Topic: Jack's impression of Alma

[aintfoolin]

In the reunion scene Jack comes into the foyer of the apartment. His demeanor seems cautious , almost timid as if he knows that Alma knows something IMO.  then he sees her for the first time and the look on his face to me is one of  suprise and .....well I want to say disappointment but I'm not sure. Compared with his own wife Lureen, Alma looks downright dowdy. Is this what he expected Ennis wife to be? This is the person he is "competing with for Ennis. Then in a later scene, Jack says "you and Alma? that's a life? what did he mean by this? Did Jack look down on Alma. What does he learn about Ennis from Alma's demeanor? What does Jack really think of Alma? Please help me get inside Jack's head concernig this.

[tpe]

I suspect that Jack was more uncomfortable than anything else.  And I think that Jack did not even properly observe Alma's appearance, and he must have not cared for her even if she were stunningly beautiful.  To Jack, she was an outsider, but the fact that she was Ennis's wife most certainly made him uncomfortable, especially after the kiss.  Ennis and Jack both must have felt that something must have been showing after that kiss -- psychological, most likely. 

The kiss and what was to come were probably foremost in Jack's mind.  Was this the only time Jack and Alma ever met?  I suspect that this was the case.

 

[City Slickin' Cowboy]

I agree "uncomfortable" was Jack's likely state of mind while meeting Alma.  After all, Jack had just finished a very passionate kiss with her husband.  Since Jack knew that a lot more with Ennis was to follow, it's doubtful he could have mustered up any more than a few pleasantries that go with introductions.  Personally, if Alma had vented anymore radiation in Jack's direction, I don't think he would have noticed.

[jesseanne21]

In the reunion scene Jack comes into the foyer of the apartment. His demeanor seems cautious , almost timid as if he knows that Alma knows something IMO.  then he sees her for the first time and the look on his face to me is one of  suprise and .....well I want to say disappointment but I'm not sure. Compared with his own wife Lureen, Alma looks downright dowdy. Is this what he expected Ennis wife to be? This is the person he is "competing with for Ennis. Then in a later scene, Jack says "you and Alma? that's a life? what did he mean by this? Did Jack look down on Alma. What does he learn about Ennis from Alma's demeanor? What does Jack really think of Alma? Please help me get inside Jack's head concernig this.

"you and Alma? that's a life?   I also think Jack was thinking about Ennis' motel room comment "stuck with what I got" meaning stuck with Alma.  Also, Ennis said "I love my little girls" with no mention of Alma.

[welshwitch]

He seems less curious or interested than determined to get through the normal pleasantries as quickly as possible - but both he and Ennis are so emotional at this point that I doubt if either is thinking about Alma. I guess this is the only time Jack ever sees her; he doesn't really need to know much about her - just knowing what Ennis does for a living and seeing where they live would be enough to tell him Ennis hasn't married as well as he has, if he care, which I don't think he does.

The "You and Alma, that's a life?" comment seems to show contempt for Alma, or at least for the life Ennis leads with her, but I think that's less of Alma herself than for the fact of her existence, this small-town girl and her two children who are keeping Ennis away from him, or so it must seem to Jack at this point. It's not till later, when she's gone, that he realizes that's not true.

And anyway he knows Ennis and his "I'll stick to beans" attitude - Ennis would hardly be likely to marry a beauty queen or a socialite.

[aintfoolin]

Perhaps "uncomfortable " is a better word for the expressionJack was giving, but every since I saw this the first time I've wondered what was going through his mind, actually getting to meet the wife of his married lover. How often does that happen.??!  Just the idea of bringing these two face to face, made me cringe, A bold move by Ennis I think.What was he thinking?  Most men would try to put as much distance as possible between the"other woman" (or man ) in this case and the wife. Why have them meet?

I kept waiting for her to lose it and scratch someone's eyes out after what she'd seen. I remember the first time seeing the movie and saying OMIGOD!!! out loud at the screen . Seeing her witness the kiss made my jaw drop to the floor.And the "you may be married to him, but he,s mine tonight" look that Jack gives Alma as he,s leaving is priceless.

[CrimsonSky]

Perhaps "uncomfortable " is a better word for the expressionJack was giving, but every since I saw this the first time I've wondered what was going through his mind, actually getting to meet the wife of his married lover. How often does that happen.??!  Just the idea of bringing these two face to face, made me cringe, A bold move by Ennis I think.What was he thinking?  Most men would try to put as much distance as possible between the"other woman" (or man ) in this case and the wife. Why have them meet?

