Topic: sitting on the mountain together

[shieldmaid]

Definitely. I think the next words spoken between them were probably the "s'alright" that Jack whispers in SNIT.

Wow . . . that gives me chills.  Hours of silence--and then this passionate union.

[NoReins]

Definitely. I think the next words spoken between them were probably the "s'alright" that Jack whispers in SNIT.

Wow . . . that gives me chills.  Hours of silence--and then this passionate union.

Mmmm. Probably part of what made it so passionate - a whole day (or more) of nerves, tension and desire released with that first kiss.

[MississaugaRed]

Mmmm. Probably part of what made it so passionate - a whole day (or more) of nerves, tension and desire released with that first kiss.

Absolutely!!  Jack is practically vibrating with suppressed passion with that first kiss - it's like he's releasing that hold on himself a little bit at a time through those first touches and kisses in SNIT, until he just dives in to devour Ennis, finally.

[NoReins]

Mmmm. Probably part of what made it so passionate - a whole day (or more) of nerves, tension and desire released with that first kiss.

Absolutely!!  Jack is practically vibrating with suppressed passion with that first kiss - it's like he's releasing that hold on himself a little bit at a time through those first touches and kisses in SNIT, until he just dives in to devour Ennis, finally.

Hell yeah! You've been reading too much fanfic MissRed

Sorry, back to topic...

[keren_b]

yes, back to topic... (though I realy loved the other topic, too...)

When Jack was lying there on the hill, I thought he looked almost tortured. He spent all day wondering how's Ennis going to react and what was he going to say. I can just imagine the thoughts that ran thru his head when Ennis approached him. "hell, what does he think? is he going to say something about it now? is he going to say something at all? I hope I didn't ruin everything... c'mon Ennis, spit it out already". I bet his heart was beating like crazy, he didn't know what to expect. that look on his face, that little sigh...he didn't look too optimistic. he was waiting all day to hear what Ennis thought, and he prepared himself for the worst.

[NoReins]

I think Jack would have been really scared that Ennis was going to go back into his shell, maybe even more so than that he was going to put a stop to any further physical involvement - terrified that what he had started the night before would have ended the friendship that had become so important to both of them.

[shieldmaid]

I think Jack would have been really scared that Ennis was going to go back into his shell, maybe even more so than that he was going to put a stop to any further physical involvement - terrified that what he had started the night before would have ended the friendship that had become so important to both of them.

Yes, I agree.  But I've always thought, too, that Jack must have been reassured immediately by Ennis's choice of words: "This is a one-shot thing we've got going on here."  Not "this only happened once" or "this will never happen again," but something that's "going on," implying that their time together will keep going. 

[NoReins]

Oh yes, Ennis's choice of words (or more specifically, choice of tense) would definitely have made Jack relax. My previous thoughts were about how Jack felt before Ennis says anything - at the point where Jack sighs.

[MississaugaRed]

[
Yes, I agree.  But I've always thought, too, that Jack must have been reassured immediately by Ennis's choice of words: "This is a one-shot thing we've got going on here."  Not "this only happened once" or "this will never happen again," but something that's "going on," implying that their time together will keep going. 

Good point, Shieldmaid - another reassuring thing I think Jack might have heard in Ennis's opening line ... I always get the impression Jack is afraid he's going to get slapped down hard; by Ennis saying "we" it's an admission that they both played a part in what had happened between them the night before.  He as an active participate. Ennis wasn't going to cop out and put the whole weight of it on Jack's tender shoulders.

[keren_b]

I've always thought, too, that Jack must have been reassured immediately by Ennis's choice of words: "This is a one-shot thing we've got going on here."  Not "this only happened once" or "this will never happen again," but something that's "going on," implying that their time together will keep going. 

That's really interesting... in the Hebrew subtitles they've translated it to something like "what happend was a one-shot thing", implying that it happened once and won't happen again, so I always thought that was the meaning and I didn't stop to think that the original sentence in English might have a different meaning. But as you say, Ennis could've reffered to it as something that was still going on... something like: "it's only for this time while we're on this mountain together, but once we get down it'll never happen again, not with you and not with anybody else, because I ain't queer". Do you think that's what he meant??

