Topic: Why did Jack and Lureen stay married for so long?

[stacp]

With Lureen and Jack, a lot of it became about appearances : it was just easier to stay together then it was to leave
Lureen in particular lived in a sheltered world over-protected by her pushy, bigoted father and she was accustomed to living a lie. I don’t think she would have even allowed divorce.

I always thought part of Jack's allure to Lureen was the fact that he was just the type of guy her daddy would not like.  Her last rebellion against an obvious controlling father, perhaps?  I think Jack stayed with Lureen simply because it was only Ennis that he wanted.  Having Ennis was the only thing that mattered (speaking narrowly here, of course), and everything else in life was just peripheral.  So, if he couldn't be with Ennis, why not stay with Lureen?  She's not who Jack wants, but neither is anybody else.  Plus, Lureen offers financial security and is the mother of his son.  I do think there was a mutual respect between Jack and Lureen as well, if not a physical attraction on Jack's part.

[tpe]

With Lureen and Jack, a lot of it became about appearances : it was just easier to stay together then it was to leave
Lureen in particular lived in a sheltered world over-protected by her pushy, bigoted father and she was accustomed to living a lie. I don’t think she would have even allowed divorce.

She certainly seemed to have been lost in a world of her own later in life.  Initially, it was just money.  Later, her dresses, hairstyles, and jewelry ( a lot of blue stones, for some reason) do seem to point to a world of appearances.

[tpe]

I always thought part of Jack's allure to Lureen was the fact that he was just the type of guy her daddy would not like.  Her last rebellion against an obvious controlling father, perhaps?  I think Jack stayed with Lureen simply because it was only Ennis that he wanted.  Having Ennis was the only thing that mattered (speaking narrowly here, of course), and everything else in life was just peripheral.  So, if he couldn't be with Ennis, why not stay with Lureen?  She's not who Jack wants, but neither is anybody else.  Plus, Lureen offers financial security and is the mother of his son.  I do think there was a mutual respect between Jack and Lureen as well, if not a physical attraction on Jack's part.

I do like your suggestion of Lureen rebelling against her father.  Not so sure what other members would make of it, but I find it interesting, and plausible.

 

[MississaugaRed]

With Lureen and Jack, a lot of it became about appearances : it was just easier to stay together then it was to leave
Lureen in particular lived in a sheltered world over-protected by her pushy, bigoted father and she was accustomed to living a lie. I don’t think she would have even allowed divorce.

She certainly seemed to have been lost in a world of her own later in life.  Initially, it was just money.  Later, her dresses, hairstyles, and jewelry ( a lot of blue stones, for some reason) do seem to point to a world of appearances.

Blue like Jack's eyes, maybe??  She did love him, or was infatuated by him at the beginning of their marriage, whatever the triggers.  Maybe the blue stones are a symbol of yearning for what she never really possessed, even after her conscious desire to possess it has died?

Lureen may indeed have been partly rebelling again the type of man her father would have wanted her to be with when she married Jack, as stacp suggested.  It's certainly plausible, not uncommon for young women (or men) especially head-strong ones with a domineering parent who are trying to assert their independence.

And I can also see, as frances mentioned, that Lureen may have resisted a divorce if Jack brought it up.  She styled herself a successful business women by the end.  As she becomes a slave to appearances, she may well have feared that being  considered a failure at marriage might make business associates think that she'd eventually fail at business too.

I had sometimes wondered (not often because I'm Jack-centric and love every single thing about him, so thinking it feels like betrayal) why he didn't take the initiative to leave Lureen, move closer to Ennis so that they could be together more often.  We acknowledge that Ennis could have moved but didn't, wondered what stopped Jack from moving closer.  This thread is certainly helping answer that question in part. 

[tpe]

I had sometimes wondered (not often because I'm Jack-centric and love every single thing about him, so thinking it feels like betrayal) why he didn't take the initiative to leave Lureen, move closer to Ennis so that they could be together more often.  We acknowledge that Ennis could have moved but didn't, wondered what stopped Jack from moving closer.  This thread is certainly helping answer that question in part. 

