Author Topic: All them THINGS that I don't know (Read 150686 times)

lacy8753 · « **Reply #60 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 10:24 PM »

Ennis clearly knows that Jack has been with other men-in Mexico. "...those things I dont know willl get you killed.." His jealousy was a huge admission of his love and posseveness. Jack tells him that he had gone to Mexico...that he couldnt live on one or two high altitude f**ks. Interestingly when Ennis says he's got a waitress, Jack says he's got a woman from a nearby ranch. Jack was only conveniently honest. It wasnt a WOMAN from a nearby ranch...

Mykey · « **Reply #61 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 10:28 PM »

Though never mentioned in the story or the screenplay, One of those THINGS that might get Jack killed might be AIDS (or exposing Ennis to AIDS)....considering the time frame....Just a thought..

francis.shim · « **Reply #62 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 10:51 PM »

Quote from: Mykey on Jan 31, 2006, 10:28 PM

Though never mentioned in the story or the screenplay, One of those THINGS that might get Jack killed might be AIDS (or exposing Ennis to AIDS)....considering the time frame....Just a thought..

Although you have a point and it is about the right time frame, I think if you take the context of the movie or Annie Proulx's original short story, Ennis is basically saying something like the following:

"Jack, don't tell me that you going to Mexico where homophobes would shoot you, because if you are I am so angry with you for jeopardizing your life that I would want to kill you!!!"

I realize that that is not something that Ennis would or could say, because as you can see it is a paradox: he will kill Jack if Jack is going somewhere that would kill him. Why?

... because he is jealous... not because he would kill Jack... and it is not really because of AIDS.

Jack and Ennis also live in fairly isolated areas and news of AIDS could easily have been bypassed due in part to homophobia again.

What do you think now?

Peace,
Frank

merry · « **Reply #63 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 02:23 AM »

Quote from: jimnick on Jan 19, 2006, 10:07 PM

Ennis is essentially saying: "Jack, you are only for me!"

Jim

You're right, he exactly says that, but in his own way... What I love in this scene is the fact that it is the first time that Ennis doesn't succeed in hiding his feelings. Jack makes him mad with love and consequently, mad with jealousy.

Merry

JerBear418720 · « **Reply #64 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 03:54 AM »

Annie Proulx tells us in her essay in BBM - Story to Screenplay that the underlying theme of the story is destructive rural homophobia.

Because this is Ennis' story, and because he believes that nameless and faceless (watch the attack scene again) homophobes killed Jack, that makes it real for him and, therefore, THAT IS the reality, regardless of what actually took place (we are deliberately left to wonder).

Both men, of course, are emotionally murdered by that same viciously negative force.

We're also not supposed to know what Ennis means at the end when he says "Jack, I swear". We could debate it all day, but I think it was meant to be Ennis' precious secret. Part of the beauty of BBM is something none of us is used to - threads of the story that remain unexplained. It makes total sense to me that an emormously private man like Ennis would hold parts of his own story in his heart and leave us puzzling.

I may be right, I may be wrong - only Annie knows for sure.

rabjr1 · « **Reply #65 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 11:48 AM »

Quote from: JerBear418720 on Feb 02, 2006, 03:54 AM

Annie Proulx tells us in her essay in BBM - Story to Screenplay that the underlying theme of the story is destructive rural homophobia.

Because this is Ennis' story, and because he believes that nameless and faceless (watch the attack scene again) homophobes killed Jack, that makes it real for him and, therefore, THAT IS the reality, regardless of what actually took place (we are deliberately left to wonder).

Both men, of course, are emotionally murdered by that same viciously negative force.

We're also not supposed to know what Ennis means at the end when he says "Jack, I swear". We could debate it all day, but I think it was meant to be Ennis' precious secret. Part of the beauty of BBM is something none of us is used to - threads of the story that remain unexplained. It makes total sense to me that an emormously private man like Ennis would hold parts of his own story in his heart and leave us puzzling.

I may be right, I may be wrong - only Annie knows for sure.

