Topic: Alcohol and the boys.

[aintfoolin]

I like to take a nip every so often but there are several scenes where Jack and Ennis go through bottles. Did they have a problem? Did Jack really dream of" whiskey springs"? As far as I can tell Aguirre supplied the booze. Great boss,  or enabler?

[Rønnaug]

I think this was how it was in those times, to manage to do these kindas of jobs they drank, and the bosses knew that. Unfortunatly that much dinking in young years, and coupled with miserable lives, led to excess drinking the rest of the time. And htey did have miserable lives when they weren't together so drinking became an escape I guess

[tpe]

And I do also think they needed the whiskey to stay warm.  It was probably the main justification for supplying them with this type of strong drink, no?

 

[Rønnaug]

Yes, whiskey will keep u warm until it "wears out" then u'll freeze... like Ennis in FNIT

[tpe]

Thank God ithe fire died and the warm of the whiskey wore off.   But then again, Jack knew what he was doing... 

[Rønnaug]

That is my guess too tpe lol

But I think this was the way it was done to make sure the hired hands staeyed on the job, and mayby to get them to come back the next year, my guess is it might still be like this

[tpe]

True.  Aguirre could probably cut their bean or spud rations with impunity.  But I don't think the hired hands would have tolerated a cut in the whiskey supply. It was their main source of diversion -- after the sceneery, perhaps. 

[welshwitch]

Also has its uses if you cut yourself - can be used to clean up a wound as Jack did with Ennis's face.They were hardly going to carry a first-aid kit up there.

And of course beer is wonderful for rinsing your hair - gives it body and bounce - but maybe they weren't thinking of that.

[jackster]

I think Jack definitely did have a "problem". Lureen even says so - "He drank a lot". First thing he and Ennis did was to go to a bar, Jack's idea. Just thinking about all the scenes with Jack, there's a bottle in most of them. I've always intrepreted this as Jack's way of trying to avoid his sexual preference or confusion.

This brings to mind one of the most intriguing aspects of the Ledger's magnificent character interpretation, did you ever notice how after being thrown from the horse when Jack hands him the whiskey bottle he kinda' shakes it a little as if to mix up the contents then takes a swig? Then 20 years later when sitting 'round the (last) campfire with Jack and sharing the bottle of "Old Rose" whiskey he makes exactly the same small shaking gesture with the bottle. Don't know if this was intentional or just one of those things that Heath does, but it sure cemented the impression that this was the same guy, 20 years later. Pretty good, huh?

jackster

[tpe]

I think both were pretty good drinkers, although I think Jack had more experience, given Ennis's early methodist upbringing.

I think Jack's drinking problem is not really tied to an avoidance of his sexual preference and to any sexual confusion -- in fact, I think he seems to be pretty comfortable about it, especially when he is compared to Ennis.  IMO, the drinking problem has always been tied to his being unable to get Ennis to commit to a life together.  I also think that THAT was the context of Lureen's comment:     


"We herded sheep on Brokeback one summer,” said Ennis. He could hardly speak.

“Well, he said it was his place. I thought he meant to get drunk. Drink whiskey up there. He drank a lot.”

(Proulx -- Brokeback Mountain, 1997)


Of course, Brokeback Mountain for Jack was synonymous with Ennis.  Drink became the only way for Jack to survive the long stretches without Ennis.

There is a stark beauty in that tense exchange between Lureen and Ennis.  It was the point at which Lureen realizes who Ennis was.  Her comment about Jack drinking a lot hints at his unhappiness.  But we know that his request that his ashes be scattered on BBM did not mean that he wanted to get drunk. 

It meant that he wanted to be with Ennis forever.

[aintfoolin]

I agree with you . Jack's drinking had to do with his inability to snag Ennis into a commitment. I also noticed in a later scene Jack and Ennis smoked a joint of weed together. What's up with that?  The way Ennis flicked off the ash tells me that he's done this before. Just my opinion.

[tpe]

I think the pot smoking was simply to show them in the context of the 60s, 70s, and early 80s.  Like the drinking, it must have been a social thing between the two of them.  I suspect that Jack was the source, as I would have imagined tobacco to be cheaper then and Ennis did not seem to go for such luxuries.

[aintfoolin]

Jack+Ennis+whiskey+weed =one wild sexual encounter! I'm still dreamin folks. It's free ok? .

[Toadily]

Yeah I feel alcohol was a big plot devise but based on reality.  Jack was frustrated in his life ,and more confined than Ennis really (remember by end Ennis was at least living alone, Jack lived with Lureen) But also yeah in 60's 70's everyone drank and smoked even. 

[tpe]

Yeah I feel alcohol was a big plot devise but based on reality.  Jack was frustrated in his life ,and more confined than Ennis really (remember by end Ennis was at least living alone, Jack lived with Lureen) But also yeah in 60's 70's everyone drank and smoked even. 

So true.  Jack "needed" the alcohol more to forget. 

Ennis was given a way out by Alma since she petitioned for the divorce.  Jack must have felt trapped.  But why didn't he consider divorce outright long ago.  My suspicion is that he would not divorce so long as he didn't have Ennis to commit to a life together.  In the beginning, his marriage probably did not matter than much.  In the end, it must have rankled...

[Toadily]

Yes I think Jack needed the security more than Ennis.  Ennis accepts his lonliness easier.

[tpe]

Yes I think Jack needed the security more than Ennis.  Ennis accepts his lonliness easier.

That is another good point.  Ennis certainly put a stoic face to loneliness, something that Jack never could do, on account of his emotiveness. 

Is a prison a prison if that was the only world you ever knew?  This may be extreme, but I think it contains the essence of the argument.