[NoReins]

I've always thought, too, that Jack must have been reassured immediately by Ennis's choice of words: "This is a one-shot thing we've got going on here."  Not "this only happened once" or "this will never happen again," but something that's "going on," implying that their time together will keep going. 

That's really interesting... in the Hebrew subtitles they've translated it to something like "what happend was a one-shot thing", implying that it happened once and won't happen again, so I always thought that was the meaning and I didn't stop to think that the original sentence in English might have a different meaning. But as you say, Ennis could've reffered to it as something that was still going on... something like: "it's only for this time while we're on this mountain together, but once we get down it'll never happen again, not with you and not with anybody else, because I ain't queer". Do you think that's what he meant??

Yes, I think that's exactly what he meant.

[shieldmaid]

Yes, I agree with NoReins on this one (oops--sorry for the pun!!).  When I first saw the movie, I thought Ennis was trying to say they were having just a temporary relationship, but then I realized he meant they were going to continue things as long as they were up there--and no longer.

[christie wood]

I think Jack would have been really scared that Ennis was going to go back into his shell, maybe even more so than that he was going to put a stop to any further physical involvement - terrified that what he had started the night before would have ended the friendship that had become so important to both of them.

Yes, I agree.  But I've always thought, too, that Jack must have been reassured immediately by Ennis's choice of words: "This is a one-shot thing we've got going on here."  Not "this only happened once" or "this will never happen again," but something that's "going on," implying that their time together will keep going. 

I agree Shieldmaid, the words that Ennis uses are very important, and Jack would have been waiting with baited breath to see what Ennis was going to say.  The fact he not only says "we" and uses the present tense, must go some way to reassure Jack.   

Have you noticed how long it takes Jack to respond to the "one shot thing" from Ennis? You see him nodding his head afew times, as if he's taking in what Ennis has said, and is trying to quickly assimilate the words and meaning, before replying with "nobodys business but ours".  But what do you think Jack is thinking?  Is he thinking "I didn't expect him to say that!" or ""my god, he's acknowledged it happened, he's not saying anything bad about it, he's talking in the present tense"?  I know that we will never know what he's thinking, but those few seconds between Ennis talking and Jack feel like a lifetime and I just wonder how he really feels about what Ennis has said to him.

[jackie62]

i watched this scene yesterday and the message in Ennis's words really hit me.

"it's a one shot thing we got going on here"

The first time i read the short story before the movie, I would have predicted that he would have hidden from it all by blaming Jack because up to then, while you could see an interest in Jack growing, I thought he wouldn't have let himself face it.

 Ennis could have chosen to put ownership of all that happened and all the emotions involved onto Jack. He had all day to reason it all away. He could have hidden his true feelings from himself ,in the idea that it was just sexual release.... nothing more . And he could have held onto the fact that he could only want a woman, after all didn't he have Alma waiting for him???.

But his words say clearly they are both involved -- both share the same need and can't walk away. While he says it is unique between Jack and him i.e. he wouldn't feel  like this with another guy ... he is acknowledging he wants this. I think the "one shot" phrase is this unique relationship, I'm not sure a time limit is in his head at that time.

The power of the need and desire between them must have been overwhelming to have got through Ennis's defences. Truly a force of nature.

[Valandil Eluch]

I think Jack would have been really scared that Ennis was going to go back into his shell, maybe even more so than that he was going to put a stop to any further physical involvement - terrified that what he had started the night before would have ended the friendship that had become so important to both of them.

Yes, I agree.  But I've always thought, too, that Jack must have been reassured immediately by Ennis's choice of words: "This is a one-shot thing we've got going on here."  Not "this only happened once" or "this will never happen again," but something that's "going on," implying that their time together will keep going. 