I kept waiting for her to lose it and scratch someone's eyes out after what she'd seen. I remember the first time seeing the movie and saying OMIGOD!!! out loud at the screen . Seeing her witness the kiss made my jaw drop to the floor.And the "you may be married to him, but he,s mine tonight" look that Jack gives Alma as he,s leaving is priceless.

That look just says it all, doesn't it? Jack Nasty!!!


Of course, if it was anyone else but Jack, or if it had been a woman instead of a man,I would have been screaming at Alma to give him a slap,but this movie just doesn't work like that I don't think Ennis had a choice about introducing them, after all, Jack was just an old fishing buddy as far as Alma was concerned so it would've looked strange if he hadn't, and also Jack had only been back in Ennis's life for all of five minutes, so I don't think he'd had time to think of it in terms of keeping his wife and lover apart, unlike the morning after, when he leaves Jack waiting outside while he rushes in and out to get his stuff. I agree with what others have said, after that kiss, I don't think Jack would've noticed if Alma had two heads, all he wanted to do was get to the motel asap for that "later..." Ennis had promised him
 Having said that, Jack does seem to me to at least make an effort to be polite,he tries to make eye contact a couple of times, but Alma's reaction to him isn't exactly welcoming, for obvious reasons, but of course Jack doesn't know that. The way he says "pleased to meet you ma'am" comes across as so sarcastic, cause she's made it perfectly clear that she's not at all pleased to meet Jack,but he probably just thinks it's because she's looking down her nose at him, or that she's just over- possesive of Ennis, and that's what makes him take a dislike to her, which is then added to by Ennis using his life with her and the girls as the reason why they can't be together. The "you and Alma, that's a life?" comment I think Jack meant that Ennis couldn't possibly feel for Alma what he felt for Jack, and Alma would never be able to make Ennis feel like Jack made him feel,the sheer power of the reuinion kiss showed how much repressed passion Ennis had been holding inside him for four years, after releasing it and rediscovering it like that, how could Ennis be prepared to lose it again and go back to settling for second best with Alma?       

[greenfrog]

That look just says it all, doesn't it? Jack Nasty!!!

MINE !!!!!

[Patriot1]

I just love Jack and his tongue action.  So cute.

[carbyville]

That look just says it all, doesn't it? Jack Nasty!!!

MINE !!!!!

 

What a look!

I agree with what has already been said. Jack was doing his best to be cordial and polite but ultimately had no interest in anything more than Hello/Goodbye and if you notice the small talk he did make it was actually made with Ennis. The only thing he directed at Alma was "smiles a lot" in regards to Bobby.

"You and Alma, that's a life?" again, I agree with what has already been said. Jack knows how Ennis feels about him and after Ennis refered to his marriage as "stuck", he knows Ennis is not happy in the current situation, same as Jack. Jack wants out but Ennis is perfectly content being miserable. Jack's offer was his hopes for them to both be happy.

-Kristin

[aintfoolin]

Thanks for all the wonderful comments, and I agree that Jack just wanted to distance himself from her as soon as possible, IMO Jack would'nt have givivn a  good goddamn if Alma was the first lady, he was gettin Ennis alone to himself that night for reasons we all know and understand. I guess he was able to seperate the two relationships in  his mind and came to the conclusion that Alma is just some one who stood between he and Ennis, An object really who stood between he and Enni's  life together.  It was she who stood between  them before at Aguirre's trailer right after they came down from Brokeback, being engaged to Ennis and Ennis's insistance on marrying her. Jack knew then that whom ever she was, she was going to be the obstacle .  It was because of her that he had to bow out of his man's life for  four long years.  In his heart, he knew he loved Ennis more.......And that Ennis loved him more too. My heart went out to him when he drove away in that truck.

[tpe]

When Jack was telling Ennis and Alma about Lureen and his son, there was a look of disbelief in Alma's face.  Did Jack see this?  Or was his head bowed down?  Was he looking at Ennis?  Or did he just not care?

