Topic: Meaning of "once burned"

[dirtbiker]

OK Brokie experts.... What do you all think Ennis meant when he said "once burned..." to Alma's suggestion that he should get married again.  It seems a bit odd that she would suggest marriage again when she knows full well his fondness for his "fishing buddy", Jack.  Did she want him to be miserable again married to another woman only to end in the same fate?  Or is it just major denial on her part on what she saw that fateful day by the stairs?  And is Ennis blaming Alma for the divorce when he said that?   

[tpe]

I'll give a simplistic approach. 

I do think Alma was still mindful that Ennis would appear to conform with what society expected.  After all, Ennis was the father of her children, so that anything bad pinned to his character would reflect on them, and ultimately her.  Perhaps she still had some regard for him and just wanted him to be "safe".

"Once burned" to me signifies that marriage left a bad taste in his mouth.  Indirectly, this does blame Alma, in a way.

JUst a few thoughts...

[tpe]

I should also say that perhaps Alma was genuinely worried about Ennis living alone, lonely and without anyone to look after him...

[scribe]

Ennis' reply also provides a good alibi for not getting married again - he's been so hurt by his first marriage that he couldn't think of going through it again.  Nothing to do with the fact that he's actually realised that he loves another man - but unfair on Alma I would agree.

[Patriot1]

OK Brokie experts.... What do you all think Ennis meant when he said "once burned..." to Alma's suggestion that he should get married again.  It seems a bit odd that she would suggest marriage again when she knows full well his fondness for his "fishing buddy", Jack.  Did she want him to be miserable again married to another woman only to end in the same fate?  Or is it just major denial on her part on what she saw that fateful day by the stairs?  And is Ennis blaming Alma for the divorce when he said that?    :-

All through Thanksgiving dinner you could see Alma was not happy Ennis was there. The only reason he was there was because of the kids.

In the kitchen, when Alma suggested he get married again, I think she was suggesting he get his own family and to leave hers alone.

I think Ennis took no blame for the divorce. He was the innocent and wronged party. Of course he didn't realize Alma had seen him and Jack together. So when he said, "Once burned." he was putting all the blame onto Alma for divorcing him. He was, after all a good father to his kids. He put food on the table, clothes on their backs, worked hard.

So, not knowing what Alma knew he was just going along with the flow and blaming Alma for the divorce. It was a thoughtless and cruel thing for him to say in any case.

[CrimsonSky]

I think Alma still feels partly responsible for Ennis,as it was her who instigated the divorce, but I don't think she wanted that responsibility, so him re-marrying would enable them both to move on properly, and she wouldn't have to invite him round for Thanksgiving any more. I find the scene round the dinner table really uncomfortable to watch, there's a lot of tension in the atmosphere,it must have been seriously weird for Alma, sitting at the dinner table with her ex, and her current husband.So I think Alma would've liked him to find someone else, just so she didn't feel she had to take care of him anymore.

As for Ennis's "once burned..." comment, it certainly sounds like he's blaming Alma for the divorce, but I don't think he means it to come across that way, but what else can he say? He can't say that there's no point in him marying again because it wouldn't work, cause that would just invite the question from Alma as to why. I think he's just trying to avoid the issue, by saying as little as possible, with what to him is probably just a throwaway line, but of course Alma, knowing what she knows, takes it personally, and that's why she can't hide any longer that she knows about Jack. Just my opinion

[LuvJackNasty]

I think it was her way of indirectly finding out if he was serious about Jack or a way to bring up Jack-prying if you will. If he's alone and not serious about another woman then that sort of confirms for her that he is gay. I never liked the once burned comment- it's his defense mechanism. Just as he gets sarcastic with Jack when Jack suggests him moving that is his way of turning the conversation into something else- I certainly don't think he was expecting what he heard that's for sure.

[welshwitch]

I took "Once burned" to be the equivalent of " once bitten, twice shy" and thought that once underlying meaning could be, apart from the obvious one that marriage to alma hadn't made him happy, that he was still making tho child-support payments and didn't need any more finanancial responsibilities.

I'm sure Alma would like him to marry again, since he'd be off her conscience - she seems to feel a sense of responsibility for him - and woul if re-married look more like what her conventional mind told her a man should be - married, settled, etc. I also wonder if, given the way Ennis lives, she feels that she might to some degree be blamed for that - the implication being that supporting the girls has impoverished him.