I agree Shieldmaid, the words that Ennis uses are very important, and Jack would have been waiting with baited breath to see what Ennis was going to say.  The fact he not only says "we" and uses the present tense, must go some way to reassure Jack.   

Have you noticed how long it takes Jack to respond to the "one shot thing" from Ennis? You see him nodding his head afew times, as if he's taking in what Ennis has said, and is trying to quickly assimilate the words and meaning, before replying with "nobodys business but ours".  But what do you think Jack is thinking?  Is he thinking "I didn't expect him to say that!" or ""my god, he's acknowledged it happened, he's not saying anything bad about it, he's talking in the present tense"?  I know that we will never know what he's thinking, but those few seconds between Ennis talking and Jack feel like a lifetime and I just wonder how he really feels about what Ennis has said to him.

christie wood it is really interesting what you just said and it make sense!

[shieldmaid]

I agree Shieldmaid, the words that Ennis uses are very important, and Jack would have been waiting with baited breath to see what Ennis was going to say.  The fact he not only says "we" and uses the present tense, must go some way to reassure Jack.   

Have you noticed how long it takes Jack to respond to the "one shot thing" from Ennis? You see him nodding his head afew times, as if he's taking in what Ennis has said, and is trying to quickly assimilate the words and meaning, before replying with "nobodys business but ours".  But what do you think Jack is thinking?  Is he thinking "I didn't expect him to say that!" or ""my god, he's acknowledged it happened, he's not saying anything bad about it, he's talking in the present tense"?  I know that we will never know what he's thinking, but those few seconds between Ennis talking and Jack feel like a lifetime and I just wonder how he really feels about what Ennis has said to him.

christie, That's a great point.  What *must* Jack be thinking of in those short--but oh so long!--moments of silence??  Perhaps he's both relieved and a little disappointed--he shows solidarity with Ennis by saying "it's nobody's business but ours" (in their own little club of two!) but also thinks, "please don't think less of me!"  In a way, he is probably suffering from the same anxiety that many couples face, of whatever sexual orientation, after they've been intimate together for the first time.  "Does he still like me?"  "Will we still be friends?"  And here, in more specific response to your ideas--"At least we're in this together. He acknowledges what happened. Sounds like it's going to happen again (!). What should I say next??" 

Just my speculation--this is a fascinating topic.

[christie wood]

I think Jack would have been really scared that Ennis was going to go back into his shell, maybe even more so than that he was going to put a stop to any further physical involvement - terrified that what he had started the night before would have ended the friendship that had become so important to both of them.

Yes, I agree.  But I've always thought, too, that Jack must have been reassured immediately by Ennis's choice of words: "This is a one-shot thing we've got going on here."  Not "this only happened once" or "this will never happen again," but something that's "going on," implying that their time together will keep going. 

I agree Shieldmaid, the words that Ennis uses are very important, and Jack would have been waiting with baited breath to see what Ennis was going to say.  The fact he not only says "we" and uses the present tense, must go some way to reassure Jack.   

Have you noticed how long it takes Jack to respond to the "one shot thing" from Ennis? You see him nodding his head afew times, as if he's taking in what Ennis has said, and is trying to quickly assimilate the words and meaning, before replying with "nobodys business but ours".  But what do you think Jack is thinking?  Is he thinking "I didn't expect him to say that!" or ""my god, he's acknowledged it happened, he's not saying anything bad about it, he's talking in the present tense"?  I know that we will never know what he's thinking, but those few seconds between Ennis talking and Jack feel like a lifetime and I just wonder how he really feels about what Ennis has said to him.

christie wood it is really interesting what you just said and it make sense!

What, I actually made sense?  Well, that's a first!    

[christie wood]

I agree Shieldmaid, the words that Ennis uses are very important, and Jack would have been waiting with baited breath to see what Ennis was going to say.  The fact he not only says "we" and uses the present tense, must go some way to reassure Jack.   