I have wondered about this myself.  I had thought that Ennis must have made clear to him (in the "It could be like this always" scene) that he had his own life in Riveroton, and would not be willing to jeopardize all that by more frequent meetings.  As to the frequency of those meetings, it was clear that Ennis called the shots.  Had Ennis been willing to meet more often, I am sure jack would have done something more drastic like move closer to Riverton.

Then again, Jack also appreciated the stability of his own life in Texas.   Without any additional incentive coming from Ennis, he would be loathe to leave all that.

[stacp]

I had sometimes wondered (not often because I'm Jack-centric and love every single thing about him, so thinking it feels like betrayal) why he didn't take the initiative to leave Lureen, move closer to Ennis so that they could be together more often.  We acknowledge that Ennis could have moved but didn't, wondered what stopped Jack from moving closer.  This thread is certainly helping answer that question in part. 

I've thought about that one, too.  I think Jack knew of Ennis' "low startle point."  He knew Ennis had to carry on their relationship at arm's length.  If Jack would've moved closer to Riverton (and I bet he would've if given the okay sign), Ennis would've "freaked out" and become withdrawn and paranoid that folks would figure them out.  Just look at the way Ennis reacted after the divorce scene when Jack told him about asking 10 different people in Riverton where Ennis had moved to.  Ennis is paranoid and nervous, glancing at that white truck passing, hoping no one is watching.  So, I think Jack knew he had to play by Ennis' rules, live far away, and only see him once in a while in the middle of nowhere.  A short leash indeed. :'(

[MississaugaRed]

All very good reasons, including the stability of his marriage and life in Texas, as to why Jack didn't leave Lureen to try to force a closer bond with Ennis.  Thank you!   

Really thought it only fair, if we're citing poor Ennis as the wall that kept them apart all those years, that we also acknowledge that Jack did have it in his power to make changes too, and didn't.  Regardless of all the risks, and every roadblock Ennis would have thrown up and his "low startle point", there was that option by Jack to stir things up for the chance of a better life.  He didn't take it (for all the reasons listed and more) so both he and Ennis I think have to carry the burden of where their relationship ended up.

Although, as you all say, knowing the likely reaction he would have gotten from Ennis if he'd divorced Lureen just to so he could be with Ennis more, no wonder he just let it be. 

This might also have been a security blanket as far as Ennis was concerned.  If Jack was still going through the same-old same-old in Texas, then there was no need to worry about anything changing between  the two of them, either.  Ennis could still count on seeing Jack, those few weeks a year he allowed himself to be happy.

[tpe]

I do think the reference to a "low startle point" is indeed very apt for Ennis.

I don't think it is really about blaming any of the characters for the separation.   How could Ennis have helped it?  It was in his nature.  It is on this tragic "flaw" that the entire story is built -- it propels the story on to its inevitable and heartbreaking conclusion.

[MississaugaRed]

I do think the reference to a "low startle point" is indeed very apt for Ennis.

I don't think it is really about blaming any of the characters for the separation.   How could Ennis have helped it?  It was in his nature.  It is on this tragic "flaw" that the entire story is built -- it propels the story on to its inevitable and heartbreaking conclusion.

Agreed.  There is no "blaming".  Just some of the reasons were Ennis's; some were Jack's.

[tpe]

I do think the reference to a "low startle point" is indeed very apt for Ennis.

I don't think it is really about blaming any of the characters for the separation.   How could Ennis have helped it?  It was in his nature.  It is on this tragic "flaw"that the entire story is build -- it propels the story on to its inevitable and heartbreaking conclusion.

Agreed.  There is no "blaming".  Just some of the reasons were Ennis's; some were Jack's.

I shall be a bit OOT here, but yes: we love them most especially, most dearly, most deeply, BECAUSE of their flaws. 

