Author Topic: The next morning, What were they thinking? (Read 53310 times)

aintfoolin · « **on:** Nov 26, 2006, 02:46 PM »

I found this older thread dated back to Jan/16/o6 but I thought it was worth rehashing. Besides , my laptop crapped out on me around that time. But the events following FNIT left me with a lot of questions. I guess I just love getting inside their heads and try picking their brains apart! Now Ennis rides off as if the demons of hell are after him and finds the dead sheep, but what baffles me is when Jack appears all of a sudden up in the hills where the sheep and Ennis are.When ? how? why? and what's behind this ? My take on it is that Jack wanted to know if Ennis was still "with him" after what had just transpired between them? He had a lot of nerve to go up there in search of answers from Ennis.

What was he thinking?

welshwitch · « **Reply #1 on:** Nov 26, 2006, 05:06 PM »

I wondered if he thought that ennis might stay up with the sheep all night - he had the pup-tent to sleep in - and couldn't bear waiting to see if he showed up in their camp.Ennis had ridden away looking pretty grim that morning - he made no response to Jack's overtures so Jack may have worried that Ennis was full of regret, or even too embarrassed to face him - when he caught up with Ennis up on the mountain it was obvious that neither quite know how to behave.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #2 on:** Nov 26, 2006, 06:28 PM »

Poor Jack. He must have felt like crap after bein dissed like this. Not a word from Ennis. Just that....that...look. I can't even find the words to describe it. He only wanted to distance himself from Jack ASAP.I;m glad that Jack did'nt try to excuse the whole thing as some kind of dreadful mistake on his part to appease Ennis. The man had courage.

greenfrog · « **Reply #3 on:** Nov 26, 2006, 10:10 PM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Nov 26, 2006, 06:28 PM

Poor Jack. He must have felt like crap after bein dissed like this. Not a word from Ennis. Just that....that...look. I can't even find the words to describe it. He only wanted to distance himself from Jack ASAP.I;m glad that Jack did'nt try to excuse the whole thing as some kind of dreadful mistake on his part to appease Ennis. The man had courage.

I think that as hurt as Jack was, he could see that Ennis was clearly a bit shaken after what had happened the night before.

The expression on his face says it all.

tpe · « **Reply #4 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 09:40 AM »

I think both of them were pretty shaky the next day. But Jack certainly could not read Ennis that morning when he left, and wanted to assure himself on where things stood between them. Others would have been more reluctant to stage a confrontation so soon after. BUt with the two of them alone together, they really had no choice.

Audrey twist · « **Reply #5 on:** Nov 27, 2006, 04:25 PM »

Ennis is scared because he knows hom much desires Jack and that he will never let him go for the same reason!

aintfoolin · « **Reply #6 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 10:59 AM »

I loved the quiet way that Jack allowed Ennis to express his feelings first once he got up there. And his "nobody's business" comment assured Ennis that he would'nt judge him. This I beleive played a part in Ennis finding the courage to partake in SNIT.

lamusica · « **Reply #7 on:** Nov 28, 2006, 07:03 PM »

I agree, aintfollin. When Jack said it was nobody's business but theirs, that freed Ennis. Otherwise, without those words, I don't know if Ennis would have come to the tent that night. He would have been too ashamed and scared. Jack released him of the fear of others finding out about them. I love this scene.

greenfrog · « **Reply #8 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 02:39 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Nov 28, 2006, 10:59 AM

I loved the quiet way that Jack allowed Ennis to express his feelings first once he got up there. And his "nobody's business" comment assured Ennis that he would'nt judge him. This I beleive played a part in Ennis finding the courage to partake in SNIT.

Agreed

Ennis need assurance that there was nothing wrong with what they had done the night before, and that nobody else had to know about it.

tpe · « **Reply #9 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 09:15 AM »

Yes, I loved how Jack just stayed silent and gave Ennis a chance to breathe and express himself. I think Jack's presence was good. I assume that he went up to specifically be with Ennis, but having made this gesture, remained silent -- respecting Ennis's need to express himself in his own good time. I noted that it was Ennis who approached where Jack was sitting. I suppose Jack didn't want to be overtly intrusive, ot force the issue by confronting Ennis when he reached the place where the sheep were pastured.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #10 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 04:17 PM »

You're right, it was Ennis who approaced Jack. He obviously felt that Jack deserved some expaination for his behavior that morning. He must have also felt that he was dealing with someone who was'nt easily intimidated but who really cared enough and was courageous enough to want to be near him and get some answers.I think it was one of the qualities that he admired in Jack among many. It was probably what attracted Ennis to Jack. Jack possessed alot of qualities that Ennis wished he had in himself. In this mindset Ennis was able to inch his way slowly into accepting his feelings about Jack. Although he was caught off guard Jack showed him that he did'nt have to feel ashamed of anything that happened thus propelling Ennis to take the courageous steps into SNIT.

