Topic: motel room scene

[shieldmaid]

You also need to remember Ennis' personality...he is very responsible...always does his job (unless Jack sends a postcard).

Also, Ennis was orphaned at an early age, and would never leave his daughters...he knew what it was to be without a father.  Even a divorced sometime dad is better than no dad

I think that's a really important point.  It's not that Jack wasn't a responsible person, it's just that Ennis was more interested in having a family than he was.  The short story says something like, "Ennis used to want a boy for a kid but never got anything but little girls," while Jack says, "I didn't want none of either kind but f*&k-all has worked the way I wanted."  For Ennis family responsibility--and the painful memories of gay-bashing that his father instilled in him--remain greater weights in his day-to-day life than Jack.

But wait, maybe I don't really even mean that.  Jack is obviously the greatest happiness of his love, also the greatest disappointment . . . but Ennis can't quite figure out how to articulate/show the responsibility he feels toward Jack.  Maybe that's it. 

[tpe]

Also, Ennis was orphaned at an early age, and would never leave his daughters...he knew what it was to be without a father.  Even a divorced sometime dad is better than no dad

This is a good point.

[jesseanne21]

I also think that he feared he'd lose his daughters (or Alma might prevent him from seeing them) if he lived openly with Jack

[ksxks]

This is acceptable to me.  But, with or without a notion of "gayness", I do think Ennis expresses here the impossibility of changing his life to accomodate his love of Jack. 

As for living as a couple, Ennis must have had an idea of this as a possibility, particularly in the case of Earl and Rich.  Even as a young boy growing up, he was made to understand why Earl and Rich did not conform -- hence, the inevitable punishment metted out by a disapproving society.    It is not that he was unaware of such possibilities; it was a matter of his inability to bring about a change in his life in order to live out a love that he knew, from prior experience, was bound to attract disapproval and (in his mind) inevitable reprisal.

But I do think that closing the door to the possibility of a shared life did not necessarily mean that Ennis was closing the door on his love for Jack.  The solution was a clandestine love.  So long as they did not live openly the shared life that Jack dreamed of having, their love stood a chance of surviving through the years.  This is why I had always interpreted this strange pattern of limited engagements as a way for Ennis to protect their love from the forces that sought to destroy it.

Ennis must have envisioned possibilities that society at large would never have accepted out in the open.  It certainly did not need a notion of gayness, which is a latecomer relative to the ancient and persistent tradition of love between men.  At the core of this is my personal belief that such a love is as natural as rain and sunshine.  The possibilities have been envisioned for millenia.  It cannot be suppressed, even as light cannot be hidden in perpetual darkness.

Beautifully said, tpe.  Of course Ennis knew that such love existed, and that such a life together with a man was a possibility, regardless of any culture of "gay" or lack thereof.  Especially as he learned about this at a young age, it was imprinted on him in those formative years both the positive aspects he must have observed about those two tough old birds, and the negative outcome of the situation.  And his solution -- the "clandestine love" as you said -- was the best he could do.  Protecting them both, protecting their love.  Jack was a silly dreamer, thinking they could just up and be together no problem.

And I love what you said about men having always been together (and so have women).  It didn't really matter what time Ennis and Jack would have met.  As far as that goes, as far as the time they did meet -- they might have seen media coverage about the civil rights movement and become politicized, but they didn't.  Their lives weren't really connected out in the larger society of the U.S. very much.  Not exactly saying that too well..but just to say I like what you said.

kathy

[tpe]

I also think that he feared he'd lose his daughters (or Alma might prevent him from seeing them) if he lived openly with Jack

Yes, it is interesting that Jack did not seem to feel the same way when it comes to losing Bobby in a divorce.

For Ennis, it must have been the experience of being orphaned.  He did not want his daughters to lose a parent, be it in divorce or an untimely death in the hands of bigots.

[christie wood]

What a wonderful thread sheildmaid, its been so interesting reading everyone's opinions and feelings about this beautiful and very important scene.  I love how it begins, with Jack, taking a drag on his cigarette before saying "four years...damn", I just find that opening really captivating.  The way Jack nuzzles into Ennis' hair, and Ennis repeating Jack "yeah, four years" while tenderly touching and rubbing his arm, as he does throughout the scene.

There's one part that I would love to see Ennis' face completely, its when Jack says "didnt know we were going to get into this again....".  I know we get to see him when Jack asks "what about you?" but I'm being really picky and can't help wondering how Ennis reacted to Jack saying this.