Ennis is extremely reticent, he does not have the extended vocabulary to put into words the emotions that he is feeling at this moment. He is so overwhelmed with griief he cannot find the words to express it. I mean, where would he begin? Where would anyone of us begin? They are trapped inside him? Maybe that is a good thing. Maybe keeping them trapped inside him he keeps Jack there also. Does time heal all wounds? Not this one, not for Ennis. It is a wound that will never completely heal. Maybe he doesn't want it to, if it heals will it go away? for good?

JerBear418720 · « **Reply #66 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 12:47 PM »

Quote from: rabjr1 on Feb 02, 2006, 11:48 AM

Quote from: JerBear418720 on Feb 02, 2006, 03:54 AM
Annie Proulx tells us in her essay in BBM - Story to Screenplay that the underlying theme of the story is destructive rural homophobia.

Because this is Ennis' story, and because he believes that nameless and faceless (watch the attack scene again) homophobes killed Jack, that makes it real for him and, therefore, THAT IS the reality, regardless of what actually took place (we are deliberately left to wonder).

Both men, of course, are emotionally murdered by that same viciously negative force.

We're also not supposed to know what Ennis means at the end when he says "Jack, I swear". We could debate it all day, but I think it was meant to be Ennis' precious secret. Part of the beauty of BBM is something none of us is used to - threads of the story that remain unexplained. It makes total sense to me that an emormously private man like Ennis would hold parts of his own story in his heart and leave us puzzling.

I may be right, I may be wrong - only Annie knows for sure.

Ennis is extremely reticent, he does not have the extended vocabulary to put into words the emotions that he is feeling at this moment. He is so overwhelmed with griief he cannot find the words to express it. I mean, where would he begin? Where would anyone of us begin? They are trapped inside him? Maybe that is a good thing. Maybe keeping them trapped inside him he keeps Jack there also. Does time heal all wounds? Not this one, not for Ennis. It is a wound that will never completely heal. Maybe he doesn't want it to, if it heals will it go away? for good?

So beautifully put, RAB! I think that Ennis' pain will lessen over time, but never go away - you're right, what lessens into a dull ache over time will be what helps Ennis keep Jack alive in his heart.

backtobrokeback · « **Reply #67 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 12:48 PM »

To address the original question, I have to say that at every viewing, I've been quite sure that "All them THINGS that I don't know" is a declaration of love. Since it's Ennis, that's about all we're going to get on the topic of love, but that was LOVE, way past simple anger and jealousy. He isn't able to say how he feels positively, so yeah, it's threatening, but notice that (in the film), Jack isn't particularly fearful - he goes right on tearing in to Ennis.

There's only one other place where Ennis reveals the depth of his love in words, and that's where I first start crying in the film, because it's crushingly sad, and yet the truth of his love comes right through (again, this the screenplay);

Jack: "for how long?"
Ennis: "long as we can ride it ... no reins on this one"

That is Ennis's promise of eternal love, expressed in the only way he knows how, AND with a nice touch: expressed in a rodeo metaphor that Jack would understand. One of the most beautiful lines in the movie, despite the denial of the "kid and calf" living together that came right before it. Basically, 'we can't be together, but we'll always stay together". :'( :'(

His outburst at the last fight they have is a mirror of this line. He gave his heart to Jack and he must know Jack's heart is his, no matter what else Jack has done or will do to stay sane when he's away from Ennis.

btb

Hermes1 · « **Reply #68 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 09:04 PM »

Quote from: backtobrokeback on Feb 02, 2006, 12:48 PM

To address the original question, I have to say that at every viewing, I've been quite sure that "All them THINGS that I don't know" is a declaration of love. Since it's Ennis, that's about all we're going to get on the topic of love, but that was LOVE, way past simple anger and jealousy. He isn't able to say how he feels positively, so yeah, it's threatening, but notice that (in the film), Jack isn't particularly fearful - he goes right on tearing in to Ennis.