Still, as she saw the reunion kiss, it seems a particularly crass thing to say unles she's trying to stir up some sort of reaction. Maybe  she wants to know, once and for all, if he really is gay, in which case she's be justified in having left him. Or maybe she's been bottling up her resentment and frustration with Ennis and it breaks out here, much as Ennis's bottled-up passion for Jack breaks out in the reunion kiss.

[tpe]

In the kitchen, when Alma suggested he get married again, I think she was suggesting he get his own family and to leave hers alone.

This is an interesting thought.  I had never thought of it this way.  It is certainly plausible, although I am not so sure what Alma's feelings are for her daughters with Ennis.  She weems a bit more remote to them comparwed to Ennis.  But she had custody, so I guess she did want them more for herself.

[tpe]

As for Ennis's "once burned..." comment, it certainly sounds like he's blaming Alma for the divorce, but I don't think he means it to come across that way, but what else can he say? He can't say that there's no point in him marying again because it wouldn't work, cause that would just invite the question from Alma as to why. I think he's just trying to avoid the issue, by saying as little as possible, with what to him is probably just a throwaway line, but of course Alma, knowing what she knows, takes it personally, and that's why she can't hide any longer that she knows about Jack. Just my opinion

Yes, I feel that I rather feel the same way.  Although I am not so sure if Ennis had Jack in mind when Alma initially suggested that he marry again.  Ennis seemed to have been genuinely caught off guard by Alma bringing Jack up...

[tpe]

I think it was her way of indirectly finding out if he was serious about Jack or a way to bring up Jack-prying if you will. If he's alone and not serious about another woman then that sort of confirms for her that he is gay. I never liked the once burned comment- it's his defense mechanism. Just as he gets sarcastic with Jack when Jack suggests him moving that is his way of turning the conversation into something else- I certainly don't think he was expecting what he heard that's for sure.

yes, he did look a bit perky and smug after he made the comment no?  I sensed a look of mild sarcasm...

[jesseanne21]

OK Brokie experts.... What do you all think Ennis meant when he said "once burned..." to Alma's suggestion that he should get married again.  It seems a bit odd that she would suggest marriage again when she knows full well his fondness for his "fishing buddy", Jack.  Did she want him to be miserable again married to another woman only to end in the same fate?  Or is it just major denial on her part on what she saw that fateful day by the stairs?  And is Ennis blaming Alma for the divorce when he said that?    :-

All through Thanksgiving dinner you could see Alma was not happy Ennis was there. The only reason he was there was because of the kids.

In the kitchen, when Alma suggested he get married again, I think she was suggesting he get his own family and to leave hers alone.

I think Ennis took no blame for the divorce. He was the innocent and wronged party. Of course he didn't realize Alma had seen him and Jack together. So when he said, "Once burned." he was putting all the blame onto Alma for divorcing him. He was, after all a good father to his kids. He put food on the table, clothes on their backs, worked hard.

So, not knowing what Alma knew he was just going along with the flow and blaming Alma for the divorce. It was a thoughtless and cruel thing for him to say in any case.

I agree with you, Patriot1.  Ennis did not take any blame for the divorce.  He did not know that Alma had witnessed the reunion embrace and he thought he had fooled her about Jack (Alma's comment, "Don't try to fool me anymore, Ennis.")  And, I think Ennis was truly puzzled as to why Alma divorced him. 

I think Ennis was surprised by Alma's suggestion and used the "Once burned" comment to try to  end the discussion. 

[lamusica]

This line always has bothered me, too.  It felt unfair of Ennis.  All  along, he has been pretty honest about Alma.  He wouldn't let Jack talk bad about her.  He knows none of this was her fault, as he said in the film.  Then with this comment about being once burned, it seems as if he is blaming her afterall.  I really doubt that he thought about his comment at all.  It's just a way to state that, having done something unpleasant once, you're not going to do it again any time soon. However, Alma may have intuited a hidden meaning of blame in the words.  That might be why she pursued the Jack issue immediately following Ennis' comment. She wanted to make sure Ennis knew the real problem behind the divorce.

[dalemidex]

I agree with a lot of the individual thoughts brought up here, but I come to some different conclusion.

