an alternative universe, for a short period at brief intervals - and that's all Ennis expects or hopes to get.

tpe · « **Reply #88 on:** Dec 20, 2006, 09:37 AM »

Quote from: greenfrog on Dec 19, 2006, 11:54 PM

Quote from: tpe on Dec 19, 2006, 08:30 AM
It is so tragic that Ennis could not be coaxed into acknowledging his desire to be with Jack. I was also quite angry at him in this scene until I saw the consequences of this denial in the alley. He was so hopelessly conflicted. Perhaps he wanted it more than Jack at that moment.

I look at this scene and just really, really wish that Jack had turned the truck around and picked Ennis up.

Maybe things would have ended up differently . . . Perhaps :\'( :\'( :\'(

I had so wanted this to happen also. But I think Jack understood Ennis perfectly at that moment. To have pressed him some more would have invited increased resistance on Ennis's part. Ennis was resolved to fight against himself. Jack could not do anything...

tpe · « **Reply #89 on:** Dec 20, 2006, 09:41 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Dec 20, 2006, 08:57 AM

When they leave the mountain for the first time, the way Ennis reacts is somewhat analagous to the way one feels at the end of a holiday. For him the mountain has been a place away from real life, and the few months there a time out of time - it's the only part of his life that has ever presented him with any possibility of a different, richer life, but he's too afraid of the prospect to grasp it. The trouble is that he senses from that moment that he's wrong but he can;t bring himself to act any differently, once away from the mountain, from the way he's always done. That remains a problem because all their meetings, other than the one in Riverton, and that leads to it, are spent on the mountain in what becaomes an alternative life, or maybe an alternative universe, for a short period at brief intervals - and that's all Ennis expects or hopes to get.

Precisely. I do think that Ennis was constantly at war with himself. Certainly, it must have started when they were abouit to brink the sheep down from the mountain.

There is one image that I associate with Ennis and Jack fighting right before they descend: it is Jacob wrestling with the Angel. Do you get the analogy?