AnitaSmith · « **Reply #11 on:** Nov 29, 2006, 06:45 PM »

I believe that Ennis was hit with love for Jack like a freight train and it startled him. Their second love scene was so sweet and tender. It sealed the eternal bond between them. Even later in the film, Ennis stated that "there's no reins on this." His love for Jack was a powerful force. And that is one of the things that makes "Brokeback Mountain" so heartwrenching for me. I do not know how Ennis denied himself the "sweet life" he could have had with Jack. And, yes, when Jack mentions that sweet life, it always brings me to tears. And I do not know how Ennis managed to live after Jack was gone. Could Ennis have wondered that Jack could have still been alive had they decided to make a life together? How does any human being "stand it?" :\'( Frankly, were I Ennis, I would have seriously considered taking my own life.

tpe · « **Reply #12 on:** Nov 30, 2006, 10:50 AM »

Ennis didn't have to ask Jack why we was away from camp. He perfectly understood why Jack was there: Jack needed reassurance and a gesture from Ennis on how things stood between them. It was very brave of Jack to go up to be with Ennis at that moment, and I think Ennis approached Jack because he appreciated the initiative. They came to an understamding there and then. Much of waht traspired was left unsaid and ill-defined. That suited Ennis, and if it suited Ennis, it suited Jack. It did indeed pave the way for the SNIT. It was the ratification of the "contract" made in that quiet confrontation.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #13 on:** Nov 30, 2006, 05:02 PM »

I like the way you say this tpe. I totally agree about the silent "contract" between them. Even though at this point they are still feeling their way , it's understood that there's unpoken feelings there.
Then Ennis stating that he "aint queer" Immediately clues Jack in on what Ennis's fear is: That even though they have something " going on" he does want Jack to think of him as "queer" and whatever that means in Ennis's mind. Jack chimes in with" me neither" This sort of confused me though. I guess he said it to make Ennis more comfortable ? What's up with that? I wish this convers was a little longer. Wonder if they returned to camp together? Sigh...... so many unanswered questions.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #14 on:** Nov 30, 2006, 05:06 PM »

Sorry, I meant to say that Ennis DID'NT want Jack to think of him as gay. My mistake.

greenfrog · « **Reply #15 on:** Dec 01, 2006, 12:44 AM »

Quote from: AnitaSmith on Nov 29, 2006, 06:45 PM

I believe that Ennis was hit with love for Jack like a freight train and it startled him. Their second love scene was so sweet and tender. It sealed the eternal bond between them. Even later in the film, Ennis stated that "there's no reins on this." His love for Jack was a powerful force. And that is one of the things that makes "Brokeback Mountain" so heartwrenching for me. I do not know how Ennis denied himself the "sweet life" he could have had with Jack. And, yes, when Jack mentions that sweet life, it always brings me to tears. And I do not know how Ennis managed to live after Jack was gone. Could Ennis have wondered that Jack could have still been alive had they decided to make a life together? How does any human being "stand it?" :\'( Frankly, were I Ennis, I would have seriously considered taking my own life.

I think I need to go tissue hunting again after reading this. :\'( :\'( :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #16 on:** Dec 01, 2006, 10:02 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Nov 30, 2006, 05:02 PM

I like the way you say this tpe. I totally agree about the silent "contract" between them. Even though at this point they are still feeling their way , it's understood that there's unpoken feelings there.
Then Ennis stating that he "aint queer" Immediately clues Jack in on what Ennis's fear is: That even though they have something " going on" he does want Jack to think of him as "queer" and whatever that means in Ennis's mind. Jack chimes in with" me neither" This sort of confused me though. I guess he said it to make Ennis more comfortable ? What's up with that? I wish this convers was a little longer. Wonder if they returned to camp together? Sigh...... so many unanswered questions.

I also thought that Jack said "Me neither" to make Ennis more comfortable. I suspect though that had the conversation been longer, things would have unraveled and that might have said things that may make them have second thoughts. In real life, we let many uncomfortable things remain quite undefined/ambiguous, because we are afraid that if we try to define them a bit better, we would be too scared.

welshwitch · « **Reply #17 on:** Dec 01, 2006, 11:43 AM »

This is the first day of a new life for both of them - a vertiginous prospect for Ennis at least, and perhaps not one easily put into words but better left unexplored for the moment.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #18 on:** Dec 02, 2006, 09:19 PM »

I see your point . Some moments are better left alone.Ennis was probably feeling so many things at this point l We now know what was meant by the "one shot" comment, that they did have someting " going on" ....something he liked. Alot. I love and admire Jack's patience in this instance and all through this affair. His ability to *sort Ennis out* and still maintain such wonderful patience is short of miraculous.This comment could have been taken in more than one way.But Jack waited.

