Topic: "You want your son to grow up to be a man.....?"

[rabjr1]

What is going on here?  It is the Thanksgiving dinner at Jack's and Lureen's where see the scene with Lureen's father.  What is Lureen's father implying? about Jack? 

IN the scene where two ranchers make a caustic remark about Jack's rodeo days we see Lureen look up then down.  Is she ashamed about Jack?  Does he not measure up to her expectations?  He married her for a better life FOR HIM but it is not fulfilling for her.  The beginning of the end?

[tpe]

What is going on here?  It is the Thanksgiving dinner at Jack's and Lureen's where see the scene with Lureen's father.  What is Lureen's father implying? about Jack? 

IN the scene where two ranchers make a caustic remark about Jack's rodeo days we see Lureen look up then down.  Is she ashamed about Jack?  Does he not measure up to her expectations?  He married her for a better life FOR HIM but it is not fulfilling for her.  The beginning of the end?

In the scene where two men in Lureen's office make derogatory comments on Jack, the screenplay gives very precise directions: immediately after Lureen hears their remarks, she is said to have a look of disappointment and a feeling of being ashamed -- of Jack.  So you read it correctly.  Anne Hathaway acted this out very well, IMO.

And yes, the implication of Lureen's father is that Jack is not man enough.  This is why it was so important that he stand up to him in this particular scene...

[monicita]

I think you got that exactly right. Jack is seen as "not man enough" by people around him several times during the movie. And my heart bleeds for him every time.

Take a look at the scene with the rodeo cowboy earlier in the movie: Another scene of rejection, of subtle contempt. No wonder he thought he had to marry. The tragedy is that it doesn't really help either. In a society where being a man is equated with being rough, unfeeling and even kind of dumb (witness the father in law), Jack just doesn't fit in.

monicita

[tpe]

I think you got that exactly right. Jack is seen as "not man enough" by people around him several times during the movie. And my heart bleeds for him every time.

Take a look at the scene with the rodeo cowboy earlier in the movie: Another scene of rejection, of subtle contempt. No wonder he thought he had to marry. The tragedy is that it doesn't really help either. In a society where being a man is equated with being rough, unfeeling and even kind of dumb (witness the father in law), Jack just doesn't fit in.

monicita

monicita, when Lureen didn't even defend Jack to the two men making derogatory remarks, I was SO ANGRY.  The other time was when he was ignored by Jack's parents during the visit when the child was born.  Jack looked so much THE outsider... no wonder he decided to renew his contact with Ennis!

[Aela]

I think you got that exactly right. Jack is seen as "not man enough" by people around him several times during the movie. And my heart bleeds for him every time.

I think this is a direct result of Jack being pretty open and not careful about his behavior.  His hitting on the rodeo clown, for example, was quite blatant.  I assume this was just one incident, probably many more unshown.  Stuff like that has a way of getting around.  I have a feeling that there were plenty of rumours about Jack's sexuality going around Childress.  His Father-in-law probably heard some of them.

[rabjr1]

I think you got that exactly right. Jack is seen as "not man enough" by people around him several times during the movie. And my heart bleeds for him every time.

I think this is a direct result of Jack being pretty open and not careful about his behavior.  His hitting on the rodeo clown, for example, was quite blatant.  I assume this was just one incident, probably many more unshown.  Stuff like that has a way of getting around.  I have a feeling that there were plenty of rumours about Jack's sexuality going around Childress.  His Father-in-law probably heard some of them.

That sounds more and more like it.  Maybe not that Jack is open but that he is just himself and because he acts true to his nature ( even though he doesn't accept(?) that he is "queer" he cannot adjust his behavior it is his "skin", it is who and what he is.  His angst is that people seem to see him and reject him (rodeo clown) even if he is trying to just be friends.  There is so much homophobia around that even slightly "different" mannerisms are held suspect.  "You're not married?" everyone assumes there is something wrong with you .....and then they pry.....look for things....things they have no business knowing.

[kcristob]

IN the scene where two ranchers make a caustic remark about Jack's rodeo days we see Lureen look up then down.  Is she ashamed about Jack?  Does he not measure up to her expectations?  He married her for a better life FOR HIM but it is not fulfilling for her.  The beginning of the end?

This is a scene I'm starting to think about.  To me Lureen looks surprised initially at the mens comments, and then not so much ashamed as just making the decision to NOT defend her husband.  I guess it shows us who's team she's on.  Or at least who's team she isn't on.

[Toadily]

IN the scene where two ranchers make a caustic remark about Jack's rodeo days we see Lureen look up then down.  Is she ashamed about Jack?  Does he not measure up to her expectations?  He married her for a better life FOR HIM but it is not fulfilling for her.  The beginning of the end?

This is a scene I'm starting to think about.  To me Lureen looks surprised initially at the mens comments, and then not so much ashamed as just making the decision to NOT defend her husband.  I guess it shows us who's team she's on.  Or at least who's team she isn't on.

Yeah i think that's when its unraveling, I am sure at first he was more exciting for her, out of her circle and her conquest but then reality was setting in. 

[n061857]

b]monicita[/b], when Lureen didn't even defend Jack to the two men making derogatory remarks, I was SO ANGRY.  The other time was when he was ignored by Jack's parents during the visit when the child was born.  Jack looked so much THE outsider... no wonder he decided to renew his contact with Ennis!

You are right.  It really angered me, Lureen's lack of response in these two instances.  Actually I was a little surprised later when she seems to take so much pkeasure in Jack standing up to her dad.

[matsuki33]

What is going on here?  It is the Thanksgiving dinner at Jack's and Lureen's where see the scene with Lureen's father.  What is Lureen's father implying? about Jack? 

IN the scene where two ranchers make a caustic remark about Jack's rodeo days we see Lureen look up then down.  Is she ashamed about Jack?  Does he not measure up to her expectations?  He married her for a better life FOR HIM but it is not fulfilling for her.  The beginning of the end?

it is definitely clearly speaking about Jack! that old bast*rd hate Jack and he was never happy for Jack even though that his bussiness was in shape thanks to Jack selling power.

that man was implying that Jack was not a real man he always looked down when the old man was there and had not courage in front of him. he never confronted that old man.