There's only one other place where Ennis reveals the depth of his love in words, and that's where I first start crying in the film, because it's crushingly sad, and yet the truth of his love comes right through (again, this the screenplay);

Jack: "for how long?"
Ennis: "long as we can ride it ... no reins on this one"

That is Ennis's promise of eternal love, expressed in the only way he knows how, AND with a nice touch: expressed in a rodeo metaphor that Jack would understand. One of the most beautiful lines in the movie, despite the denial of the "kid and calf" living together that came right before it. Basically, 'we can't be together, but we'll always stay together". :'( :'(

His outburst at the last fight they have is a mirror of this line. He gave his heart to Jack and he must know Jack's heart is his, no matter what else Jack has done or will do to stay sane when he's away from Ennis.

btb

BTB-

This is SO true. I particularly remember Ennis's face when he walks up to Jack to point his finger at him and threaten "All them things I don't know..." Notice his face. He's not *really* angry. It's almost more of that kind of scrunched up angry look that a father would give his child to scare the child into NOT doing what he/she was not supposed to do. Jack stands up to him but with a little fear in his stance. Sorta worried about Ennis' statement but more to what Ennis' reaction might be to his response, "Hell yeah, I been to Mexico!."

There's a paternal side to Ennis but then that role is immediately reversed at the end of that scene when Ennis breaks down and says, "Well go ahead and leave me then." This part REALLY knocks me down and out every time because it so reveals Ennis being worn down by the deep commitment that he made to Jack to love him eternally but confounded at the same time by not being able to give Jack exactly what Jack wants. And then there's poor Jack being so naively hopeful (an earlier BBM rendezvous: "Maybe you need to get outta here and move to Texas?? (Jack's eyes beaming at the thought!)....God bless their poor sweet souls!!!!!

romeshvr · « **Reply #69 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 09:26 PM »

Quote from: JerBear418720 on Feb 02, 2006, 03:54 AM

Annie Proulx tells us in her essay in BBM - Story to Screenplay that the underlying theme of the story is destructive rural homophobia.

Because this is Ennis' story, and because he believes that nameless and faceless (watch the attack scene again) homophobes killed Jack, that makes it real for him and, therefore, THAT IS the reality, regardless of what actually took place (we are deliberately left to wonder).

Both men, of course, are emotionally murdered by that same viciously negative force.

We're also not supposed to know what Ennis means at the end when he says "Jack, I swear". We could debate it all day, but I think it was meant to be Ennis' precious secret. Part of the beauty of BBM is something none of us is used to - threads of the story that remain unexplained. It makes total sense to me that an emormously private man like Ennis would hold parts of his own story in his heart and leave us puzzling.

I may be right, I may be wrong - only Annie knows for sure.

JerBear...I love the way you think...This is amazing...I like the last paragraph especially.......more and more I watch the movie...the 'I swear...' mystery becomes not important.... I'm try to enjoy the story and the way movie unfolds... I'm finding out that lately...sometimes in life it is better not to know certain things...Thanks JerBear....

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #70 on:** Feb 03, 2006, 03:43 PM »

Quote from: jarwill-nc on Jan 23, 2006, 06:13 PM

Quote from: matt78 on Jan 19, 2006, 12:49 PM

Ennis: "I'm gonna tell you this one time, Jack f***in' Twist, an' I ain't foolin'. What I don't know - all them THINGS that I don't know - could get you killed if I should come to know them."

I too believe this was Ennis' way of expressing his hurt if he knew for sure that Jack had been with other men. When I saw this scene during my 2nd viewing I thought "Damn! He loves the hell outta this guy!"

I thought that too, expressing the love that might cause one of them to be harmed in some unnamed way.

tweric · « **Reply #71 on:** Feb 03, 2006, 09:27 PM »

I'm not sure if it's some scratches on the film, but when Ennis turned his head before he said "then why don't you.." after Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you", I think I saw a tear drop flying off Heath's left eye.....