[Rosie]

I agree with all the reasons above about why Jack didn't move closer to Ennis. I do think that it would have jeopardized his relationship with Ennis and he knew that. What would he really have achieved? Also he would have probably had to take the same type of work as Ennis to enable him to be available for his trips. ( He could have gotten another salesman job, but I think it might have been unlikely, even if he did, he would still be travelling around and have the same problem about holiday time). I think that getting this type of work would have been hard particularly towards the end when as we have all more or less agreed on different posts that that type of temporary farm work must have been drying up by the late 70/80's. (One of the reasons that Ennis cannot make August in their last meeting). They would have been going for the same jobs and Ennis would hardly have wanted Jack working with him for lots of reasons not least they would NEVER be able to get the same time off. Going back to Lightning Flats seems to be only attractive to Jack if he can take someone with him and build a cabin for them to live in. The way his dad was, he hardly wanted to live with him! His relationship with Lureen seems to be respectful and civil at the very least and he does have his relationship with his son who he must love and be loved by. I know that he would leave him behind if Ennis said they would live together but maybe they are the only circumstances he would be voluntarily parted from his son. He's  trying to teach his son to treat Lureen with respect, (look at the Thanksgiving scene where he tells  bobby to eat the meal his mother has spent hours preparing and only then can he watch the TV) and he seems to be the one who has the most time for the boy, so I think that as said before the stability of his own life, with better income  (Probably) and more freedom to take time off when Ennis was available along with more time to spend with and on his son were  strong reasons for Jack to stay married to Lureen. So in some ways staying with Lureen made it easier to have a relationship with Ennis.

[tpe]

Perhaps I had not accounted for the obvious: that Ennis figures somehow in why Jack and Lureen stayed together for so long?  Is this too obvious, or too far-fetched?

Thanks Rosie and MississaugaRed.  Thanks everyone for all the insights.  I still learn something about Ennis and Jack everyday...

[welshwitch]

There's a lot in the idea that Jack doesn't want to rock the boat, as it were. People like the accustmed, the familiar; they'd kept " this thing" going for many years despite all the obstacles. Ennis had said their only meetings would have to be " way the hell out in the middelof nowhere" so there would be no point in Jack's being anywhere other than where he was. Jack also has materially a great deal more than Ennis to give up, and no motivation to do so; you don't give up something that's beccome habitual unless there's something worth giving it up for.

[MississaugaRed]

Sometimes you have to give up something in order to gain something better.

But you're right, welchwitch, especially after the divorce misunderstanding with Ennis, it would have been clear to Jack that Ennis wasn't going to be pushed out of all that was familiar to him.  No incentative for Jack to do any different.  As long as he could still stand to be around Lureen, spend time with his boy, avoid LD (or kick his a** into next week!) no reason to move on.  And there are the material benefits ...

Could be that marriage was also a nice "beard" for Jack, no pressure to do more than he had to in it at the end, a mask to hide his affair with Ennis (or others ...  don't hurt me for that! ).  Still trying to pass as a happily married family man, maybe?  Although in the end he wasn't discrete enough and his marriage wasn't cover enough to keep him safe.  Pardon me for taking us down rocky roads.

[welshwitch]

I think you're right. By the time the movie ends we're into the eighties, so he's had a long time to get into a familiar situation in Childress. If the Mexico trip was his first foray into that sort of situation, it might well be that he was much more aware of things than he had been as a young man, and could see the benefits of being seen as a regular guy with a wife and son and macho sort of job. Lureen's or the Newsome money also allowed him to go off for what musy have been quite extended periods - if he meets Ennis twice or three times a year and then goes to see his parents ( another useful smokescreen for the people in Texas?) he must have been away for some weeks over a year.

[stacp]

Sometimes you have to give up something in order to gain something better.

But you're right, welchwitch, especially after the divorce misunderstanding with Ennis, it would have been clear to Jack that Ennis wasn't going to be pushed out of all that was familiar to him.  No incentative for Jack to do any different.  As long as he could still stand to be around Lureen, spend time with his boy, avoid LD (or kick his a** into next week!) no reason to move on.  And there are the material benefits ...

Could be that marriage was also a nice "beard" for Jack, no pressure to do more than he had to in it at the end, a mask to hide his affair with Ennis (or others ...  don't hurt me for that! ).  Still trying to pass as a happily married family man, maybe?  Although in the end he wasn't discrete enough and his marriage wasn't cover enough to keep him safe.  Pardon me for taking us down rocky roads.