But the overall scene is, as Kathy said in an earlier post, sexy, poignant, and sad.   It's all those things - its wonderful to see them with their bodies touching, and them feeling so relaxed with each other - but ultimately, its Ennis' forlorn face at the end that just brings it back to reality.    :\'(  :\'(

[shieldmaid]

It's so interesting to me, too, how short this scene is.  Lots of people have commented on the short length of FNIT (was it 29 seconds??)--this is similar.  They get to touch each other, cuddle, confide, catch up a bit--but only for so long.  It's as though reality has to come rushing back in again all too soon.  At least they get to go "fishing" together for a while after this. 

[NoReins]

It's so interesting to me, too, how short this scene is.  Lots of people have commented on the short length of FNIT (was it 29 seconds??)--this is similar.  They get to touch each other, cuddle, confide, catch up a bit--but only for so long.  It's as though reality has to come rushing back in again all too soon.  At least they get to go "fishing" together for a while after this. 

I think it was 27 seconds in FNIT - not that I've studied it at all, you understand

The difference is that we see the entirity of FNIT from start to finish - we don't see that with the motel scene. Although what we see is short (and sweet), it's only the culmination (or maybe the lull in the middle?) of a whole night together.

[welshwitch]

Ang is good at showing the aftermath of passion - "Calm of mind, all passion spent", as Milton puts it. Next morning we see them asleep then Ennis waking; just before the final confrontation there's another shot of them asleep together. We never see Jack asleep with Lureen, nor Ennis with Alma, just another indication, I like to think, that it's only together that they are satiated and contented. 

[shieldmaid]

The difference is that we see the entirity of FNIT from start to finish - we don't see that with the motel scene. Although what we see is short (and sweet), it's only the culmination (or maybe the lull in the middle?) of a whole night together.

Ang is good at showing the aftermath of passion - "Calm of mind, all passion spent", as Milton puts it. Next morning we see them asleep then Ennis waking; just before the final confrontation there's another shot of them asleep together. We never see Jack asleep with Lureen, nor Ennis with Alma, just another indication, I like to think, that it's only together that they are satiated and contented. 

These are both such good points--I guess this puts us in a bit of a "fly on the wall" perspective.  We get to see part of what's going on, but not all of it.  Maybe that implies that their reunion is in some ways so precious to them that even we can't glimpse it--that it's best left up to our imaginations.  And it's only with each other that they feel truly comfortable, relaxed, at home.  Doesn't matter whether it's in a hotel room or in the woods--with each other they find peace.

[CherryCake]

The difference is that we see the entirity of FNIT from start to finish - we don't see that with the motel scene. Although what we see is short (and sweet), it's only the culmination (or maybe the lull in the middle?) of a whole night together.

Ang is good at showing the aftermath of passion - "Calm of mind, all passion spent", as Milton puts it. Next morning we see them asleep then Ennis waking; just before the final confrontation there's another shot of them asleep together. We never see Jack asleep with Lureen, nor Ennis with Alma, just another indication, I like to think, that it's only together that they are satiated and contented. 

These are both such good points--I guess this puts us in a bit of a "fly on the wall" perspective.  We get to see part of what's going on, but not all of it.  Maybe that implies that their reunion is in some ways so precious to them that even we can't glimpse it--that it's best left up to our imaginations.  And it's only with each other that they feel truly comfortable, relaxed, at home.  Doesn't matter whether it's in a hotel room or in the woods--with each other they find peace.

What I would have loved to seen in the motel sequence (as in the short story)  is where Jack gets bold and talks Ennis into going to the mountains with him.  He practically begs Ennis to at least give him a couple more days.  Of course Ennis goes.
For some reason I miss Jack's bitching and Ennis trying to make Jack happy.  Never enough.   

[shieldmaid]

I know what you mean--it's partly just those normal, everyday interactions that help make them so real and desirable.  I would love to hear the conversation on the way TO the motel, too . . . if they could control their lust long enough to make some kind of sense. 

[hpv]

 I copied from Jack's pict.thread sure Twisted won't mind,they belong here as well

There's something wrong at the hosting company, where i put my pics, because they aren't showing   I'll put new pics, and hope that the old pics shows someday.

Never enough time,never enough...SIGH..   