[welshwitch]

I don;t know whether it was deliberate on Jack's part, but I thought he made a point of mentioning his wife and son. The "married the prettiest gal in Childress" comment seems a bit crass when clearly the girl Ennis married is not the prettiest little gal even in Riverton  - is he boasting? Or is he just establishing that he's a normal male - old buddy, been busy finding a wife, getting married, fathering a son - in order not to arouse suspicion? If the latter, how ironic that it's wasted effort - Alma's seen the kiss - she knows this is no ordinary friendship.

[aintfoolin]

I think your right Welshwitch,I guess he felt he had to create this scenario for Alma that he was just an old freind and nothing more.Un fortunately Alma had aready seen the kiss and had formed  her own conclusions. I've always felt at this very point Alma held all the cards. But for many reasons of her own, she chose not to play them at this time. Being from a culture that women were taught to keep their mouths shut and the men wore the pants in the family,She couln't fix it so she stood it which is Enni's philosophy.Even though I Want Ennis and Jack together I see Alma as a victim. Ennis should neverhave married her.

[jpwagoneer1964]

I think Ennis was real proud that Jack had a son. He was beaming in response.

[LuvJackNasty]

Not too much to add since it has all been said so well. I really don't know how Jack managed to recover from that kiss to make it up the stairs- it took me a while to recover the first time seeing it. I think he just wanted to get it over with- his mind was probably racing in so many directions- "I can't believe he just layed that kiss on me" "I want what's coming next" "What the hell am I supposed to her" etc. I think his comment about Lureen and Bobby was him just trying to make conversation. As for whether or not Jack cared about the look on Alma's face (if he even noticed it) I don't think he did. He was heartbroken after leaving BBM, stuck with the horrid Newsome's, took a chance and reached out to Ennis who answered him in a way that was probably beyond his expectations. He was finally breathing and alive again and I don't think much else mattered to him right then and there.

 

The "You and Alma, that's a life?" comment seems to show contempt for Alma, or at least for the life Ennis leads with her, but I think that's less of Alma herself than for the fact of her existence, this small-town girl and her two children who are keeping Ennis away from him, or so it must seem to Jack at this point. It's not till later, when she's gone, that he realizes that's not true.

And anyway he knows Ennis and his "I'll stick to beans" attitude - Ennis would hardly be likely to marry a beauty queen or a socialite.

I agree with what has already been said. Jack was doing his best to be cordial and polite but ultimately had no interest in anything more than Hello/Goodbye and if you notice the small talk he did make it was actually made with Ennis. The only thing he directed at Alma was "smiles a lot" in regards to Bobby.

"You and Alma, that's a life?" again, I agree with what has already been said. Jack knows how Ennis feels about him and after Ennis refered to his marriage as "stuck", he knows Ennis is not happy in the current situation, same as Jack. Jack wants out but Ennis is perfectly content being miserable. Jack's offer was his hopes for them to both be happy.

-Kristin

Well said re: "You and Alma that's a life?" Jack knows how unhappy he is in his own situation and after that kiss Ennis planted on him he knows that the married, straight life facade is not agreeing with Ennis. I don't know if it was contempt for Alma necessarily but contempt for the fact that Ennis was going to continue to live his "life" in Riverton. Ennis had said "Making a living's about all I got time for" He's making a living not a life.

[welshwitch]

Making a living as opposed to building a life is an evasion of reality on Ennis's part - whether or not Jack knows it, he certainly feels it intuirively. His first sight of Alma and ennis with her must have told him something about their relationship.

[aintfoolin]

I'm wondering why Jack chose not to return to the apartment  with Ennis instead stayed outside, while Ennis packed for the trip to the mountains the next morning. Must've got some bad vibes from Alma. huh? Texans DO drink coffee, it's just that this one  did'nt want to drink it with her for some reason . IMO he was either being respectfully discreet, or could'nt face her agan after screwing her husband's brains out the night before. What's up with that? Does the SS deal with this? I read it but it's been awhile. I can't believe Alma actually wanted Jack in for coffee and pleasant conversation  did she?Ennis cracked me up with his " he's from Texas" comment.they did go to a resturant,where I'm sure they had coffee.

[NoReins]

In the SS, there was no return to Ennis's appartment - Jack persuaded him to call Alma from the motel and they went up into the mountains from there.

I think Jack opted to stay outside this time because he had felt so awkward before and that was after "just" a kiss (but what a kiss!) After spending the night with Ennis I think he probably thought that if they went up into the appartment together it would be impossible to hide the "we've spent the whole night f***ing each others brains out and now we're going off to the mountains to do it for a whole three days" look on his face and the very obvious electricity between them.