Great insights, everyone.  I absolutely think Jack used his marriage to Luren as a beard for all his affairs later in his life.  I like to think he didn't start messing around with other guys until after Ennis' divorce, but that may be wishful thinking.  Hell, after Ennis turned Jack away like that, I wanted to get Jack a hooker myself!  But, Jack wasn't stupid.  He knew he couldn't openly be who he was, e.g., a gay man lving in small town Texas.  So I'm sure he stayed married partly for appearances.  I hope I'm not painting Jack out to be shallow here.  I don't mean to.  I love me some Jack Twist, flaws and all.

[MississaugaRed]

snip .. I like to think he didn't start messing around with other guys until after Ennis' divorce, but that may be wishful thinking. ...snip

If so, stacp, then I'm a wishful thinker myself.

I, too, choose to believe that in the time between the reunion and the Ennis's divorce, Jack was faithful to Ennis.  Except with Lureen, and it seems the guys didn't count their wives against each other.

Now what does it say, I wonder, that I am more concerned about Jack and Ennis being true to each other than about either man being faithful to the women they married?? I'm usually pretty adamant about the big-bad factor in adultery, can't find it in the least romantic or forgivable in stories about straight couples.  Yet it doesn't throw up any red flags to me here when Jack & Ennis cheat on their wives with each other.  Is this a huge double-standard, that I can understand and forgive them this in a way I can't when someone is cheating in a straight marriage?

Maybe because it's so obvious to us that these marriages are just wrong?  And what Jack & Ennis have together is so right?  Or because there just would never have been doors open to them to be together anyway, regardless if they were both unmarried?  So figure why not stay married as long as their wives could put up with them, take on some of the responsibilities men were expected to in that time and place??  Peer expectation as a reason to stay married.

can opened .... worms everywhere ....   

[stacp]

snip .. I like to think he didn't start messing around with other guys until after Ennis' divorce, but that may be wishful thinking. ...snip

If so, stacp, then I'm a wishful thinker myself.

I, too, choose to believe that in the time between the reunion and the Ennis's divorce, Jack was faithful to Ennis.  Except with Lureen, and it seems the guys didn't count their wives against each other.

Now what does it say, I wonder, that I am more concerned about Jack and Ennis being true to each other than about either man being faithful to the women they married?? I'm usually pretty adamant about the big-bad factor in adultery, can't find it in the least romantic or forgivable in stories about straight couples.  Yet it doesn't throw up any red flags to me here when Jack & Ennis cheat on their wives with each other.  Is this a huge double-standard, that I can understand and forgive them this in a way I can't when someone is cheating in a straight marriage?

Maybe because it's so obvious to us that these marriages are just wrong?  And what Jack & Ennis have together is so right?  Or because there just would never have been doors open to them to be together anyway, regardless if they were both unmarried?  So figure why not stay married as long as their wives could put up with them, take on some of the responsibilities men were expected to in that time and place??  Peer expectation as a reason to stay married.

can opened .... worms everywhere ....   

I feel the same.  As a straight, married, women with two small kids, you'd think I'd be most sympathetic with Lureen and especially Alma.  Well, it took me many viewings of the movie to feel anything for these women (all right, I deserve a couple of rocks thrown at me).  I just didn't want anyone to impede the love/relationship of Jack and Ennis. Then, of course, I realized the biggest obstacle to the J/E relationship was Jack and Ennis themselves (not to mention society).  I just so wanted these two to be together.  You're right Miss, it just felt so right between them; they belonged together.  I guess I'm a romantic dreamer at heart.   I do feel, though, the both Jack and Ennis cheated on their wives (I've heard the argument otherwise).  But, somehow, maybe because of the times and circumstances of their lives, I can forgive them.  I have a harder time wtih Jack's "infedelity" with other men than I do with him cheating on Lureen.  Go figure!   

[MississaugaRed]

 I do feel, though, the both Jack and Ennis cheated on their wives (I've heard the argument otherwise).  But, somehow, maybe because of the times and circumstances of their lives, I can forgive them. EXACTLY!!   I have a harder time wtih Jack's "infidelity" with other men than I do with him cheating on Lureen.  Go figure!   