[welshwitch]

One of the interesting things about this scene is that it's so delocalised; there's the exterior shot, then the "motel room" could be anywhere - there's a part of a bed-head shown and that's it. The focus is all on Jack and Ennis, because it doesn't really matter where they are - they're together and anything else would be a distraction.

[shieldmaid]

One of the interesting things about this scene is that it's so delocalised; there's the exterior shot, then the "motel room" could be anywhere - there's a part of a bed-head shown and that's it. The focus is all on Jack and Ennis, because it doesn't really matter where they are - they're together and anything else would be a distraction.

True--I'm reminded, too, of the movie's tagline: "Love is a force of nature."  When they're outside in the wilderness together, the beauty of the natural world seems to reflect the beauty of their love for one another.  But when they're indoors or otherwise involved in the humdrum human world (such as Ennis's apartment, as someone pointed out earlier), the background shrinks away until all we can see is them and their passion, close up and squeezing everything else out of view.

[christie wood]

It's so interesting to me, too, how short this scene is.  Lots of people have commented on the short length of FNIT (was it 29 seconds??)--this is similar.  They get to touch each other, cuddle, confide, catch up a bit--but only for so long.  It's as though reality has to come rushing back in again all too soon.  At least they get to go "fishing" together for a while after this. 

I think it was 27 seconds in FNIT - not that I've studied it at all, you understand

The difference is that we see the entirity of FNIT from start to finish - we don't see that with the motel scene. Although what we see is short (and sweet), it's only the culmination (or maybe the lull in the middle?) of a whole night together.

Thats true, but lets face it, if they showed the whole of the motel scene, it would take up the whole film!!!   

Joking aside, as much as we want to see more, what we do see says so much doesnt it?  And shows so much.   But in so many scenes in this film, less is more.

There's another thing I love about this scene.  I adore Ennis when he says "I figured you were sore from that punch"......not only because I love the way he says it, he sounds almost drunk, like he's intoxicated with having Jack next to him, but the fact that that punch has stayed with him all these years, and just like the "army didnt get you" line from him, it shows clearly that Ennis has been thinking constantly of Jack since leaving Brokeback.

[NoReins]

Thats true, but lets face it, if they showed the whole of the motel scene, it would take up the whole film!!!   

Now that's one film I'd like to see

There's another thing I love about this scene.  I adore Ennis when he says "I figured you were sore from that punch"......not only because I love the way he says it, he sounds almost drunk, like he's intoxicated with having Jack next to him, but the fact that that punch has stayed with him all these years, and just like the "army didnt get you" line from him, it shows clearly that Ennis has been thinking constantly of Jack since leaving Brokeback.

Yeah, I love that too. Pretty sure Ennis remembers everything from their time together on Brokeback - and I'm sure the fact that he says those things tells Jack all he really needs to know about how Ennis feels. I mean, you don't remember everything that happened to you during a period four years earlier unless that period was the most special and important of your whole life, do you?

[ksxks]

[Thats true, but lets face it, if they showed the whole of the motel scene, it would take up the whole film!!!   

Joking aside, as much as we want to see more, what we do see says so much doesnt it?  And shows so much.   But in so many scenes in this film, less is more.

There's another thing I love about this scene.  I adore Ennis when he says "I figured you were sore from that punch"......not only because I love the way he says it, he sounds almost drunk, like he's intoxicated with having Jack next to him, but the fact that that punch has stayed with him all these years, and just like the "army didnt get you" line from him, it shows clearly that Ennis has been thinking constantly of Jack since leaving Brokeback.

Also, by seeing less, we get to spend a whole lot of time dreaming and thinking and talking about what we didn't see...and this is a good thing, si? 

I love what you said, christie, about Ennis saying those lines -- not only the sexy way he says them (the sexy way he says everything) but that it shows how Jack has always been on his mind all these four years.  (OT:  but oh god, I want a BBM songvid to "You Are Always on My Mind" by Willie Nelson.)

kathy

[christie wood]

[Thats true, but lets face it, if they showed the whole of the motel scene, it would take up the whole film!!!   

Joking aside, as much as we want to see more, what we do see says so much doesnt it?  And shows so much.   But in so many scenes in this film, less is more.

There's another thing I love about this scene.  I adore Ennis when he says "I figured you were sore from that punch"......not only because I love the way he says it, he sounds almost drunk, like he's intoxicated with having Jack next to him, but the fact that that punch has stayed with him all these years, and just like the "army didnt get you" line from him, it shows clearly that Ennis has been thinking constantly of Jack since leaving Brokeback.

