Author Topic: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder  (Read 9851 times)

greenfrog

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Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« on: Aug 17, 2006, 10:10 PM »
In many of the key scenes, the camera only shows Ennis from behind his shoulder . . .

-The "You know I ain't queer" scene.

-When he breaks down during Jack's "could've had a life together" speech.
 
-When he reads DECEASED on the postcard.

-When he shuts the closet door at the end of the movie.

What does everyone think ?

Offline Patriot1

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #1 on: Aug 17, 2006, 10:56 PM »
[i
]In many of the key scenes, the camera only shows Ennis from behind his shoulder . . .[/i]

-The "You know I ain't queer" scene.

-When he breaks down during Jack's "could've had a life together" speech.
 
-When he reads DECEASED on the postcard.

-When he shuts the closet door at the end of the movie.

What does everyone think ?


WOW! That is an interesting observation!  I am not sure there is any meaning in it but it sure is interesting.

Tell you what...truth is, sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it...

Love is a force of nature.

greenfrog

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #2 on: Aug 17, 2006, 11:23 PM »
It almost seems (to me) that he is turning his back on the truth about himself.

He doesn't want to admit he's "queer".

He can't bring himself to have a life with Jack.

He ends up turning his back on the the most important place and person to him when closes the closet door and leaves.

Offline Rosie

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #3 on: Aug 18, 2006, 07:05 AM »
It almost seems (to me) that he is turning his back on the truth about himself.

He doesn't want to admit he's "queer".

He can't bring himself to have a life with Jack.

He ends up turning his back on the the most important place and person to him when closes the closet door and leaves.


Very good observations Greenfrog!
I also think that it's movie Ennis' way of not even letting us see him fully. Always hiding himself away.
Danny and me, Danny and me,  Danny and me and the sea,
Bobbing out of Pleasure Bay, the islands on our lee;
Spectacle, Georges, Gallops, the sun-wash on the brine
Castle Island where Skovo danced a bear-dance in bear-time.
The Golden Boy has chosen, I know what I will be
Danny and me, seanchai, Danny and me and the sea.

A Map of the Harbor Islands JG Hayes

Offline welshwitch

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #4 on: Aug 18, 2006, 07:18 AM »
It may also indicate his desire not to face up to things, eg his own nature and his relationship with Jack. He's filmed full-on to the camera at the end both times he holds the shirts - dos that indicate that he's at last being open with himslef?

Offline tpe

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #5 on: Aug 18, 2006, 07:28 AM »


Yes, this is an interesting observation.  Could it have been intentional?  They certainly seem to mirror each other.


Offline Rosie

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #6 on: Aug 18, 2006, 07:30 AM »
Yes, ww, I think we definitely have some symbolism going on here....
Danny and me, Danny and me,  Danny and me and the sea,
Bobbing out of Pleasure Bay, the islands on our lee;
Spectacle, Georges, Gallops, the sun-wash on the brine
Castle Island where Skovo danced a bear-dance in bear-time.
The Golden Boy has chosen, I know what I will be
Danny and me, seanchai, Danny and me and the sea.

A Map of the Harbor Islands JG Hayes

Offline welshwitch

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #7 on: Aug 18, 2006, 07:41 AM »
I love a nice bit of symbolism - even see symbolism in symbols....

Offline Rosie

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #8 on: Aug 18, 2006, 07:59 AM »
I love a nice bit of symbolism - even see symbolism in symbols....


 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Danny and me, Danny and me,  Danny and me and the sea,
Bobbing out of Pleasure Bay, the islands on our lee;
Spectacle, Georges, Gallops, the sun-wash on the brine
Castle Island where Skovo danced a bear-dance in bear-time.
The Golden Boy has chosen, I know what I will be
Danny and me, seanchai, Danny and me and the sea.

A Map of the Harbor Islands JG Hayes

Offline Koka

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #9 on: Aug 18, 2006, 09:34 AM »
It almost seems (to me) that he is turning his back on the truth about himself.

He doesn't want to admit he's "queer".

He can't bring himself to have a life with Jack.

He ends up turning his back on the the most important place and person to him when closes the closet door and leaves.


Very good observations Greenfrog!
I also think that it's movie Ennis' way of not even letting us see him fully. Always hiding himself away.

oh, a very good observation! and I agree with you on this Rosie!
Why should I be out of mind
because I am out of sight?
I am waiting for you,
for an interval,
somewhere very near,
just around the corner.
All is well.