I already gone and figured! 

It would be a toss up, too, between who would have been more possessive of Jack ... Ennis or Lureen.  We know Ennis lost it when he suspected that Jack had seen other men.  Would Lureen have been more composed?  In her fiery youth, I can see her giving Jack hell if she suspected him of cheating on her. 

In those later years though ... possible reason #124 why they stayed married so long - maybe since Lureen no longer had the energy to care about what Jack did away from her (or was too afraid of what she'd find out!), Jack could use that blind eye she was turning to his best advantage.  To get the time to see Ennis without taking a lot of grief over his time away from Texas. 

And Ennis would be less likely to ever suspect Jack of being with someone else if he stayed married.  Ennis, being used to rancher's hours, might not be able to imagine Jack finding time to carry on an affair with more than one person while having to work and do the marriage thing to boot.   

[NoReins]

snip .. I like to think he didn't start messing around with other guys until after Ennis' divorce, but that may be wishful thinking. ...snip

If so, stacp, then I'm a wishful thinker myself.

I, too, choose to believe that in the time between the reunion and the Ennis's divorce, Jack was faithful to Ennis.  Except with Lureen, and it seems the guys didn't count their wives against each other.

Now what does it say, I wonder, that I am more concerned about Jack and Ennis being true to each other than about either man being faithful to the women they married?? I'm usually pretty adamant about the big-bad factor in adultery, can't find it in the least romantic or forgivable in stories about straight couples.  Yet it doesn't throw up any red flags to me here when Jack & Ennis cheat on their wives with each other.  Is this a huge double-standard, that I can understand and forgive them this in a way I can't when someone is cheating in a straight marriage?

Maybe because it's so obvious to us that these marriages are just wrong?  And what Jack & Ennis have together is so right?  Or because there just would never have been doors open to them to be together anyway, regardless if they were both unmarried?  So figure why not stay married as long as their wives could put up with them, take on some of the responsibilities men were expected to in that time and place??  Peer expectation as a reason to stay married.

can opened .... worms everywhere ....   

I think that's it, MissRed. I feel, like you, that people cheating in a straight marriage is unforgiveable - maybe because there's nothing stopping these people from divorcing and going to be with the person they want to be with. But for Jack and Ennis that was never the case. Even if they were both divorced, or if they'd never married in the first place, there were still numerous things stopping them being together (Ennis's fear of it for starters but also society and even, perhaps, the law?) Maybe it's the fact that we all believe these barriers to be so wrong that makes us feel nothing but sympathy for Ennis and Jack's situation....if the barriers weren't there then no-one would have got hurt.

Have to say though - you're pretty good with a can opener

[MississaugaRed]

I think that's it, MissRed. I feel, like you, that people cheating in a straight marriage is unforgiveable - maybe because there's nothing stopping these people from divorcing and going to be with the person they want to be with. But for Jack and Ennis that was never the case. Even if they were both divorced, or if they'd never married in the first place, there were still numerous things stopping them being together (Ennis's fear of it for starters but also society and even, perhaps, the law?) Maybe it's the fact that we all believe these barriers to be so wrong that makes us feel nothing but sympathy for Ennis and Jack's situation....if the barriers weren't there then no-one would have got hurt.

Have to say though - you're pretty good with a can opener

      So my cats tell me ....    

Good point, too, about the law ... wonder what that would have been in Wyoming or Texas in the 60's through 80's?  That would scare you into staying married, sure as shooting ... 

[jesseanne21]

I think that's it, MissRed. I feel, like you, that people cheating in a straight marriage is unforgiveable - maybe because there's nothing stopping these people from divorcing and going to be with the person they want to be with. But for Jack and Ennis that was never the case. Even if they were both divorced, or if they'd never married in the first place, there were still numerous things stopping them being together (Ennis's fear of it for starters but also society and even, perhaps, the law?) Maybe it's the fact that we all believe these barriers to be so wrong that makes us feel nothing but sympathy for Ennis and Jack's situation....if the barriers weren't there then no-one would have got hurt.