Have you noticed how long it takes Jack to respond to the "one shot thing" from Ennis? You see him nodding his head afew times, as if he's taking in what Ennis has said, and is trying to quickly assimilate the words and meaning, before replying with "nobodys business but ours".  But what do you think Jack is thinking?  Is he thinking "I didn't expect him to say that!" or ""my god, he's acknowledged it happened, he's not saying anything bad about it, he's talking in the present tense"?  I know that we will never know what he's thinking, but those few seconds between Ennis talking and Jack feel like a lifetime and I just wonder how he really feels about what Ennis has said to him.

christie, That's a great point.  What *must* Jack be thinking of in those short--but oh so long!--moments of silence??  Perhaps he's both relieved and a little disappointed--he shows solidarity with Ennis by saying "it's nobody's business but ours" (in their own little club of two!) but also thinks, "please don't think less of me!"  In a way, he is probably suffering from the same anxiety that many couples face, of whatever sexual orientation, after they've been intimate together for the first time.  "Does he still like me?"  "Will we still be friends?"  And here, in more specific response to your ideas--"At least we're in this together. He acknowledges what happened. Sounds like it's going to happen again (!). What should I say next??" 

Just my speculation--this is a fascinating topic.

You are right sheildmaid, this is an amazing topic, one I could analyse forever.  I'm glad you get what I was trying to explain (and carlos_H82 - thanks for backing me up too!!), I feel for Jack so much in this scene, because he was the one who initiated what happened the night before, he was not given anything from Ennis before he left in the morning, so he's had a WHOLE day to worry, and ponder on what Ennis thinks about the situation.  Shieldmaid, you sum perfectly for me what I think Jack would be thinking and how he would be reacting to what Ennis has said. 

[tpe]

Thank you all for the most wonderful thoughts.  There is so much richness here.  I am most grateful.

[CrimsonSky]

Thank you all for the most wonderful thoughts.  There is so much richness here.  I am most grateful.

Hear hear! It's amazing how there's so many layers in a scene that consists of only four sentences, talk about less is more!

I also think that scene shows Ennis setting out the ground rules, not just for that summer, but for their whole relationship, it's like he's saying "what happens on Brokeback, stays on Brokeback". I sometimes think of this scene when I watch their last scene together, when Jack says "All we got now is Brokeback Mountain...", cause, in the end, that's all they ever had :'( :'( :'(

[tpe]

I also think that scene shows Ennis setting out the ground rules, not just for that summer, but for their whole relationship, it's like he's saying "what happens on Brokeback, stays on Brokeback". I sometimes think of this scene when I watch their last scene together, when Jack says "All we got now is Brokeback Mountain...", cause, in the end, that's all they ever had :'( :'( :'(

Maybe a bit OOT, but it's funny that I had always thought that having at least Brokeback signified an entire universe of love shared -- in a very deep sense...  I look back at the final thoughts of Jack in the short story and realize that his resignation also implied an appreciation for the fact that the deep love they shared for each other was founded on so very little.  It is the miracle of a dream of love revealed.  And the tacit acceptance of its limitations, first laid out in their sitting on the mountain together, only served to highlight the immense power of that love to survive all.

'Let be...Let be...' 

[MississaugaRed]

Maybe a bit OOT, but it's funny that I had always thought that having at least Brokeback signified an entire universe of love shared -- in a very deep sense...  I look back at the final thoughts of Jack in the short story and realize that his resignation also implied an appreciation for the fact that the deep love they shared for each other was founded on so very little.  It is the miracle of a dream of love revealed. And the tacit acceptance of its limitations, first laid out in their sitting on the mountain together, only served to highlight the immense power of that love to survive all.

'Let be...Let be...' 