Offline welshwitch

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #10 on: Aug 18, 2006, 02:24 PM »
It's a physical representation of the way Ennis is shut away - considering that he works in  the great outdoors we see a lot of him confined - in the alley, in the chapel, in the cabin, in the apartment, in th etrailer, even in the courthouse.

Offline welshwitch

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #11 on: Aug 18, 2006, 02:27 PM »
In fact now that I think of it, he's a living representation of the "Macbeth" quotation -

                 "I am cabinn'd, cribb'd, confin'd, bound in
                  To saucy doubts and fears."

That's Ennis.

Offline jesseanne21

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #12 on: Aug 18, 2006, 02:45 PM »
This a great observation, greenfrog.  I always thought the "over the shoulder" view was Ang Lee's way of keeping us (the viewer) guessing on Ennis'  true feelings. 

When someone turns their back on me I think they're cutting me off, but in Ennis' case, I think he uses it to protect himself.  I think his feelings sometimes overwhelm him and that's how he protects his feelings.

This is most powerful to me during the argument between Jack and Ennis.  Ennis has his back turned to Jack and Jack cannot see that Ennis is CRYING and tells Ennis "You're too much for me Ennis, you son of a whoreson b**ch."  He doesn't seem to think that Ennis is really listening to him.  It's only later in the scene that Jack realizes he had really gotten through to Ennis.

[they were] both high school dropout country boys with no prospects, brought up to hard work and privation, both rough-mannered, rough-spoken, inured to the stoic life.   

(BBM short story)

Offline tpe

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #13 on: Aug 18, 2006, 02:55 PM »
This is most powerful to me during the argument between Jack and Ennis.  Ennis has his back turned to Jack and Jack cannot see that Ennis is CRYING and tells Ennis "You're too much for me Ennis, you son of a whoreson b**ch."  He doesn't seem to think that Ennis is really listening to him.  It's only later in the scene that Jack realizes he had really gotten through to Ennis.

I also had this scene in mind.  Thanks jesseanne21, for sharing this.


Offline Koka

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #14 on: Aug 18, 2006, 05:32 PM »

This is most powerful to me during the argument between Jack and Ennis.  Ennis has his back turned to Jack and Jack cannot see that Ennis is CRYING and tells Ennis "You're too much for me Ennis, you son of a whoreson b**ch."  He doesn't seem to think that Ennis is really listening to him.  It's only later in the scene that Jack realizes he had really gotten through to Ennis.



OMG, you're right....I mean, I always sort of 'knew' that, but this is the very first time I see it put down in words.....wow!  %)
Why should I be out of mind
because I am out of sight?
I am waiting for you,
for an interval,
somewhere very near,
just around the corner.
All is well.

Offline LuvJackNasty

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #15 on: Aug 18, 2006, 05:33 PM »
Great thread Greenfrog!  O0 I love these observations!
“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one ~ Imagine- J. Lennon

Offline ksxks

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #16 on: Aug 18, 2006, 06:24 PM »
I love how the filming was so expressive of emotional and mood and personality.  Amazing and beautiful (and geared to keep us discussing for a long time to come...).  A wonderful topic/thread, Greenfrog.  But anyway, this post isn't only about Ennis, about the many times we don't see him straight on but from behind his shoulder.   it's about both of them.  In the thread about the "I ain't queer" talk on the hillside, this was talked about -- quotes below.

kathy

When Ennis says his "one shot thing" and "I ain't queer" lines, he is facing away from the camera he's effectively rendering himself "faceless" by maintaining this straight facade.This suggests to me he's in deep denial. Jack, in contrast, is shown full-face when he replies "nobody's business but ours" and "me neither" . His little facials tics suggest he's lying to keep in Ennis' good graces, but also suggesting that even in "dishonesty", Jack is more "open" than Ennis

and

Yes, the more I think about it, the more I'm impressed that Ang Lee chose to shoot this scene in this way.  It really tells us a lot about their relationship to one another: they can't yet face each other (or their growing love for one another), and they certainly can't make it public (as perhaps facing the camera would suggest), so they sit side-by-side, backs to the camera, barely able to look at one another.  They don't touch and speak only 25 words total.  Yet we understand--and share--the tension of their unexpressed longing.  As the sun goes down across from their mountain, so their attraction for one another grows.

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

greenfrog

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Re: Important symbolism of Ennis's shoulder
« Reply #17 on: Aug 18, 2006, 07:09 PM »
In fact now that I think of it, he's a living representation of the "Macbeth" quotation -

                 "I am cabinn'd, cribb'd, confin'd, bound in
                  To saucy doubts and fears."

That's Ennis.

Definately sounds like Ennis.  :\'(