Topic: Jack -- "You folks run you off?"

[FlwrChild]

I think you're right, tpe. This should be a separate topic. Maybe someone would like to start a new thread? Don't know what the heading would be.

I will say this. Alma was most definitely bitter. Justifiably so? Probably, but the look on her face at that table was not one of a woman gloating over having scored the catch of the county. It was the look of a woman who had held too much inside for too long, and needed Ennis finally to know that she knew what he was, and the true nature of his relationship with Jack.

tpe is definitely right that "there are no obvious heroes -- every character is flawed.  That is why it stikes a chord in our own shared humanity."

Now to get us back on topic, one of the things I like in the "Folks run you off?" scene is the look on Jack's face as he digests this new information. It's basically been small talk to get to know each other a little. But this is a major aspect of Ennis's life, even if almost casually mentioned, and I like how Jack takes it seriously and gives it the respect and weight it deserves. "Shit, that's hard", to quote Cassie 'doesn't say much but it gets the point across'.

[tpe]

tpe, I don't think Alma was bitter.  She's the winner with the best husband in the movie.  She ended up pretty well off... and loved.  Try as I might I can't think of one flaw in Monroe.  What a great thing he did by taking on those girls.  He was a prince among cheaters, liars and brutes.

And, speaking of folks running kids off, it looks like Alma Jr still lived at home at 19.  The child support had ended for her... Monroe didn't  boot her out.  He could have.  He probably gave her a job at the store.  The day Alma married Monroe was a lucky day for all of them.

OT: For me, she was definitely bitter.  The way she reacted during the thanksgiving scene tell us that she had suffered much and continued to suffer much through all those years of lies, betrayal, and distrust. 

Being a winner in the divorce case and being remarried to Monroe does not mean that she was happy -- the same way that there are many people who get pretty much what they want and remain unhappy.  Alma did not stay married to Ennis for so long (with the knowledge that she knew) for nothing -- neither did it leave her unscathed.  In many ways, she was the greatest loser in this story, if you count how much she suffered/suffers.  And as in most betrayals, the pain does not go away after a divorce or a remarriage.

To go back to the topic, one can say the same thing with Ennis  -- the loss of his parents at such an early age left their mark on him -- his tendency to brood, to be alone, to be lonely.   Clearly, his older brother and sister could not bridge the emotional breach made by the loss of both parents, since they too were immersed in it.  Perhaps it is less about heroism and more about desperation -- the will and idea to survive.  They all did the best they could, which wasn't that much, I'm afraid.

[tpe]

I think you're right, tpe. This should be a separate topic. Maybe someone would like to start a new thread? Don't know what the heading would be.

Perhaps Tam would like to start a new thread on that particular topic.  Tam, could you do this?    It would prove interesting, IMO.

I will say this. Alma was most definitely bitter. Justifiably so? Probably, but the look on her face at that table was not one of a woman gloating over having scored the catch of the county. It was the look of a woman who had held too much inside for too long, and needed Ennis finally to know that she knew what he was, and the true nature of his relationship with Jack.

tpe is definitely right that "there are no obvious heroes -- every character is flawed.  That is why it stikes a chord in our own shared humanity."

Now to get us back on topic, one of the things I like in the "Folks run you off?" scene is the look on Jack's face as he digests this new information. It's basically been small talk to get to know each other a little. But this is a major aspect of Ennis's life, even if almost casually mentioned, and I like how Jack takes it seriously and gives it the respect and weight it deserves. "Shit, that's hard", to quote Cassie 'doesn't say much but it gets the point across'.

Yes, I think that Jack inadvertently stumbled on a major factor that shaped Ennis's life.  In a way, Ennis gave it to him -- as if there was already some bond of implicit trust they shared from the start.  And yes, to jack's credit, he didn't try to brush it off with a joke or something lighthearted.  He let things stand as is, and voiced understanding in that simple statement of his.