Author Topic: This is a really important thought.  (Read 9061 times)

browneyes

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This is a really important thought.
« on: Sep 03, 2006, 07:32 PM »
This might be the last topic I post. But I have to post this. I think by Jack having sex with Randall and the prostitutes kept Jack alive enough. When you think about it, Ennis kept all his tension inside and never really released all he had bottled up inside. Which caused him to just shrivel up every day. I think since Jack was able to get some release it kept him alive until he saw Ennis. If he would've never done that he would've ended up like Ennis. Then their relationship would've really been hell. Not only that Randall and the prostitues reminded Jack just how much he missed Ennis and couldn't wait to see him. Like he said in the last meeting.

-This was just a thought that ended up in my head 

greenfrog

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #1 on: Sep 03, 2006, 07:38 PM »
Interesting post Browneyes.

I think that Jack went with prostitutes and Randall because, he was away from Ennis for so long and rarely got to see him, that he went with them to fill a void in his life (and heart) that only, really could filled when he was with Ennis.

I don't think he really wanted to be with them, but he almost seemed to have run out of options.  :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

browneyes

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #2 on: Sep 03, 2006, 07:45 PM »
I agree with you frog for the most part. When you think about it they weren't really in a committed relationship. They were just in love with each other and couldn't live unless they saw one another.
« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2006, 08:10 PM by browneyes »

greenfrog

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #3 on: Sep 03, 2006, 07:48 PM »
I agree with you frog for the most part. When you think about it they weren't really in a real relationship. They were just in love with each other and couldn't live unless they saw one another.

Hmmm  :s)

I could ask right now "what would define as a real relationship?", but I won't.

I do think however, that Jack was pushing for them to live together.

browneyes

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #4 on: Sep 03, 2006, 08:01 PM »
Of course Jack wanted to be with him. Because he wanted a life with Ennis, he wanted to see him more than a few times a year, he wanted to have a life where he won't have to live a lie and he could be who he is. Even in (most) long-distant relationships, they'll see each other more than a few times a year and call probably everyday, that definitely did not happen with Jack and Ennis. Even though I'm sure Jack would love speaking to Ennis everyday, I think if he got that much he would've never slept with other men. Just to hear Ennis' voice would've probably been enough.
« Last Edit: Sep 03, 2006, 08:11 PM by browneyes »

greenfrog

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #5 on: Sep 03, 2006, 08:10 PM »
*To tired to offer an opinion*.

Offline welshwitch

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #6 on: Sep 04, 2006, 11:43 AM »
They were in a committed relationship emotionally - just not physically, by which i mean that they mostly weren't in the same place at the same time, and therefore weren't in what you might call a constantly sexual relationship. this sounds as if every relationship that features sex does so all the time; not true, as many people will tell you. One of the reasons they may have had such good sex when they did meet was that it happened only intermittently. Jack is clearly more highly sexed than Ennis - i think that may be why he asks why in all this time Ennis hasn't married again - and is the sort of person who is prepared to make compromises - neither Randall not the Mexican is any more than a physical stop-gap, and both would have been forgotten , indeed never come into Jack's life, if Ennis had committed to Jack on a permanent basis.

Offline dalemidex

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #7 on: Sep 04, 2006, 08:49 PM »
Interesting discussion! 

I'm not sure that Jack necessarily had a higher libido than Ennis did.  I think Jack may havefound himself in the classic misdirection of seeking sex to fill a void of love.

When Jack says in the lake confrontation "you have no idea how bad it gets" I don't think he was speaking of a particular sexual act.  Is it possible?  Sure.  But I think he was talking about the love and affection of Ennis. 

As for Ennis, I tend to doubt it was that he had so much a lower "need" for it than Jack, but rather that he was so closed and emotionally backed-up that he had learned to squelch and deny his need for love and affection. 

greenfrog

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #8 on: Sep 04, 2006, 09:48 PM »
I think when he said "you have no idea how bad it gets" he was talking more about love and lonliness, rather than sex.

Their relationship had started out has being purely sexual but as time went by it became more than that (atleast for Jack) and he wanted to settled down with Ennis and spend the rest of their lives together.  :\'( :\'( :\'(

Offline tpe

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #9 on: Sep 05, 2006, 09:52 AM »

Wonderful discussion.

I think when he said "you have no idea how bad it gets" he was talking more about love and lonliness, rather than sex.

greenfrog, I think it true, what you have said here.

aimi15

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #10 on: Sep 05, 2006, 12:28 PM »
Great discussion. I also wonder if Jack seemed to have a higher libido because he had more of a sexual attraction towards Ennis from the start, whereas the spark for Ennis was the friendship?

I do tend to agree with the point made by dalemidex though, that Ennis' need was as great as Jack's, but not expressed as openly because of the way Ennis blocked his feelings, even after all those years of love and longing.

Still sad the way it gets me... :\'( :\'(

Offline tpe

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #11 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:27 PM »
I do tend to agree with the point made by dalemidex though, that Ennis' need was as great as Jack's, but not expressed as openly because of the way Ennis blocked his feelings, even after all those years of love and longing.

Still sad the way it gets me... :\'( :\'(

I think this is why for Ennis, the pain and final loss is ever greater. And yet he was so lucky to be so loved.  He loved equally, but did not have the power to fulfill it.

What is the missed point in the lesson of Earl and Rich?  The missed point was that he could not have envisioned that death pales when confronted by a lifetime shared in love.  When the end came for Earl, both he and Rich had the knowledge of that lifetime of love.  For Jake and Ennis, it was not to be.




Offline welshwitch

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #12 on: Sep 05, 2006, 03:41 PM »
If the reality of hell is that it's the absence of God, then for Jack hell is the absence of Ennis. That's why he drinks - escapism. Maybe that's why he goes to Mexico too, though I think that's also out of misery and a sort of desire for revenge or perhaps for confirmation that someone wants him if Ennis doesn't. If you're miserable enough sex from any source can be a sort of affirmation. About Randall I'm not so sure - he's the one who makes the running and the thought of someone who wants him, is prepared to say so and is available may have attracted Jack. It looks as if Randall is less guarded than Ennis, whose obvious terror of being seen with Jack is so evident in the scene after the divorce.For Jack this must tranlate as Ennis being afraid to take any risks for him and so not convinced that he's worth taking risks for. From Jack's perspective Ennis doesn't value being with him enough to take any risk to achieve it as a permanent state, doesn't want it enough. In fact by the lake confrontation scene he claims Ennis didn't want it at all.

From Ennis's viewpoint, of course, it's possible to argue that he values his relationship with Jack so highly that though he can't imagine a way of making it permanent nevertheless he's not prepared to compromise it with anyone else, male or female. He certainly has the chance with Cassie, but rejects it. So you could say that Ennis is perfectionist; having found the perfect partner, although he's male and therefore poses a problem, Ennis wants nothing else, nothing less.He may be as highly sexed as Jack ( though I don't think he is) but just better at repressing it and less able to express it with anyone else.
« Last Edit: Sep 16, 2006, 11:35 AM by welshwitch »

greenfrog

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #13 on: Sep 05, 2006, 08:57 PM »
Wow !!! That was some post Welshwitch.

Offline tpe

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Re: This is a really important thought.
« Reply #14 on: Sep 06, 2006, 07:29 AM »
Wow !!! That was some post Welshwitch.

I agree.  A wonderful post.