Topic: sitting on the mountain together

[tpe]

I am struck in a way by Jack's bravery in going out to face Ennis. It might have been easier for him to wait in camp for Ennis to show up - he didn't know how Ennis would react, he didn't know Ennis wouldn't want to punch his lights out. Yet he still went up there. On the other hand perhaps it was the case that he couldn't wait any longer - he needed to find out what Enns was thinking and feeling about FNIT, if that was the case was that out of a need for resolution for himself, or because he was worried about Ennis - or their flowering relationship.

Either way i admire Jack, and i really feel for him at the start of this scene - the look of resignation on his face is so heartwrenching, and looking at some of these beautiful screencaps how difficult must it have been to stop himself touching Ennis with his foot? I mean, look how close they are?

My two cents - beautiful beautiful scene...

Ennis's face we don't see for much of the exchange, but the look on Jack's face is truly enigmatic and inscrutable.  His eyes are veiled, and the eyes dream...

[tpe]

It's also "neutral ground" up there - back in camp the tent, the fire, everything would have reminded Ennis of what had happened the night before.

Very good point.

And he did not confront Ennis.  He waited until Ennis was ready to confront him -- in his own terms and on his own ground.

[tpe]

Very insightful posts bella and ainfoolin.  Not knowing what to expect from Ennis had to create a certain level of anxiety for Jack.  Allowing Ennis to talk first was a compassionate and very smart move.

On a scenic note, the view is abosolutely breath taking.

The view was certainly the third "character" in the scene.  It bore witness to what had and will transpire.

[tpe]

            Jack wasn't about to stay down at the camp, he had to know where he stood with Ennis. This whole scene sets the stage for the evolution of their love. Both of them new to the experience, verbally broach the subject superficially denying their attraction to each other, but tacitally showing it through their body language and nervous gestures. Notice that Ennis is sitting in front of Jack,  a signal of his dominace and notice Jack's relaxed prostate posture revealing his acceptance of his it. Notice that as his jaw tightens, he has just done a full body sweep of Jack in his all his enticing splendor.

I agree, it must have been torture for Jack just to wait for Ennis's return.  In a way, Jack wanted his presence to assure Ennis and strengthen his feelings for Jack at such a crucial time.  Nothing accentuates feelings more than close proximity.

[ksxks]

I am struck in a way by Jack's bravery in going out to face Ennis. It might have been easier for him to wait in camp for Ennis to show up - he didn't know how Ennis would react, he didn't know Ennis wouldn't want to punch his lights out. Yet he still went up there. On the other hand perhaps it was the case that he couldn't wait any longer - he needed to find out what Enns was thinking and feeling about FNIT, if that was the case was that out of a need for resolution for himself, or because he was worried about Ennis - or their flowering relationship.

Either way i admire Jack, and i really feel for him at the start of this scene - the look of resignation on his face is so heartwrenching, and looking at some of these beautiful screencaps how difficult must it have been to stop himself touching Ennis with his foot? I mean, look how close they are?

My two cents - beautiful beautiful scene...

Oh you are so right.  Jack is such a fascinating person, his willingness to put himself out there, show his caring.  And brave, just as you said.  So, that said, what is also interesting is that he just stretched himself out there on the hillside and waited for Ennis to come to him.  Presumably anyway -- we didn't see anything to the contrary.  He is in a very non-threatening posture, and just waited to see what Ennis's response would be.  Ennis is pretty brave, too, you know -- he had to go there to Jack and figure out where to sit, and he is the one who spoke first.

I so agree -- an exquisite scene.  Jack's face, so expressive.  And what we see of Ennis's.

kathy

[ksxks]

            Jack wasn't about to stay down at the camp, he had to know where he stood with Ennis. This whole scene sets the stage for the evolution of their love. Both of them new to the experience, verbally broach the subject superficially denying their attraction to each other, but tacitally showing it through their body language and nervous gestures. Notice that Ennis is sitting in front of Jack,  a signal of his dominace and notice Jack's relaxed prostate posture revealing his acceptance of his it. Notice that as his jaw tightens, he has just done a full body sweep of Jack in his all his enticing splendor.

Fascinating, indeed.  The body language signifying Ennis's dominance.  Is that because he puts his back to Jack, and putting your back to someone says that other person is not a threat?  If he had sat slightly behind Jack, so that Jack couldn't see him without turning around, that would seem to be another kind of dominance, kind of threatening in a way.

Ang Lee is genius.  And of course his chosen actors, couldn't be better.

kathy

[tpe]

Fascinating, indeed.  The body language signifying Ennis's dominance.  Is that because he puts his back to Jack, and putting your back to someone says that other person is not a threat?  If he had sat slightly behind Jack, so that Jack couldn't see him without turning around, that would seem to be another kind of dominance, kind of threatening in a way.