[welshwitch]

Almost impossible to switch from one role ( lover) to another ( old friend) in front of the very person you need to hide the truth from - no way at this point could either of them behaved normally in front of Alma. Ennis doesn;t do a very good job of it even on his own.

BTW, there's a bit of a problem in the ss too. Ennis leaves his apartment with Jack to go out drinking and says they may stay out all night. Next morning Jack persuades him to call Alma from the motel and say he's going "up in the mountains" with him. He adds that Ennis should throw his stuff into the back of the pickup- so Ennis doesn't go home, but has his things with him. How? He'd hardly have left the apartment with all the things for a few days away...The movie solves that problem but leaves the awkwardness of Jack not wanting to come in and face Alma.

[aintfoolin]

O.K. now I remember. Jack persuaded Ennis to call Alma for  a few more days of....well....getting  re-aquainted .But in the movie Alma did'nt act like they had any previous conversation, with Ennis hurriedly explaining that he and Jack were going up to the mountains for a couple of days to "do a little fishin". She looked caught off guard to me and in desparation started doing and saying anything she could to keep Ennis at home while Jack calmy waited for her husband right outside her front door. . This seemed to really rile her up at Jack as if she knew he was taking Ennis away from her, and did'nt give a damn, especially when   she ran to the window, looked down to see Jack was still there. waitig to wisk him away from her AGAIN . She knew at that point that Jack was a force to be reckoned  with. that he was'nt just gonna step aside again and every thing would go back to normal for her. She had seen too much.  They were  rivals to each other with Ennis being the target of both.I bet it was one very long night for her.Her contempt for Jack was obvious still years later at Thanksgiving.

It's ironic that in the end neither one could get Ennis to totally commit to a stable life and everybody lost out, especially Ennis , He lost his true love forever.

[carbyville]

I'm wondering why Jack chose not to return to the apartment  with Ennis instead stayed outside, while Ennis packed for the trip to the mountains the next morning. Must've got some bad vibes from Alma. huh? Texans DO drink coffee, it's just that this one  did'nt want to drink it with her for some reason . IMO he was either being respectfully discreet, or could'nt face her agan after screwing her husband's brains out the night before. What's up with that? Does the SS deal with this? I read it but it's been awhile. I can't believe Alma actually wanted Jack in for coffee and pleasant conversation  did she?Ennis cracked me up with his " he's from Texas" comment.they did go to a resturant,where I'm sure they had coffee.

I don't think it was so much that Alma wanted Jack to come up for coffee and coversation, I think she just felt she had a right to question Ennis on why Jack had not come up to socialize and to have a sound,  justified reason to disapprove of Ennis going on his trips, all while inadvertantly being part of the facade by never "diming Ennis out" while they were still married.

At this point in the movie, Jack is a "predator" by Alma's standpoint. I say predator because look at the way Jack is standing/leaning on his truck when she goes and looks at him out the window. From the first time I saw this scene I thought Jack resembled an animal that was about to attack it's prey and generally wreck havoc on the calmness of the other animals (Ennis and Alma's marriage/family in this case)

If Alma had that opinion of Jack, her mentioning him coming up for coffee is either her way of giving her another reason not to like him and/or interrogate Jack if he had come up. I really don't see Alma being the type to interrogate a man she just met, but when you're upset and shocked, one can never know.

[jeffjoe]

I don't know but in the reunion scene Alma and Jack saw one each other as rivals, she is the reason because he could't be together with Ennis and he come to break up her life, the Alma feelings are obvious and we can seeing why, but Jacks feelings are a mistery because he don't know her until that moment, we only can assume he look her as his rival but i don't believe he feel scorn for her, is just like you say before he tray to say with his charming eyes "HE IS MINE, NOT YOUR, NEVER WAS IT AND NEVER WILL BE"
When he say That's a life maybe he's just looking for a reason to make Ennis believe that was just an appearance Ennis marriage was just a dream, is not real and maybe they could be a good life together, well is just my opinion

[aintfoolin]

I agree with your comment Carbyville, She was trying to force Ennis to justify going away with Jack again so soon. right? Well Ennis was'nt about to volunteer any free information about him and Jack's affair. but I agree that she did have the right to ask.  She was also being sarcastic about it  i believe with the "Texans don't drink coffe " remark. I also agreed  with you that Jack took on a more "predatory"  stance toward the whole thing that morning. He was a little more brazen with his approach to the situation, coming back to their house as if daring Alma .   Maybe he did'nt come up for coffee or come face to face with her again, but he made sure Alma got the message and that was HE"S GOING WITH ME. and nothing  you do can stop it. I also bet that the night before Jack had made sure to try and make Ennis forget about Alma .....forever. 