Brokeback_1 · « **Reply #19 on:** Dec 03, 2006, 03:17 AM »

Well I was brought up in Brooklyn and always thought it was really sweet of Ennis not to blow Jack's head off the next morning. As in really really sweet. He even had the rifle, but when he put it in the saddle holster you knew it would be allright. If jack had screwed ENNIS it might have been a different story.

There were very few if any things which made teenaged buds want to kill each other more then getting completely blasted & humping each other blind when I grew up. So it really was nice of Ennis not to kill Jack, when he had the weapon at hand.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #20 on:** Dec 04, 2006, 05:51 AM »

Yeah, when I first saw this scene the possiblility crossed my mind too. He also had the rifle when he came upon Jack up by the sheep. I cringed , but we know now that it was the last thing on Ennis's mind. At that point he would have killed FOR Jack instead!

Twisted · « **Reply #21 on:** Dec 04, 2006, 07:58 AM »

Ennis would have never killed Jack, even after FNIT, even if the riffle was shoving there. He had feelings for Jack earlier, and he probably knew that it was gonna happen sooner or later, it was just matter of time. IMO.

tpe · « **Reply #22 on:** Dec 04, 2006, 09:03 AM »

Quote from: Brokeback_1 on Dec 03, 2006, 03:17 AM

Well I was brought up in Brooklyn and always thought it was really sweet of Ennis not to blow Jack's head off the next morning. As in really really sweet. He even had the rifle, but when he put it in the saddle holster you knew it would be allright. If jack had screwed ENNIS it might have been a different story.

There were very few if any things which made teenaged buds want to kill each other more then getting completely blasted & humping each other blind when I grew up. So it really was nice of Ennis not to kill Jack, when he had the weapon at hand.

Yes, when Ennis handled the rifle, I was thinking as to whether he would do something foolish. This was probably intentional -- to heighten the viewer's tension.

I don't think that Ennis would have harmed Jack at that point. After all, he wasn't forced to do what he did in FNIT.

welshwitch · « **Reply #23 on:** Dec 04, 2006, 11:15 AM »

I'm quite glad I don;t live in Brooklyn really - if people go round blowing one another's heads off!

Actually when Ennis shoved the gun down into the holder( or whatever it's called) I just thought it was a symbolic replay of his actions the night before - but that's what you get for seeing symbols, often the wrong sort, all over the place.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #24 on:** Dec 04, 2006, 02:38 PM »

I think Jack knew he could'nt afford to show Ennis any fear or guilt after FNIT but he had to feel a whirlwind of emotions. especially after Ennis appearred at first to be trying to run a little "guilt trip" on Jack befor hightailing it up to the sheep. He handled the whole situation with dignity and grace IMO. His casual "see you for supper" comment tells me that he wanted to make Ennis feel that everything was alright between them...Still.

tpe · « **Reply #25 on:** Dec 05, 2006, 10:57 AM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Dec 04, 2006, 11:15 AM

Actually when Ennis shoved the gun down into the holder( or whatever it's called) I just thought it was a symbolic replay of his actions the night before - but that's what you get for seeing symbols, often the wrong sort, all over the place.

What an interesting thought!

Brokeback_1 · « **Reply #26 on:** Dec 06, 2006, 12:25 AM »

You aren't wrong at all, the film is PACKED with symbols and the one you just described was meant to do just that---as well as 2 other things.

any guesses as to what the other 2 are?? lol

aintfoolin · « **Reply #27 on:** Dec 06, 2006, 07:28 AM »

Yeah, Hunger and an excellent dessert!

Brokeback_1 · « **Reply #28 on:** Dec 06, 2006, 05:51 PM »

lmaooooo

aintfoolin · « **Reply #29 on:** Dec 07, 2006, 08:44 AM »

I thought that they just fell over and went back to sleep at first but then I nticed that Jack was wearing his coat again the next morning so I take it that Jack got up some time during the night. Also It baffles me that the way Ennis is looking at Jack while he was still sleeping, it appears that Jack may be still nude from the waist down.Am I wrong? or maybe they did it more than once? Why else would Jack still be half nude but wearing his coat?

$:-\\$

Author Topic: The next morning, What were they thinking? (Read 53310 times)

greenfrog

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