Have to say though - you're pretty good with a can opener

      So my cats tell me ....    

Good point, too, about the law ... wonder what that would have been in Wyoming or Texas in the 60's through 80's?  That would scare you into staying married, sure as shooting ... 

The US Supreme Court Ruled that sodomy laws (i.e., homosexuality) was unconstitutional on June 26, 2003.

In Wyoming in 1963 sodomy (between man/woman and/or man/man) was AGAINST THE LAW and punishable by fines and/or imprisonment.  The Wyoming law against sodomy was repealed in 1977.

[welshwitch]

Strikes me as ironic that they both come from Wyoming, which has always been liberal-minded - didn't it give women the vote early on? So it's more attitudes than the legal status that conditions particularly Ennis; Jack never has much regard for laws and rules, except when they benefit him - eg he's prepard to shoot a sheep but he copmplains about Aguiirre having no right to make him sleep up on the mountain with the sheep. And neither of them ever invokes legal or religious obstacles.

[Patriot1]

Jake gave an opinion on the relationship between Jack and Lureen, during an interview program I saw on youtube a while back -- he felt that there is love between Jack and Lureen, not the physical kind, but it is real nonetheless.  I see that as more of a "respect for each other" type of love.

Could I have missed this interview, or had I just forgotten.  Thanks dirtbiker, for bringing this up.  This is jake's interpretation of course, but it means a lot to me at least...

Well, TPE, it may mean a whole lot more to you when I tell you that I do not believe that thought/opinion came from Jake's own head.  I believe Jake was parroting what he was told by Ang Lee. He is the one, after all, that tells the story as he sees it.  Jake probably picked it up during one of the many prep sessions as the movie was being made.

All the people involved in the making of a movie are often interviewed separately. It would be nice if they all agreed on what the movie was about during these interviews. So, what is the best way to do that, state what the director (the story teller) said it is. Focus on that one person and everyone will be telling the same story.

So, Jakes comment probably came from the director himself.

[tpe]

Jake gave an opinion on the relationship between Jack and Lureen, during an interview program I saw on youtube a while back -- he felt that there is love between Jack and Lureen, not the physical kind, but it is real nonetheless.  I see that as more of a "respect for each other" type of love.

Could I have missed this interview, or had I just forgotten.  Thanks dirtbiker, for bringing this up.  This is jake's interpretation of course, but it means a lot to me at least...

Well, TPE, it may mean a whole lot more to you when I tell you that I do not believe that thought/opinion came from Jake's own head.  I believe Jake was parroting what he was told by Ang Lee. He is the one, after all, that tells the story as he sees it.  Jake probably picked it up during one of the many prep sessions as the movie was being made.

All the people involved in the making of a movie are often interviewed separately. It would be nice if they all agreed on what the movie was about during these interviews. So, what is the best way to do that, state what the director (the story teller) said it is. Focus on that one person and everyone will be telling the same story.

So, Jakes comment probably came from the director himself.

This may very well be, but it is not always as simple as that, I suspect.

For instance, Jake was the one who gave that "infamous" comment about Ennis and Jack being "straight".  This is in direct contradiction to Ang Lee's statement that Ennis and Jack were gay.

You remember the old game where a message gets relayed through many people and the first and last forms of the message are compared in the end?  Invariably, the final message is quite different from the original.

In transmitting an idea, it invariably gets modified ever so slightly by the vehicle who transmits it.   That is what makes the human mind so interesting...

[tpe]

Jake gave an opinion on the relationship between Jack and Lureen, during an interview program I saw on youtube a while back -- he felt that there is love between Jack and Lureen, not the physical kind, but it is real nonetheless.  I see that as more of a "respect for each other" type of love.

Could I have missed this interview, or had I just forgotten.  Thanks dirtbiker, for bringing this up.  This is jake's interpretation of course, but it means a lot to me at least...

Well, TPE, it may mean a whole lot more to you when I tell you that I do not believe that thought/opinion came from Jake's own head.  I believe Jake was parroting what he was told by Ang Lee. He is the one, after all, that tells the story as he sees it.  Jake probably picked it up during one of the many prep sessions as the movie was being made.