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

I think both Ennis & Jack were heavy drinkers and smokers. That's just how they are.

[welshwitch]

I guess far more people smoked in the 60s and 70s than now -  even I smoked for a whole year when I had a boyfriend who bought cigarettes for me  - when I had to buy my own I stopped. I guess people in Jack's and Ennis's position drank too - how else would you get through the time on the mountain, specially when it was cold, wet and incomfortable? And teenagers, which is what they are at that point, often drink as a way of showing that they're adults. In Ennis's case, it could also have been a reaction against his upbringing, I guess; in Jack's I'd have thought he started on the rodeo circuit, to keep up with the others.

[tpe]

I think both Ennis & Jack were heavy drinkers and smokers. That's just how they are.

They certainly needed the alchohol to stay warm, and smoking was probably universal in the world they lived in.  "Heavy" is perhaps relative.  They probably drank and smoked in a manner typical of the rest...

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

They certainly needed the alchohol to stay warm, and smoking was probably universal in the world they lived in.  "Heavy" is perhaps relative.  They probably drank and smoked in a manner typical of the rest...

The myth that alcohol helps keep out cold is untrue. Alcohol in exreem cold is dangerous as it pushes blood form the core to the peripheral circulation, actually lowering body temperature.

The alcohol may have helped with the boredom of the job, or that was the theory anyway. hard workin' hard drinkin' cowboys. (although they sure found a way of keeping themselves amused!). The inhibition - the getting drunk together in the middle of nowhere, that was all part of the fun.

[tpe]

The myth that alcohol helps keep out cold is untrue. Alcohol in exreem cold is dangerous as it pushes blood form the core to the peripheral circulation, actually lowering body temperature.

How interesting.  I have always heard this as a convenient excuse.  I must admit that the few times I drank heavily (whiskey, I think) I did feel hot -- but more because I tend to flush and turn very red, I suppose (increased circulation?)?  I certainly don't know the exact body chemistry...

 

[aimi15]

How interesting.  I have always heard this as a convenient excuse.  I must admit that the few times I drank heavily (whiskey, I think) I did feel hot -- but more because I tend to flush and turn very red, I suppose (increased circulation?)?  I certainly don't know the exact body chemistry...

 

It is interesting. A little off topic, but i went to have a fairly radical piercing a while back, and was refused on the basis of having alcohol beforehand (to pluck up courage), i was told i would bleed more? Hmm, it is a fascinating thread though, i often wondered to myself just how much Jack and Ennis got through - it seemed to be a neverending supply. I guess up there there was nothing to do apart from work and drink - i agree with it being a perk to keep them in line.

Did we ever see Ennis show affection towards Jack without taking a drink beforehand? Did he need the alcohol to spur him on like a kind of crutch, or was he just a habitual drinker? Just thinking out loud...

[tpe]

Interesting question, bella muerte.  I think yes, there were instances where Ennis showed affection without alcohol -- the SNIT comes to mind.  Was he drinking then.  I assume they drank during the meal, but perhaps not heavily.  I would want to think that Ennis entered the tent without the aid of a lot of alcohol -- I think he wanted Jack in a state of full consciousness, and not like in the FNIT...

[aimi15]

Interesting question, bella muerte.  I think yes, there were instances where Ennis showed affection without alcohol -- the SNIT comes to mind.  Was he drinking then.  I assume they drank during the meal, but perhaps not heavily.  I would want to think that Ennis entered the tent without the aid of a lot of alcohol -- I think he wanted Jack in a state of full consciousness, and not like in the FNIT...

Yes, i think i agree with that tpe. He certainly wasn't roaring drunk like FNIT. The reunion scene he had consumed quite a bit of beer, but i think he was still in control of himself. And of course, after the reunion scene and the night in the motel, he made the decision to go up the mountain with Jack - and i don't believe he was under the influence by then. It is fascinating though. I think the alcohol became secondary to them both, they could have both blamed their actions on booze after the FNIT, but once the SNIT was done there definitely was no going back.

I really need to watch it again. I'm rambling...

[tpe]

bella muerte, I do think that alcohol gave Ennis courage to face his desires.  Yes.  In the Reunion scene, I do think the alcohol must have played a part in making him bold -- bold enough to kiss Jack out in the open (relatively speaking).  He had been drinking all day -- out of sheer boredom from waiting, no doubt.  Still, one can easily assume that all that alcohol must have indeed emboldened him when he did finally greet Jack.

Jack didn't seem to use alcohol as a means to embolden himself.  In the case of Jack, lcohol seemed to have been a vehicle to forget his problems and frustrations -- as well as for leisure, naturally.

[welshwitch]

The short story makes it clear that they'd been drinking whiskey before/during the time in the motel room, but I think that might have been Jack using the same technique on Ennis, who seems to have been a beer drinker - he drank bottles of beer up on themountain, according to the ss. That makes sense, too - it's presumably cheaper. Whiskey must get you drunk faster -since I rarely drink at all, this is speculation on my part, but if Jack regularly drank spirits, wouldn't he get habituated to them? So the same amount would have less effect on him than it would on Ennis.

and I know it's true that alcohol ultimately makes you colder, but I doubt those two had any sort of knowledge about its physiological effects - just went by the immediate ones.

[tpe]

The effect of warming must by psychosomatic, no? Probably finds its origin in the heat generated by alcohol as it courses down the throat and into the insides.

[welshwitch]

I thought it was physiological - some sort of effect of the metabolism of alcohol - may even have to go and look it up.

[tpe]

I thought it was physiological - some sort of effect of the metabolism of alcohol - may even have to go and look it up.

I can believe this.  To be sure, metabolism varies enormously from one person to the other...