Ennis took no blame and felt innocent in the divorce?  Ennis didn't really know why they divorced?

I don't think that Ennis knew Alma suspected the nature of his relationship with Jack.  But Ennis knew of plenty reasons for the divorce.

--Proulx speaks of the growing divide between them over the years -- no one or particular thing
--The grind of poverty is clear in the movie.  Alma has to work hard and yet they're still behind on the bills.
--Ennis refuses to look for better work
--Alma is clearly dissatisfied to sit home with the kids while Ennis mostly stays home and gets drunk except for his fishing trips
--"I'd have 'em if you'd support "em" is verbal castration


Personally I think that the poverty and neglect Alma felt were as big to Alma as the fishing trips.  Why?  It would be much easier for Alma to ignore or rationalize away or deny what happened on those trips.  She apparently did so for years.  The poverty, neglect and petty arguments they led to over the years was a day-in, day-out grind.  She could pretend Jack was a fluke because it was only real those few times per year Ennis went fishing, and she could even deny it then.  The poverty and drag of life with Ennis beat her down every single day.

Also, the story itself feeds us the divorce directly on the heels of the "I'd have 'em if you'd support 'em".  If it was Jack that was the cause of the divorce, we could have seen some conflict about the fishing trips somewhere near the divorce scene, but we don't.

I think the divorce was seen by Ennis as a big failure on his part, and being a sensitive, internalizing person with lots of rules, I bet he beat himself up over it.  We don't see that, but it seems to fit his personality.


So then what was with the "don't fool me no more Ennis" reply to the once-burned comment?

I don't see it so much as "here's the real reason I divorced you".  Rather I see it as Alma on-upping Ennis for the pointed "once burned" line. 

I think Ennis said "once burned" as more of a defensive cover for not marrying rather than meaning "I won't take the chance of getting another bitch like you".  However I think Alma took it just that way, and she came back to him with both barrels.  Asking about Jack was her way of hurting him back.  The  message of  "how dare you blame me when you were doing what you were doing" was definitely a part of it.  But I think it was more to be hurtful than to finally tell the truth about the divorce.

[welshwitch]

The ss also makes it clear that Ennis's particular sexual preferences were something Alma disliked ( although after the argument about having more children she also thought rather grimly that what he did didn't create babies anyway). Sexual incompatibility/dissatisfaction must have been part of the reason for her divorcing Ennis too; Monroe maybe came over as more normal, in her view.

[rane99]

I think Ennis was hurt when Alma divorced him.  This little dig is maybe a result of having to put up a happy face atr Thanksgiving for his kids sake.  How uncomfortable must it have been to have to sit there with the woman who divorced him and the new husband AND while thier bun in the oven... that doesnt excuse Ennis, but he was angry, I think.

[welshwitch]

The divorce also trapped him. He didn't have a home and family, but he had the pressure of paying for the girls. He didn't have his family as an excuse for not living with Jack, as Jack clearly expected he would after Ennis sent the message to say he ws "free". In a way that made it ll worse; there was more reason for Jack to expect things to change, even if he said nothing; it's evident that fater the divorce and Ennis's rejection he doesn't mention a future for them again. So Ennis had ended up with nothing, while Jack still has a wife, son, job and him, on occasions, and Alma had her new husband and soon a new baby.. No wonder Ennis thought he'd had a raw deal.

[Rønnaug]

I don't think once burned means putting hte blame on Alma. I think simply it means he don't want to be unhappy again   Unhappy and ot beeing able to just drop and leave, like he can with Jack. cause he could't drop and leave with Alma and the kids.

[Patriot1]

I don't think once burned means putting hte blame on Alma. I think simply it means he don't want to be unhappy again   Unhappy and ot beeing able to just drop and leave, like he can with Jack. cause he could't drop and leave with Alma and the kids.

I like your way of thinking Esmelily, but here in the USA "once burned" means that someone has hurt you and you are not going to give someone else the opportunity to do the same thing.

[Rønnaug]

we have the same saying Patriot1: Burned child shyes away from fire ...sounds awfull but same thing

[Patriot1]

we have the same saying Patriot1: Burned child shyes away from fire ...sounds awfull but same thing

My goodness, it does sound awful doesn't it!