All the people involved in the making of a movie are often interviewed separately. It would be nice if they all agreed on what the movie was about during these interviews. So, what is the best way to do that, state what the director (the story teller) said it is. Focus on that one person and everyone will be telling the same story.

So, Jakes comment probably came from the director himself.

This may very well be, but it is not always as simple as that, I suspect.

For instance, Jake was the one who gave that "infamous" comment about Ennis and Jack being "straight".  This is in direct contradiction to Ang Lee's statement that Ennis and Jack were gay.

You remember the old game where a message gets relayed through many people and the first and last forms of the message are compared in the end?  Invariably, the final message is quite different from the original.

In transmitting an idea, it invariably gets modified ever so slightly by the vehicle who transmits it.   That is what makes the human mind so interesting...

Sorry if a bit OOT. 

[Patriot1]

Well, TPE, it may mean a whole lot more to you when I tell you that I do not believe that thought/opinion came from Jake's own head.  I believe Jake was parroting what he was told by Ang Lee. He is the one, after all, that tells the story as he sees it.  Jake probably picked it up during one of the many prep sessions as the movie was being made.

All the people involved in the making of a movie are often interviewed separately. It would be nice if they all agreed on what the movie was about during these interviews. So, what is the best way to do that, state what the director (the story teller) said it is. Focus on that one person and everyone will be telling the same story.

So, Jakes comment probably came from the director himself.

This may very well be, but it is not always as simple as that, I suspect.

For instance, Jake was the one who gave that "infamous" comment about Ennis and Jack being "straight".  This is in direct contradiction to Ang Lee's statement that Ennis and Jack were gay.

You remember the old game where a message gets relayed through many people and the first and last forms of the message are compared in the end?  Invariably, the final message is quite different from the original.

In transmitting an idea, it invariably gets modified ever so slightly by the vehicle who transmits it.   That is what makes the human mind so interesting...

I don't recall Jake ever saying that. Do you remember what interview it was? If Jake made that statement he was so far off track. Jack initiated the sex with Ennis the first night, the second night it is so clear he is doing the leading, it was he that went to Mexico and approached Jimbo, Jack was so obviously Bi at a minimum and probably gay that I can't imagine what Jake was thinking if he actually said that both boys were straight.

[MississaugaRed]

For instance, Jake was the one who gave that "infamous" comment about Ennis and Jack being "straight".  This is in direct contradiction to Ang Lee's statement that Ennis and Jack were gay.

I don't recall Jake ever saying that. Do you remember what interview it was?

Patriot1, I believe the comment tpe is referring to may have been part of an article in Details magazine last December.  Being a print media quote, there could quite possibly have been a discrepancy between the content/context of the quote as printed and what Jake actually meant ... a lot of celebrities are leery of giving print interviews these days, too easy for their words to get misconstrued or given a spin they didn't necessarily mean ... I've given him the benefit of the doubt on this one, myself, 'cause as you say it is so far off the mark of his other interviews and his actions in the film as Jack  ..    

sorry if that's    but I do agree with you absolutely that there can be no question about Jack's preferences sexually speaking.

[tpe]

Sorry to be a bit OOT, but yes, I think Gyllenhaal tried a bit too hard to make a subtle point -- something that was misconstrued in print.  I remember Ang Lee being told in an interview about this and he said something like they were gay as far as he was concerned.

To go back to topic, Jack's sexuality (and Ennis's for that matter) complicates his marriage to Lureen in so many ways.  I can accept that one possibility was for the marriage to act as a sort of "safe" harbour for Jack -- giving him needed stability in his 20-year odyssey with the man he truly loved.

 

[welshwitch]

We're so influenced by the romantic notion of love and marriage going together too, yet in many societies and periods marriage as a convenient economic arrangement has been the norm. It's perfectly possible to see Jack's marriage to Lureen as based on an initial attraction reinforced by Jack's need for fionancial stabiity - her father's having money is the first thing he knows about her - and her desire for a handsome young man - that desire later turning to familiarity and custom while Jack's deepest emotions are engaged elsewhere.