Thomas, that line brings tears everytime I read it, and we see it unspoken throughout their lives, don't we? I had never before seen it as starting from this scene here, though, as you have clearly shown.  What a lovely, heartbreaking thought!   :'(

[tpe]

Maybe a bit OOT, but it's funny that I had always thought that having at least Brokeback signified an entire universe of love shared -- in a very deep sense...  I look back at the final thoughts of Jack in the short story and realize that his resignation also implied an appreciation for the fact that the deep love they shared for each other was founded on so very little.  It is the miracle of a dream of love revealed. And the tacit acceptance of its limitations, first laid out in their sitting on the mountain together, only served to highlight the immense power of that love to survive all.

'Let be...Let be...' 

Thomas, that line brings tears everytime I read it, and we see it unspoken throughout their lives, don't we? I had never before seen it as starting from this scene here, though, as you have clearly shown.  What a lovely, heartbreaking thought!   :'(

MississaugaRed, I do think the silence is the most eloquent aspect of their love.  It is the silence that is so pregnant with emotion when they sit on the mountain.  And henceforth, their love is ruled by a silence that is deafening to the heart.

'Let be...Let be...'.  It is as if he says: 'stay quiet my heart; I love him in spite of everything.'

[CrimsonSky]

I also think that scene shows Ennis setting out the ground rules, not just for that summer, but for their whole relationship, it's like he's saying "what happens on Brokeback, stays on Brokeback". I sometimes think of this scene when I watch their last scene together, when Jack says "All we got now is Brokeback Mountain...", cause, in the end, that's all they ever had :'( :'( :'(

Maybe a bit OOT, but it's funny that I had always thought that having at least Brokeback signified an entire universe of love shared -- in a very deep sense...  I look back at the final thoughts of Jack in the short story and realize that his resignation also implied an appreciation for the fact that the deep love they shared for each other was founded on so very little.  It is the miracle of a dream of love revealed.  And the tacit acceptance of its limitations, first laid out in their sitting on the mountain together, only served to highlight the immense power of that love to survive all.

'Let be...Let be...' 

Beautifully put, thank you! And I never really thought about it like that, I guess it just breaks my heart that they never had that "sweet life" that Jack talked about, and it's easy sometimes to lose sight of what they did have

[tpe]

Thanks CrimsonSky.  And you're right, we dwell a lot on what could have been.  But we are hopelessly in love with this film because of the little that they DID have and shared with each other.

[shieldmaid]

What beautiful--and heartbreaking--interpretations of this scene.  I too love the application of "Let be . . . let be" here.  In a way, they make love to one another through their silences--this world which might have been, the only "sweet life" they ever knew.   :'(

[tpe]

shieldmaid, I do see what you mean here: the "sweet life" was never meant to be lived except in the mountains...

I am struck by how solemn this scene is.  The words spoken here seemed so very different from the tome I had come to associate with the short story.

It is so taut and fraught with tension -- you feel as if a bond is stretching to the full limit.  It serves as a beautiful introduction to the poetic second night scene.   In the scene on the mountain, they are struggling to come to terms verbally with how they feel for each other.  In the second night scene, you see the resolution beautifully released -- with hardly a word exchanged.

In the second night, they are almost reduced to silence by the power of their love.  The scene by the mountain prepared the way. 

[FlwrChild]

You are all so spot on with your comments. And you have expressed yourselves so beautifully! I can't really add anything because you've covered it so well! This is yet another scene that makes me think Ang Lee is amazing (and I've already raved about what our boys did with the material). They can do so much with so little! I'm amazed at how much they bring to life in a scene like this. And sorry if it's OT, but I can't help but think: can you imagine what they could have had if they were able to fully live their love?!

P.S. Just noticed my line above - I don't mean the source material when I say 'with so little'. I mean a minimalist scene like this one. Annie Proulx is awesome.

[tpe]

P.S. Just noticed my line above - I don't mean the source material when I say 'with so little'. I mean a minimalist scene like this one. Annie Proulx is awesome.

Yes, I know what you had meant: economy.

[FlwrChild]

P.S. Just noticed my line above - I don't mean the source material when I say 'with so little'. I mean a minimalist scene like this one. Annie Proulx is awesome.

Yes, I know what you had meant: economy.

Exactly. Thanks tpe