Also, by seeing less, we get to spend a whole lot of time dreaming and thinking and talking about what we didn't see...and this is a good thing, si? 

I love what you said, christie, about Ennis saying those lines -- not only the sexy way he says them (the sexy way he says everything) but that it shows how Jack has always been on his mind all these four years.  (OT:  but oh god, I want a BBM songvid to "You Are Always on My Mind" by Willie Nelson.)

kathy

I'm surprised there isnt one already? A song vid I mean.

And those lines that Ennis says, yes they are so sexy, but they do sound a little slurred, dont you think? No wonder I suppose, he was drinking all day waiting for Jack!!!!

[NoReins]

And those lines that Ennis says, yes they are so sexy, but they do sound a little slurred, dont you think? No wonder I suppose, he was drinking all day waiting for Jack!!!!

I always thought they were slightly slurred because he had just woken up after a post-coital doze.

[christie wood]

And those lines that Ennis says, yes they are so sexy, but they do sound a little slurred, dont you think? No wonder I suppose, he was drinking all day waiting for Jack!!!!

I always thought they were slightly slurred because he had just woken up after a post-coital doze.

You think they actually slept?       It may be that your theory is right, but I think I prefer thinking that he was just so intoxicated by Jack - god his voice is so godamn sexy.

[ksxks]

I copied from Jack's pict.thread sure Twisted won't mind,they belong here as well

Hmmm...  I'm not getting the pictures -- that's never happened before.  Just the big blank space with the little X in the box up in the corner.  Any info from anyone as to why that's happening?  Thanks.

kathy


Never enough time,never enough...SIGH..   

[ksxks]

And those lines that Ennis says, yes they are so sexy, but they do sound a little slurred, dont you think? No wonder I suppose, he was drinking all day waiting for Jack!!!!

I always thought they were slightly slurred because he had just woken up after a post-coital doze.

You think they actually slept?       It may be that your theory is right, but I think I prefer thinking that he was just so intoxicated by Jack - god his voice is so godamn sexy.

Again, I'm no expert, or is it just a joke on men, but don't men usually like doze off immediately after having sex?  So by sleep, I would mean, just that little post-coital doze...

kathy

[shieldmaid]

Now that's another scene I would love to see--Ennis and Jack dozing in each other's arms.  Then waking up, surprised and delighted to remember where they are . . . .   

[welshwitch]

I can just imagine " BBM - the Cowboys Return" as made by some of us. It would be all motel scene. Do you remember a while back someone made ( as a work of art) a whole video of David Beckham sleeping? Well, this would be like that but with Jake and Heath - I bet they'd jump at the chance to do it, no lines, no moves, no rehearsals, just sleeping - course, there might be a bit of preliminary action but " no instruction needed" for that.

[hpv]

Hmmm...  I'm not getting the pictures -- that's never happened before.  Just the big blank space with the little X in the box up in the corner.  Any info from anyone as to why that's happening?  Thanks.
kathy

I copied from Jack's pict.thread sure Twisted won't mind,they belong here as well

 

There's something wrong at the hosting company, where i put my pics, because they aren't showing   I'll put new pics, and hope that the old pics shows someday.

Never enough time,never enough...SIGH..   

There they are again !!! 

[shieldmaid]

I'm noticing again here the fact that Jack seems much more unabashedly happy in these pics--Ennis's forehead is wrinkled, but Jack is smiling and his face is unlined.  To me this makes many of Ennis's statements--"Didn't think I would hear from you again.  Figured you was still sore from that punch"--somehow more poignant.

[keren_b]

OT - shieldmaid, congratulations on being Jacked!! 

[welshwitch]

Thn you know there's going to be this huge comedown between the rapture of the reunion and Ennis's almost immediate crushing of Jack's hopes. you can see it in the set expression on his face, so different from Jack's. In the end Ennis's refusal to change turns Jack's expression into his - as when he goes to Mexico or in the confrontation scene.

[ksxks]

Now that's another scene I would love to see--Ennis and Jack dozing in each other's arms.  Then waking up, surprised and delighted to remember where they are . . . .   

I'd love to see this.  For instance, Ennis wakes up first, and we would get to see his face as he watches his Jack still sleeping, their faces just inches apart, their bodies all the way together still from falling asleep in each other's arms...and Ennis would kiss Jack awake...

kathy