 JeffJoe, your right about them being rivals at that point in the kitchen and on into the next morning. A slient rivalry  going on between them. Athough I understand where Alma's up bringing did not prepare her to strongly deal with this complicated situation, I kept wanting her to, just to lay everything out on the line. to let Jack know that she deserved some respect  Jack wating downstairs alone  while Ennis was packing  was the time. But it's only a movie tellin a story eh?. It  was the perfect opportunity for her to approach her rival. She just could'nt bring herself to do it. I wonder if Jack took Alma's timidity for weakness? She could'nt stop him from leaving, I guess Jack's love had more meaning for Ennis.His goodbye kiss for her seemed more like a cold after thought. I'm rambling now .

Ennis is definitly NOT off the hook either.  My 2 cents is all.     

[welshwitch]

Ennis is caught between the two of them - going off after the reunion and up to the mountains is where we see the strength of Jack's hold on Ennis - after this Jack never apparently intrudes into their life again and Ennis compartmentalizes his fishing trips. Here it's evident from the contrast in the passionate reunion kiss and the perfunctory one Ennis gives Alma before he goes that it's the physical bond between him and Jack which is the stronger, though most of the time Ennis's fears and regard for outward apearances don't let him respond to it.

[lamusica]

I think Jack is showing us more than we see at first glance.  I believe, when he makes his remark about Ennis' life with Alma, he is really reflecting his perception of his own life with Lureen.  He could have said,  "Lureen and me?  That's a life?"  He's not happy in his marriage and assumes Ennis is likewise unhappy.  Just IMO.

[welshwitch]

He certainly isn't happy - look at the later comment that they could do it on the telephone. I think that in a way he hopes Ennis's marriage is no more fulfilling than his own - he's seen Alma and evidently isn't impressed either, so maybe he thinks she isn;t much competition. then he knows what Ennis's life muct be like in a small town and doing the sort of jobs he does - it all adds up to a not-very-attractive package, so perhaps he hopes it won't be enough to hold Ennis back from committing to him.

[aintfoolin]

All you said is true WW, Jack married up, so he got a taste of the "good life" whereas Ennis continued to take temporary ranch jobs that probably did'ni pay much.  I believe Jack did want a better life for Ennis,one he'd never have with Alma. Because he loved Ennis, and knew that Ennis 's dream one day was to own his own spread, and it was his own dream too. ), It would have been the ideal partnership for them both. I think Jack beleived that when you love someone, you want to see them succeed at something. This cow and calf operation would have allowed Ennis to do what he knows and does best. He knows ranching and he's good at it therefore it would have been a successful venture. Jack knew this.He also knew that Ennis was unhappy in his current "stuck mode" from the conversation in the motel room. It must've been frustrating for Jack not to be able get Ennis to see that it was at least worth a shot. Ennie's tireiron childhood nightmare, in reality was a bigger obstacle to overcome to Jack than Alma.  That and the fact that he could'nt completely pull the covers off his true feelings for Jack , and expose himself to the rest of the world. The shame was ingrained into him by his father and that's a shame.

[NoReins]

It's more than a shame, aintfoolin, it's a tragedy. You're spot on in everything you say - if only Ennis could have seen it.

[tpe]

I don;t know whether it was deliberate on Jack's part, but I thought he made a point of mentioning his wife and son. The "married the prettiest gal in Childress" comment seems a bit crass when clearly the girl Ennis married is not the prettiest little gal even in Riverton  - is he boasting? Or is he just establishing that he's a normal male - old buddy, been busy finding a wife, getting married, fathering a son - in order not to arouse suspicion? If the latter, how ironic that it's wasted effort - Alma's seen the kiss - she knows this is no ordinary friendship.

I had thought that he had boasted about Lureen and his son partly to cover up his relationship with Ennis.  I certainly think he would have acted differently had he realized that Alma just saw him and Ennis kissing...