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #72 on:** Feb 03, 2006, 09:39 PM »

I'm gonna have to buy two DVD's to make sure I catch it all, I will wear one out at least.

bnjmn3 · « **Reply #73 on:** Feb 03, 2006, 09:49 PM »

Quote from: tweric on Feb 03, 2006, 09:27 PM

I'm not sure if it's some scratches on the film, but when Ennis turned his head before he said "then why don't you.." after Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you", I think I saw a tear drop flying off Heath's left eye.....

Heath is a projectile crier for sure. Very powerful.

chameau · « **Reply #74 on:** Feb 03, 2006, 09:53 PM »

Quote from: bnjmn3 on Feb 03, 2006, 09:49 PM

Quote from: tweric on Feb 03, 2006, 09:27 PM
I'm not sure if it's some scratches on the film, but when Ennis turned his head before he said "then why don't you.." after Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you", I think I saw a tear drop flying off Heath's left eye.....

Heath is a projectile crier for sure. Very powerful.

Yes he is, did you noticed his tears at the divorce scene?

coguaro · « **Reply #75 on:** Feb 04, 2006, 04:53 AM »

Of course I saw all Ennis tears... this man is so plenty of repressed love..

coguaro

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #76 on:** Feb 04, 2006, 10:11 PM »

He need't be repressed if he just would have opened up for Jack...ARGH!

backtobrokeback · « **Reply #77 on:** Feb 05, 2006, 02:57 PM »

He did, as much as he could. But that's gonna nag you forever, CowboyCody. We can't reach in there and shake Ennis to his senses.

CherryCake · « **Reply #78 on:** Feb 05, 2006, 05:38 PM »

Quote from: tweric on Feb 03, 2006, 09:27 PM

I'm not sure if it's some scratches on the film, but when Ennis turned his head before he said "then why don't you.." after Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you", I think I saw a tear drop flying off Heath's left eye.....

I caught that too! Wow, huh.

*Froggy* · « **Reply #79 on:** Feb 05, 2006, 05:42 PM »

Quote from: CherryCake on Feb 05, 2006, 05:38 PM

Quote from: tweric on Feb 03, 2006, 09:27 PM
I'm not sure if it's some scratches on the film, but when Ennis turned his head before he said "then why don't you.." after Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you", I think I saw a tear drop flying off Heath's left eye.....

I caught that too! Wow, huh.

Me too!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

chameau · « **Reply #80 on:** Feb 05, 2006, 05:43 PM »

Quote from: frog123 on Feb 05, 2006, 05:42 PM

Quote from: CherryCake on Feb 05, 2006, 05:38 PM
Quote from: tweric on Feb 03, 2006, 09:27 PM
I'm not sure if it's some scratches on the film, but when Ennis turned his head before he said "then why don't you.." after Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you", I think I saw a tear drop flying off Heath's left eye.....

I caught that too! Wow, huh.

Me too!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

Me to!

What's wrong with me, still not crying!

bbmlover · « **Reply #81 on:** Feb 05, 2006, 05:47 PM »

Quote from: chameau on Feb 05, 2006, 05:43 PM

Quote from: frog123 on Feb 05, 2006, 05:42 PM
Quote from: CherryCake on Feb 05, 2006, 05:38 PM
Quote from: tweric on Feb 03, 2006, 09:27 PM
I'm not sure if it's some scratches on the film, but when Ennis turned his head before he said "then why don't you.." after Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you", I think I saw a tear drop flying off Heath's left eye.....

I caught that too! Wow, huh.

Me too!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

Me to!

What's wrong with me, still not crying!

I did not catch this..........needs another view.

chameau · « **Reply #82 on:** Feb 05, 2006, 06:22 PM »

Talking about Ennis tears

I'm craving for the Oscars night!

If Michelle wins ,will we see tears in Heath's eyes?

And vice versa indeed!

I bet the whole cast will got teary eyes if Ang gets it for best director.

Also best picture!

It's good to share dreams.

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #83 on:** Feb 05, 2006, 07:28 PM »

backtobrokeback - you just got me crying cowboy tears again with that one post.

backtobrokeback · « **Reply #84 on:** Feb 05, 2006, 07:43 PM »

My apologies. Not my intention. Sometimes things have to just be the way they are, and from that comes their significance, and our learning. crap, got myself crying now.