Ang Lee is genius.  And of course his chosen actors, couldn't be better.

kathy

Yes, these details are noteworthy.  So much "said" without recourse to actual words.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Yes, these details are noteworthy.  So much "said" without recourse to actual words.

I couldn't agree more.

[aintfoolin]

Also with this body posture, Ennis did'nt have to look directly at Jack. He still was not ready to be face to face about it. The slight turn of the sideways glance as he spoke revealed alot.

[welshwitch]

They weren't face-to-face in FNIT or on the mountain; not till SNIT did they confront each other and look directly into one another's eyes, which was also the point when they were both ready to accept what was happening to them.

[aintfoolin]

This is true WW, Ennis seemed to be searching Jack's eyes for something here I feel. Whatever it was ,he definitly found it.  Gawd, I love it!

[lamusica]

This is one time Jack would not be put off by Ennis.  No matter what Ennis said, Jack was going to get his way.  From the very beginning of this scene, Jack's face is set firmly.  He is NOT going to let Ennis get out of this relationship at this point.  Maybe Jack didn't know exactly where it was going, but he was not going to let Ennis say "no", in my opinion.
When Ennis said this was a one-shsot thing, Jack didn't flinch or back down one bit.  He answered,"It's nobody's business but ours".  He had spoken. Now he just had to wait until that night to see what Ennis would do.  Had Ennis not come to the tent the second night, I don't think Jack would have given up.  He was too set on Ennis to back off now.

[ksxks]

Also with this body posture, Ennis did'nt have to look directly at Jack. He still was not ready to be face to face about it. The slight turn of the sideways glance as he spoke revealed alot.

Yes -- Ennis didn't look directly at Jack, but sitting like that makes it so he is visible to Jack (even though not his full face).  So that is an interesting dynamic.  If he really wanted to hide his feelings from Jack, he would have sat kind of behind Jack.  But he didn't want to hide his feelings from Jack; he wanted Jack to see him...but not full-on at this moment.

kathy

[ksxks]

They weren't face-to-face in FNIT or on the mountain; not till SNIT did they confront each other and look directly into one another's eyes, which was also the point when they were both ready to accept what was happening to them.

Well, they were face-to-face for those intense few moments in FNIT, so at least they didn't go into this thing completely blindly, anonymously so to speak.

But certainly SNIT was finally an eyes-meeting, truth-showing time.  Though Ennis had trouble meeting Jack's gaze at first.

kathy

[aimi15]

Yes -- Ennis didn't look directly at Jack, but sitting like that makes it so he is visible to Jack (even though not his full face).  So that is an interesting dynamic.  If he really wanted to hide his feelings from Jack, he would have sat kind of behind Jack.  But he didn't want to hide his feelings from Jack; he wanted Jack to see him...but not full-on at this moment.

kathy

That's a good point kathy. There are instances throughotu the film where Ennis is shown to assert his masculintiy/dominace by picking fights, puffing his chest out etc. In this scene i would kind of be expecting him to do that with Jack, but he doesn't. He walks over to him, sees Jack's prone position (almost submissive? I'm thinking of the way my cats roll over and show their bellies as if to say OK i surrender...O/T  ) and sits himself down, bringing himself more on a par with Jack. IMHO he is giving up somewhat of his natural dominance that i would typically associate with him. Fascinating dynamics.

[ksxks]

That's a good point kathy. There are instances throughotu the film where Ennis is shown to assert his masculintiy/dominace by picking fights, puffing his chest out etc. In this scene i would kind of be expecting him to do that with Jack, but he doesn't. He walks over to him, sees Jack's prone position (almost submissive? I'm thinking of the way my cats roll over and show their bellies as if to say OK i surrender...O/T  ) and sits himself down, bringing himself more on a par with Jack. IMHO he is giving up somewhat of his natural dominance that i would typically associate with him. Fascinating dynamics.

I agree about Jack's position, too.  He put himself there completely non-threatening, saying to Ennis, "Do with me what you will."  And an interesting point you make about Ennis asserting dominance in various ways throughout, but not here.  At first, when Ennis is standing there with his gun, he doesn't know exactly where he wants to sit I think; and also, takes a little step or two closer before he sits down?

kathy

[tpe]

Also with this body posture, Ennis did'nt have to look directly at Jack. He still was not ready to be face to face about it. The slight turn of the sideways glance as he spoke revealed alot.

Yes, that glance must have taken an immense effort on his part. 

He was not reaally afraid to face Jack, I suspect.  He was probably afraid that the struggle would show too clearly on his face and that Jack would see it and become alarmed.  Speculation, perhaps, but one can certainly see it as a tremendous act of will and self-control.  His quiet voice belies the turmoil within.