"And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much further than that. Let be, let be."

-backtobrokeback

(love love love your avatar, Cowboy Cody)

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #85 on:** Feb 05, 2006, 08:13 PM »

backtobrokeback, Now I've went and made you cry bro. Guess we both could use a shoulder tonight huh? Love your avatar as well, made me cry like a baby when that scene hit the screen.

The "Let be. Let be." is important in that sense, as he also says it one other time as well.

francis.shim · « **Reply #86 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 05:18 AM »

Saw the movie in Montreal and just got back...

The scene that tears my heart up is coming just after this episode...

It is when Ennis falls to his knees and Jack holds him... but both of them not knowing how to handle their situation... and then the flashback to the dozy embrace... Ennis in the flashback ends it by saying "I'll see you in the morning..." and rides off while Jack looks on lovingly... then the movie flashes to where Ennis drives off in his truck... leaving a older Jack still looking as his lover rides away...

Gawd, I am crying while I am typing this...

When I think about the "let be, let be..."... I can only imagine the suffering that Jack is going through but it is clear Ennis has it *NO EASIER*... he couldn't stand it either.

Damn!!! Damn!!! Damn!!!... I wanted to shout to everybody "Just let them be... Just let them be... they have suffered enough!!!", but I guess Annie Proulx had to show us what she has found to be an awful truth... homophobia does not let a love like theirs be! Damn it!!!

Peace,
Frank

rabjr1 · « **Reply #87 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 07:43 AM »

Quote from: chameau on Feb 05, 2006, 05:43 PM

Quote from: frog123 on Feb 05, 2006, 05:42 PM
Quote from: CherryCake on Feb 05, 2006, 05:38 PM
Quote from: tweric on Feb 03, 2006, 09:27 PM
I'm not sure if it's some scratches on the film, but when Ennis turned his head before he said "then why don't you.." after Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you", I think I saw a tear drop flying off Heath's left eye.....

I caught that too! Wow, huh.

Me too!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

Me to!

What's wrong with me, still not crying!

Knock down half a bottle of "Jack" hide the razor blades then finish the other half while listening the the sound track as you look through your photo album with pictures of people in your past that could have been your Ennis. Works for me.

OR 14 double mocha expressos and a gross of "Little Debbies" followed by a gallon of Haggen Daz rocky road ice cream. followed up by a double shot of insulin.

Cowboy Cody · « **Reply #88 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 09:47 AM »

There were times last night when I thought a shot of whiskey swilled straight from the bottle would be a good thing.

lowpro · « **Reply #89 on:** Feb 06, 2006, 12:29 PM »

Ennis: "I'm gonna tell you this one time, Jack f***in' Twist, an' I ain't foolin'. What I don't know - all them THINGS that I don't know - could get you killed if I should come to know them."

When I first saw BBM I was very intrigued with the exact wording of this line. It gets caught up in Ennis's back country manner of speaking (no insult intended - it is just his background and who he is). I was thrown off by Jack's response in which he thinks Ennis has said (paraphrased) 'If I find out, I'll kill you.' Having read a lot of comments and trying to imagine what's going on with Ennis I initially took the line from Ennis as a homophobic warning and concren for Jack that if the 'Island Man", Ennis Del Mar, came to know "them things", there were already going to be a helluva lot other people some of whom would not be very tolerant that would know as well and that could get Jack killed (if not already by the time the news gets to the isolated "island'). Ennis may be isolated but he does have a keen awareness (paranoia?) of what others observe. He may be very quiet but he is not blind.This awareness also comes to play vice-versa when the bikers show a complete disregard for Ennis and his family at the fireworks (More ways than one!). And also when he makes the comment to Cassie that he was probably not much fun.

What do you think?

lowpro

Author Topic: All them THINGS that I don't know (Read 150686 times)

JerBear418720

JerBear418720

romeshvr

tweric