[tpe]

This is one time Jack would not be put off by Ennis.  No matter what Ennis said, Jack was going to get his way.  From the very beginning of this scene, Jack's face is set firmly.  He is NOT going to let Ennis get out of this relationship at this point.  Maybe Jack didn't know exactly where it was going, but he was not going to let Ennis say "no", in my opinion.
When Ennis said this was a one-shsot thing, Jack didn't flinch or back down one bit.  He answered,"It's nobody's business but ours".  He had spoken. Now he just had to wait until that night to see what Ennis would do.  Had Ennis not come to the tent the second night, I don't think Jack would have given up.  He was too set on Ennis to back off now.

Yes, I did think there was quiet determination in Jack's face.  He was willing "spin" it any way Ennis would want it provided that he gets Ennis to face up to his own and Jack's desires.

Jack here was a pragmatist.  And like all pragmatists, they understand that "one-shot thing" could become an eternity.

[tpe]

That's a good point kathy. There are instances throughotu the film where Ennis is shown to assert his masculintiy/dominace by picking fights, puffing his chest out etc. In this scene i would kind of be expecting him to do that with Jack, but he doesn't. He walks over to him, sees Jack's prone position (almost submissive? I'm thinking of the way my cats roll over and show their bellies as if to say OK i surrender...O/T  ) and sits himself down, bringing himself more on a par with Jack. IMHO he is giving up somewhat of his natural dominance that i would typically associate with him. Fascinating dynamics.

Wonderful point.  The fight right before coming down from the mountain was a fluke -- in the sense that Jack's timing was not right and that Ennis was more angru at himself than with Jack.  But in this scene, we see Ennis almost submissive.  Docile, relatively speaking.  I think it was a way of expressing his love for Jack.

[tpe]

I agree about Jack's position, too.  He put himself there completely non-threatening, saying to Ennis, "Do with me what you will."  And an interesting point you make about Ennis asserting dominance in various ways throughout, but not here.  At first, when Ennis is standing there with his gun, he doesn't know exactly where he wants to sit I think; and also, takes a little step or two closer before he sits down?

kathy

It was like an annunciation...

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

Yes, I did think there was quiet determination in Jack's face.  He was willing "spin" it any way Ennis would want it provided that he gets Ennis to face up to his own and Jack's desires.

Jack here was a pragmatist.  And like all pragmatists, they understand that "one-shot thing" could become an eternity.

Interesting point tpe!

[tpe]

Anyway, I don't think Jack ever agreed to the "one-shot thing."  "Ain't nobody's business but ours" doesn't sound like a "yes" to me...

[LuvJackNasty]

True TPE- it doesn't.    And as you stated in an earlier post he would have put any type of spin on it if it meant keeping Ennis.

[ksxks]

Anyway, I don't think Jack ever agreed to the "one-shot thing."  "Ain't nobody's business but ours" doesn't sound like a "yes" to me...

Yes, that is so interesting.  Jack's answer is not an answer to what Ennis said.  Also, probably a bit canny on his part (this man thinks on his feet, or on his ass or wherever) to say this, hopefully letting Ennis know that what happens on Brokeback stays on Brokeback...

kathy

[keren_b]

Yeah, I thought it was his way to reassure Ennis. something like "don't worry, go with your heart, nobody's gonna know".

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

True TPE- it doesn't.    And as you stated in an earlier post he would have put any type of spin on it if it meant keeping Ennis.

I believe that to be true too.  In addition to finding out where Ennis's head was at, Jack seemed to want to put him at ease.  I think Jack would have said what was necessary to ensure that. This is not to imply Jack set out to be deceptive.

[welshwitch]

In a more general sense it also strikes me as a rathr independent-minded statemnet - suggesting that one can make one's own criteria and isn't necessarily subject to those of wider society. Or perhaps that the mountain is their world, where they make the rules?

[tpe]

Thanks everyone.  I also think there was an element of desperation on Jack's part to keep Ennis from repudiating anything that had developed between them.  I'm sure he was struggling mightily inside of himself during that quiet and tense exchange.  And I think Jack read Ennin correctly at that moment, so that his responses were not just understandable: they were calculated to reassure Ennis and Jack himself that there would be no remorse.

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

In a more general sense it also strikes me as a rathr independent-minded statemnet - suggesting that one can make one's own criteria and isn't necessarily subject to those of wider society. Or perhaps that the mountain is their world, where they make the rules?

The mountain did provide a certain peace and serenity.  It made things certainly easier for the two of them to come to terms with what was developing between them.

[ksxks]

In a more general sense it also strikes me as a rathr independent-minded statemnet - suggesting that one can make one's own criteria and isn't necessarily subject to those of wider society. Or perhaps that the mountain is their world, where they make the rules?

Good point, WW, that Jack would want to indicate to Ennis that all the old rules don't apply.  That this love-thing is indeed not anyone else's business.  Unfortunately, that only worked for them on the mountain.

kathy